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:: Saturday, November 21st, 2009Against the Wind
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Home Windmills vs. Industrial Wind Power Plants
01/19/06 · 9:33 am :: posted by Magical Eye
A Problem With Wind Power [www.aweo.org/windgrid.html]
by Eric RosenbloomThe biggest problem with large-scale wind-powered electricity generation is the grid. A home system can work well because the fluctuating output (even in the windiest places it is highly variable) can be regulated by batteries or flywheels, and another source (the grid or a gas-powered generator) is tied in to kick in when need be. This is the model where larger systems work in isolated villages, too.for the complete paper, including many links, click below
But industrial-scale wind plants designed to supply the grid do not work well, even where the wind is superb. The grid is meant to respond to demand, constantly modulating the various suppliers to match the demand exactly. Wind plants respond only to the wind, forcing the more controllable "conventional" plants to change their output in response to wind production as well as to grid demand. And the need to respond within seconds to a drop in wind production requires a plant that runs more inefficiently than one that could run if the grid didn't have to cope with the unpredictable fluctuations of significant wind-powered sources. That is to say, wind farms may actually cause more fossil fuel burning.
The huge turbines designed for the grid can't work without electricity from the grid, either. They produce on average 25%-35% of what they are capable of, but they are using electricity (apparently free) 100% of the time.
And a problem about sites with good steady strong winds is that they are too windy. The turbines can't handle strong gusts and automatically shut down (typically around 55 mph). So "good" sites turn out to be very little more productive than less windy ones.-- December 2004
"A Problem With Wind Power"
[www.aweo.org] tion, www.awea.org, Wind Energy Works!, www.windenergyworks.org If Not Wind, www.ifnotwind.org, British Wind Energy Association, www.bwea.com & www.bwea.org, & Embrace the Revolution (Embrace the Wind), www.embracewind.com opponents; National Wind Watch: industrial wind farm opposition; negative effects, impact, & aspects, environmental costs of wind energy, wind turbines, & wind towers; windfarm information; wind power facts, wind energy faq; windfarm debate; anti-wind, anti-windmill campaign; electricity, noise, birds, bats, blades, denmark, germany, uk, britain, california, vermont, efficiency, conservation, wind farm action groups; anti-wind campaigns]
135 comments
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Anonymous [Visitor] writes:
Magical,
Ad nauseum.
Once again don't let the facts get in the way. Just keep on throwing this stuff out there and something will stick.
Cape Wind will generate about 173mw of power, much below the level that will affect the grid as mentioned above.
Now of course you won't take any responsibility for the above article, but you have no problem searching the internet for whatever negative story associtated with wind power and cut and paste.
Who really is a the "snake oil salesman"? I think it's begining to look like you.
Ad nauseum.
Once again don't let the facts get in the way. Just keep on throwing this stuff out there and something will stick.
Cape Wind will generate about 173mw of power, much below the level that will affect the grid as mentioned above.
Now of course you won't take any responsibility for the above article, but you have no problem searching the internet for whatever negative story associtated with wind power and cut and paste.
Who really is a the "snake oil salesman"? I think it's begining to look like you.
Magical Eye [Member] writes:
Wll my dear Gordon has billions to gain... and I will not, personally, profit in any way no matter what the outcome. So by the very definition of snake oil I just don't fit the profile while Jim definitely does! My research results in some of the papers and articles I post on the web for others to see... I would like to remind you that your tour de force does this all of the time. No difference! And this is one way of bringing important papers and articles to the public's attention and exposing that there is another side to wind power. Like it or not. There is opposition out there and the oppositon has every right to be heard.
Magical Eye [Member] writes:
What are you talking about Anonymous? I have no control over whether your posts go through or not.
Anonymous [Visitor] writes:
sorry for the duplicate above, i was not seeing any of my posts. my bad
Anonymous [Visitor] writes:
Magical,
First, my "tour de force" is just my opinion, and my opinion alone.
For clarity, do you post information that may not be accurate to the Cape Wind debate?
I just want to be clear on this.
First, my "tour de force" is just my opinion, and my opinion alone.
For clarity, do you post information that may not be accurate to the Cape Wind debate?
I just want to be clear on this.
Anonymous [Visitor] writes:
And you may not be selling your snake oil for profit, but you sure seem to be dealing in it.
Magical Eye [Member] writes:
No way! Why would you even suggest that? I am selling nothing Anonymous just providing information for the public's review in order for them to make up their own minds.
Anonymous [Visitor] writes:
Are you suggesting the above article should be applied to Cape Wind? If so, it's not accurate. Please explain.
Magical Eye [Member] writes:
It is accurate to the post and sentiments expressed about them on these blogs. Windmills vs. Industrial Wind Power plants. Something to take into consideration when thinking about Cape Wind as just an extension of a personal benign wind mill. It is not!
Anonymous [Visitor] writes:
Introducing
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Guaranteed to cure your all your Wind Farm Ills
*Tired of hearing about the benefits of Cape Wind
*Noisy rotors keeping you up at night
*Looking to eliminate unsightly turbine blemishes
*Nightmares of wind power keeping you up at night
Magical Eye is your cure.
(No laboratory animals or raptors are used in testing)
MAGICAL EYE SNAKE OIL INFORMATION
Guaranteed to cure your all your Wind Farm Ills
*Tired of hearing about the benefits of Cape Wind
*Noisy rotors keeping you up at night
*Looking to eliminate unsightly turbine blemishes
*Nightmares of wind power keeping you up at night
Magical Eye is your cure.
(No laboratory animals or raptors are used in testing)
Magical Eye [Member] writes:
Anonymous, you wrote "First, my "tour de force" is just my opinion, and my opinion alone"
Aren't you the same person who admitted that you have been on the blogs less than a week and admit "these blogs are the only sources of my information and I only started really getting into it over the weekend." and furthermore you lied about who you were on another blog of mine and then proudly addmitted it?
Please do yourself a favor, research and learn. Rather than argue from ignorance of the issues just for the sake of arguing.
Aren't you the same person who admitted that you have been on the blogs less than a week and admit "these blogs are the only sources of my information and I only started really getting into it over the weekend." and furthermore you lied about who you were on another blog of mine and then proudly addmitted it?
Please do yourself a favor, research and learn. Rather than argue from ignorance of the issues just for the sake of arguing.
Magical Eye [Member] writes:
PS. Just so you know who you are arguing with... I have worked in the environmental field for over 25 years. Some of my researh has resulted in helping in the removal of two important toxins from our environment. this removal doesn't only help the birds it helps the people live in a safer and healthier place. Now, what is your background, might I ask? Just to see if we are on a level playing field.
Anonymous [Visitor] writes:
I am absolutley NOT the anonymous your refering to. I've been on this blog site for months.
And I can easily prove it. Not that I think I have to. And what's this about research and learn? How many Mega Watts need to be introduced into the grid before we have the problems your above article mentions.
Give us your factual information. You know, the "research and learn" that you've done.
Shame on you for accusing me of someone else with no proof. But, I guess that's the only thing your consistent with.
And I can easily prove it. Not that I think I have to. And what's this about research and learn? How many Mega Watts need to be introduced into the grid before we have the problems your above article mentions.
Give us your factual information. You know, the "research and learn" that you've done.
Shame on you for accusing me of someone else with no proof. But, I guess that's the only thing your consistent with.
Magical Eye [Member] writes:
Oh just so you know those toxins are Chlordane and Fenthion. The fenthion was featured in the National Geographic with a photograph of me releasing a recovered red-tailed hawk back into the wild. A hawk that was just one on a huge killing field of birds that could not be saved.
Anonymous [Visitor] writes:
What two toxins have you gotten rid of? So being a "brilliant" environmnetalist, can you tell me about how many Mega Watts will have an affect on the grid?
Magical Eye [Member] writes:
Thqt was not an accusation, Anonymous it was a question asked for clarification. And stop with the shame on you. Read Rosenbloom's paper.
Anonymous [Visitor] writes:
Terrific, Chlordane and Fenthion. And the relationship of the two to wind power is??????????
Magical Eye [Member] writes:
Never claimed to be brilliant, Anonymous a dedicated expert, yes. So what is your background?
Anonymous [Visitor] writes:
Just curious, do you have a degree in environmental science?
Are you a self-described environmentalist?
What are your qualifications?
Are you a self-described environmentalist?
What are your qualifications?
Anonymous [Visitor] writes:
I bought some organtic vegtables once. And I recycle my beer cans (not bottles) so I guess that makes me a practicing environmentalist.
Anonymous [Visitor] writes:
Back to the Mega Watt question, will Cape Wind have a negative effect on the grid system with 173 mega watts?
Magical Eye [Member] writes:
Myqualifications are having worked in the field for over twenty five years. I have received recognition and awards from everything from veterinary societies to environmental organizations. How about you Anonymous, I ask again. Or is it nice a cozy hiding safely behind your anonymity?
Magical Eye [Member] writes:
I leave the maga watt question to the experts... jsut as the experts in those areas leave the environmental questions to the environmental experts. READ the paper and follow the links! That is why it is posted.
Magical Eye [Member] writes:
I have to hand it to you on one thing though Anonymous... your comments and constant arguing certainly up the statistics of readership on my blog! Thank you.
Magical Eye [Member] writes:
I mean 26 already! nice!
Anonymous [Visitor] writes:
No, I sadly don't have any awards from environmnetal organizations. I guess even though I'm a Cape Cod resident and have been for over 30 years, I shouldn't have a say in this wind power debate.
I'm sorry I asked a person with your decorated environmental background such a simplistic question. I'm sure it's beneth you to even reply. Again, please accept my apologies, for I did not know of your lofty standing in the environmental community.
Please, let me retract the Mega Watt question. Don't anwser it. It's realy not that important to this blog.
I'm sorry I asked a person with your decorated environmental background such a simplistic question. I'm sure it's beneth you to even reply. Again, please accept my apologies, for I did not know of your lofty standing in the environmental community.
Please, let me retract the Mega Watt question. Don't anwser it. It's realy not that important to this blog.
Anonymous [Visitor] writes:
If I had a dollar for every one of "your" responses...I'd be richer than Jim Gordon.
13 of the 26 responses belong to you. I can't take all the credit.
13 of the 26 responses belong to you. I can't take all the credit.
Anonymous [Visitor] writes:
Hey Dona,
What gives, I plug Dona Tracy environmentalist into google and nothing comes up.
I'm doing my research as you suggested. Any thoughts?
What gives, I plug Dona Tracy environmentalist into google and nothing comes up.
I'm doing my research as you suggested. Any thoughts?
Magical Eye [Member] writes:
Anonymous, may I ask are your questions about mega watts a sincere desire for an answer?
Anonymous [Visitor] writes:
31 posts and now your asking me if my question is sincere. I read the article you posted, researched it and found that the amount of mega watts that Cape Wind is proposing is not significant to affect the operation of the grid.
A simple, honest, straight forward question, but in return I'm accused of being someone else and not qualified to ask the question. Becuase I'm not a decorated and recognized environmentalist.
And yet you still ask if my question is sincere? Why don't you go back and read the first comment to your blog.
A simple, honest, straight forward question, but in return I'm accused of being someone else and not qualified to ask the question. Becuase I'm not a decorated and recognized environmentalist.
And yet you still ask if my question is sincere? Why don't you go back and read the first comment to your blog.
Magical Eye [Member] writes:
I'll let others go back and read your questions and comments... If you are sincere in your desire for answers I can direct you to an expert in the field with decades of experience to call on.
Magical Eye [Member] writes:
PS. Anonymous if you would like to avoid, completely understandable, confusion as to just which Anonymous you are try adding a some numbers or a handle to it... just a suggestion.
Magical Eye [Member] writes:
One more suggestion Anonymous... if you really do desire a polite discourse on an issue maybe you might want to refrain from coming out swinging the next time.
Stephen Peckham [Visitor] writes:
Magical: Toxic waste of time to discuss intelligent issues relating to wind farms ANYWHERE.
capeguy [Visitor] writes:
Wind turbines do use electricity to excite the windings in the generator so yes they do use electricity. However all turbines must have a bidirectional electric meter. In other words when the turbines are using electricity the meter turns in one direction and when generating it turns the other way. In fact both electric directions are metered so all usage is logged. The power quality coming off a new turbine is much cleaner than what the grid supplies. The IEEE has strict guidelines on power quality and the turbines react to the exisiting grid to help balance the output. The turbines shut down after 55 mph...which happens how often?? not an issue. The cape wind project will produce about 35% capacity... what is overlooked is that cape wind would produce some electricty the majority of the time. So even on mild days a portion of cape cod demand would come from the windfarm.
It is estimated that 10% of the total grid demand could come from wind energy with little impact overall onto the grid. Wind can be forecasted so that the operator can predict reasonably what the output will be.
It is estimated that 10% of the total grid demand could come from wind energy with little impact overall onto the grid. Wind can be forecasted so that the operator can predict reasonably what the output will be.
Anonymous KMA [Visitor] writes:
Magical,
Enough said, you are such a phony. I gave myself a handle....figure it out.
Enough said, you are such a phony. I gave myself a handle....figure it out.
Barbara Durkin [Visitor] writes:
Thomas G. Donlon pointed out in his column in the May 16, 2005, issue of Barrons: It is shameful that GE, a highly profitable company, has decided to take advantage of faulty federal and state wind energy policies by producing turbines for "wind farms." As Thomas G. Donlon pointed out in his column in the May 16, 2005, issue of Barrons: "In addition to environmental damage..., wind power has an economic flaw that any GE engineer ought to be able to imagine: Since no human power can turn the wind on and off when it's wanted for electricity, every bit of wind power capacity must be backed up by another generating source...Immelt, an engineer, understands this but he provided the executive's counter argument: The customers want it, so it's GE's job to produce it." May 16, 2005, issue of Barrons
Souper5 [Visitor] writes:
I'm sure I am know where near as smart as Mr. Donlon, but I'm am sure that every GE engineer realizes that wind does not blow all of the time, and, therefore, back-up capacity is needed. I guess I'm just stupid enough to think that when the wind is blowing, and the wind farms are generating electricity, that the "conventional" resources typically used for electric generation would not be conserved. Oh, what a dope I am.
Anonymous [Visitor] writes:
Barbara,
I'll let you in on a little secret. That's why Cape Wind wants to put them in the ocean. The wind is more consistent. You see, they have thought this thing through.
I'll let you in on a little secret. That's why Cape Wind wants to put them in the ocean. The wind is more consistent. You see, they have thought this thing through.
Barbara Durkin [Visitor] writes:
Magical,
When you are criticized by a Cape Wind proponent for your Blog, take it as a well deserved compliment.
***** rating, Congratulations! I enjoy the cutting edge information you're providing about wind energy and the environment. Keep it up, your readers deserve no less than Nantucket Sound as is:)
When you are criticized by a Cape Wind proponent for your Blog, take it as a well deserved compliment.
***** rating, Congratulations! I enjoy the cutting edge information you're providing about wind energy and the environment. Keep it up, your readers deserve no less than Nantucket Sound as is:)
Anonymous [Visitor] writes:
That's mean spirited Barbara and you know it. "Cutting Edge" I can see the feathers flying.
Barbara Durkin [Visitor] writes:
Feb. 27 (Bloomberg) –
The adjustable-blade design, exclusive to General Electric, opens areas to turbines such as the Northeast and southwestern U.S. that lack the steady winds of the upper plains states, Zwolinksi said. ``We've proven the technology,'' he said.
The General Electric windmills are more difficult to maintain than standard equipment, said Dan Juhl, who has helped set up dozens of wind turbines, including the two on the Kas farm and 17 he owns across the street. ``I won't touch them,'' he said.
The adjustable-blade design, exclusive to General Electric, opens areas to turbines such as the Northeast and southwestern U.S. that lack the steady winds of the upper plains states, Zwolinksi said. ``We've proven the technology,'' he said.
The General Electric windmills are more difficult to maintain than standard equipment, said Dan Juhl, who has helped set up dozens of wind turbines, including the two on the Kas farm and 17 he owns across the street. ``I won't touch them,'' he said.
Souper5 [Visitor] writes:
Barbara,
I apologize for being so dense as to miss your point from the 8:39 post. I do know that most manufacturers offer some sort of adjustable blade, but perhaps it is just "perpendicular or parallel" (perpendicular in hurricane winds, so that the forces are minimized). And certainly, if I installed GE turbines without knowing what the maintenance expense would be and thus not properly accounting for it in my price, or if I did not have the expertise to take care of them, I would stay away from them as well. So, please, what is your point?
I apologize for being so dense as to miss your point from the 8:39 post. I do know that most manufacturers offer some sort of adjustable blade, but perhaps it is just "perpendicular or parallel" (perpendicular in hurricane winds, so that the forces are minimized). And certainly, if I installed GE turbines without knowing what the maintenance expense would be and thus not properly accounting for it in my price, or if I did not have the expertise to take care of them, I would stay away from them as well. So, please, what is your point?
Barbara Durkin [Visitor] writes:
Anonymous,
I am not the one advocating that we put up wind towers in a known migratory path. Who is being mean spirited?
The DOI knows better than to put wind towers in a migratory path, I just hope that DOI and MMS remember that they know this already. It is likely, I think, that they will deny Cape Wind's permit. I sense a tide of reasoning swelling. I also think that Cape and islanders recognize a dog and pony show when they see one. Yankees are not known to be very gullible. There are plenty of independent thinkers that recognize that when it all sounds too good to be true, it usually is.
"No" to wind power in Nantucket Sound, we just have to say it often enough, with conviction, and refuse to allow Cape Wind to commit a "taking."
Nantucket Sound is OCCUPIED.
I am not the one advocating that we put up wind towers in a known migratory path. Who is being mean spirited?
The DOI knows better than to put wind towers in a migratory path, I just hope that DOI and MMS remember that they know this already. It is likely, I think, that they will deny Cape Wind's permit. I sense a tide of reasoning swelling. I also think that Cape and islanders recognize a dog and pony show when they see one. Yankees are not known to be very gullible. There are plenty of independent thinkers that recognize that when it all sounds too good to be true, it usually is.
"No" to wind power in Nantucket Sound, we just have to say it often enough, with conviction, and refuse to allow Cape Wind to commit a "taking."
Nantucket Sound is OCCUPIED.
Anonymous [Visitor] writes:
Magical - what a shame my little lecture yesterday did no good, for I see once again you are accusing others of being me.
Will you ever learn anything?
By the way, I became knowledgable about Cape Wind way before the public was, occupational hazard. I read your stuff over the past week because the weather was lousy and I had time on my hands, it was hardly the first time. The content was so outrageous that I was inspired to comment. It continues to be outrageous.
Will you ever learn anything?
By the way, I became knowledgable about Cape Wind way before the public was, occupational hazard. I read your stuff over the past week because the weather was lousy and I had time on my hands, it was hardly the first time. The content was so outrageous that I was inspired to comment. It continues to be outrageous.
Souper5 [Visitor] writes:
Barbara,
The empirical proof is that the birds in the migratory path are able to avoid the windmills. The Danish wind farms had only 2 (TWO) bird kills in a year. While I'm sure that this fact has been manipulated, even if it's been manipulated to the 100th degree, it is not catastrophic. I'm surprised that Magical is not willing to acknowledge the intelligence of the bird population, while I see that Maverick did. I also wish to point out that there are essentially as many Cape Codders who support this project as there are those who oppose it. Whoof whoof, naay, naay.
The empirical proof is that the birds in the migratory path are able to avoid the windmills. The Danish wind farms had only 2 (TWO) bird kills in a year. While I'm sure that this fact has been manipulated, even if it's been manipulated to the 100th degree, it is not catastrophic. I'm surprised that Magical is not willing to acknowledge the intelligence of the bird population, while I see that Maverick did. I also wish to point out that there are essentially as many Cape Codders who support this project as there are those who oppose it. Whoof whoof, naay, naay.
Souper5 [Visitor] writes:
Anonymous,
AS I'm sure you've come to realize, the main reason behind my post on another blog regarding blade speed was to avoid falling into a trap of your words being used against you (although, I do think that my showing Magical how easy it is to do that, and the results therefrom, may have struck home). I'm even sensing a slight shift towards truly considering what others say. Maybe it is just the optimist in me, and the faith that all humans have the ability to intelligently consider facts presented by others. Let's watch and see.
AS I'm sure you've come to realize, the main reason behind my post on another blog regarding blade speed was to avoid falling into a trap of your words being used against you (although, I do think that my showing Magical how easy it is to do that, and the results therefrom, may have struck home). I'm even sensing a slight shift towards truly considering what others say. Maybe it is just the optimist in me, and the faith that all humans have the ability to intelligently consider facts presented by others. Let's watch and see.
Barbara Durkin [Visitor] writes:
Anonymous:
Nice cha cha. "It is shameful that GE, a highly profitable company, has decided to take advantage of faulty federal and state wind energy policies by producing turbines for "wind farms."
Barron's Donlan is calling the GE push on wind towers a scam, "shameful."
General Electric windmills are more difficult to maintain than standard equipment, said Dan Juhl, who has helped set up dozens of wind turbines, including the two on the Kas farm and 17 he owns across the street. ``I won't touch them,'' he said.
My point is that the exerienced Dan Juhl won't touch GE wind turbines, (maybe we shouldn't either).
The point is that GE is making turbines "because the customers want them." This statement implies that they don't work, but that there are customers, so...what's GE to do, turn down an order???
Nice cha cha. "It is shameful that GE, a highly profitable company, has decided to take advantage of faulty federal and state wind energy policies by producing turbines for "wind farms."
Barron's Donlan is calling the GE push on wind towers a scam, "shameful."
General Electric windmills are more difficult to maintain than standard equipment, said Dan Juhl, who has helped set up dozens of wind turbines, including the two on the Kas farm and 17 he owns across the street. ``I won't touch them,'' he said.
My point is that the exerienced Dan Juhl won't touch GE wind turbines, (maybe we shouldn't either).
The point is that GE is making turbines "because the customers want them." This statement implies that they don't work, but that there are customers, so...what's GE to do, turn down an order???
Barbara Durkin [Visitor] writes:
Souper 5:
Back here, in these United States, the AG of California is hot on the trail of the Atamont wind farm operators for bird kill in a migratory path.
Are you aware that the DOI has issued siting guidelines "not in areas with a known concentration of birds ie; migratory path?
Do you think that the IQ of a Danish bird might be higher than the IQ of our feathered deceased friends of the U.S. West Coast?
I suggest that you consider that a migratory path is a bad place for a wind facility. And, forget about the genius birds of Denmark.
MA Audubon scientists estimate between 2,300 and 6,600 birds per year would be killed by the Cape Wind Project.
Do you believe that they're saying the Big Dig might be over, finally?
Back here, in these United States, the AG of California is hot on the trail of the Atamont wind farm operators for bird kill in a migratory path.
Are you aware that the DOI has issued siting guidelines "not in areas with a known concentration of birds ie; migratory path?
Do you think that the IQ of a Danish bird might be higher than the IQ of our feathered deceased friends of the U.S. West Coast?
I suggest that you consider that a migratory path is a bad place for a wind facility. And, forget about the genius birds of Denmark.
MA Audubon scientists estimate between 2,300 and 6,600 birds per year would be killed by the Cape Wind Project.
Do you believe that they're saying the Big Dig might be over, finally?
Souper5 [Visitor] writes:
Barbara,
Regarding the relative intelligence of birds, perhaps Magical could chime in, since I am by no means a bird expert. Common sense, on the other hand, does leave me to believe that there might be fundamental differences between the Danish wind farms installed in a migratory path and the Altamont wind farm in a migratory path. Common sense dictates that if you build lattice structures as your turbine mast, that there MULTIPLE surfaces on which birds may nest, but on a smooth, round mast, it would be a little more difficult to build nests. If you do not know what a lattice structure is, picture a radio tower that you may see off of 128 by Needham. Many individual structural elements that make great nesting places. If you do not know what the modern turbine mast looks like, drive on I-93 into Boston, and look at the turbine near the gas tank. I think even you are smart enough to realize the difference it makes to nesting potential. The Danish experience is relevant, don't dismiss it so easily. A link to the Ma Aud study would be helpful.
Regarding the relative intelligence of birds, perhaps Magical could chime in, since I am by no means a bird expert. Common sense, on the other hand, does leave me to believe that there might be fundamental differences between the Danish wind farms installed in a migratory path and the Altamont wind farm in a migratory path. Common sense dictates that if you build lattice structures as your turbine mast, that there MULTIPLE surfaces on which birds may nest, but on a smooth, round mast, it would be a little more difficult to build nests. If you do not know what a lattice structure is, picture a radio tower that you may see off of 128 by Needham. Many individual structural elements that make great nesting places. If you do not know what the modern turbine mast looks like, drive on I-93 into Boston, and look at the turbine near the gas tank. I think even you are smart enough to realize the difference it makes to nesting potential. The Danish experience is relevant, don't dismiss it so easily. A link to the Ma Aud study would be helpful.
Souper5 [Visitor] writes:
Barbara,
Regarding the Big Dig, as has been said in this blog, it ain't over till the fat lady sings! Unfortunately, I think the fat lady has incurable laryngitis (sp?).
Regarding the Big Dig, as has been said in this blog, it ain't over till the fat lady sings! Unfortunately, I think the fat lady has incurable laryngitis (sp?).
Barbara Durkin [Visitor] writes:
Souper 5:
You can probably find a link on this through MA Audubon. This is from a hard copy:
Laura Johnson, President of MA Audubon, made formal request for a supplemental impact study to the USACE, in her letter to the USACE of February 23, 2005:
“The conclusion reached in the DEIS/EIR that the project is likely to cause approximately 364 bird deaths per year due to collisions is not supportable. By utilizing other bird mortality data provided in the DEIS, Mass Audubon staff scientists arrived at avian mortalities that ranged from 2,300 to 6,600 collision deaths per year.”
You can probably find a link on this through MA Audubon. This is from a hard copy:
Laura Johnson, President of MA Audubon, made formal request for a supplemental impact study to the USACE, in her letter to the USACE of February 23, 2005:
“The conclusion reached in the DEIS/EIR that the project is likely to cause approximately 364 bird deaths per year due to collisions is not supportable. By utilizing other bird mortality data provided in the DEIS, Mass Audubon staff scientists arrived at avian mortalities that ranged from 2,300 to 6,600 collision deaths per year.”
Barbara Durkin [Visitor] writes:
Souper 5:
You can probably find a link on this through MA Audubon. This is from a hard copy:
Laura Johnson, President of MA Audubon, made formal request for a supplemental impact study to the USACE, in her letter to the USACE of February 23, 2005:
“The conclusion reached in the DEIS/EIR that the project is likely to cause approximately 364 bird deaths per year due to collisions is not supportable. By utilizing other bird mortality data provided in the DEIS, Mass Audubon staff scientists arrived at avian mortalities that ranged from 2,300 to 6,600 collision deaths per year.”
You can probably find a link on this through MA Audubon. This is from a hard copy:
Laura Johnson, President of MA Audubon, made formal request for a supplemental impact study to the USACE, in her letter to the USACE of February 23, 2005:
“The conclusion reached in the DEIS/EIR that the project is likely to cause approximately 364 bird deaths per year due to collisions is not supportable. By utilizing other bird mortality data provided in the DEIS, Mass Audubon staff scientists arrived at avian mortalities that ranged from 2,300 to 6,600 collision deaths per year.”
Magical Eye [Member] writes:
souper5 I guess as far as intelligence, in human terms (this is the key!), you might want to consider birds more like children crossing a busy highway when it comes to avoiding speeding objects like turbine blades. Of course turbine blades can stop and start up rapidly making it even more difficult to judge... But then again birds are not human children they are birds who mostly use their instinct and experience to survive. Experience being another key here. You don't get to experience a collision with a turbine twice.
Anonymous KMA [Visitor] writes:
Magical,
Birds fly into large buildings, forget the turning blades.
Birds fly into large buildings, forget the turning blades.
Magical Eye [Member] writes:
Yes they do because they see the window as a space to move through to get to the other side.
Magical Eye [Member] writes:
PS. Anonymous KMA, interesting that you are Anonymous KMA on this blog but just Anonymous on the other. Is there a reason why?
Anonymous KMA [Visitor] writes:
Magical,
It's not an effort to decive, I will call myself KMA from now on. It should help you in not blaming the wrong person for their posts.
It's not an effort to decive, I will call myself KMA from now on. It should help you in not blaming the wrong person for their posts.
Magical Eye [Member] writes:
Anonymous KMA... don't worry about me, I just realized last night that your posts come into me with your IP address on them so I know who you are. This will definitely keep the confusion to a minimum.
Capeguy [Visitor] writes:
GE has a patent on variable speed transmission, not variable blade. All large scale turbines turn the individual blades as a way to maximize energy and control rpms at higher wind speeds.
The GE patent goes back 20 years or so and GE bought it from Enron who bought if from Kenetech I think. Anyways it allows GE machine to be slightly more efficient in extracting enery from the wind. Vestas has to downsize their generation output by using variable slip. I think this application of patent law is nonsense because it restricts competion and allow GE to overcharge for its machine, but hey thats business.
If wind turbines suck why does it take 3 years to get a new one??
The GE patent goes back 20 years or so and GE bought it from Enron who bought if from Kenetech I think. Anyways it allows GE machine to be slightly more efficient in extracting enery from the wind. Vestas has to downsize their generation output by using variable slip. I think this application of patent law is nonsense because it restricts competion and allow GE to overcharge for its machine, but hey thats business.
If wind turbines suck why does it take 3 years to get a new one??
Stephen Peckham [Visitor] writes:
Magical, yours of 9:08 is an interesting corrlillary (sp?) care to expound on it?
And, why we should be so concerned about the negligible bird kills from MONOPILE based turbines as compared to them comitting unintential suicide flying into windows of anything from homes to skyscrapers by the millions.
Please do try and steer clear of any suggestion of outrageous & undocumented kills from newer units... it may set me off, and I am trying to rehabilitate myself.
Please consider a truce on the inane and I will too.
And, why we should be so concerned about the negligible bird kills from MONOPILE based turbines as compared to them comitting unintential suicide flying into windows of anything from homes to skyscrapers by the millions.
Please do try and steer clear of any suggestion of outrageous & undocumented kills from newer units... it may set me off, and I am trying to rehabilitate myself.
Please consider a truce on the inane and I will too.
Magical Eye [Member] writes:
Avian mortality due to flying into windows etc., occurs and is regrettable, but that in no way means additional mortality can or should be trivialized. Quite to the contrary, it makes any additional mortality even more serious. As I have said before, wind power is growing and with that the impact on birds will grow with it.
Maverick [Visitor] writes:
Anonymous...you questioned and I am paraphrasing "how will a pole with blades or rotors on top hurt the environment?" Please do me the courtesy of looking up the word "environment" in Webster's. You may find the answer once you understand what the word "environment" means and includes.
Stephen Peckham [Visitor] writes:
Magical, Out the door but... Now you leave me confused... Previously you have said on more than one occassion that countries are abandoning this growing 'industry' left & right. What gives?
Personally, again, I think your efforts to reduce bird kills (and encouraging others to consider)would be much more effective and acceptable if you would at least consider the offset of replacing fossil fuel with well placed wind farms to reduce the TOXINS that most of us agree to be much more dangerous now and in the long term.
Of course, you realize, AND will come to understand... the Cape Wind project is PERFECTLY PLACED!!!
Personally, again, I think your efforts to reduce bird kills (and encouraging others to consider)would be much more effective and acceptable if you would at least consider the offset of replacing fossil fuel with well placed wind farms to reduce the TOXINS that most of us agree to be much more dangerous now and in the long term.
Of course, you realize, AND will come to understand... the Cape Wind project is PERFECTLY PLACED!!!
Magical Eye [Member] writes:
Peckham, I do not agree with you that Cape Wind will replace any fossil fuel plant(s). And once again, I say wind power is a high impact non resolution. It will hurt our already struggling environment not help. Another analogy... when I moved into my NYC loft, it had a huge terrace with a railing around it. But the railing wasn't sound so I removed it rather than have someone think they could lean on it and thus fall to his death. Wind Power is like putting a band-aid on a cancerous growth. It may cover it up but it is no cure.
Anonymous KMA [Visitor] writes:
Maverick,
I looked up "environment" in Websters. I'd like to hear more on your thoughts.
For instance, is boating through Nantucket sound sport fishing within the defiition of "environment"?
Just a question.
I looked up "environment" in Websters. I'd like to hear more on your thoughts.
For instance, is boating through Nantucket sound sport fishing within the defiition of "environment"?
Just a question.
Maverick [Visitor] writes:
Stephen, hello! PERFECTLY PLACED. In the middle of a public waterway, in the middle of a major migratory flyway, in the middle of one of the most beautiful, pristine settings on earth . This is a publicly financed venture through subsidies with a privately owned beneficiary. Cape Wind must feel like they hit POWERBALL. If they had to purchase 24 sq. acres this would not have gotten past the first business plan draft. But we will give them one of the Cape's greatest treasures for basically nothing, and please don't give me that crap about them leasing the acreage, in the hope of lower electric bills. Why can't that be part of the plan? Guaranteed rates for the rest of our lives. Guaranteed elimination of nuclear waste from Cape Cod. Guaranteed reduction in global warming. The only guarantee we have is that the owners of this supposed energy factory will make a lot of money and in the process destroy one of the most beautiful places on earth.
Maverick [Visitor] writes:
Stephen...Acres, Miles whats the difference. I got confused when they were going to be awarded miles but only wnted to pay for the acres the turbines sat on.
Maverick [Visitor] writes:
Anonymous...sport fishing falls under
b.The complex of social and cultural conditions affecting the nature of an individual or community.
Fishing on Cape Cod was a way of life before electricity was invented.
b.The complex of social and cultural conditions affecting the nature of an individual or community.
Fishing on Cape Cod was a way of life before electricity was invented.
Magical Eye [Member] writes:
Capeguy, you asked: "If wind turbines suck why does it take 3 years to get a new one??" Marketing! The USA is now jumping on the bandwagon without thinking it through. Many products are, as we know, developed promising THE FIX, resulting in a stampede to buy it... only to be regretted later because people didn't give it enough time to see the consequences. "Thalidomide" is one that comes immediately to mind.
Magical Eye [Member] writes:
Yes, Maverick... what a sweetheart deal for Cape Wind!
Maverick [Visitor] writes:
Anonymous KMA...I think fishing wins. I may be wrong but I didn't see any windmills at the Miracle of the loaves and fishes. Or was that before your time.
Anonymous KMA [Visitor] writes:
Did they have sport fishing back then? I just can't imagine Jesus in a Black Fin.
On a serious note, I'ts been a dream of mine to catch a tuna rod and reel.
On a serious note, I'ts been a dream of mine to catch a tuna rod and reel.
yay! [Visitor] writes:
this is great. I think this particular post has achieved terminal velocity!
If we could harness all the energy spread on this page we would never need new power!
How about a windmill on every home! No? Every tenth home? Subsidized by the feds and the town, and the state!
If we could harness all the energy spread on this page we would never need new power!
How about a windmill on every home! No? Every tenth home? Subsidized by the feds and the town, and the state!
Maverick [Visitor] writes:
Anonymous KMA...Would you enjoy sailing from beautiful Allen Harbor with my bride and I, steam past Monomoy and the seals, run out Pollack Rip Channel to Crab Ledge, The "BC" bouy or the Regal Sword.
We slow to trolling speed, set out the lures and the adventure begins. We find ourselves trolling among feeding humpbacks,how beautiful, and here come a school of dolphin. Why are they staying in the wake, swimming along and under the boat? Are they trying to communicate with us? It is beyond belief. The fishing is secondary. Please don't let Cape Wind or anyone else threaten this precious resource.
We slow to trolling speed, set out the lures and the adventure begins. We find ourselves trolling among feeding humpbacks,how beautiful, and here come a school of dolphin. Why are they staying in the wake, swimming along and under the boat? Are they trying to communicate with us? It is beyond belief. The fishing is secondary. Please don't let Cape Wind or anyone else threaten this precious resource.
Magical Eye [Member] writes:
Maverick... how beautiful! This is why I would like to interview you sometime... in all seriousness. You put a face on the Sound and she needs that more than ever now.
Stephen Peckham [Visitor] writes:
Wish I was around today, to be a small albeit 'irrational' part of this love fest. Souper where were you??? Have you no conscience?
Please excuse me ... I think I'm going to puke now.
Please excuse me ... I think I'm going to puke now.
Magical Eye [Member] writes:
Peckham I posted this elsewhere with regards to your continual delusional assertions: Of course, I don't expect you to consider the DOI of sound (excuse the pun) mind either.
http://www.capenews.net/files/pdf/DOI-Final-Matrix.pdf#search='mms%20comments%20on%20cape%20wind%20deis'
http://www.capenews.net/files/pdf/DOI-Final-Matrix.pdf#search='mms%20comments%20on%20cape%20wind%20deis'
Stephen Peckham [Visitor] writes:
Hey wait a minute Magical... what's with the "delusional assertations"? dem's MY WORDS! And you have no right to use them against me! Not fair at all.
After I wake up, and have some reliable & factual info to post... I plan to retaliate with "overwhelming force" to teach you a lesson once and for all!!!
In the meantime still have the mess to clean up from being ill last evening.
~So, Excuuuuuse me.
After I wake up, and have some reliable & factual info to post... I plan to retaliate with "overwhelming force" to teach you a lesson once and for all!!!
In the meantime still have the mess to clean up from being ill last evening.
~So, Excuuuuuse me.
Magical Eye [Member] writes:
You know what they are Peckham... your assertions about me... please go back over your numerous comments regarding me and my mental faculties with regards to the Cape Wind issues.
Stephen Peckham [Visitor] writes:
Could you save me the time (you know I am admittidly challanged in certain abilities) and recap them for me? Maybe I have to "take it (some) back"... if I expect to survive now that I have to watch my back!
Didn't I already apologize for at least some of my personal "attacks"?
Magical, you MUST know by now... I love you too!... but, not what you write about when you slinging about some of the stuff you do... much of what is just plain wrong on most counts and has been intelligently countered by others on your site.
Will admit to being not totally up to date on the LATEST findings & resolution of DOI' -2004- report but am working on it so I can reply responsibly.
~Later
Didn't I already apologize for at least some of my personal "attacks"?
Magical, you MUST know by now... I love you too!... but, not what you write about when you slinging about some of the stuff you do... much of what is just plain wrong on most counts and has been intelligently countered by others on your site.
Will admit to being not totally up to date on the LATEST findings & resolution of DOI' -2004- report but am working on it so I can reply responsibly.
~Later
Magical Eye [Member] writes:
Peckham... they are all listed on my latest blog post "US Dept. of Interior says Cape Wind DEIS is Flawed" There are 158 pages of comments but an easy read.
Stephen Peckham [Visitor] writes:
Thanks Magical. I read it this am. Am awaiting info as to the resolution of this 2004 report.
Honestly & admitidly don't know what has been done in the way of addressing any/all concerns. Would find it hard to beleive Cape Wind has not dealt with it responsibly. (don't go there Magical... & get me going now! I am trying to behave despite my nature)
Will note however, as usual a lot of bureaucratic(sp?) filler in there for the sake of "just doing my job". None the less, I do not discount legitiment concerns... avian and otherwise.
Time out!
Honestly & admitidly don't know what has been done in the way of addressing any/all concerns. Would find it hard to beleive Cape Wind has not dealt with it responsibly. (don't go there Magical... & get me going now! I am trying to behave despite my nature)
Will note however, as usual a lot of bureaucratic(sp?) filler in there for the sake of "just doing my job". None the less, I do not discount legitiment concerns... avian and otherwise.
Time out!
capeguy [Visitor] writes:
Magical
Marketing is the reason wnd turbines are having a huge demand?? please... the reason there is such a backlog is that wind turbines are now economical. Before you say the only reason wind energy is economical is because of tax subsidies is wrong. I will tell you a secret... all forms of electricity production is subsidized. Coal, oil, natural gas and especially nuclear is underwritten by the goverment. Environmental externalities of fossil fuel burning and protecting nuclear power plants would swing the cost benefit analysis even more in favor of clean wind. In other words if the dirty power producers paid for health costs associated by fossil fuel burning wind would be even more econmical...get it?? You need to stop using propoganda that distorts the big picture.... with the recent 80% spike in electricity costs you still think wind turbines are a bad idea?? I will give you this much, Nantucket Sound may be a bad place for turbines but wind turbines are the fastest growth industry in electricity generation and will continue to be.
Marketing is the reason wnd turbines are having a huge demand?? please... the reason there is such a backlog is that wind turbines are now economical. Before you say the only reason wind energy is economical is because of tax subsidies is wrong. I will tell you a secret... all forms of electricity production is subsidized. Coal, oil, natural gas and especially nuclear is underwritten by the goverment. Environmental externalities of fossil fuel burning and protecting nuclear power plants would swing the cost benefit analysis even more in favor of clean wind. In other words if the dirty power producers paid for health costs associated by fossil fuel burning wind would be even more econmical...get it?? You need to stop using propoganda that distorts the big picture.... with the recent 80% spike in electricity costs you still think wind turbines are a bad idea?? I will give you this much, Nantucket Sound may be a bad place for turbines but wind turbines are the fastest growth industry in electricity generation and will continue to be.
Magical Eye [Member] writes:
answer us this capeguy... why do the citizens of Denmark pay among the highest rates in the world for their electricity if wind power is so economical?
Magical Eye [Member] writes:
Believe me Peckham I understand since this document is not addressed in the public view. Why? I really don't know. But it is important since many people are using the DEIS as statement of unchallenged fact. And, I credit you with your honesty concerning it.
Stephen Peckham [Visitor] writes:
If you would Magical, please document your assertations as to Denmarks having the "highest rates in the world" v/s other countries in the region.
Not having this information at hand as it would seem you have researched, it would be appreciated.
I... would additionally, and particularly be interested in knowing the what the rates are in Denmark for electricity in the area serviced by the wind farms; and, what they are outside of these areas.
Needless to say, we all know, and should be able to accept the fact that the electricity is utilized at the point of where the first demand occurs regardless of who "purchases" the electricity.
So, in the case of... say those (the turbines) off say 'Nystead' I need to know if it is they... who benefit from this "unlimited & renewable" source of power, or some other (fortunate) entity, with say... 'purchasing power'... ie an entity who contracts for long term power @ an agreed price.
As noted, I am researching DOI document; and, as well, will offer if it has/not been afforded a public viewing. I agree, it is important to know.
Not having this information at hand as it would seem you have researched, it would be appreciated.
I... would additionally, and particularly be interested in knowing the what the rates are in Denmark for electricity in the area serviced by the wind farms; and, what they are outside of these areas.
Needless to say, we all know, and should be able to accept the fact that the electricity is utilized at the point of where the first demand occurs regardless of who "purchases" the electricity.
So, in the case of... say those (the turbines) off say 'Nystead' I need to know if it is they... who benefit from this "unlimited & renewable" source of power, or some other (fortunate) entity, with say... 'purchasing power'... ie an entity who contracts for long term power @ an agreed price.
As noted, I am researching DOI document; and, as well, will offer if it has/not been afforded a public viewing. I agree, it is important to know.
Magical Eye [Member] writes:
SP, I will look at my links but this assertion is from many sources. And I probably should have said 'among' the highest rates in the world. Unfortunately, a lot of research would need to be done to compare electric rates from Denmark and other contries. Someone has probably done it but I wouldn't want to attempt it myself.. that one I will leave to those who have methods and staffs for collecting such data.
Stephen Peckham [Visitor] writes:
Come now Magical... I am trying to get definative answers as to the current standing of the DOI report as it relates to the pending approval of the project; and, what if any concerns raised will be/need be addressed and if so then why not?
I think you should have been prepared to back up your assertation from VALID sources BEFORE you alledge, obsfucate (sp!), or cry (sic) fowl.
I think it in the interest of fair play (Just the TRUE FACTS Jack - no baloney) whether they are the highest rates or just plain high... after all our just went up 81% or so.
You said it... Now: Defend it!
I have a problem with anyone spouting off on a subject based on rumors, inuendo, misrepresentaions, and outright lies.
It is the reason I get so upset at times, loose my cool and behave like a total jerk... it really pisses me off. It is the reason I became such a ferocious defender of the project.
If the opposition were truthful, honorable, respectful, showed some intgegrity it would be a different matter. I will not stand by... even if it means lowering myself to that level at times.
I think you should have been prepared to back up your assertation from VALID sources BEFORE you alledge, obsfucate (sp!), or cry (sic) fowl.
I think it in the interest of fair play (Just the TRUE FACTS Jack - no baloney) whether they are the highest rates or just plain high... after all our just went up 81% or so.
You said it... Now: Defend it!
I have a problem with anyone spouting off on a subject based on rumors, inuendo, misrepresentaions, and outright lies.
It is the reason I get so upset at times, loose my cool and behave like a total jerk... it really pisses me off. It is the reason I became such a ferocious defender of the project.
If the opposition were truthful, honorable, respectful, showed some intgegrity it would be a different matter. I will not stand by... even if it means lowering myself to that level at times.
Magical Eye [Member] writes:
Peckham... I said and I quote "I will look at my links but this assertion is from many sources." that Denmark is paying among the highest rates in the world for electricity.
But as to your problem with anyone spouting off on a subject based on rumors, innuendo, misrepresentations and outright lies..... oh my, Peckham... haven't you and Cape Wind been doing that all along when you boast that Cape Wind's and Army Corp's DEIS with regards to all of the issues raised? Talk about spouting and spreading rumors, innuendo, misrepresentations and outright lies! Hate to have to say it but HYPOCRITE! And NOW you say this "I am trying to get definitive answers as to the current standing of the DOI report as it relates to the pending approval of the project; and, what if any concerns raised will be/need be addressed and if so then why not?" I notice you don't seem to be giving any credence to the issues raised as incomplete, insufficient, misleading etc. by the DOI.
But as to your problem with anyone spouting off on a subject based on rumors, innuendo, misrepresentations and outright lies..... oh my, Peckham... haven't you and Cape Wind been doing that all along when you boast that Cape Wind's and Army Corp's DEIS with regards to all of the issues raised? Talk about spouting and spreading rumors, innuendo, misrepresentations and outright lies! Hate to have to say it but HYPOCRITE! And NOW you say this "I am trying to get definitive answers as to the current standing of the DOI report as it relates to the pending approval of the project; and, what if any concerns raised will be/need be addressed and if so then why not?" I notice you don't seem to be giving any credence to the issues raised as incomplete, insufficient, misleading etc. by the DOI.
Magical Eye [Member] writes:
PS. Peckham and Cape Wind supporters don't aim your anger at the opposition... aim it where it belongs at Cape Wind for their failure to disclose this important document to you.
Stephen Peckham [Visitor] writes:
Na na Nanette... You are not going to get off so easy this time! YOU... You stated what one would take to be a "fact" (a Magic fact?) that Denmark had amoungst the HIGHEST electric rates in the world! You said it now... PROVE IT!
Don't keep trying to change the subject.
As I said... the DOI document is over a year and a half old and I don't recall what it's resolution is if any. I will offer again that at this point what ever it's resolution or lack there of 'Minerals Management' will decide what is in our best interest. And you know what? It is fine with me what ever their decision... it will be in the OVERALL best interest of the public.
Regardless, of what you or anyone else thinks about the DEIS...valid or not.
And by the way, it is not up to Cape Wind to disclose info to which you refer. It was, and is the agencies who reviewed it... and it was done PUBLICLY! You were just not on the recieving end and as I said, quite frankly this info is so OLD at this point.
I am doing my home work to see where DOI stands... So let's just see if you can actually do yours! No?
Don't keep trying to change the subject.
As I said... the DOI document is over a year and a half old and I don't recall what it's resolution is if any. I will offer again that at this point what ever it's resolution or lack there of 'Minerals Management' will decide what is in our best interest. And you know what? It is fine with me what ever their decision... it will be in the OVERALL best interest of the public.
Regardless, of what you or anyone else thinks about the DEIS...valid or not.
And by the way, it is not up to Cape Wind to disclose info to which you refer. It was, and is the agencies who reviewed it... and it was done PUBLICLY! You were just not on the recieving end and as I said, quite frankly this info is so OLD at this point.
I am doing my home work to see where DOI stands... So let's just see if you can actually do yours! No?
Magical Eye [Member] writes:
Here is a link for you Peckham re Denmark and its being among the highest costs of elec in the world. And it is nice to note this wasn't at a time as now when you say our enercy const have risen! http://johnrsweet.com/personal/wind/PDF/Schleede-EIAreport-20050326.pdf#search='denmark%20has%20among%20the%20highest%20cost%20for%20electric%20in%20the%20world'
Magical Eye [Member] writes:
It is up to Cape Wind to disclose the issues so people can make informed decisions based on fact not fantasy. But you are happy with their lack of disclosure. Fine. I know I wouldn't be if I were supporting a cause that withheld vital information from me and allowed me to spread misinformation to the public.
Magical Eye [Member] writes:
It is a matter of ethics, Peckham. But I guess that doesn't count much... being that it is far outweighed by wining, dining, boat rides and behind the scenes VIP tours of a Wind Farm in Denmark sponsored by Cape Wind and Clean Power Now.
Maverick [Visitor] writes:
Magical...sorry to interupt. I thought it was Dona vs Jack now I see it is Dona vs Stephen. Jack lost. I have spent all morning doing a canned goods inventory. I heard a rumor that Stephen P and the "Turbine Factory" gang were trying to have our concerned citizens group banned from the Cape. Banished to spend the rest of our days living offshore amongst the turbines. Damn the torpedoes! Full speed ahead.
P.S. Where is anonymous KMA? I had an apology to offer.
P.S. Where is anonymous KMA? I had an apology to offer.
Stephen Peckham [Visitor] writes:
Thanks Magical, but there is no way I would attempt to type all that! Please send me a link via e-mail I will NOT contact you direct. You have already put your address out there so you can see I am respectfull at least in that regard.
Do yourself a favor and sign up to Cape Winds site and you may find a lot of your concerns have already been addressed. Naturally, you might as well with the d'Alliance (my pet name) to have some "subjective" balance(?)
Interested in knowing from you in this post why you would not quote directly from the information on Denmark? Something taken out of context?
Again please email so I can see for myself... Maybe you tell no lies - only fibs?
Must take you to task on yes, an absurd accusation regarding the trip to Denmark... It was not sponsored by Cape Wind (not even their idea... imagine that!) nor paid by CPN... Why even if it were CPN's sponsorship or Cape Wind's (I wish it didn't cost me $3k+!) I am very interested in hearing about how it would be UNETHICAL??? (This should be good for an imaginary magical tall tale)
Let it rip Magical!
Do yourself a favor and sign up to Cape Winds site and you may find a lot of your concerns have already been addressed. Naturally, you might as well with the d'Alliance (my pet name) to have some "subjective" balance(?)
Interested in knowing from you in this post why you would not quote directly from the information on Denmark? Something taken out of context?
Again please email so I can see for myself... Maybe you tell no lies - only fibs?
Must take you to task on yes, an absurd accusation regarding the trip to Denmark... It was not sponsored by Cape Wind (not even their idea... imagine that!) nor paid by CPN... Why even if it were CPN's sponsorship or Cape Wind's (I wish it didn't cost me $3k+!) I am very interested in hearing about how it would be UNETHICAL??? (This should be good for an imaginary magical tall tale)
Let it rip Magical!
KMA [Visitor] writes:
KMA is here. Just got back from W. Harwich. Building a home for my brother in law with an ocean view.
Stephen Peckham [Visitor] writes:
Watch out Maverick... I'm carrying, warmed up and ready for you too!
No slinging BS... stick to the facts (or it's Black)Jack!
No slinging BS... stick to the facts (or it's Black)Jack!
Magical Eye [Member] writes:
Didn't say it was unethincal. The ethics remark was an addition to my previous post "It is up to Cape Wind to disclose the issues so people can make informed decisions based on fact not fantasy. But you are happy with their lack of disclosure. Fine. I know I wouldn't be if I were supporting a cause that withheld vital information from me and allowed me to spread misinformation to the public." That is what a was referring to as a matter of ethics. And then added ethics probably didn't concern you much since you were wined and dined etc by the wind industry.
Magical Eye [Member] writes:
Maverick... please comment. you are not interrupting at all! My fingers are needing a rest anyway.... so much typing back and forth with Peckham. Could use a break!
Stephen Peckham [Visitor] writes:
Besides, Dona is a lightweight. And a girl. :-)
(That should get her ruttin!)
Opps!... personal attack! Just foolin' Magical... REALLY!!! Keep em at bay or I will be forced to... RUN!
(That should get her ruttin!)
Opps!... personal attack! Just foolin' Magical... REALLY!!! Keep em at bay or I will be forced to... RUN!
Magical Eye [Member] writes:
Peckham do you actually think Denmark would publish that their electric rates for their citizens are among the highest in the world? LOL Yup, I do have a bridge I want to sell you!!
Stephen Peckham [Visitor] writes:
Magical, I am sure you are a wonderful, intelligent, lovely woman. But, like all humans it seems to me you are afflicted with one or more defects. Yours... Paranoia & dillusion. Pardon the spelling if incorrect. Mine... Take a stab at it!
Stephen Peckham [Visitor] writes:
Magical, there you go again... You said you had a source that disclosed this information. I did not suggest it was Denmark - Duh? Please answer the question... at least this one time.
Magical Eye [Member] writes:
Peckham you wrote: "Interested in knowing from you in this post why you would not quote directly from the information on Denmark?" Once again here is the link you requested http://johnrsweet.com/personal/wind/PDF/Schleede-EIAreport-20050326.pdf#search='denmark%20has%20among%20the%20highest%20cost%20for%20electric%20in%20the%20world'
KMA [Visitor] writes:
I think a danish in the US is cheaper but I'd rather have a danish Danish. It's just a much better danish.
Stephen Peckham [Visitor] writes:
Magical, Once again you refuse to comply with a request to document your source by way of QUOTING DIRECTLY in your post. Why is that so difficult? What are you hiding? You send along an impossibley long link for me to copy. I asked you to email it at least twice so I could attmept to verify it myself. You do not.
Jack is right. You play by your own rules and sling a lot of undocumented, irresponsible, fantacy garblelegook leaving us shaking our heads.
Cut the crap.
Jack is right. You play by your own rules and sling a lot of undocumented, irresponsible, fantacy garblelegook leaving us shaking our heads.
Cut the crap.
Stephen Peckham [Visitor] writes:
KMA... From first hand experience: Danish Danish from Denmark, the only way to go!
Idea... anyone interested in kicking in besides me to send Magical to Denmark? Maybe she will stay.
Idea... anyone interested in kicking in besides me to send Magical to Denmark? Maybe she will stay.
Magical Eye [Member] writes:
I sent you the link Peckham... do the work. I am not your secretary.
Maverick [Visitor] writes:
KMA...as I layed my head on the pillow last night waiting for the tooth fairy to arrive, I realized how wrong I was. You were right. The "turbine factory" will create a wonderful economic opportunity for Maverick Charters. I will be able to raise the rate for all trips that cross Horseshoe Shoal because they will include turbine sightings. Also, not only can I have a pool for biggest fish, I can include pools for most turbines sighted, most dead birds sighted, etc. However, the most profitable will be the gaming. The house gets the usual bookie vigorish 5%-10%. I can set odds for the following - over/under as to how many minutes it will take to cross the minefield, will we make it through the minefield, etc. Obviously the odds will be sky high on blind fog or bad weather trips. But some folks will gamble on anything including the unproven benefits of a "turbine factory" in the middle of Nantucket Sound.
P.S. I wish "Butch from the Cape" of WEEI fame was still with us. He could have articulated my thoughts more eloquently than I.
P.S. I wish "Butch from the Cape" of WEEI fame was still with us. He could have articulated my thoughts more eloquently than I.
Magical Eye [Member] writes:
PS. Wow Peckham you invested 3k in that trip! I would say that very well could be the reason why you are so defensive of Cape Wind! I mean with that kind of an investment you just gotta believe!!!
Magical Eye [Member] writes:
Hey Captain... who was 'Butch from the Cape' and what is WEEI? But believe you are being modest when you say someone could articulate your thoughts better.
Stephen Peckham [Visitor] writes:
I loved it Magical... Wish you had been there. It would have made my day to see you how you vibrated from the oscillations coming from the turbines and scream (I won't tell if you don't) with pain from the intensity of the noise pulsating in your ears as we left the dock to head out to them.
Think we would have had to lash you to the deck.
As a matter of fact I am trying to raise $ to send you (your signifigant, and your brothers?)in another blog so stay tuned.
Hey, while your over there maybe you could check in with the electric company for me and get that info you were telling us all about... you know the highest rates in the world... Tell me again, who said that?
Think we would have had to lash you to the deck.
As a matter of fact I am trying to raise $ to send you (your signifigant, and your brothers?)in another blog so stay tuned.
Hey, while your over there maybe you could check in with the electric company for me and get that info you were telling us all about... you know the highest rates in the world... Tell me again, who said that?
KMA [Visitor] writes:
Maverick,
Enjoyed your post, but I believe it was the "other" anonymous that suggested the sightseeing.
Butch was a classic. They just don't make them like that anymore.
Enjoyed your post, but I believe it was the "other" anonymous that suggested the sightseeing.
Butch was a classic. They just don't make them like that anymore.
Stephen Peckham [Visitor] writes:
Oh goodie... Just for you Magic: The latest info regarding the 2004 DOI report... As it currently stands, the MMS of the DOI will decide what if any concerns will have to be addressed, and IF there are any of concern then Cape Wind address them as requested. Seeing as it has been over six months since MMS took over the lead for approval... can't be looking for that much eh?
Also, FYI I have not obtained your link by email as you said you did, but never-the-less I will have information at some point next week about the rates in Denmark and other area in Europe. Preliminary information would indicate that Denmark is "mid range" in the area of electic rates.
Of course my source(s) MAY remain completely confidential & possibly fictional as is Magicals ARE.
Wind farm is coming Magical... RUN!!!
Also, FYI I have not obtained your link by email as you said you did, but never-the-less I will have information at some point next week about the rates in Denmark and other area in Europe. Preliminary information would indicate that Denmark is "mid range" in the area of electic rates.
Of course my source(s) MAY remain completely confidential & possibly fictional as is Magicals ARE.
Wind farm is coming Magical... RUN!!!
Magical Eye [Member] writes:
Anonymous KMA... I do believe it was you who suggested the sightseeing. Same IP address.
Maverick [Visitor] writes:
Dear whoever you are...How many anonymous's are there on the Cape. I would surmise that if you are anonymous you are insignificant. The founding fathers and their beliefs were totally in the open regardless of the consequence. The only folks that I have seen following that lead are the opponents of the "turbine factory". The good, concerned citizens seem to stand up regardless of the consequence. If I want to find the balance of the participants in this debate all I have to do is turn over a few rocks in my yard. OOPS! I just found Stephen P.
Magical Eye [Member] writes:
Maverick you crack me up! :)
Stephen Peckham [Visitor] writes:
Maverick, When I come back from dinner you are in deep poo.
Smelly one!
Smelly one!
Maverick [Visitor] writes:
Magical... "Butch from the Cape" was a caller to talk radio. WEEI, based in Boston, is the most popular sports radio talk show in the country and was his favorite forum. Even though he lived on the Cape he was a Yankee fan and loved to tweek Boston fans about the fact they had not won the world series since who knows when. Unfortunatly, Butch passed away from lung cancer prior to the Red Sox world series win much to the chagrine of Sox fans who would have loved to rub it in. He could express in a couple of sentences what most folks like me need paragraphs. He was irreverant, unafraid and sacrilegious. However, He was always respectful to all genders, opponents, antagonists, etc. Sound unfamiliar!
Stephen Peckham [Visitor] writes:
Maverick step to the plate and state your case. What is wrong with the proposed wind farm? And what would it take to have your support to get behind the project?
Magical Eye [Member] writes:
Okay Peckham... I will post this to all of the blogs you have gone to to post your pathetic attempt for attention from me. Here we go! “Peckham this is the last time I will address this issue for you in any way. Copy the link and paste it into your browser. If you can't figure it out go find a child and they can do it for you.”
Stephen Peckham [Visitor] writes:
NAME your source Magical... Can't do it can you?
No link before it's time!
No link before it's time!
Magical Eye [Member] writes:
Peckham, Mommie has left the building to find adults who would like to discuss the issues. Enjoy children!
Stephen Peckham [Visitor] writes:
Hey Mommie... while you are out... Will you try and find the SOURCE?
HA!... Talk about an issue... that you won't discuss!
HA!... Talk about an issue... that you won't discuss!
DV [Visitor] writes:
I'm a veteran of the Denmark trip and enjoy having KMA back but not as much as Stephen. "From first hand experience: Danish Danish from Denmark, the only way to go!" Thanks SP- it is the way to go. Let's chip in (I will) for Magical's mystery tour of Nysted. After a letter I put in the Inky Mirror here, a caller from the Cape said to to me,
"My motto is windmills EVERYWHERE!"
"My motto is windmills EVERYWHERE!"
megapicker [Visitor] writes:
power, electrical, means a easier life for all of us. as opposed to industrial waste being pumped into the air, and the laxing of epa regs by party in power, I would think that a home power unit air driven would help reduce polutants that end up on the ground eventually , in our animals and plants...and oh yea.....what about our water? the cost of wind power is driven by profit and demand...solar power, I believe same situation, however they do have a bit of a stigma to overcome, so in the final analasys.
where do you all think we should be? burn more coal, build more nukers,
grow more corn-build some home-breweries,....or should we just do the best we can together, stop wasting so much time bitching and bickering about who has the right Idea, use our god - given sense and free resources and get on with it.I am real curious as to what the hell is wrong with all of you!
where do you all think we should be? burn more coal, build more nukers,
grow more corn-build some home-breweries,....or should we just do the best we can together, stop wasting so much time bitching and bickering about who has the right Idea, use our god - given sense and free resources and get on with it.I am real curious as to what the hell is wrong with all of you!
megapicker [Visitor] writes:
Well, a couple days has passed since my last post, and as I thought...no one seems to be all that cranked up about this, so, I bid the all farwell.
good for you ar go to h*&%% would have been acceptable even...
good for you ar go to h*&%% would have been acceptable even...
Magical Eye [Member] writes:
megapicker... I have no problem with a home windmill in fact i think they make some sense. It is the industrial plants that are the problem because among other things they really don't work.
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Once again...ad nauseum! You just pull stories off the web without doing your research. Do you really think the folks at Cape Wind or GE haven't considered this?
The amount of Mega Watts that Cape Wind will generate is about 173mw. You only run into grid intergration probelms at a much higher load.
But don't let the facts get in the way of your continuing attack on Cape Wind. Just keep throwing this stuff out there and hope that it sticks.
And you call Jim Gordon a snake oil salesman. What does that make you?