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Environmentalism and the Yachting Class
04/05/06 · 9:42 am :: posted by CCToday
Protecting birds, fishes, and above all, social privilege
In Jack Coleman's Wind farmer's almanac today, he makes a strong link between the leisure class and anti-environmental efforts.
Veblen saw through this crowd - then and now
Excerpts from economist Thorstein Veblen's incisive analysis, "The Theory of the Leisure Class," as relevant today as when the book was published in 1899.
A tip of the hat to author William Tucker, who wrote an essay for Harper's magazine in December 1977 titled, "Environmentalism and the Leisure Class: Protecting birds, fishes, and above all, social privilege."
The essay describes efforts to thwart the proposed Storm King energy project on the Hudson River, an eerie precursor to similar efforts decades later against Cape Wind.
Tucker punctuated his essay with excerpts from "The Theory of the Leisure Class," several of which are also cited here.
Chapter 8, "Industrial Exemption and Conservatism" -
"... If any portion or class of society is sheltered from the action of the environment in any essential respect, that portion of the community, or that class, will adapt its views and its scheme of life more tardily to the altered general situation; it will in so far tend to retard the process of social transformation ..."
" ... In the redistribution of the conditions of life that comes of the altered method of dealing with the environment, the outcome is not an equitable change in the facility of life throughout the group. The altered conditions may increase the facility of life for the group as a whole, but the redistribution will usually result in a decrease of facility or fullness of life for some members of the group ..."
" ... An advance in technical methods, in population, or in industrial organization will require at least some of the members of the community to change their habits of life, if they are to enter with facility and effect into the altered industrial methods; and in so doing they will be unable to live up to received notions as to what are the right and beautiful habits of life ..."
" ... Any change in men's views as to what is good and right in human life make its way but tardily at best. Especially is this true of any change in the direction of what is called progress; that is to say, in the direction of divergence from the archaic position ..."
" ... The leisure class is in great measure sheltered from the stress of those economic exigencies which prevail in any modern, highly organized industrial community. The exigencies of the struggle for the means of life are less exacting for this class than any other; and as a consequence of this privileged position we should expect to find it one of the least responsive of the classes of society to the demands which the situation makes for a further growth of institutions and a readjustment to an altered industrial situation ..."
" ... The leisure class is the conservative class. The exigencies of the general economic situation do not freely or directly impinge upon the members of this class. They are not required under penalty of forfeiture to change their habits of life and theoretical views of the external world to suit the demands of an altered industrial technique, since they are not in the full sense an organic part of the industrial community ..."
" ... Since conservatism is characteristic of the wealthier and therefore more reputable portion of the community, it has acquired a certain honorific or decorative value. It has become prescriptive to such an extent that an adherence to conservative views is comprised as a matter of course in our notions of respectability; and it is imperatively incumbent on all who would lead a blameless life of social repute ..."" ... Conservatism, being an upper class characteristic, is decorous; and conversely, innovation, being a lower-class phenomenon, is vulgar ..."
" ... The first and most unreflected element in that instinctive revulsion and reprobation with which we turn from all social innovators is this sense of the essential vulgarity of the thing. So that even in cases where one recognizes the substantial merits of the case for which the innovator is spokesman -- as may easily happen if the evils which he seeks to remedy are sufficiently remote in point of time or space or personal contact -- one still cannot but be sensible of the fact that the innovator is a person with whom it is at least distasteful to be associated, and from whose social contact one must shrink. Innovation is bad form ..."As if to echo Veblen and Coleman's observations, this story in the Palm Beach Evening News shows us how the leisure class is faring today.
81 comments
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Jack Coleman [Member] writes:
Great quote, Peck. Another good one from Wilde - a gentleman is someone who is never unintentionally rude.
Anonymous [Visitor] writes:
Nice pictures of Palm Beach. I guess the Cape is still a little cool this time of year.
Is Bridget Koch's wife or his daughter?
Is Bridget Koch's wife or his daughter?
Magical Eye [Member] writes:
I see that old green-eyed monster all over this post Jack. Gordon is of that class but, I see that doesn't bother you... Could it be cause Jim is gonna share it with you, and Peck?
Jack Coleman [Member] writes:
Apologists and sycophants for the leisure class leveled the same criticism against Veblen a century ago, Magical.
As to be expected, you missed the point. Veblen was writing about the leisure class, not the upper class. Gordon is a member of the upper class by dint of hard work and earned wealth; the Kennedys are members of the leisure class by virtue of inherited wealth and prestige.
As to be expected, you missed the point. Veblen was writing about the leisure class, not the upper class. Gordon is a member of the upper class by dint of hard work and earned wealth; the Kennedys are members of the leisure class by virtue of inherited wealth and prestige.
Magical Eye [Member] writes:
What was your point Jack???
Fishin\\\\\\\" for Answers [Visitor] writes:
Jack,
I looked up sycophant as "A person who seeks favor by flattering people of wealth or influence; a parasite; a toady". Have you looked on the mirror lately?
I looked up sycophant as "A person who seeks favor by flattering people of wealth or influence; a parasite; a toady". Have you looked on the mirror lately?
Jack Coleman [Member] writes:
Thanks, Len, appreciate it.
Fishin, in response to your question, no, I avoid that as I get older. How about you - when you look in a mirror, anyone there?
Fishin, in response to your question, no, I avoid that as I get older. How about you - when you look in a mirror, anyone there?
Jack Coleman [Member] writes:
Magical, if you don't understand the difference between earned and inherited wealth, you'll have to find someone else to walk you through the fine points.
Not to worry, it isn't that complicated.
Not to worry, it isn't that complicated.
KMA [Visitor] writes:
More importantly, did you all know that in about a 1/2 hr. The time/date will be.... 01-02-03-04-05-06
Magical Eye [Member] writes:
Jack you sure like to conveniently lump people together, don't you?
I'll ask again... what is your point with this post Jack?
I'll ask again... what is your point with this post Jack?
Fishin\\\\\\\\" for Answers [Visitor] writes:
Jack, Please note that I did not throw that incendiary term into the conversation, you did. Given your fiduciary relationship to persons of wealth and influece, I thought you should consider taking ownership of your own phrase. LOL
Magical Pink Eye [Visitor] writes:
Magical, If you don't understand the article then that's just too bad. Did you ever go to college? Are the big words over your head?
Jack Coleman [Member] writes:
Odd how Cape Wind's opponents can't seem to pry their hands from their eyes long enough to read what Veblen wrote. They are, to borrow a phrase I coined for another context, like the Victorian gent turning in horror from the sight of an exposed ankle.
Then again, not so odd.
Then again, not so odd.
Not leisurely enough [Visitor] writes:
Coleman, you are unbearably crude, rude, and just plain unpleasant to be around.
Does someone pay you to be such a jerk or do you act this way naturally?
Does someone pay you to be such a jerk or do you act this way naturally?
Fishin\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\" for Answers [Visitor] writes:
Not L E,
Jack's just going thru a bad patch these days, trying to defend a bad idea in a bad place at a bad time. But the turn of an exposed angle can do strange things to a man.
Jack's just going thru a bad patch these days, trying to defend a bad idea in a bad place at a bad time. But the turn of an exposed angle can do strange things to a man.
Fishin\\\\" for Answers [Visitor] writes:
Not L E,
P.S. He is getting paid for the drivel he writes
P.S. He is getting paid for the drivel he writes
Magical Stink Eye [Visitor] writes:
Looks like Jack\'s pegged the leisure class and it upsets them. You are what you are...
The leisure class grabs a part of the cape and then slams the door to developement. The Door Slammers scream \'I\'ve built my place, destroyed a little bit of nature, now nobody else do this or we\'ll ruin the natural beauty of the place\'.
The leisure class grabs a part of the cape and then slams the door to developement. The Door Slammers scream \'I\'ve built my place, destroyed a little bit of nature, now nobody else do this or we\'ll ruin the natural beauty of the place\'.
Magical Eye [Member] writes:
Jack, can't answer? Methinks, once again, you are doing a little thing the psychologists like to call projecting. Its okay Jack... we all recognize the thin thread you are hanging by concerning the point(?) of this post.
Rhode Islander [Visitor] writes:
Forgive me for asking but isn’t the leisure class expected to provide the majority of Cape Wind’s operating capital?
For more information see;
“Lehman Brothers joins Cape Wind”
http://www.capecodtoday.com/modules.php?op=modload&name=News&file=article&sid=145
“The 155 year-old investment firm's web site describes itself as "an innovator in global finance, serves the financial needs of corporations, governments and municipalities, institutional clients, and HIGH NET WORTH INDIVDUALS WORLDWIDE."
For more information see;
“Lehman Brothers joins Cape Wind”
http://www.capecodtoday.com/modules.php?op=modload&name=News&file=article&sid=145
“The 155 year-old investment firm's web site describes itself as "an innovator in global finance, serves the financial needs of corporations, governments and municipalities, institutional clients, and HIGH NET WORTH INDIVDUALS WORLDWIDE."
Magical Eye [Member] writes:
Walter you do realize that the NRDC was born from the Storm King battle? If you are equating Cape Wind's attempt to desecrate the Nantucket Sound, one of the most beautiful and historic areas of Massachusetts with an industrial power plant and Con Ed's attempt to do the same with one of the most beautiful historic areas of the Hudson River with its industrial eye-sore go right ahead because you are correct, there is an eerie similarity. PS. Con Ed lost.
Jack Coleman [Member] writes:
"turn of an exposed angle" - nice turn of a phrase, Fishin.
It wasn't just Con Ed that lost, Magical - it was New York and its residents for years.
It wasn't just Con Ed that lost, Magical - it was New York and its residents for years.
Anonymous [Visitor] writes:
Rhode Islander, Bill Gates is a High Net Worth Individual. That does not mean he is part of the leisure class. Bill Gates made his money the old fashioned way; He earned it....
The Kennedy clan have inherited the money earned by Joe Kennedy's bootlegging days. The Kennedy's obtained most of their wealth through the sale of Irish Whiskey.
http://gamblingmagazine.com/articles/53/53-22.htm
The Kennedy clan have inherited the money earned by Joe Kennedy's bootlegging days. The Kennedy's obtained most of their wealth through the sale of Irish Whiskey.
http://gamblingmagazine.com/articles/53/53-22.htm
Jack Coleman [Member] writes:
At the risk of causing you further revulsion by stating the obvious, Not Leisurely Enough, if you don't like what I write, don't read it. The choice is yours.
I knew this would strike a nerve and clearly it has.
I knew this would strike a nerve and clearly it has.
Anonymous [Visitor] writes:
Just imagine trying to build the Hoover Dam or Cape Cod Canal today. Many great projects public works projects of the 1930s would have been blocked by the Leisure Class such as the Kennedys.
The snail darter rules the day.... How pathetic.
The snail darter rules the day.... How pathetic.
Magical Eye [Member] writes:
And just how did the people of New York lose Jack?
Anonymous [Visitor] writes:
The snail darter case is another example of the leisure class in action.
http://www.lib.duke.edu/forest/Research/usfscoll/policy/northern_spotted_owl/1979owl.snaildarter.html
The 'sky is falling' environmentalists halted the use of a dam because they said that was the only place the snail darter lived. They found out a few years later that the snail darter also lived elsewhere. In the mean time, the environmentalists wasted millions of dollars of TVA in legal fees and use of the Dam. This waste waste was passed on the the TVA rate payers.
http://www.lib.duke.edu/forest/Research/usfscoll/policy/northern_spotted_owl/1979owl.snaildarter.html
The 'sky is falling' environmentalists halted the use of a dam because they said that was the only place the snail darter lived. They found out a few years later that the snail darter also lived elsewhere. In the mean time, the environmentalists wasted millions of dollars of TVA in legal fees and use of the Dam. This waste waste was passed on the the TVA rate payers.
Maverick [Visitor] writes:
Folks...I am poor, hard working and love Nantucket Sound.
This post suggests that my views would be supported by Veblen.
I am not leisure class and find it insulting for anyone to deem everyone opposed to Cape Wind as privileged or of inherited wealth.
I have never inherited anything and worked my ass off for what little I have.
And I still oppose the siting of Cape Wind.
This post suggests that my views would be supported by Veblen.
I am not leisure class and find it insulting for anyone to deem everyone opposed to Cape Wind as privileged or of inherited wealth.
I have never inherited anything and worked my ass off for what little I have.
And I still oppose the siting of Cape Wind.
Magical Eye [Member] writes:
Maverick this is just another feeble attempt to discredit the opposition to Cape Wind. It is ridiculous. Which is why Jack refuses to own up to it.
Anonymous [Visitor] writes:
The Storm King pumped storage facility would have save the New York Rate payer some money.
The utility company in the Storm King case would have used electricity generated during periods of slack demand, when electricity was inexpensive to pump water, and would have generated electricity with the water during periods of peak demand, when electricity was expensive. This was the cheapest way it could meet the daily demand for electricity, and hence it was economically efficient.
The utility company in the Storm King case would have used electricity generated during periods of slack demand, when electricity was inexpensive to pump water, and would have generated electricity with the water during periods of peak demand, when electricity was expensive. This was the cheapest way it could meet the daily demand for electricity, and hence it was economically efficient.
Anonymous [Visitor] writes:
Maverick, that's a real tough life you have take tourists out fishing. I feel for you....
Magical Eye [Member] writes:
Con Ed would have cost New York one of its most beautiful and historic areas. I assume you have no use for historic preservation.
Anonymous [Visitor] writes:
The project would have made a nice lake for generations to come. In 100 years people like you self would be crying to save the historic dam if it was not needed anymore.
Maverick [Visitor] writes:
Anonymous...If you would like to know how tough and hard working it is you are free to join me as a guest on any charter I have this season.
Then I would ask you to make the same post next year with a little experience under your belt.
Thanks
Then I would ask you to make the same post next year with a little experience under your belt.
Thanks
Jack Coleman [Member] writes:
From the article in Harper's by William Tucker that was cited in the blog post:
"In 1962, when Storm King was proposed, Con Ed officials said they thought they would have to provide 7.15 million kilowatts of power by the summer of 1969. As the summer of 1969 rolled around, Con Ed's seven-year-old predictions were coming in right on the button. The city set a midsummer peak record of 7.26 million kilowatts - only 4 percent above Con Ed's original predictions.
"The only trouble was, power wasn't there to meet it.
"Indian Point Two was supposed to come on line by 1969, but the Westinghouse Corporation had failed to meet its deadline (what with the fish kills and environmental suits, the plant was not put into operation until 1974). Con Ed contracted to buy 915,000 kilowatts of peak-time power from other utilities - the most expensive way to provide electricity - but was still left with only a 14 percent reserve standard, well under the industry standard of 20 percent.
"On July 31, 1969, the troubles began."
"In 1962, when Storm King was proposed, Con Ed officials said they thought they would have to provide 7.15 million kilowatts of power by the summer of 1969. As the summer of 1969 rolled around, Con Ed's seven-year-old predictions were coming in right on the button. The city set a midsummer peak record of 7.26 million kilowatts - only 4 percent above Con Ed's original predictions.
"The only trouble was, power wasn't there to meet it.
"Indian Point Two was supposed to come on line by 1969, but the Westinghouse Corporation had failed to meet its deadline (what with the fish kills and environmental suits, the plant was not put into operation until 1974). Con Ed contracted to buy 915,000 kilowatts of peak-time power from other utilities - the most expensive way to provide electricity - but was still left with only a 14 percent reserve standard, well under the industry standard of 20 percent.
"On July 31, 1969, the troubles began."
Magical Eye [Member] writes:
Jack... can't help but think you would sell your soul for money and the quick fix. Sure hope that isn't true. And I thank God there are people that see more value to God's precious gifts than that.
Maverick [Visitor] writes:
Jack C...thanks for all the info.
While your at it what is the draft of the barges to be used in construction?
Are you afraid to tell the residents of Cape Cod that it will require the total dredging of more than 24 sq. miles and the total decimation of Nantucket Sound and could impact Sanctuaries like Monomoy.
How can you sleep at night. I'm sure the paycheck helps. But then again it's all about money. Isn't it.
While your at it what is the draft of the barges to be used in construction?
Are you afraid to tell the residents of Cape Cod that it will require the total dredging of more than 24 sq. miles and the total decimation of Nantucket Sound and could impact Sanctuaries like Monomoy.
How can you sleep at night. I'm sure the paycheck helps. But then again it's all about money. Isn't it.
Magical Eye [Member] writes:
Maverick all of this talk about money and the opposition is just simply jealousy and anger that people of means are stopping the greedy that would sell out the Nantucket Sound. Because that is what it takes. MONEY. If the opposition didn't have it this country's beautiful places would all be destroyed for industry and greed.
Peckham [Visitor] writes:
God is the immemorial refuge of the incompetent, the helpless, the miserable. They find not only sanctuary in His arms, but also a kind of superiority, soothing to their macerated egoss; He will set them above their betters.
-H.L. Mencken
Mav... Ready to take you up on yur invite... Don't like to bait, pull the hook or fillet... But do like my blues on the BBQ w/ spot of mayo & lemon... Does this make me a bad person?
-H.L. Mencken
Mav... Ready to take you up on yur invite... Don't like to bait, pull the hook or fillet... But do like my blues on the BBQ w/ spot of mayo & lemon... Does this make me a bad person?
Jack Coleman [Member] writes:
From the aforementioned article in Harper's by William Tucker -
"On July 31, 1969, the troubles began. Big Allis (a 1,000 MW coal-burning power plant) fouled temporarily after the installers of a new turbine forgot to remove some insulating equipment.
"Under the increased strain, two older plants scheduled to be retired by Storm King also broke down. In a matter of hours, more than 20 percent of the utility's power was gone.
"For the next two weeks, New Yorkers began to experience what quickly became known as the 'power crisis.' Air conditioners were turned off, manufacturing plants cut their schedules, businesses closed down. While people throughout the country were celebrating the first moon landing, New York City turned into a sweltering steambath.
"Charles F. Luce, a former Undersecretary of the Interior who had just taken over as board chairman of Con Ed, said the problems were due to 'a feeling on the part of the public that even though a particular new power plant were not built, somehow the needed power would be provided.' "
"On July 31, 1969, the troubles began. Big Allis (a 1,000 MW coal-burning power plant) fouled temporarily after the installers of a new turbine forgot to remove some insulating equipment.
"Under the increased strain, two older plants scheduled to be retired by Storm King also broke down. In a matter of hours, more than 20 percent of the utility's power was gone.
"For the next two weeks, New Yorkers began to experience what quickly became known as the 'power crisis.' Air conditioners were turned off, manufacturing plants cut their schedules, businesses closed down. While people throughout the country were celebrating the first moon landing, New York City turned into a sweltering steambath.
"Charles F. Luce, a former Undersecretary of the Interior who had just taken over as board chairman of Con Ed, said the problems were due to 'a feeling on the part of the public that even though a particular new power plant were not built, somehow the needed power would be provided.' "
Magical Eye [Member] writes:
Jack what garbage. You will stoop to anything to prove.... oh yes, that's right, the point of this post... and once again what would that be?
Jack Coleman [Member] writes:
From William Tucker's article on Storm King in Harper's:
"Things turned out to be much worse than anticipated during the power crisis of 1970. In May, Indian Point One was closed by a defective cooling pipe. Then, on July 21, Big Allis went down for extensive repairs immediately projected to last through midwinter.
"Con Ed had begun installing gas turbines over the winter as a substitute for Storm King; by mid-July one of the turbines had failed, and Con Ed's total capacity was below the previous year's peak.
"The result was a summer in which voltage reductions and power failures became almost a daily occurrence. Even rush-hour subways didn't have enough power.
"In its scramble for power, Con Ed paid premium prices, importing electricity from as far away as Canada, New England and the Tennessee Valley Authority. Con Ed's profits, already at the lowest rates of any utility in the country, were getting lower.
"When another heat wave struck in September, voltage reductions were put into effect for the 15th time, and a blackout hit a 65-block area in Queens."
"Things turned out to be much worse than anticipated during the power crisis of 1970. In May, Indian Point One was closed by a defective cooling pipe. Then, on July 21, Big Allis went down for extensive repairs immediately projected to last through midwinter.
"Con Ed had begun installing gas turbines over the winter as a substitute for Storm King; by mid-July one of the turbines had failed, and Con Ed's total capacity was below the previous year's peak.
"The result was a summer in which voltage reductions and power failures became almost a daily occurrence. Even rush-hour subways didn't have enough power.
"In its scramble for power, Con Ed paid premium prices, importing electricity from as far away as Canada, New England and the Tennessee Valley Authority. Con Ed's profits, already at the lowest rates of any utility in the country, were getting lower.
"When another heat wave struck in September, voltage reductions were put into effect for the 15th time, and a blackout hit a 65-block area in Queens."
Maverick [Visitor] writes:
Jack C...when will we receive the wind data from the tower?
SP...add a little horseradish mustard to the mayo.
Have a good day guys. And be nice to the ladies while thanking them for all their hard work in bringing us facts versus fiction.
SP...add a little horseradish mustard to the mayo.
Have a good day guys. And be nice to the ladies while thanking them for all their hard work in bringing us facts versus fiction.
little Fish, Th. D. [Visitor] writes:
MAGICAL, I thought about this post and exactly what purpose does it serves. I considered looking for "rebuttal" excerpts from history's rich mine field and then I thought WHY? As I once said to you this reminds me a lot of the carnval cotton candy vendor who takes the non-edible core material you can't swallow and spins it around and round until it's covered in fluff that makes you think you are getting something special that is only a a "candy coating" filled mostly with air. That is what is being sold here. It also tries to muddy the waters so people are not looking at the real issues. This story must be an attempt to polarize people against the RICH I suppose. Jim Gordon rich GOOD Kennedy/Koch rich BAD.
I don't know about anyone else, but when I fly in the cabin class section of the plane I know what goes on behind the curtain. Did you know that there are big comfortable seats up there? I'm told the food is pretty good and that they actually serve champagne the whole flight? Did you know this?
But we all land in the same place at the same time. Hopefully SAFE and SOUND!
I don't know about anyone else, but when I fly in the cabin class section of the plane I know what goes on behind the curtain. Did you know that there are big comfortable seats up there? I'm told the food is pretty good and that they actually serve champagne the whole flight? Did you know this?
But we all land in the same place at the same time. Hopefully SAFE and SOUND!
Gimme a Break [Visitor] writes:
Mav--you're poor? Hardworking? Bull kaka. You have a computer and Internet access. You make a living going out fishing on a boat, which by the way is not a hobby affordable to the masses.
You're not picking lettuce in the sun, working at McDonald's or Wal-Mart--and these people don't have boats, believe me. If you're not rich, it's because you chose to make your hobby your job--like a golf pro or a personal trainer--and guess what, generally, hobbyists don't get paid like corporate executives. In addition, you get to write off your boat and fuel on your taxes--wouldn't we all love to do that.
And by the way, who owns the fish that you pull out of the waters of Nantucket Sound--don't we all own it? As you say? Well, maybe I'm an animal rights activist who thinks that any form of fishing, including catch and release, is cruel and spoils Nantucket Sound. As well as your exhaust-emitting boat. You are such a freaking hypocrite.
Need cash Mav? How about cleaning houses in the off-season? It pays well. You're not poor enough, I guess.
You're not picking lettuce in the sun, working at McDonald's or Wal-Mart--and these people don't have boats, believe me. If you're not rich, it's because you chose to make your hobby your job--like a golf pro or a personal trainer--and guess what, generally, hobbyists don't get paid like corporate executives. In addition, you get to write off your boat and fuel on your taxes--wouldn't we all love to do that.
And by the way, who owns the fish that you pull out of the waters of Nantucket Sound--don't we all own it? As you say? Well, maybe I'm an animal rights activist who thinks that any form of fishing, including catch and release, is cruel and spoils Nantucket Sound. As well as your exhaust-emitting boat. You are such a freaking hypocrite.
Need cash Mav? How about cleaning houses in the off-season? It pays well. You're not poor enough, I guess.
Jack Coleman [Member] writes:
Conspicuously absent from your last comment, Little Fish, was anything remotely resembling a rebuttal of what Veblen wrote about the leisure class and Tucker's analysis of opposition to the Storm King proposal. You have fallen into the same failure of interpretation as Magical - Veblen was not condemning the wealthy, nor am I (and the wealthy include Jim Gordon, as his opponents frequently remind us).
There is a world of difference between a person like Gordon, who earned his wealth through hard work and perseverance, and Ted Kennedy, who was born into it.
There is a world of difference between a person like Gordon, who earned his wealth through hard work and perseverance, and Ted Kennedy, who was born into it.
Little Fish, Th. D. [Visitor] writes:
Oh and Jack (the Willy Wanker of candy coated spin)...
When we talk about Storm King here locally the only thing that comes to most people's mind is the beautiful 400 acres where art sculptures are displayed in a natural setting for the public to enjoy. I'm told that some of it is there as a result of some rat bastard old money rich people. Some of them even have the nerve to put pieces from their own private collections on display. Why my friend MAGICAL and I enjoyed a beautiful sunny day there once giving no thoughts to the gloomy past. But then again why would we, no body else around here seems to?
But thanks for pointing out that lugubrious vision of Storm King I don't think many of us give two hoots and a holler about that but to each their own.
We prefer to roast our rich nuts over open fires of things like PCB pollution. We are still waiting for GE (an environmental name you can trust!!??!!) to clean up the mess they left around here.
When we talk about Storm King here locally the only thing that comes to most people's mind is the beautiful 400 acres where art sculptures are displayed in a natural setting for the public to enjoy. I'm told that some of it is there as a result of some rat bastard old money rich people. Some of them even have the nerve to put pieces from their own private collections on display. Why my friend MAGICAL and I enjoyed a beautiful sunny day there once giving no thoughts to the gloomy past. But then again why would we, no body else around here seems to?
But thanks for pointing out that lugubrious vision of Storm King I don't think many of us give two hoots and a holler about that but to each their own.
We prefer to roast our rich nuts over open fires of things like PCB pollution. We are still waiting for GE (an environmental name you can trust!!??!!) to clean up the mess they left around here.
Anonymous [Visitor] writes:
The storm king project would have made a nice lake for all to enjoy. You always here people complain when a dam is created and filled up. After a year or two everyone is water skiing, fishing, and swimming and they forget all about it.
Little Fish, Th. D. [Visitor] writes:
wow i must have heard your last comment coming Jack some times the timing of the send button is down right eerie
Little Fish, Th. D. [Visitor] writes:
Nope Ananonymous... Storm King would have been the wrong site for something like that. But if you want to read about a real marvel look up the history of the Great Sacandaga Lake. It's NY's largest man made lake and a tribute to old good old fashion engineering. My family has owned a home on the lake since 1964 so I can vouch for the swimming and sking and boating etc. Why it even was designed originally to produce electricty at it's dam. The world record Northern Pike was caught there. When someone comes up with a selfish idea about making changes to the lake why rich and poor alike we all gather round our town halls and tell them to get bent. The local governments listen to us and we go back to swimming and fishing and sking and boating and enjoying our leisure time we work so hard to be able to afford.
Jack Coleman [Member] writes:
Eerie it is, Little Fish.
More from William Tucker's article about Storm King -
" ... and a blackout hit a 65-block area in Queens. The Wall Street Journal quoted a Canadian woman who was cutting short a visit to Forest Hills. 'You can have New York,' she said.
"The steady exodus of manufacturing firms and corporate offices was suddenly turning into a rout. From 1969 to 1976, the city, now widely regarded as 'unlivable,' was to lose 650,000 jobs.
"Other factors certainly contributed, but the shambles of Con Ed's power system and its soaring rates didn't help. Nothing ripples through an economy more completely than the costs of energy."
More from William Tucker's article about Storm King -
" ... and a blackout hit a 65-block area in Queens. The Wall Street Journal quoted a Canadian woman who was cutting short a visit to Forest Hills. 'You can have New York,' she said.
"The steady exodus of manufacturing firms and corporate offices was suddenly turning into a rout. From 1969 to 1976, the city, now widely regarded as 'unlivable,' was to lose 650,000 jobs.
"Other factors certainly contributed, but the shambles of Con Ed's power system and its soaring rates didn't help. Nothing ripples through an economy more completely than the costs of energy."
Maverick [Visitor] writes:
Gimme a Break...thanks for your thoughts. I was once a well paid corporate executive, owned many businesses, and was considered rich.
However, I squandered my youth and fortune on yachts, fast cars, and the beautiful women of America. Had a special weakness for those in San Francisco and Boca Raton. Now I am paying for my sins. But what a memory.
As the tread on my tires wears thin and the tank is running low I have repented and joined the ranks of the poor.
I have found true wealth in sharing life with my beautiful bride, children and grandchildren.
They are my hobby. And charter fishing is hard work. Unless, of course, the party includes young ladies in bikini's.
Then long distant memories of money and youth are rekindled in this old sea dog.
SP...we do have some things in common Cape Wind not being one of them.
However, I squandered my youth and fortune on yachts, fast cars, and the beautiful women of America. Had a special weakness for those in San Francisco and Boca Raton. Now I am paying for my sins. But what a memory.
As the tread on my tires wears thin and the tank is running low I have repented and joined the ranks of the poor.
I have found true wealth in sharing life with my beautiful bride, children and grandchildren.
They are my hobby. And charter fishing is hard work. Unless, of course, the party includes young ladies in bikini's.
Then long distant memories of money and youth are rekindled in this old sea dog.
SP...we do have some things in common Cape Wind not being one of them.
Magical Eye [Member] writes:
Wow Jack, however did they live through it? Oh that's right they did... and without destroying the beauty of the Hudson River. Incredible!
Jack Coleman [Member] writes:
From William Tucker's article in Harper's about Storm King -
"Con Ed finances fell apart in early 1974 - a direct result of the high costs of buying outside power, the utility's enormous tax burden (25 percent of its revenue from customer billings goes to taxes), the overwhelming expenses of having to buy low-sulfur oil for city generation, and the resistance to rate increases.
"The quarterly dividend was cut, and Con Ed's stock - already known as a 'widows and orphans' holding (median shareholder, a 50-year-old woman) dropped to the floor."
"Con Ed finances fell apart in early 1974 - a direct result of the high costs of buying outside power, the utility's enormous tax burden (25 percent of its revenue from customer billings goes to taxes), the overwhelming expenses of having to buy low-sulfur oil for city generation, and the resistance to rate increases.
"The quarterly dividend was cut, and Con Ed's stock - already known as a 'widows and orphans' holding (median shareholder, a 50-year-old woman) dropped to the floor."
Maverick [Visitor] writes:
Jack C...I moonlighted in the Army as a security officer at PG&E in San Francisco. They went bankrupt.
We are as concerned as anyone else about renewable energy. We just want it sited in concert with the environment. Just like the folks opposed to Storm King.
You attempt to confuse siting with caring. Not fair my friend.
We are as concerned as anyone else about renewable energy. We just want it sited in concert with the environment. Just like the folks opposed to Storm King.
You attempt to confuse siting with caring. Not fair my friend.
Magical Eye [Member] writes:
Maverick this is the way Jack works and is his aim. But we see through it you and I and many others. That is why jack can only copy and paste quotes rather than standing up like a man and writing his own thoughts.
Jack Coleman [Member] writes:
From William Tucker's article on Storm King -
"The Storm King plant, of course, could probably have prevented the July 13 blackout (in New York City in 1977; Tucker's article appeared in Harper's that December).
"John B. Oakes, now senior editor of the New York Times; Walter Brown, director of the National Electric Reliability Council; and Rod Vandivert (a former advertising executive who handled PR for the opposition group Scenic Hudson) all agree on that.
"After all, that was what the plant was designed (italics in the original) to do. City officials investigating the power failure said they were amazed to learn that 'the generating capacity was available, they just couldn't bring it up in time.'
"Con Ed, of course, had been saying that for 15 years. The city investigation found that the crucial loss of power didn't occur until the last two lines from the north failed because they became overloaded carrying 2 million kilowatts.
"The lines from Storm King, which were to run along the same corridor, were designed to carry 2 million kilowatts."
"The Storm King plant, of course, could probably have prevented the July 13 blackout (in New York City in 1977; Tucker's article appeared in Harper's that December).
"John B. Oakes, now senior editor of the New York Times; Walter Brown, director of the National Electric Reliability Council; and Rod Vandivert (a former advertising executive who handled PR for the opposition group Scenic Hudson) all agree on that.
"After all, that was what the plant was designed (italics in the original) to do. City officials investigating the power failure said they were amazed to learn that 'the generating capacity was available, they just couldn't bring it up in time.'
"Con Ed, of course, had been saying that for 15 years. The city investigation found that the crucial loss of power didn't occur until the last two lines from the north failed because they became overloaded carrying 2 million kilowatts.
"The lines from Storm King, which were to run along the same corridor, were designed to carry 2 million kilowatts."
Magical Eye [Member] writes:
Jack you are a joke. How desperate can you be? And I suppose you would also sell off the art of the old masters for your kilowatts of electricity. Fortunately your shallow values are not the rule.
Little Fish, Th. D. [Visitor] writes:
Jack,
Did you have to sing these songs at Cape Wind Camp;
Come with me
And you'll be
In a world of
Pure imagination
Take a look
And you'll see
Into your imagination
We'll begin
With a spin
Traveling in
The world of my creation
What we'll see
Will defy
Explanation
If you want to view paradise
Simply look around and view it
Anything you want to, do it
Wanta change the world?
There's nothing
To it
or was it
Who can take tomorrow
Dip it in a dream
Seperate the sorrow
And collect up all the cream?
Who can make statistics
cover up the truth
forget about logistics and never show the truth
The CANDY MAN
Oompa Loompa, doompadee doo
We have a perfect puzzle for you
Oompa Loompa, doompadee dee
If you are wise you will listen to me
What makes you think that this project is right
Can't you catch wind on another site?
It's in the investment and not in the wind
Jim Gordon knows it
that's - the - spin
Oompa Loompa, doompadee dah
If you're not greedy you will go far
You will live in happiness too
Like the Oompa Loompa doompadee do
Did you have to sing these songs at Cape Wind Camp;
Come with me
And you'll be
In a world of
Pure imagination
Take a look
And you'll see
Into your imagination
We'll begin
With a spin
Traveling in
The world of my creation
What we'll see
Will defy
Explanation
If you want to view paradise
Simply look around and view it
Anything you want to, do it
Wanta change the world?
There's nothing
To it
or was it
Who can take tomorrow
Dip it in a dream
Seperate the sorrow
And collect up all the cream?
Who can make statistics
cover up the truth
forget about logistics and never show the truth
The CANDY MAN
Oompa Loompa, doompadee doo
We have a perfect puzzle for you
Oompa Loompa, doompadee dee
If you are wise you will listen to me
What makes you think that this project is right
Can't you catch wind on another site?
It's in the investment and not in the wind
Jim Gordon knows it
that's - the - spin
Oompa Loompa, doompadee dah
If you're not greedy you will go far
You will live in happiness too
Like the Oompa Loompa doompadee do
Great Gadfly [Visitor] writes:
CC Today strikes again! Let us not argue the wind farm issue on its merits...let us instead villify anyone who opposes it as wealthy, rapacious, stupid, vile and now idle. Gee, and let's quote some antique Marxist thinker from nineteenth century Europe to accomplish this amazing slander. What, then, do we make of the idle rich who support whales, birds, seals, the Sierra Club, the Democratic National Committee, etc.?
I work for an hourly wage, cannot afford to own a home on the Cape and admit to being both Irish and catholic...do I qualify as idle and/or rich? And, I oppose the plans Cape Wind has for Nantucket Sound. Walter, you are loosing me as a fan with your snyde, nasty, condescending tactics. You are capable of better discourse, are you not? What is it you so despise about other people's wealth...that it is not yours? How would you like me to take a guess at your actual net worth and start every statement in opposition to you by laying out your own finacial status?
"Walter Brooks who lives in Harwich with a glorious ocean view sold his successful company for...?"
I work for an hourly wage, cannot afford to own a home on the Cape and admit to being both Irish and catholic...do I qualify as idle and/or rich? And, I oppose the plans Cape Wind has for Nantucket Sound. Walter, you are loosing me as a fan with your snyde, nasty, condescending tactics. You are capable of better discourse, are you not? What is it you so despise about other people's wealth...that it is not yours? How would you like me to take a guess at your actual net worth and start every statement in opposition to you by laying out your own finacial status?
"Walter Brooks who lives in Harwich with a glorious ocean view sold his successful company for...?"
Maverick [Visitor] writes:
Little Fish...thanks
Reminded me of my counselor days with underprivileged diabetic kids from Philadelphia at Camp Firefly.
We should have gone to " Camp Greed " with Jim G and then maybe we could understand his motives and why profits are more important than Nantucket Sound.
Reminded me of my counselor days with underprivileged diabetic kids from Philadelphia at Camp Firefly.
We should have gone to " Camp Greed " with Jim G and then maybe we could understand his motives and why profits are more important than Nantucket Sound.
Great Gadfly [Visitor] writes:
By the Way, Blogfather-
One of the most likely methods Jim Gordon has available for financing the wind farm is to sell off partnership shares in his venture to a limited number of investors. If these investors are individuals they must be "individuals of substance" as defined by federal law. These are defined as people who individually have at least one million doallars in disposable capital for risk. It sounds to me as if Gordon should start looking around for memebres of the yachting clas at least, and perhaps even of the leisure class. Just remember when you make your nasty little remarks about the wealthy...without them and their investment bankers Cape Wind is going nowhere.
"Walter Brooks made his fortune from surprisinglu small pub lications featuring homey Cape Cod advertisements and discount coupons. Today in his mid seventies he oversees a family business which will probably make his grandchildren members of the leisure class. While Brooks is no Bill Koch, neither is he a pauper. In fact, he once proclaimed himself "....the richest Marxist on Cape Cod."
One of the most likely methods Jim Gordon has available for financing the wind farm is to sell off partnership shares in his venture to a limited number of investors. If these investors are individuals they must be "individuals of substance" as defined by federal law. These are defined as people who individually have at least one million doallars in disposable capital for risk. It sounds to me as if Gordon should start looking around for memebres of the yachting clas at least, and perhaps even of the leisure class. Just remember when you make your nasty little remarks about the wealthy...without them and their investment bankers Cape Wind is going nowhere.
"Walter Brooks made his fortune from surprisinglu small pub lications featuring homey Cape Cod advertisements and discount coupons. Today in his mid seventies he oversees a family business which will probably make his grandchildren members of the leisure class. While Brooks is no Bill Koch, neither is he a pauper. In fact, he once proclaimed himself "....the richest Marxist on Cape Cod."
Maverick [Visitor] writes:
GG...I am just another Irish Catholic.
Not idle or rich. My bride and a few other beautiful people have loved me in my day.
Could care less about WB, Jack C, Tip O', PP, SP or anyone else that holds themselves holier than thou.
I care about the residents of Cape Cod and the inhabitants of Nantucket Sound.
Not idle or rich. My bride and a few other beautiful people have loved me in my day.
Could care less about WB, Jack C, Tip O', PP, SP or anyone else that holds themselves holier than thou.
I care about the residents of Cape Cod and the inhabitants of Nantucket Sound.
Jack Coleman [Member] writes:
Still so little in response to Veblen's actual observations about the leisure class, which is not the same as the wealthy.
Wonder why that is, and why the veins are bulging even more than usual in the necks of Cape Wind's opponents.
Wonder why that is, and why the veins are bulging even more than usual in the necks of Cape Wind's opponents.
Quill Picker [Visitor] writes:
Jack,
This Veblin blog is at best tangental to the real arguement of why we should ruin Nantucket Sound just to:
1. give a millionaire another $270 Million in tax credits
2. Build a project that will raise our electric bills even higher
3.Provide a target for planes, boats and birds to try and miss. And on...
Can we move on?
This Veblin blog is at best tangental to the real arguement of why we should ruin Nantucket Sound just to:
1. give a millionaire another $270 Million in tax credits
2. Build a project that will raise our electric bills even higher
3.Provide a target for planes, boats and birds to try and miss. And on...
Can we move on?
Maverick [Visitor] writes:
Jack C...our veins are bulging because you and your arguments are an insult to all concerned citizens on Cape Cod.
Quill Picker said it best... " can we move on "
Quill Picker said it best... " can we move on "
Magical Eye [Member] writes:
Quill Picker and all how about we move on to my latest blog post on Against the Wind... a tribute to wealth and vision, the saving of storm king mountain and its significance today on the Cape. Jack and Walter are wasting our time with the obtuse.
Maverick [Visitor] writes:
Jack C...Please! No more platitudes, proverbs, poetry, philosophical diatribes or observations about the leisure class.
Instead of talking about mega watts, voltage or whatever that makes my hair stand on end and scares my bride please mention dredging and the damage that will occur from P'town to Woods Hole.
That would be honest journalism. Think your up to it?
Instead of talking about mega watts, voltage or whatever that makes my hair stand on end and scares my bride please mention dredging and the damage that will occur from P'town to Woods Hole.
That would be honest journalism. Think your up to it?
Magical Eye [Member] writes:
Jack and honest journalism now that's an oxymoron if I ever heard one!
Little Fish, Th. D. [Visitor] writes:
No Jack... if there are indeed veins bulging that is a sure sign that a heart is actually beating, I don't suppose you get that too often.
Jack Coleman [Member] writes:
Wow - 72 comments so far, most from opponents of Cape Wind - and not a single one yet with anything to say about Veblen's still relevant observations. Amazing.
No, instead of addressing Veblen's observations, we'll just insult the blogger with the gall to bring them to our attention and cause our most current discomfort. That'll show him!
And rather than call further attention to our failure to address Veblen's obsrvations, we'll just ... ah ... move on ... yes! No point indeed in calling any more attention than necessary to our failure to do more than sputter in anger with the veins in our necks bulging far more than needed for a pulse.
Not that anyone noticed any of this, mind you.
No, instead of addressing Veblen's observations, we'll just insult the blogger with the gall to bring them to our attention and cause our most current discomfort. That'll show him!
And rather than call further attention to our failure to address Veblen's obsrvations, we'll just ... ah ... move on ... yes! No point indeed in calling any more attention than necessary to our failure to do more than sputter in anger with the veins in our necks bulging far more than needed for a pulse.
Not that anyone noticed any of this, mind you.
Little Fish, Th. D. [Visitor] writes:
Just another dead guy that said somethings and then took a dirt nap.
He talk about "captains of industry" being like their militant predatory ancestors...
"eager to exploit the underlying population as had been their medieval ancestors. The price system in which businessmen and speculators were involved only hampered and impeded the system of industrial arts and so delayed the forward course of mankind's evolutionary advancement. The differential income businessmen derive from their position in the price system is far from a reward for creative entrepreneurship but rather a ransom exacted from the underlying productive population."
but you didn't cut and paste that.
Last we looked he's still dead, get over it.
He talk about "captains of industry" being like their militant predatory ancestors...
"eager to exploit the underlying population as had been their medieval ancestors. The price system in which businessmen and speculators were involved only hampered and impeded the system of industrial arts and so delayed the forward course of mankind's evolutionary advancement. The differential income businessmen derive from their position in the price system is far from a reward for creative entrepreneurship but rather a ransom exacted from the underlying productive population."
but you didn't cut and paste that.
Last we looked he's still dead, get over it.
Little Fish, Th. D. [Visitor] writes:
Jack I would think a blogger's greatest insult is to have nobody comment at all. You can tell when that is happening they say things like...
(hold on gotta cut and paste)
"not a single one yet with anything to say about Veblen's still relevant observations."
Now Walter's not complaining cause I doubt if he is insulted by any of this. Unless of course you have more than one "puppet master" throwing their voice through you.
Blogeto, ergo sum,
I blog, therefore I am.
Now there's the smartest guy in the room. No matter how this turns out he is getting paid everyday for keeping this up, and of course if the wind doesn't blow Cape Wind's way he can always simply say
"ego eram quoque festinus, ego non operor meus domus opus"
Rough Translation:
"I was too hasty, I didn't do my home work"
(hold on gotta cut and paste)
"not a single one yet with anything to say about Veblen's still relevant observations."
Now Walter's not complaining cause I doubt if he is insulted by any of this. Unless of course you have more than one "puppet master" throwing their voice through you.
Blogeto, ergo sum,
I blog, therefore I am.
Now there's the smartest guy in the room. No matter how this turns out he is getting paid everyday for keeping this up, and of course if the wind doesn't blow Cape Wind's way he can always simply say
"ego eram quoque festinus, ego non operor meus domus opus"
Rough Translation:
"I was too hasty, I didn't do my home work"
Quill Picker [Visitor] writes:
Jack,
Picture yourself as a salmon swimming upstream, struggling, with veins bulging, trying to get to the spawning grounds of Cape Wind's vision of Nantucket Sound. Suddenly, a black bear(representing the anti-wind majority of Cape Codders)scoops you out of the water and has you for lunch. That is our vision of your chances of success.
Now that's what I'm talkin' about.
Bon apetit!
Picture yourself as a salmon swimming upstream, struggling, with veins bulging, trying to get to the spawning grounds of Cape Wind's vision of Nantucket Sound. Suddenly, a black bear(representing the anti-wind majority of Cape Codders)scoops you out of the water and has you for lunch. That is our vision of your chances of success.
Now that's what I'm talkin' about.
Bon apetit!
Magical Eye [Member] writes:
Quill Picker... I like the way you think! :)
Jack Coleman [Member] writes:
Just out of curiosity, why did Con Ed want to build the Storm King plant anyway? William Tucker's article in Harper's explains the rationale -
Con Ed officials believed the plant "would offer three major advantages to its electrical system.
"First, it would solve the problem of peaking power at bargain rates. For an investment of only $121 million, Con Ed would be able to increase its capacity of 5.5 million kilowatts by more than 33 percent, enough to carry it through to 1969.
"Building the same capacity with fossil fuel or nuclear plants would cost more than $200 million.
"Second, the Storm King plant would create greater efficiencies in Con Ed's existing systems. Instead of adding new generating capacity, it would use existing capacity more efficiently. Coal- and oil-burning plants could be operated at higher levels and would consume less fuel per kilowatt, just as cars burn gas more efficiently at 55 miles per hour. Con Ed would be able to retire four of its oldest, least efficient plants."
Con Ed officials believed the plant "would offer three major advantages to its electrical system.
"First, it would solve the problem of peaking power at bargain rates. For an investment of only $121 million, Con Ed would be able to increase its capacity of 5.5 million kilowatts by more than 33 percent, enough to carry it through to 1969.
"Building the same capacity with fossil fuel or nuclear plants would cost more than $200 million.
"Second, the Storm King plant would create greater efficiencies in Con Ed's existing systems. Instead of adding new generating capacity, it would use existing capacity more efficiently. Coal- and oil-burning plants could be operated at higher levels and would consume less fuel per kilowatt, just as cars burn gas more efficiently at 55 miles per hour. Con Ed would be able to retire four of its oldest, least efficient plants."
Fishin\" for Answers [Visitor] writes:
Magical,
Seems I was inaccurate. It was an Alaskan bear that had the salmon for lunch.
Seems I was inaccurate. It was an Alaskan bear that had the salmon for lunch.
Anonymous [Visitor] writes:
Phew... Jack, glad I've been busy moving etc. to blog on... This Veblen talk & such much too high-brow / intellectual thinking for me!
You did a commendable job in trying to make a few points... Of course, are lost on the appetites of the 'power hungry'. I admire your stamina.
Great news to see that the dirty dealings have become a national issue... The *hit will really begin to hit the 'turbine'... In congress.
The real battle is just beginning... I can't wait. This will be history in the making.
Maverick... Thanks for the tip on the "horseradish"! Looking forward to the first blues heading our way... Keep us posted please...
Of course, I think they would get here much sooner if there was a nice habitat like the 'Wind Park' to attract them! ;~)
Yeah, I know what you mean... I "blew it" many times over as well. What a dummie back then... But what fun!
Hey... Still got the health & opportunitys are ALWAYS there... Just gotta go for it.
Whats for lunch?
You did a commendable job in trying to make a few points... Of course, are lost on the appetites of the 'power hungry'. I admire your stamina.
Great news to see that the dirty dealings have become a national issue... The *hit will really begin to hit the 'turbine'... In congress.
The real battle is just beginning... I can't wait. This will be history in the making.
Maverick... Thanks for the tip on the "horseradish"! Looking forward to the first blues heading our way... Keep us posted please...
Of course, I think they would get here much sooner if there was a nice habitat like the 'Wind Park' to attract them! ;~)
Yeah, I know what you mean... I "blew it" many times over as well. What a dummie back then... But what fun!
Hey... Still got the health & opportunitys are ALWAYS there... Just gotta go for it.
Whats for lunch?
Anonymous [Visitor] writes:
P.s. - Lost my 'id' again... What's next? It was S.P.
Jack Coleman [Member] writes:
Thanks for the praise about stamina, Anonymous. More praise is due Frank Shorter and Bill Rodgers for hooking me on running way back when. Takes a lot of work, but gives back more. As with anything worthwhile, like making the transition to renewables. Runners know this intuitively. There are always many more miles to go.
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About This Blog
Blogeto, ergo sum.
I blog, therefore I am.
Walter Brooks is the cctoday publisher & editor and a lifelong journalist who has worked in media on Cape Cod since '65.
Julie Brooks is the president & founder of eCape.com. She is Walter's daughter-in-law.
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- Oscar Wilde