44.0°F Fair [Forecast]
:: Saturday, November 21st, 2009Against the Wind
Devoted to informing people about choices for wiser decision-making concerning wind power with the hope that they might find a needed balance to pro-wind arguments, some answers to questions and information on things people can do to helpPlease visit these local CapeCodToday sponsors:
John M. Janiak, Attorney at Law
With more than 30 years of private practice, John concentrates on all areas of real estate law, Wills and Trusts and the settlement of estates and organizes and provides advice to corporations and other business organizations.
With more than 30 years of private practice, John concentrates on all areas of real estate law, Wills and Trusts and the settlement of estates and organizes and provides advice to corporations and other business organizations.
Color Me Mine
At Color Me Mine we feel it is important for children to learn about and experience the arts. We are committed to providing a forum for kids to express their creativity, to relax, have some fun and learn in a creative and pressure-free environment. (Mashpee)
At Color Me Mine we feel it is important for children to learn about and experience the arts. We are committed to providing a forum for kids to express their creativity, to relax, have some fun and learn in a creative and pressure-free environment. (Mashpee)
Congratulations APNS and all of the good people who just say NO!
04/14/06 · 8:24 pm :: posted by Magical Eye
Two incredibly satisfying victories in one week... how wonderful is this? The amendment to the Coast Guard Bill and the overwhelmingly NO vote on Nantucket Island. Bless you all, who worked so hard and who care so much, to make this happen.
Cape Wind is seeing, maybe for the first time, that there are people who are not only not buying Cape Wind's marketing hype but have some power to stop them. Amen.
This, just say no vote, is practically unheard of when it comes to developers... since what the developer counts on is people not having enough staying power, much less money to stop them. They simply wear the people down, have expensive lawyers, people tire, become depressed, run out of money and go away and the developer gets what he wants. And anyone who has ever attempted to fight the good fight knows this. I have seen it so many times. But, in the rare instances when the people stand up, say NO and fight baack... well, my heart just sings. Thank you!!!
Congratulations to the Alliance to Protect Nantucket Sound, Windstop.org and all of those generous human beings who just say NO! You not only have put your money, your time and your hard work where your mouth is but you have done it for all of us. We never could have done it without you.
BRAVO!
Photo credit: Counter Wind Blog
Please call or write to our Senators and Congress men and women to let them know you are opposed to Cape Wind and support the Stevens Amendment.
Click here for the Senate
Click here for the Congress
164 comments
Blog posts and comments are entirely the thoughts and ideas of the people who write them and in no way represent the views of CapeCodToday.com, eCape, Inc., or its employees or owners.
Magical Eye [Member] writes:
Does 'does just say no' sound familiar Jack? For good reason?
Jack Coleman [Member] writes:
How clever, Magical - answering the question by repeating it. The phrase sounds familiar because it was just as trite when invoked 20 years ago to fight drug abuse.
Then again it's an emblematic slogan for naysayers - as opposed to "just say know."
Then again it's an emblematic slogan for naysayers - as opposed to "just say know."
Magical Eye [Member] writes:
Actually Jack it is a classic. But I don't think the phrase is what bothers you, is it? As to the No vote, we both know it was non binding.
Anonymous [Visitor] writes:
Jack,
Would you be less upset if "...maybe" was one of the ballot choices?
Would you be less upset if "...maybe" was one of the ballot choices?
Jack Coleman [Member] writes:
That you consider a trite cliche a classic does not surprise me, Magical. I notice you sidestepped the first comment I posted. Did it bother you or something?
Magical Eye [Member] writes:
Jack, you would so love to bother me but you don't. I like to consider the source before I allow myself to be bothered by most things. Having gotten to know your MO, your observations no longer do much more than amuse me now.
Anonymous [Visitor] writes:
Same goes for me Magical. Jack is always pouting about something, isn't he?
Jack Coleman [Member] writes:
Magical, if the residents of Sandwich had voted on whether to allow a power plant in their town, do you think it would have passed? How about the residents of Somerset voting on Brayton Point or Plymouth residents voting on Pilgrim?
Magical Eye [Member] writes:
How about it Jack? I have no idea. What is your point?
Jack Coleman [Member] writes:
Should energy projects be decided by ballot question in local elections?
Little Fish, Th. D. (aka KID SHELLEEN) [Visitor] writes:
Jack (also known to my people as Dances in Circles)
Mind if I cut in?
Were you one of the 5 "rather large men" that SPECK claims he has to drive around in that BIG FORD EXPEDITION SUV? How come you are not protesting his choice to drive a "gas guzzler" like that. He says he paid $27,000 for it 3 yrs ago... well a 2006 electric HYBRID Ford EsCAPE WINDs up selling for about $28,525.00.
Should vehicle choices be decided by what a person says or what he does and is there a reason you are not joining me in calling him a hypocrite? You had no probably making that point about Bobby.
For God sake why doesn't he just run a hose from his exhaust pipe into our children's bedrooms and killing... oh the HUMANTITY.....
How's that for scaring people and trying to make them feel guilty?
“Too bad you can't buy a voodoo globe so that you could make the earth spin real fast and freak everybody out.” - JACK HANDY
Mind if I cut in?
Were you one of the 5 "rather large men" that SPECK claims he has to drive around in that BIG FORD EXPEDITION SUV? How come you are not protesting his choice to drive a "gas guzzler" like that. He says he paid $27,000 for it 3 yrs ago... well a 2006 electric HYBRID Ford EsCAPE WINDs up selling for about $28,525.00.
Should vehicle choices be decided by what a person says or what he does and is there a reason you are not joining me in calling him a hypocrite? You had no probably making that point about Bobby.
For God sake why doesn't he just run a hose from his exhaust pipe into our children's bedrooms and killing... oh the HUMANTITY.....
How's that for scaring people and trying to make them feel guilty?
“Too bad you can't buy a voodoo globe so that you could make the earth spin real fast and freak everybody out.” - JACK HANDY
Magical Eye [Member] writes:
That is your question Jack but what is your point?
Reality Eye [Visitor] writes:
I said it before, have a state wide vote and be done with it. People in the rest of mass support the wind farm 6 to 1. Nantucket does not speak for the rest of Massachusetts. If cape wind does not get built then another power plant will be built in somewhere else in Mass. Everyone in the state should have a say on the wind farm, not just Nantucket Islanders.
BTW fish, I think Mr. Peckham already explained himself. The SUV is a work truck. I dont think Mr. Peckam would get much done doing many trips in a honda insight. He needs to move a lot of material in one shot, he is acually saving gas.
I have more respect for Mr. Peckham than the rest of you NIMBYs. He has a business with many people depending on him. Most of the NIMBYs on this site only have birds accountable to them.
BTW fish, I think Mr. Peckham already explained himself. The SUV is a work truck. I dont think Mr. Peckam would get much done doing many trips in a honda insight. He needs to move a lot of material in one shot, he is acually saving gas.
I have more respect for Mr. Peckham than the rest of you NIMBYs. He has a business with many people depending on him. Most of the NIMBYs on this site only have birds accountable to them.
Rhode Islander [Visitor] writes:
Jack,
If the results had gone the other way, I'm certain you'd be saying;
"...local residents have spoken, and their approval of the project needs to be considered..."
The registered voters of Nantucket did 'speak,' and they don't approve of Cape Wind.
Get over it.
If the results had gone the other way, I'm certain you'd be saying;
"...local residents have spoken, and their approval of the project needs to be considered..."
The registered voters of Nantucket did 'speak,' and they don't approve of Cape Wind.
Get over it.
Magical Eye [Member] writes:
Agree Rhode Islander. Get over it Jack. What I would like to know is where that 6-1 approval comes from...
Reality Eye [Visitor] writes:
The 6 to 1 comes from the latest UMASS poll done state wide. This info is available on www.capecodtoday.com. It's a good website Magical Eye, you should check it out. (I take it your are playing dumb).
You can argue the polls, nantucket votes, etc. all day. There needs to be a statewide vote, this is the only way everyone will be happy. This issue is being played, on both sides, by a few powerful people. I'm sick of this. Let the people of Mass vote on this in a referendum.
You can argue the polls, nantucket votes, etc. all day. There needs to be a statewide vote, this is the only way everyone will be happy. This issue is being played, on both sides, by a few powerful people. I'm sick of this. Let the people of Mass vote on this in a referendum.
Jack Coleman [Member] writes:
Perhaps you'd do well to follow your own advice, Rhode Islander. Winning a battle doesn't mean you've won the war. And try not to let the bubbly go to your head, as it has for Magical.
Magical, with every disingenuous two-step you demonstrate how this is an awkward question for you. Let me try to help - yes, we could decide by ballot question in local elections whether energy projects should be built - and none ever would.
Any reason why you have such difficulty accepting this?
Magical, with every disingenuous two-step you demonstrate how this is an awkward question for you. Let me try to help - yes, we could decide by ballot question in local elections whether energy projects should be built - and none ever would.
Any reason why you have such difficulty accepting this?
Anonymous [Visitor] writes:
Magical:
I was helping Jules of APNS to break down signs the morning after the 2 to 1 vote against the Cape Wind project. A man walking by stopped to offer his congratulations. I asked him, "Why did you vote against the placement of Cape Wind in the Sound?"
He responded, "The federal government subsidizes this private business with our money. Their private enterprise would not make it without that subsidy. And, it just doesn't belong in Nantucket Sound."
I was left with the impression that he had never been in a position to accept government subsidy for his business interest(s), and that he liked it that way.
You're right, Magical, Nantucket residents deserve credit for their loud and clear response to Cape Wind, "NO."
I was helping Jules of APNS to break down signs the morning after the 2 to 1 vote against the Cape Wind project. A man walking by stopped to offer his congratulations. I asked him, "Why did you vote against the placement of Cape Wind in the Sound?"
He responded, "The federal government subsidizes this private business with our money. Their private enterprise would not make it without that subsidy. And, it just doesn't belong in Nantucket Sound."
I was left with the impression that he had never been in a position to accept government subsidy for his business interest(s), and that he liked it that way.
You're right, Magical, Nantucket residents deserve credit for their loud and clear response to Cape Wind, "NO."
Magical Eye [Member] writes:
Jack, you asked 'should'... not 'could'.
Barbara Durkin [Visitor] writes:
Magical:
I commented as "Anonymous" unintentionally. "I was helping Jules...," was my comment :)
I commented as "Anonymous" unintentionally. "I was helping Jules...," was my comment :)
Little Fish, Th. D. (aka KID SHELLEEN) [Visitor] writes:
Realty Eye (which is what my people call you in reality if you believe this is the only piece of real estate that can be used for this project then that is all you will see too)
Thanks for calling me a NIMBY because even residing here in NY, any plan to do anything with Federal Waters makes it my back yard and my business.
I asked Jack the question if you don't mind. He's a big boy and he can handle responses to my questions directed to him. So hold you water.
As to what you have to say for what it is worth I'll answer you when you settle on an identity. SPECK has not answer MY question to MY satisfaction. If the wool is pulled over your reality that is just the kind of sheep you are.
And my NIMBY is bigger and better than yours. Yours is my new catch phrase for people like you...
NIMBY "NOBODY IN MIND BUT YOURSELF"!!!!!!!!!!
Thanks for calling me a NIMBY because even residing here in NY, any plan to do anything with Federal Waters makes it my back yard and my business.
I asked Jack the question if you don't mind. He's a big boy and he can handle responses to my questions directed to him. So hold you water.
As to what you have to say for what it is worth I'll answer you when you settle on an identity. SPECK has not answer MY question to MY satisfaction. If the wool is pulled over your reality that is just the kind of sheep you are.
And my NIMBY is bigger and better than yours. Yours is my new catch phrase for people like you...
NIMBY "NOBODY IN MIND BUT YOURSELF"!!!!!!!!!!
Magical Eye [Member] writes:
Wish I could have been there Barbara. How gratifying it must have been for the People's voices to have been heard and recorded as opposed to the so called 'unbiased' surveys. There can be no question at all as to how the residents of Nantucket feel about having 24 square miles of their Sound taken over by a private developer with 130, 417 foot tall wind turbines and a ten story high transformer. Amen.
Little Fish, Th. D. (aka KID SHELLEEN) [Visitor] writes:
Barbara,
Excellent job out there, standing up as a "nay sayer" in the face of the "sooth sayers" that seem to think they can predict the future. Better check their crystal balls again. We can see right through them why can't they.
Must be that are looking to see some "green" but not as used in the energy sense.
Imagine the nerve of somebody to try and tell me that making money justifies being an out right hypocrite.
but I digress.
Good Job Barbara that's showing 'em...
Excellent job out there, standing up as a "nay sayer" in the face of the "sooth sayers" that seem to think they can predict the future. Better check their crystal balls again. We can see right through them why can't they.
Must be that are looking to see some "green" but not as used in the energy sense.
Imagine the nerve of somebody to try and tell me that making money justifies being an out right hypocrite.
but I digress.
Good Job Barbara that's showing 'em...
Little Fish, Th. D. (aka KID SHELLEEN) [Visitor] writes:
Statewide vote? It's not the State's water/property! Let the Feds decide which is what they are planning to do. Be glad they are offering a choice to allow your Governor to heed the will of the people. I don't think he'll use an "unbiased scientific journal" like www.capecodtoday.com to make his mind up.
It's called "Reality". Deal with it.
It's called "Reality". Deal with it.
Barbara Durkin [Visitor] writes:
Little Fish:
Thank you, it was such a pleasure to be on the island, especially when the votes were tallied, and the landslide result against Cape Wind was announced.
I wish that you were there, too, Magical. I know that you were there in spirit, when the "nay sayers" responded to the "sooth sayers." The residents of Nantucket have answered Cape Wind and friends' tactics, and hyperbole.
They came out to vote against this industrial project, in numbers.
Thank you, it was such a pleasure to be on the island, especially when the votes were tallied, and the landslide result against Cape Wind was announced.
I wish that you were there, too, Magical. I know that you were there in spirit, when the "nay sayers" responded to the "sooth sayers." The residents of Nantucket have answered Cape Wind and friends' tactics, and hyperbole.
They came out to vote against this industrial project, in numbers.
Reality Eye [Visitor] writes:
I guess if you look at things through a magical eye you can't see that cape wind is a needed source of energy. If that's the way you all see it, I pity you.
Jack Coleman [Member] writes:
Thanks for clarifying that, Magical. It's not a question of whether we "could" decide on energy proposals by ballot question - it's hardly beyond the realm of possibility. The question is whether we "should" decide on that basis. Clearly you have difficulty answering this, seeing how you've only had since last night, when you posted you first comment in response, to think about it.
Magical Eye [Member] writes:
Hey Jack, do you know how to keep an ass in suspense? I'll tell you later.
Magical Eye [Member] writes:
Governor Romney has my vote. :)
Little Fish, Th. D. (aka KID SHELLEEN) [Visitor] writes:
President Rommney will get mine!
KMA [Visitor] writes:
Funny, those Nantucketer's had no problem decimating the whale population to keep their lanterns lit. And those lanterns were not very energy efficient, they only burned three hours to the gallon.
Not only are they against the wind farm, now they're banning chain stores. That means you'll have to take a ferry to New Bedford if you want a Crispy Creme donut. What's next? Banning Scrimshaw?
Sorry, I couldn't resist. Just thought I'd add a little levity.
Not only are they against the wind farm, now they're banning chain stores. That means you'll have to take a ferry to New Bedford if you want a Crispy Creme donut. What's next? Banning Scrimshaw?
Sorry, I couldn't resist. Just thought I'd add a little levity.
Maverick [Visitor] writes:
Good Folks...do my friends in Nantucket Sound have a vote?
The shearwaters, terns, gulls, chickens and all the others that fisherman have grown to love.
Not to mention all the migratory waterfowl.
And how about the whales , seals, porpoise and every other mammal?
Of course, we can't forget all the fish that consider this home.
They were here first. Do they have a vote or are they just fodder for our destruction of the planet?
The shearwaters, terns, gulls, chickens and all the others that fisherman have grown to love.
Not to mention all the migratory waterfowl.
And how about the whales , seals, porpoise and every other mammal?
Of course, we can't forget all the fish that consider this home.
They were here first. Do they have a vote or are they just fodder for our destruction of the planet?
Magical Eye [Member] writes:
Maverick, good point! They do not deserve to be sacrificed for human waste and greed.
Rhode Islander [Visitor] writes:
KMA,
You are a bit behind on things. Shrimshaw was banned, a long time ago.
"Sperm Whale Ivory - The Law:"
"The Sperm Whale is an endangered species protected by the Marine Mammal Protection Act; importation of whale products for commercial purposes has been prohibited since 1973. Pre-act whale teeth can be sold intrastate as long as state law does not prohibit it. Scrimshaw artists and collectors acquire pre-act teeth from estate sales, auctions, and antique dealers."
http://www.scrimshanders.com/Pages/about/ivory.html
You are a bit behind on things. Shrimshaw was banned, a long time ago.
"Sperm Whale Ivory - The Law:"
"The Sperm Whale is an endangered species protected by the Marine Mammal Protection Act; importation of whale products for commercial purposes has been prohibited since 1973. Pre-act whale teeth can be sold intrastate as long as state law does not prohibit it. Scrimshaw artists and collectors acquire pre-act teeth from estate sales, auctions, and antique dealers."
http://www.scrimshanders.com/Pages/about/ivory.html
Little Fish, Th. D. (aka KID SHELLEEN) [Visitor] writes:
I know don't ya just... love it?
Barbara Durkin [Visitor] writes:
Nice job, Rhode Islander, you really do your homework. You reminded me of another issue related to the mammals of Nantucket Sound.
According to the federal Marine Mammal Commission:
"There is little doubt that activities associated with the proposed action, particularly the use of pile drivers for tower construction, will result in the taking of marine mammals by harassment.”
I wonder what the project proponents have done to meet the incidental take
provisions of section 101(a)(5) of the Marine Mammal Protection Act?
If wildlife had a vote, Maverick, we wouldn’t be having this discussion. I am very grateful to you for reminding people of the harm that would come to fish and animals if Cape Wind's permit application is approved. You clearly recognize the arrogance of men who would destroy their habitat, cause them harm, and kill them by the thousands while chasing this fairy tale, (Grimm's).
According to the federal Marine Mammal Commission:
"There is little doubt that activities associated with the proposed action, particularly the use of pile drivers for tower construction, will result in the taking of marine mammals by harassment.”
I wonder what the project proponents have done to meet the incidental take
provisions of section 101(a)(5) of the Marine Mammal Protection Act?
If wildlife had a vote, Maverick, we wouldn’t be having this discussion. I am very grateful to you for reminding people of the harm that would come to fish and animals if Cape Wind's permit application is approved. You clearly recognize the arrogance of men who would destroy their habitat, cause them harm, and kill them by the thousands while chasing this fairy tale, (Grimm's).
KMA [Visitor] writes:
Barbara,
I'm confused, when you speak of the "harm that would come to the fish" are you saying that fishing should be banned?
I'm confused, when you speak of the "harm that would come to the fish" are you saying that fishing should be banned?
Maverick [Visitor] writes:
KMA...Love you and consider you a friend.
Leatherback Turtles! That have been on this planet for thousands and thousands of years. Now they are predicting they could be extinct within thirty years in the Pacific.
Please get a grip. This has nothing to do with Cape Wind. This is a Global problem and CW has nothing to do with the solution.
I left the blogs but certain comments incense me to the point I have to say something.
The runoff of polluted waste water and high temperatures killed million's of mollusks in Narragansett Bay last year.
These clams, etc cleansed the Bay and now they are gone.
Instead of debating a failed wind factory in the Sound why aren't we talking about a total solution to save the planet.
You folks are only concerned about yourselves and the hell with the balance of nature.
That is why we will all be extinct in a short period of time.
Black, White, Asian, Arabic, etc? Forget religion, ideology, democrat, republican and all the rest of the crap.
Please wake up! For the sake of all God's children that follow.
Leatherback Turtles! That have been on this planet for thousands and thousands of years. Now they are predicting they could be extinct within thirty years in the Pacific.
Please get a grip. This has nothing to do with Cape Wind. This is a Global problem and CW has nothing to do with the solution.
I left the blogs but certain comments incense me to the point I have to say something.
The runoff of polluted waste water and high temperatures killed million's of mollusks in Narragansett Bay last year.
These clams, etc cleansed the Bay and now they are gone.
Instead of debating a failed wind factory in the Sound why aren't we talking about a total solution to save the planet.
You folks are only concerned about yourselves and the hell with the balance of nature.
That is why we will all be extinct in a short period of time.
Black, White, Asian, Arabic, etc? Forget religion, ideology, democrat, republican and all the rest of the crap.
Please wake up! For the sake of all God's children that follow.
bugsy [Visitor] writes:
Happy holidays!
The season is upon us! Go out side and breath some fresh air.
Best wishes to all!
The season is upon us! Go out side and breath some fresh air.
Best wishes to all!
bugsy [Visitor] writes:
oh..and congrats to a fab week. Cape Wind is toast. Let's find a new alternative.
Magical Eagle Eye [Visitor] writes:
Gas at near $3.00 per gallon.
Iran building Nukes and threatening to wipe Israel of the map.
Romney running for president. There is no way he is killing cape wind. Dream on you NIMBYs. There is a big world out side of Cape Cod; take a look out of the Ivory Tower sometime.
Iran building Nukes and threatening to wipe Israel of the map.
Romney running for president. There is no way he is killing cape wind. Dream on you NIMBYs. There is a big world out side of Cape Cod; take a look out of the Ivory Tower sometime.
Maverick [Visitor] writes:
Magical Eagle Eye...Perfect handle.
MEE, MEE, MEE...sounds like the rest of Massachusetts.
That is why you pay such high taxes for so little in return.
Please take a look and ask why you are paying such high taxes.
MEE, MEE, MEE...sounds like the rest of Massachusetts.
That is why you pay such high taxes for so little in return.
Please take a look and ask why you are paying such high taxes.
Maverick [Visitor] writes:
MEE..." there is a big world out side of Cape Cod. "
You are correct....there is our planet, the solar system, and the universe.
As I look out of the Ivory Tower which would you like to debate first.
You are a fraud and a joke. Please tell me what Cape Wind is going to do to lower gas from near $3.00 per gallon.
You are correct....there is our planet, the solar system, and the universe.
As I look out of the Ivory Tower which would you like to debate first.
You are a fraud and a joke. Please tell me what Cape Wind is going to do to lower gas from near $3.00 per gallon.
Rhode Islander [Visitor] writes:
Great question for MEE, Maverick.
Don’t expect an answer- ever.
I hate to appear mean spirited, but in addition to be being a fraud and a joke, MEE is just another 'dupe' for Cape Wind.
He has lots of company.
http://www.answers.com/topic/dupe
"Dupe"
1. An easily deceived person.
2. A person who functions as the tool of another person or power.
Don’t expect an answer- ever.
I hate to appear mean spirited, but in addition to be being a fraud and a joke, MEE is just another 'dupe' for Cape Wind.
He has lots of company.
http://www.answers.com/topic/dupe
"Dupe"
1. An easily deceived person.
2. A person who functions as the tool of another person or power.
Little Fish, Th. D. (aka KID SHELLEEN) [Visitor] writes:
Maverick,
Love you man.
Some seem to forget that Earth, the living organism with an "immune system" will always will have the finally say. Warms and cools based on designs we puny humans could never conceive. We stand up on our hind legs and say "look what we have done and can do, good, bad or indifferent".
We've done nothing that this planet has not endured for billions of years except devise new ways to poison and kill the other living things and our own kind. Nature is never out of balance or control. The Earth "refuses" to be destroyed and I don't blame her.
Right now only two distinct known technologies can upset the balance of the planet. One can kill all life as we know it and render it uninhabitable for more years than we can fathom. The other will simply destroy all living things within it's range and leave no harm to the environment or the puny structures of man we marvel at. I'm sure everyone knows the first. I know I do. But I am also sure since the end of the Carter administration we have gone to sleep on the latter. Any care to guess what that may be?
Love you man.
Some seem to forget that Earth, the living organism with an "immune system" will always will have the finally say. Warms and cools based on designs we puny humans could never conceive. We stand up on our hind legs and say "look what we have done and can do, good, bad or indifferent".
We've done nothing that this planet has not endured for billions of years except devise new ways to poison and kill the other living things and our own kind. Nature is never out of balance or control. The Earth "refuses" to be destroyed and I don't blame her.
Right now only two distinct known technologies can upset the balance of the planet. One can kill all life as we know it and render it uninhabitable for more years than we can fathom. The other will simply destroy all living things within it's range and leave no harm to the environment or the puny structures of man we marvel at. I'm sure everyone knows the first. I know I do. But I am also sure since the end of the Carter administration we have gone to sleep on the latter. Any care to guess what that may be?
Magical Eagle Eye [Visitor] writes:
Magical Eye ...Perfect handle.
ME, ME, ME...sounds like the rest of Massachusetts.
That is why you pay such high taxes for so little in return.
Please take a look and ask why you are paying such high taxes.
LOL. You bunch of self important NIMBYs
ME, ME, ME...sounds like the rest of Massachusetts.
That is why you pay such high taxes for so little in return.
Please take a look and ask why you are paying such high taxes.
LOL. You bunch of self important NIMBYs
Little Fish in a BIG POND [Visitor] writes:
To all who celebrate a holiday season of their faith I wish you PEACE and the POWER to know it is all possible despite any opposition, thought against it or even for it. To those that suffered any LOSS I wish you and those that suffered along with you the STRENGTH to PERSEVERE on a path with heart and comfort. To all who made some GAIN recently I wish you WISDOM and VISION to keep a true perspective on it's meaning and worth. It is a brief and fleeting moment at best and will be forgotten long before you know it. To those who know LOVE I wish you the ability to grasp and hold on to what you have and that it continues to flourish in, towards and through you. To those that even for an instant or through any portion of their lifetime allow their hearts and minds to submit to ANGER, ENVY, DEJECTION, HATE, GREED, SELFISHNESS and FEAR I wish you MOST OF ALL... LOVE because only that will solve your problems.
It is'nt about the things we argue, but the fact we argue at all that wastes the only real source of renewable energy. Our hearts and minds. CLEAN, CLEAR and FREE.
GOOD NIGHT!
It is'nt about the things we argue, but the fact we argue at all that wastes the only real source of renewable energy. Our hearts and minds. CLEAN, CLEAR and FREE.
GOOD NIGHT!
Little Fish in a BIG POND [Visitor] writes:
Oh and to Magical Eagle Eye, trust me you give a bad name to any that you choose. For you I say "suffer beggar, the world is a ghetto". You can go to PLUPERFECT HELL and ring the bell.
But I mean that in the nicest way;)!!!!!!!
But I mean that in the nicest way;)!!!!!!!
Ryan [Visitor] writes:
I would like to point out to all the supposed environmentalists... Cape Wind is good for the environment! We need renewable energy, not coal and oil. As far as animal safety - the audoban society supports it... no need to worry about all the animals voting in the sound. If you all cared so much about them anyway, you'd have better luck in advocating the endless killing of them by fishermen/women. Not saying to do that, I'm just pointing out the hypocrisy in your argument.
The entire notion of being anti-Cape Wind smacks in the face of elitism. If this were a wind project going off the coast of Gloucester, it wouldn't have been stopped. I live off the coast of Swampscott, a coastal town that rivals any other in this state in terms of beauty and affluence... and I see NO honest reason to be against Cape Wind. It will have little to no effect on the horizon or environment. You guys are just batty. Stop being a bunch of elitists and allow our state to progressively try to deal with the energy crisis and Global Warming.
Ryan's Take
The entire notion of being anti-Cape Wind smacks in the face of elitism. If this were a wind project going off the coast of Gloucester, it wouldn't have been stopped. I live off the coast of Swampscott, a coastal town that rivals any other in this state in terms of beauty and affluence... and I see NO honest reason to be against Cape Wind. It will have little to no effect on the horizon or environment. You guys are just batty. Stop being a bunch of elitists and allow our state to progressively try to deal with the energy crisis and Global Warming.
Ryan's Take
Rhode Islander [Visitor] writes:
Ryan,
Cape Wind will have absolutely no effect on global warming. It is completely irrational to think otherwise. Read the letter in today’s Boston Globe on the subject. Here is part of it-
“…The great irony is that the land area where most Globe readers live was covered by glacial ice 15,000 years ago.”
“Global warmists would have whined about the disappearance of that ice sheet even though it was a natural phenomenon that made today's world -- and their own pitiful lives – possible”.
Letter by Paul M. Craig, Northampton
Cape Wind will have absolutely no effect on global warming. It is completely irrational to think otherwise. Read the letter in today’s Boston Globe on the subject. Here is part of it-
“…The great irony is that the land area where most Globe readers live was covered by glacial ice 15,000 years ago.”
“Global warmists would have whined about the disappearance of that ice sheet even though it was a natural phenomenon that made today's world -- and their own pitiful lives – possible”.
Letter by Paul M. Craig, Northampton
Magical Eye [Member] writes:
Global warming of the artificial kind is, perhaps, the epitome of marketing fear tactics. And what gets me is, it is based on human arrogance. We are causing it; we can stop it. GLOBAL warming. Unbelievable. And how do we stop it? Why, let's just stick a finger in the dam. Nah, that wouldn't sell anything, create jobs and make anyone rich... let's stop it by continuing to do what we do and add more problems to the environment that will need to be fixed... creating more jobs and more opportunities for people to make money. God forbid we should attmept to give anything up! On no, that would be much too much to ask (mandate)! We NEED the SUVs, we NEED to make waste, we NEED to dispose of everything we have and buy new, we NEED to BUY MORE. We NEED Wind Turbines now just because they are advertised on TV... just like children we NEED them. NEED and GREED and the feel good solution. Yup that's what the snake oil salesmen count on. IF anyone thinks the oil guys are not in bed with the wind turbine guys, the government and corporate america well... I have a bridge to sell them.
Magical Eye [Member] writes:
As to the energy crisis... we have the tools to deal with that. Just like people who spend themselves into debt... there are ways to recover. One is to go to the bank and borrow more and more... the other is to establish a budget, cut up the credit cards, cut back on expenses and either work more or change the lifestyle. The former only creates more debt, the latter solves the problem. Pretty simple stuff, really.
Little Fish in a BIG POND [Visitor] writes:
Ryan,
You weren't very good at playing Monopoly were you? You aren't paying attention to the "game" at all. Outside of a few references to respecting and caring about wildlife no one has pulled the cards you are refering to against Cape Whined in quite some time. I think we have gotten past that and just gone into the fact that it is not the best solution and shouldn't go there no matter what. Don't you even wonder why it isn't happening any other place in country. You think only Cape Winding down has the "vision" and means to do this. The object of this game is location and it's not the amount of wind that blows there it's the fact that as an investment any other place would suck for them. If they can't put it in federal waters that close to shore they can't afford to be competive and the whole thing would be a wash for them. They are simply taking a CHANCE to PASS GO and land on FREE PARKING then watch what really happens to the COMMUNITY CHEST.
The Mass Audubon by the way is not "VATICAN CITY". Head of Sea Shepherd does not endorse Cape Wind. None of that matters much.
You weren't very good at playing Monopoly were you? You aren't paying attention to the "game" at all. Outside of a few references to respecting and caring about wildlife no one has pulled the cards you are refering to against Cape Whined in quite some time. I think we have gotten past that and just gone into the fact that it is not the best solution and shouldn't go there no matter what. Don't you even wonder why it isn't happening any other place in country. You think only Cape Winding down has the "vision" and means to do this. The object of this game is location and it's not the amount of wind that blows there it's the fact that as an investment any other place would suck for them. If they can't put it in federal waters that close to shore they can't afford to be competive and the whole thing would be a wash for them. They are simply taking a CHANCE to PASS GO and land on FREE PARKING then watch what really happens to the COMMUNITY CHEST.
The Mass Audubon by the way is not "VATICAN CITY". Head of Sea Shepherd does not endorse Cape Wind. None of that matters much.
Reality Eye [Visitor] writes:
Ryan, don't pay much attention to "Fish and the Gang". They all are part of the Cape Cod leisure class. They only care about themselves. You are correct that there is no good reason to deny Cape Wind. It's just a bunch of NIMBYs claiming to be environmentalists.
Reality Eye [Visitor] writes:
BTW, Hull 2 is now in operation. No FUD (Fear, Uncertainty, and Doubt) in Hull, just good clean logic. They are making money and not polluting the environment.
I'll bet they are glad Ted K. lives on the cape and can't muck up their good clean plans....
I'll bet they are glad Ted K. lives on the cape and can't muck up their good clean plans....
Rhode Islander [Visitor] writes:
Big difference between Hull 1, Hull 2, and Cape Wind, Reality Eye.
The first two are small public projects, on a small area of public land.
Cape Wind will be a huge private project on a huge area of public land.
The first two are small public projects, on a small area of public land.
Cape Wind will be a huge private project on a huge area of public land.
Maverick [Visitor] writes:
Happy Easter everyone.
Thanks Magical, Little Fish and Rhode Islander for your perseverance and insightful thoughts.
None of us are rich or so called " leisure class ". Can't we have an opinion without being labeled. We are concerned citizens in a global environment.
MEE, reality eye, Ryan seem one and the same. Does Jack C send you all a 1099?
You could build 100 Cape Wind projects and gas would still be $3.00 a gallon and climbing.
With your name calling and misrepresentation of the truth you are a disgrace.
Thanks Magical, Little Fish and Rhode Islander for your perseverance and insightful thoughts.
None of us are rich or so called " leisure class ". Can't we have an opinion without being labeled. We are concerned citizens in a global environment.
MEE, reality eye, Ryan seem one and the same. Does Jack C send you all a 1099?
You could build 100 Cape Wind projects and gas would still be $3.00 a gallon and climbing.
With your name calling and misrepresentation of the truth you are a disgrace.
Anonymous [Visitor] writes:
Pssst Fishbreath... Set the lamb on fire on the BBQ and you came to mind for some strange reason...
Don't mean to take the "exhaust" out of your point but...
Just thought I would correct what must be an inadvertant mistake on your part... Then again... Maybe it was me?
I could be wrong but I believe I said I bought my '98 SUV with 27,000 miles on it...
BTW... Paid way less than half of that for it.
I tend to think of driving it like recycling... Rather than turning it to scrap... I gave it a new life.
Now has just over 30,000 miles on it so as you can see I haven't "guzzled" a whole lot of gas.
Do hope you will not report me to the hypocrite police...
Don't mean to take the "exhaust" out of your point but...
Just thought I would correct what must be an inadvertant mistake on your part... Then again... Maybe it was me?
I could be wrong but I believe I said I bought my '98 SUV with 27,000 miles on it...
BTW... Paid way less than half of that for it.
I tend to think of driving it like recycling... Rather than turning it to scrap... I gave it a new life.
Now has just over 30,000 miles on it so as you can see I haven't "guzzled" a whole lot of gas.
Do hope you will not report me to the hypocrite police...
Rhode Islander [Visitor] writes:
Reporting SUV owners and passengers to the hypocrite police has been J. Coleman’s job up until now S.P.
Just look at his blog.
http://polnotes.typepad.com/windfarmblog/2006/04/pay_no_attentio.html
Rest easy though. You and Jack are on the same side, and no doubt he is looking the other way.
I do have a question for you S.P.-
When you were out on ACK with Jack, did he catch a ride with you?
Just look at his blog.
http://polnotes.typepad.com/windfarmblog/2006/04/pay_no_attentio.html
Rest easy though. You and Jack are on the same side, and no doubt he is looking the other way.
I do have a question for you S.P.-
When you were out on ACK with Jack, did he catch a ride with you?
Reality Eye [Visitor] writes:
Hull 1 and 2 are built on public land. They plan to build offshore next. You NIMBYs better get protesting.....
Little Fish Th. D. [Visitor] writes:
SPECK, I surely hope you remember you just got back the love you lost and probably need to put your mind on that and other things besides these blogs and CAPE WHINERS. You wouldn't want to blow it again I'm sure.
I can guarantee you that within seconds of pushing the send button you are out of sight and out of mind for me. I'm flattered that you think me even while eating and enjoying your leisure time (that is pretty twisted)but don't you have better things to do with yourself? I highly suggest you figure that out before you find yourself by yourself again.
You know where that gets you, walking lonely down beaches getting mad because you can't score. I think it might be the hat and those damn "birth control glasses". Just because she was a famous fashion designer it's not fashionable for a man to go around looking like "Edith Head".
Turn off the computer and get a life Sparky and stop thinking of me so much. Then LUCY 'splain' that to your boy Realty Eye, MEE or what ever he is today.
Keep grillin recent studies show that BBQ'd meat is linked to the BIG C. Bon Apetite!!
I can guarantee you that within seconds of pushing the send button you are out of sight and out of mind for me. I'm flattered that you think me even while eating and enjoying your leisure time (that is pretty twisted)but don't you have better things to do with yourself? I highly suggest you figure that out before you find yourself by yourself again.
You know where that gets you, walking lonely down beaches getting mad because you can't score. I think it might be the hat and those damn "birth control glasses". Just because she was a famous fashion designer it's not fashionable for a man to go around looking like "Edith Head".
Turn off the computer and get a life Sparky and stop thinking of me so much. Then LUCY 'splain' that to your boy Realty Eye, MEE or what ever he is today.
Keep grillin recent studies show that BBQ'd meat is linked to the BIG C. Bon Apetite!!
Little Fish Th. D. [Visitor] writes:
SPECK GOOD NEWS!!!!!! Google say's the BBQ'd meat thing is only linked to men. So relax, you have nothing to fear but CAPE FEAR itself.
Little Fish Th. D. [Visitor] writes:
SPECK I know you want hang with the BIG DOGS and this truth hurts... but you are not CAPE WIND. Nobody is concerned about you. You truly don't owe me any further drivel about your need to over compensate for something you lack or for why you are an outright hypocrite. The people that support you think it's ok and those that oppose CW really don't care much about what you drive. Me, I'm just keeping my promise to chuck rocks at your glass house every chance I get. Believe me I'd rather be having an exchange with someone I might be able to take seriously.
It's the silent majority out there that see you are not to be taken as seriously between this and the EDISON boner that you really need to convince and you are digging the hole deeper. Keep on trucking and ducking.
Take Jack's wise cue and don't even talk about your SUV. He's sure not saying anything about it. Guess only Kennedy SUV's matter to him fittingly.
"ducking past protesters from Clean Power Now and other Cape Wind supporters and hopping into - could the symbolism be more fitting? - a large SUV." - Jack Coleman
It's the silent majority out there that see you are not to be taken as seriously between this and the EDISON boner that you really need to convince and you are digging the hole deeper. Keep on trucking and ducking.
Take Jack's wise cue and don't even talk about your SUV. He's sure not saying anything about it. Guess only Kennedy SUV's matter to him fittingly.
"ducking past protesters from Clean Power Now and other Cape Wind supporters and hopping into - could the symbolism be more fitting? - a large SUV." - Jack Coleman
Smurf [Visitor] writes:
Can anyone explain why there is a huge turbine set up across Buttermilk Bay from my cottage?
anon [Visitor] writes:
hey magic, how about these for future referendum questions:
-would you accept a military draft to keep the oil flowing?
-would you go to a hospital, like CC Hosital, if it was running solely on generators?
-would you accept rolling brown outs or blackout scenarios and for how long?
-would you shoot American mobs looting firewood, batteries and food?
-would you join a succession movement if Bosstown shut down an alternative energy source for your patch of grid?
-would you help the poor and disenfranchised immediately impacted by outages or higher prices and rates?
-would you trust others with your security, safety and well-being?
-would you bet this country could survive long with electricity?
-would you be surprised at how delighted terrorists are with this devisive and contentious debate?
-would you vote for more oilaholics and uranium stockpilers?
-would you help clean up after another oil spill?
-would you support with your vote an evacuation plan that didn't include the phrase "swim east"?
-would you support a business that opposes clean, renewable electricity?
-would you accept a military draft to keep the oil flowing?
-would you go to a hospital, like CC Hosital, if it was running solely on generators?
-would you accept rolling brown outs or blackout scenarios and for how long?
-would you shoot American mobs looting firewood, batteries and food?
-would you join a succession movement if Bosstown shut down an alternative energy source for your patch of grid?
-would you help the poor and disenfranchised immediately impacted by outages or higher prices and rates?
-would you trust others with your security, safety and well-being?
-would you bet this country could survive long with electricity?
-would you be surprised at how delighted terrorists are with this devisive and contentious debate?
-would you vote for more oilaholics and uranium stockpilers?
-would you help clean up after another oil spill?
-would you support with your vote an evacuation plan that didn't include the phrase "swim east"?
-would you support a business that opposes clean, renewable electricity?
Magical Eye [Member] writes:
This isn't a fundamentalist religious war anon whoeveryouare. This isn't a war about alternative energy of which there are many answers or dependance on foreign oil or whether or not humans are the cause of global warming. This is a fight between the people with ONE private developer who wants a piece of the public common at no expense to him in an unacceptable location (for a long list of reasons not the least of which is public safety) for his industrial wind power plant. Why don't you ask him if it is worth it to him to move it to a more acceptable and safe location with your list of concerns and see what HE says. And if he answers PLEASE do post his comments for us all to see.
capeguy [Visitor] writes:
The MMA just got a new wind turbine and the local abutters dont even know about it....wonderful job MMA and Cashman
Jack Coleman [Member] writes:
C'mon, anon, you know how Magical is loath to swing at the tough questions. Toss a balloon ball she might be able to hit.
Little Fish, let me see if I understand you correctly - RFK Jr. is not a hypocrite for driving an SUV, but Stephen P. is ...?
Little Fish, let me see if I understand you correctly - RFK Jr. is not a hypocrite for driving an SUV, but Stephen P. is ...?
capeguy [Visitor] writes:
Magical
the oil companies get to extract non-replenishable oil from the gulf of mexico for free... but a wind developer cant use Nantucket Sound for a temporary wind farm without having to pay... why dont you help half as much to stop the LNG plant going in in Fall River
the oil companies get to extract non-replenishable oil from the gulf of mexico for free... but a wind developer cant use Nantucket Sound for a temporary wind farm without having to pay... why dont you help half as much to stop the LNG plant going in in Fall River
Magical Eye [Member] writes:
capeguy, thank you for acknowledging that I am actually helping in the fight against Cape wind. That pleases me immensely. But, as much as I would like to help with all of the concerns in the world I am just but one grandma doing my best with a few. With no pay mind you.
Little Fish Th. D. [Visitor] writes:
Jackalman,
Well if we use SPECK logic and defense, Bobby as a Master Falconer would need the vehicle to transport his birds. Ya gotta like that. And he is a Family man with a large family so that should be the equivalent of a puny guy with FIVE RATHER LARGE MEN in it. By the way SPECK disregards the State seatbelt law according to that photo... I guess that twas not his civic duty.
Now maybe your Kennedy fetish has you confused... It's Ted who drives the SUV with good SPECKulation as to why and Bobby drives a different non-leisure class vehicle that even common folks drive.
You anal retentive pencil neck geeks really are easy targets...
Magical I think it takes more than 24 hrs to keep an ass in suspense.
Well if we use SPECK logic and defense, Bobby as a Master Falconer would need the vehicle to transport his birds. Ya gotta like that. And he is a Family man with a large family so that should be the equivalent of a puny guy with FIVE RATHER LARGE MEN in it. By the way SPECK disregards the State seatbelt law according to that photo... I guess that twas not his civic duty.
Now maybe your Kennedy fetish has you confused... It's Ted who drives the SUV with good SPECKulation as to why and Bobby drives a different non-leisure class vehicle that even common folks drive.
You anal retentive pencil neck geeks really are easy targets...
Magical I think it takes more than 24 hrs to keep an ass in suspense.
Little Fish Th. D. [Visitor] writes:
How pathetic. What a bunch of of crap. The NON-BINDING referendum was taken counted and it is done. The congrats that was posted here was done in a typically modest fashion. Had that vote gone the other way you would have seen NY POST size headlines and blogs to beat the band. JACKals and SPECKtaters just can't enough of their oily dependency to ridicule one sole voice speaking AGAINST THE WIND. Pay attention to other things that go on here. It's been a week of things other than CAPE WIND Pro or Anti stories. The volumes of venom the vendors of viper viscosity would be a virtual volcano of verbosity voraciously vomiting vile with the velocity of a hotzone virus.
Now if you'll excuse me I'm listening to Walter B on NPR right now. He just paid MAGICAL a great compliment... his stock just went up in my book. Good job WB.
more v words....
Venustraphobia: Fear of beautiful women.
Verbophobia: Fear of words
Now if you'll excuse me I'm listening to Walter B on NPR right now. He just paid MAGICAL a great compliment... his stock just went up in my book. Good job WB.
more v words....
Venustraphobia: Fear of beautiful women.
Verbophobia: Fear of words
Jack Coleman [Member] writes:
There you go again, Little Fish, alarming the other patients. You deserve credit, though, for unleashing so many capitalized words despite the straightjacket - bravo!
That "sole voice" here against the wind farm - more like a chorus. And since the "sole voice" exhibits a palpable inability to answer a softball question, perhaps you are made of sturdier stuff. If this non-binding ballot question is of such significance, why not decide energy projects by binding ballot questions, Little Fish?
That "sole voice" here against the wind farm - more like a chorus. And since the "sole voice" exhibits a palpable inability to answer a softball question, perhaps you are made of sturdier stuff. If this non-binding ballot question is of such significance, why not decide energy projects by binding ballot questions, Little Fish?
Rhode Islander [Visitor] writes:
Jack,
Since we are asking “…softball questions,” I have one for you,- Peckham seems unable to answer.
Did you hop into Peckham's Eddie Bauer edition Ford Expedition when you were both campaigning shoulder to shoulder for Cape Wind on Nantucket last Tuesday?
If you did, you are a bit of a hypocrite yourself for posting the following on your blog the very next day-
“Who's the focus of everyone's attention, you might wonder. That's Ted Kennedy (between the two police officers to the right), ducking past protesters from Clean Power Now and other Cape Wind supporters and hopping into - could the symbolism be more fitting? - a large SUV.”
Politics really does make strange bedfellows.
Since we are asking “…softball questions,” I have one for you,- Peckham seems unable to answer.
Did you hop into Peckham's Eddie Bauer edition Ford Expedition when you were both campaigning shoulder to shoulder for Cape Wind on Nantucket last Tuesday?
If you did, you are a bit of a hypocrite yourself for posting the following on your blog the very next day-
“Who's the focus of everyone's attention, you might wonder. That's Ted Kennedy (between the two police officers to the right), ducking past protesters from Clean Power Now and other Cape Wind supporters and hopping into - could the symbolism be more fitting? - a large SUV.”
Politics really does make strange bedfellows.
Jack Coleman [Member] writes:
Sorry to disappoint you, Rhode Islander, but then again, not really - the only vehicle I rode in and drove on Nantucket was a hybrid car owned by another CPN member. I drive a Toyota Echo that gets 38 mpg, incidentally. How about you?
Stephen Peckham [Visitor] writes:
Fishbreath aka: "Mr. T"...
How thoughtful of you to include me in so many of your priors!... I guess...
I MUST be "out of sight out of mind within seconds"... Of pushing your button eh?
BTW... A friendly blogger sent me some ah... Interesting photos of you as well...
You ARE making your mark in your own right...
Only thing conspicous... By it's absence is about ten pounds of gold chains...
Now I 'see' why Magical fled to the Cape...
Certainly not to escape your lack of "Verbophobia".
We all know now...
Why... "You the man!"...
Your "voracious vomit" is just that...
So much puke...
And diarrhea.
P.s.
As usual... You add or misquote...
I said I thought of you... "while I set the lamb on fire"...
And fear not... So very obviously insecure one...
Unlike YOU... MY computer HAS been OFF... I had a delightful dinner with family & delightful company...
I suggest you ate the same as you spew for dinner.
Why don't you join RFK'jr. and his birdie friends and go for a ride in a nice big SUV...
Spread your wings and smell the guano.
How thoughtful of you to include me in so many of your priors!... I guess...
I MUST be "out of sight out of mind within seconds"... Of pushing your button eh?
BTW... A friendly blogger sent me some ah... Interesting photos of you as well...
You ARE making your mark in your own right...
Only thing conspicous... By it's absence is about ten pounds of gold chains...
Now I 'see' why Magical fled to the Cape...
Certainly not to escape your lack of "Verbophobia".
We all know now...
Why... "You the man!"...
Your "voracious vomit" is just that...
So much puke...
And diarrhea.
P.s.
As usual... You add or misquote...
I said I thought of you... "while I set the lamb on fire"...
And fear not... So very obviously insecure one...
Unlike YOU... MY computer HAS been OFF... I had a delightful dinner with family & delightful company...
I suggest you ate the same as you spew for dinner.
Why don't you join RFK'jr. and his birdie friends and go for a ride in a nice big SUV...
Spread your wings and smell the guano.
Little Fish Th. D. [Visitor] writes:
Well Jack I've studied Houdini and straightjackets are easy to slip if you have strength and dexterity it's a simply matter. Despite her "back up chorus" she speaks her own mind rather well. I've been watching that long before I decided to add my two cents. She probably would prefer hardball and maybe she thinks you throw like a girl.
But to answer your direct question I support the idea that in a democracy the voice of the people should be part of the decision making for any major project or undertaking. Especially when it requires the support of federal agencies, tax dollars etc.
And it happens in places like Tallahasee where the North Florida Power Project (NFPP) was voted in. The U.S. Dept of Energy reports that 30% of all power plants that are proposed are never built, especially with enough citizen opposition.
In fact it even happened in Russia. Federal nuclear officials were planning to complete construction of a nuclear plant in Kostroma, which the people of Kostroma opposed in a binding referendum in 1996.
So again your point is what?
But to answer your direct question I support the idea that in a democracy the voice of the people should be part of the decision making for any major project or undertaking. Especially when it requires the support of federal agencies, tax dollars etc.
And it happens in places like Tallahasee where the North Florida Power Project (NFPP) was voted in. The U.S. Dept of Energy reports that 30% of all power plants that are proposed are never built, especially with enough citizen opposition.
In fact it even happened in Russia. Federal nuclear officials were planning to complete construction of a nuclear plant in Kostroma, which the people of Kostroma opposed in a binding referendum in 1996.
So again your point is what?
Little Fish Th. D. [Visitor] writes:
The only thing Mr T and I have in common is just like him "I pity the fool". You are a pitiful fool.
Reality Eye, Th D., Ph. D., M. S., B.A., F. U. [Visitor] writes:
ME and the NIMBYs, wind turbines are going up on in various locations in Mass. and RI. The turbines at, Hull, IBEW, Mass Maritime, Portsmouth Abbey, etc. will show your concerns about Radar, Navigation, and environmentnal issues are nothing but NIMBYism.
Your FUD will be swepted asside as more wind turbines go up. You NIMBYs probably protested cell towers in the 90s and lost that battle too.
Your FUD will be swepted asside as more wind turbines go up. You NIMBYs probably protested cell towers in the 90s and lost that battle too.
Little Fish Th. D. [Visitor] writes:
Good for you Jack and wise choice. The picture also reveals that nobody rode with SPECK. Unless they ducked down to hide from shame.
I certainly have much more reSPECK for you. You can actually go out in the sunlight and are obviously not threatened by EXPOSURE... You didn't need to protect THIN SKIN under a ridiculous hat.
HAPPY PATRIOTS DAY EVERYBODY
I certainly have much more reSPECK for you. You can actually go out in the sunlight and are obviously not threatened by EXPOSURE... You didn't need to protect THIN SKIN under a ridiculous hat.
HAPPY PATRIOTS DAY EVERYBODY
Little Fish Th. D. [Visitor] writes:
SPECK
The mind is a terrible thing to waste, the BBQ, and now the Mr T and his gold chains. Those comments are all as thin as your skin. I wonder if the wife's former boss finds you amusing. When you are tired of waltzing and are ready to rock and roll, why don't you just let the racist remarks fly Archie full of BUNKer. You know you want to. Nobody else will be offended here SHYLOCK and I could care less. Come on bright boy... cough it up you know it's killing you.
The mind is a terrible thing to waste, the BBQ, and now the Mr T and his gold chains. Those comments are all as thin as your skin. I wonder if the wife's former boss finds you amusing. When you are tired of waltzing and are ready to rock and roll, why don't you just let the racist remarks fly Archie full of BUNKer. You know you want to. Nobody else will be offended here SHYLOCK and I could care less. Come on bright boy... cough it up you know it's killing you.
Little Fish Th. D. [Visitor] writes:
The obvious space you put between the lines to make your comments look bigger than they are is yet again proof that you need to over compensate for the things you find lacking. Despite anything else you are indeed an interesting study in anthropology. Keep babbling.
Rhode Islander [Visitor] writes:
It’s nice to learn about the hybrid Jack. I’d be more impressed if you had rented a bicycle. But I know, 100% Clean Power Now is a tad impractical.
Day to day, I drive a rice rocket too. And my “other” car? - it’s a Model T Ford pickup truck. Return to that video Little Fish told us about to see the irony here.
http://freedomfromoil.com/watch_the_animation/
My truck is virtually identical- It’s over eighty years old and gets about 24 mpg- just like the video reports.
S.Peckham, with or without his Eddie Bauer Ford Expedition, is helping to put all Cape Wind supporters in a bad light.
Day to day, I drive a rice rocket too. And my “other” car? - it’s a Model T Ford pickup truck. Return to that video Little Fish told us about to see the irony here.
http://freedomfromoil.com/watch_the_animation/
My truck is virtually identical- It’s over eighty years old and gets about 24 mpg- just like the video reports.
S.Peckham, with or without his Eddie Bauer Ford Expedition, is helping to put all Cape Wind supporters in a bad light.
Minister [Visitor] writes:
Fish, I see you claim to have a Th. D. Your style of writing shows you are not following your school of study.
It would appear that you are a graduate of the Church of White Trash.
It would appear that you are a graduate of the Church of White Trash.
Little Fish Th. D. [Visitor] writes:
Well you obviously go to the Culture Club "CHURCH OF THE POISON MIND". If you are going to butt in on things pay attention... The Th. D. has nothing to do with Theology or church ya clown. Even SPECK KNOWS it's how I stroke my ego because I only have a high school diploma.
Wizard of Oz: Why, anybody can have a brain. That's a very mediocre commodity. Every pusillanimous creature that crawls on the Earth or slinks through slimy seas has a brain. Back where I come from, we have universities, seats of great learning, where men go to become great thinkers. And when they come out, they think deep thoughts and with no more brains than you have. But they have one thing you haven't got: a diploma. Therefore, by virtue of the authority vested in me by the Universitartus Committiartum E Pluribus Unum, I hereby confer upon you the honorary degree of ThD.
Scarecrow: ThD?
Wizard of Oz: That's... Doctor of Thinkology.
Well I guess not every pusillanimous creature that crawls on the Earth or slinks through slimy seas has a brain.
You just proved that "SINISTER" with an ANTI M.
Wizard of Oz: Why, anybody can have a brain. That's a very mediocre commodity. Every pusillanimous creature that crawls on the Earth or slinks through slimy seas has a brain. Back where I come from, we have universities, seats of great learning, where men go to become great thinkers. And when they come out, they think deep thoughts and with no more brains than you have. But they have one thing you haven't got: a diploma. Therefore, by virtue of the authority vested in me by the Universitartus Committiartum E Pluribus Unum, I hereby confer upon you the honorary degree of ThD.
Scarecrow: ThD?
Wizard of Oz: That's... Doctor of Thinkology.
Well I guess not every pusillanimous creature that crawls on the Earth or slinks through slimy seas has a brain.
You just proved that "SINISTER" with an ANTI M.
Little Fish Th. D. [Visitor] writes:
My cousin Miles (he acts and does Stand-up) was right, every comedian hopes there is a heckler in the crowd... it makes their job so much easier.
But JACK I'm tired of feeding on tid bits and really want to keep some meat on the table. So how about it?
Any response to my observations that power projects are voted on all the time in binding referendums? Some get the nod and some get the sod. You knew that actually goes on already though right? So again I'm throwing you a lob... what is the point?
But JACK I'm tired of feeding on tid bits and really want to keep some meat on the table. So how about it?
Any response to my observations that power projects are voted on all the time in binding referendums? Some get the nod and some get the sod. You knew that actually goes on already though right? So again I'm throwing you a lob... what is the point?
Reality Eye [Visitor] writes:
Fish, you really are self important. People read these blogs like a news paper. They don't follow them like a soap opera.
How is some one to know that you don't have a Th. D. I though you had one too. You are a strange bird...
How is some one to know that you don't have a Th. D. I though you had one too. You are a strange bird...
Stephen W. Williams (aka Little Fish) [Visitor] writes:
I also don't get the "White Trash" comment.. you realize that I am African American by census count don't you? Like many who don't believe in any racial superiority or fool themselves to believe they are ethnically "pureblooded" I choose to use a term which honors the proven origins of all mankind and my native country as it is commonly known today.
I've revealed this all before ever since the Mass Audubon let their advocacy speak for those capable of speaking for themselves and not the ones they are supported and funded as a non-profit like us to advocate for.
Stephen Williams, Executive Director, Hudson Valley Raptor Center...
www.hvraptors.com
You don't need any other assistance to locate me or recognize me.
If you come to the Center be sure to bring your wallet, we do charge for admission. But you won't find me there right now. I am currently enjoying one of my frequent visits to the Cape. Will probably walk on the beach tomorrow and enjoy the view in "my back yard".
I've revealed this all before ever since the Mass Audubon let their advocacy speak for those capable of speaking for themselves and not the ones they are supported and funded as a non-profit like us to advocate for.
Stephen Williams, Executive Director, Hudson Valley Raptor Center...
www.hvraptors.com
You don't need any other assistance to locate me or recognize me.
If you come to the Center be sure to bring your wallet, we do charge for admission. But you won't find me there right now. I am currently enjoying one of my frequent visits to the Cape. Will probably walk on the beach tomorrow and enjoy the view in "my back yard".
Anonymous [Visitor] writes:
Fishface... Sorry to disapoint you my lackluster friend...
The BBQ crack had nothing to do with race. I was refering to you: Going up in smoke and blowing appropriately... "exhaust". And you do blow more than your share of the blue smoke.
As well the Mr "T"... Do you think you not suffer a retort occassionally for making remarks about how someone happens to look?
Stick it where the sun doesn't shine you jerk...
I think anyone who downloads your pics will readily admit that you do in fact project a remarkable likeness to "Mr. T"... It seems to fit & you wear it well.
Add to it your psydo-intellectual ramblings and narcissistic arrogance...
Fits you to a "T"... So suck it up and go back to stroking yourself.
The BBQ crack had nothing to do with race. I was refering to you: Going up in smoke and blowing appropriately... "exhaust". And you do blow more than your share of the blue smoke.
As well the Mr "T"... Do you think you not suffer a retort occassionally for making remarks about how someone happens to look?
Stick it where the sun doesn't shine you jerk...
I think anyone who downloads your pics will readily admit that you do in fact project a remarkable likeness to "Mr. T"... It seems to fit & you wear it well.
Add to it your psydo-intellectual ramblings and narcissistic arrogance...
Fits you to a "T"... So suck it up and go back to stroking yourself.
Reality Eye [Visitor] writes:
Mr. Williams, you drove to the cape?
Did you burn any gas? It's 250 miles from the bird center to hyannis.
If you want to save the planet, stay off the cape. Relax in NY once in a while.
How many trips do you make each year? Aren't you the pot calling the kettle black. LOL
Did you burn any gas? It's 250 miles from the bird center to hyannis.
If you want to save the planet, stay off the cape. Relax in NY once in a while.
How many trips do you make each year? Aren't you the pot calling the kettle black. LOL
Stephen Peckham [Visitor] writes:
Opps... Just noticed my last to Fishface/aka Mr. 'T'... Did not indicate it was the smiling guy with the hat & black glasses...
Sorry, Fishface... Not trying to escape unnoticed in your fun & games... But have to leave you to play with yourself as I have work to do.
So please excuse me & do what you do best at.
Sorry, Fishface... Not trying to escape unnoticed in your fun & games... But have to leave you to play with yourself as I have work to do.
So please excuse me & do what you do best at.
Maverick [Visitor] writes:
Good folks...we have white marlin, blue marlin, black marlin, great white sharks, brown sharks, etc.
We love and release them all.
I thought we were talking about the supposed benefits of renewable energy and the disasterous siting of Cape Wind.
And now SP and the CPN crowd try to turn this into a race war.
Fishface, Mr. T, etc. You people should be ashamed of your conduct.
We love and release them all.
I thought we were talking about the supposed benefits of renewable energy and the disasterous siting of Cape Wind.
And now SP and the CPN crowd try to turn this into a race war.
Fishface, Mr. T, etc. You people should be ashamed of your conduct.
Maverick [Visitor] writes:
Good folks...there is an urgent cry by CPN to call your legislator's as Don Young's ammendment and the Coast Guard bill is down to the short strokes.
Please call anyone and everyone and tell them your OPPOSITION to Cape Wind.
It is not in the best interest of Cape Cod. Please stand up and be counted. It is your Nantucket Sound.
Please call anyone and everyone and tell them your OPPOSITION to Cape Wind.
It is not in the best interest of Cape Cod. Please stand up and be counted. It is your Nantucket Sound.
Magical Eye [Member] writes:
Thank you Maverick for the heads up. I am calling now and will put up the phone numbers for others to call with their opposition to Cape Wind on the top of this post.
Little Fish in a BIG POND [Visitor] writes:
Thanks MAVERICK for the good sense reminder to us all. I admit I enjoy sticking it to s.peckHAM. Before some of us got into slamming him and his credibility, he was always calling out for "pig piles" on people like MAGICAL, CRUSADER and BARBARA and I noticed that stopped when the tables got turned when a few good men such as yourself showed up.
But it does amount to a lot of wasted energy and droll wit is wasted on those that don't get the point behind it. It incites the rabble and dilutes the purpose of serious debate.
But you are right I too need to curb my appetite for "shrimps on the barbee and steamed little necks". We all need reminders from time to time. I will try and do better and leave the soap opera stuff alone but I can not promise anything when the need to feed kicks in. Don't want to be a hypocrite and say I won't still.
SPECK should stick to the reminder on his dashboard. "Think Daily". He forgets to do that sometimes. I wonder who put it there for him.
But it does amount to a lot of wasted energy and droll wit is wasted on those that don't get the point behind it. It incites the rabble and dilutes the purpose of serious debate.
But you are right I too need to curb my appetite for "shrimps on the barbee and steamed little necks". We all need reminders from time to time. I will try and do better and leave the soap opera stuff alone but I can not promise anything when the need to feed kicks in. Don't want to be a hypocrite and say I won't still.
SPECK should stick to the reminder on his dashboard. "Think Daily". He forgets to do that sometimes. I wonder who put it there for him.
Little Fish in a BIG POND [Visitor] writes:
So back to serious matters, Jack you want to know what I am in favor of as far as referendums go. I'd like to see a national referendum asking our government to determine a price cap on gasoline. Since so much of the price of gas is tax revenues I'd like them to say no matter what this is the highest price that anyone can charge for gas, and in fact if they wanted gasoline stations to be all federally operated I would support that idea. Screw independant owners who jack the prices up when they may be the only game in town on a lonely stretch of highway or downtown keeping up with the Jones's across the street. You want to know what pisses me off (pay attention SPECK because not a lot of things do)... the fact that they make you pay up front for gas these days and took the little stops out so you have to actually stand there and pump it till you've gotten all that you already paid for. Like we are robbing them or trying to get away with something!
I miss SUNOCO 360 dial an octane pumps and my 1971 402 Chevy Big Block Monte Carlo. I also miss Drew.
I miss SUNOCO 360 dial an octane pumps and my 1971 402 Chevy Big Block Monte Carlo. I also miss Drew.
Maverick [Visitor] writes:
Little Fish...you and Magical are not the problem in this diversionary tactic.
Keep the faith, spread the good word, and stand up for all true American's.
There are many.
I watched " War Stories " with Ollie North last night. I had read many books about Jimmy Doolittle and this program showed the true suffering and sacrifice they made to save all of us.
Both you and I have answered the call and done whatever our country asked.
Will the rest of this good nation stand up against Cape Wind or just be more leaves blowing in the wind.
Keep the faith, spread the good word, and stand up for all true American's.
There are many.
I watched " War Stories " with Ollie North last night. I had read many books about Jimmy Doolittle and this program showed the true suffering and sacrifice they made to save all of us.
Both you and I have answered the call and done whatever our country asked.
Will the rest of this good nation stand up against Cape Wind or just be more leaves blowing in the wind.
Anonymous 2 [Visitor] writes:
Dear Fish, Peckham, and the main group of about 5...
You are certainly very bright people. Lots of verbal repartee and quick wit with valid and serious points of reference - filled with good intentions. You all seem to have read a great deal and suggest a spiritual underpinning filled with passion. However, it all becomes shaded with your spiteful name calling - and because you are so bright it comes across like a very sharp knife. I flinch when I read your personal attacks. I think everyone (and there are really only about 5 of you) should take a big time out and be mindful of what you are writing and how it may be hurting other people.
You are certainly very bright people. Lots of verbal repartee and quick wit with valid and serious points of reference - filled with good intentions. You all seem to have read a great deal and suggest a spiritual underpinning filled with passion. However, it all becomes shaded with your spiteful name calling - and because you are so bright it comes across like a very sharp knife. I flinch when I read your personal attacks. I think everyone (and there are really only about 5 of you) should take a big time out and be mindful of what you are writing and how it may be hurting other people.
Little Fish in a BIG POND [Visitor] writes:
Well Anonymous 2, I'll tell you what. A word to the wise is sufficient and I have accepted the words of my dear friend MAVERICK and that was sufficient for me. I know that you mean well and I accept what you have to say. But you need not be so covert with this. Just tell SP to his face. I assume you can do that since you are sharing the same IP address that he has posted from. I don't mean any harm but let's not forget that any time you use technology such as this you are not often "cloaked". Those that throw daggers should pay attention to this. That is just a good piece of advice for everyone out there that thinks that ID's disguise their origins. Doesn't take much to figure things out and really doesn't take a computer wizard to do it at all. So I have self control on my side and I left him alone the entire time he asked for a truce. Tell him what you have to say to his face and if your word is as wise as you appear to be he'll get it I am sure. I don't think he'll disappoint you if he can help it. It does get tasteless/pointless though doesn't it?
Reality Eye [Visitor] writes:
Little fish the know it all. Just us an anon website like www.unipeak.com. There are thousands of them. People in China use them all the time. IP addresses don't mean a heck of a lot. You obviously don't know what dhcp is either. IPs roll, if speck has a neighbor the IP could roll to him if speck takes a break. Stick to the birds fishy...
Little Fish in a BIG POND [Visitor] writes:
Pop goes the weasel. Real ity bity Eye you sound like a Best Buy salesman. You also sound like the kind of person with a need to hide their IP address. I know there are sites for weasles to hide behind but that site is news I can't use. Not looking to be a weasle and I don't think any of the other grown ups out here care to know your dirty tricks sites either. Save it for your friends on MySpace.com. Come back when you can vote.
Jack Coleman [Member] writes:
Little Fish, a national referendum question on the government setting a price cap for gasoline would probably pass by about the same margin as the Nantucket vote. And it would also be completely unworkable. We already have laws against gauging; when the laws are broken, they should be enforced.
As I recall, Nixon implemented wage and price controls in the early '70s. Correct me if I'm wrong, but weren't they considered a failure?
As I recall, Nixon implemented wage and price controls in the early '70s. Correct me if I'm wrong, but weren't they considered a failure?
Little Fish in a BIG POND [Visitor] writes:
OK Jack now that you are back before we talk about my private fantasy which is neither here nor there what do you think about my reponse? These things have a precedent already for being decided by binding referendum.
It passed in a Florida debate and it was voted out in a Russian example. That is only two examples. You can Google others as well as I can.
It passed in a Florida debate and it was voted out in a Russian example. That is only two examples. You can Google others as well as I can.
Reality Eye [Visitor] writes:
Fishy (A.K.A. Mr. T) I\'m just having a good laugh that you think you understand how the internet works. You are a tech idiot. Please stick to the birds...
Did you figure out how DHCP works? Did you call Specks ISP and find out what the least timeout is on IP addresses? Having someone\'s IP address doesn\'t tell you much. You need to say you are sorry to speck. You don\'t really have much to base your accusation on.
Did you figure out how DHCP works? Did you call Specks ISP and find out what the least timeout is on IP addresses? Having someone\'s IP address doesn\'t tell you much. You need to say you are sorry to speck. You don\'t really have much to base your accusation on.
Little Fish in a BIG POND [Visitor] writes:
Ok I guess you better call the FBI and other law enforcement agencies bright boy because you might save them from unlawful search seizures since that is they way they bust people like you by tracking down IP addresses. By the way unless you expect people to believe your BS why don't you tell them youself how coincidentally you posted today under the ID "Minister" and then acted as if you were skunked by the Th D thing as well. I guessed it right off the bat and my sources confirmed it. Keep it up and I'll start publishing your exact where abouts some time. You know mine and so does everyone else paying attention to the soap opera as you call it.
I've been thinking since 1956 AND computing since about 1977. How long you been on the planet scrub?
The only electronic priciples you seem to understand is Static... hope you are not one of the "five rather large men trained by Edison".
I've been thinking since 1956 AND computing since about 1977. How long you been on the planet scrub?
The only electronic priciples you seem to understand is Static... hope you are not one of the "five rather large men trained by Edison".
Maverick [Visitor] writes:
CCT...I thought this was a blog about Cape Wind and it's supposed benefit to Cape Cod.
You are permitting racial smears, etc.
Is your advertiser " Cape Wind " that important to your finances that you would allow this without a warning.
You have critiqued me in the past for emotion but never for Racism.
I think you have the blinders on in your quest for dollars versus fairness and the truth.
You are permitting racial smears, etc.
Is your advertiser " Cape Wind " that important to your finances that you would allow this without a warning.
You have critiqued me in the past for emotion but never for Racism.
I think you have the blinders on in your quest for dollars versus fairness and the truth.
Little Fish in a BIG POND [Visitor] writes:
Locks only keep honest people out and only dishonest people try to get around locks... REALITY EYE... PEEK A BOO... WE SEE YOU AND WE KNOW WHAT YOU DO!
Maverick [Visitor] writes:
WB...please stand up and be counted.
Or are you entertained by the reality eye's, magical eagle eye's, etc.
Sickening. What a country. Blogfather you are BLOBFATHER to me.
Or are you entertained by the reality eye's, magical eagle eye's, etc.
Sickening. What a country. Blogfather you are BLOBFATHER to me.
Maverick [Visitor] writes:
Peter Porc...I thought you were all about fair play?
Lincoln stood up, can you?
Or might you piss off the BLOBFATHER?
God help us all. What a bunch of frauds.
Lincoln stood up, can you?
Or might you piss off the BLOBFATHER?
God help us all. What a bunch of frauds.
Jack Coleman [Member] writes:
Little Fish, I'll give you credit for being willing to debate the merits and drawbacks of deciding these issues by ballot question. Magical was too skittish to even make the attempt.
As to your example from Florida, could you elaborate on what was decided? If your point is that energy projects have been voted down elsewhere by referendum, it is much easier to get people to vote against them than for them.
While electricity itself enjoys almost universal support, especially in places where it is used the most, many people are oddly ambivalent about generating it anywhere nearby in a manner that does not produce pollution, greenhouse gases or use millions of gallons of seawater daily to cool turbines.
As to your example from Florida, could you elaborate on what was decided? If your point is that energy projects have been voted down elsewhere by referendum, it is much easier to get people to vote against them than for them.
While electricity itself enjoys almost universal support, especially in places where it is used the most, many people are oddly ambivalent about generating it anywhere nearby in a manner that does not produce pollution, greenhouse gases or use millions of gallons of seawater daily to cool turbines.
Little Fish in a BIG POND [Visitor] writes:
Jack,
Just an observation. Looking at Barbara standing next to you an SP I see her message clearly (Nantucket Not For Sale) and I see you and SP beside her with signs that show what turbines look like and the word YES. If I'm driving by to my polling place and don't know what all the hub bub is. I am going to be thinking your yes endorses her no. I know that sounds strange to some but it's all about the perception of reality. You probably can't fit all of the reasons why on one placard can you? People like electricity follow the path of least resistance. The truth needs no defending it is to the point. Only lies do. You can only fit so many lies on a small placard (Unless it is smeared across a FORD EXPEDITION) then you can spread many many lies.
I Counted the signs that looked like her's today as I was driving through the Cape. Saw none that simply said YES like the ones you are holding. The U.S. Dept of Energy reports that 30% of all power plants that are proposed are never built, especially with enough citizen opposition. That wind blows both ways. This is a power plant.
Just an observation. Looking at Barbara standing next to you an SP I see her message clearly (Nantucket Not For Sale) and I see you and SP beside her with signs that show what turbines look like and the word YES. If I'm driving by to my polling place and don't know what all the hub bub is. I am going to be thinking your yes endorses her no. I know that sounds strange to some but it's all about the perception of reality. You probably can't fit all of the reasons why on one placard can you? People like electricity follow the path of least resistance. The truth needs no defending it is to the point. Only lies do. You can only fit so many lies on a small placard (Unless it is smeared across a FORD EXPEDITION) then you can spread many many lies.
I Counted the signs that looked like her's today as I was driving through the Cape. Saw none that simply said YES like the ones you are holding. The U.S. Dept of Energy reports that 30% of all power plants that are proposed are never built, especially with enough citizen opposition. That wind blows both ways. This is a power plant.
Little Fish in a BIG POND [Visitor] writes:
Jack she wan't skittish at all she has a lower threshold for things that are really pointless than I do.
In the Tallahassee, Florida case which was put to a binding vote the people voted yes.
November 18th, 2005
"The results are in and city voters said “yes” to the City’s participation in the North Florida Power Project (NFPP), the Leon County Supervisor of Elections announced Thursday at 8:15 p.m. “There was a lot of passion surrounding this debate” a passion for doing what all sides thought was the right thing for Tallahassee,” said Tallahassee Mayor John Marks, III. “I’m proud that we have such an active, engaged community, and I know that we will all come together to continue making Tallahassee an even better place. “I am pleased,” Marks continued, “that a majority of the voters believe that the City’s participation in the North Florida Power Project can provide for an economically sound and environmentally safe energy future.”
Again Jack you can Google as well as I can. I'm not going on a fools errand every time you won't tell "the rest of the story" ala Paul Harvey!
In the Tallahassee, Florida case which was put to a binding vote the people voted yes.
November 18th, 2005
"The results are in and city voters said “yes” to the City’s participation in the North Florida Power Project (NFPP), the Leon County Supervisor of Elections announced Thursday at 8:15 p.m. “There was a lot of passion surrounding this debate” a passion for doing what all sides thought was the right thing for Tallahassee,” said Tallahassee Mayor John Marks, III. “I’m proud that we have such an active, engaged community, and I know that we will all come together to continue making Tallahassee an even better place. “I am pleased,” Marks continued, “that a majority of the voters believe that the City’s participation in the North Florida Power Project can provide for an economically sound and environmentally safe energy future.”
Again Jack you can Google as well as I can. I'm not going on a fools errand every time you won't tell "the rest of the story" ala Paul Harvey!
Reality Eye [Visitor] writes:
Fishy, been working in computer science for 30 years. You can\'t trace someone unless a real crime has been commited. Take care degreeless boy. Have a nice time trying to prove your intellect on a blog site as a little responder. LOL
BTW, I looked at your website. I love the tacky flashing jpegs. Your lack of education shows. Please take a website design course soon!
BTW, I looked at your website. I love the tacky flashing jpegs. Your lack of education shows. Please take a website design course soon!
Little Fish in a BIG POND [Visitor] writes:
As for the price control thing/Nixon blah blah blah, economist see it as "viable" during wartime if the country is capable of doing things with war time strategies in mind like our parents did in WW II. You do remember we are at "war" right?
We were with Nixon but it was the greedy owners that determined they would not sell to off balance supply and demands. I say cut those legs out from under them. If they won't comply with the control claim their gas station as part of Eminent Domain. Screw them!
We were with Nixon but it was the greedy owners that determined they would not sell to off balance supply and demands. I say cut those legs out from under them. If they won't comply with the control claim their gas station as part of Eminent Domain. Screw them!
Little Fish in a BIG POND [Visitor] writes:
Flashing jpegs? It's called DHTML... try and keep up would you Sparkplug?
Little Fish in a BIG POND [Visitor] writes:
It's baffling when it's work and it's child's play when it's what you do for fun. Sucks to be you.
Reality Eye [Visitor] writes:
fish (aka sparky). You missed my point. The jpegs you are flashing using dhtml are TACKY! Make you site more professional and you will get more donations. Take a look at capecodtoday and your website. Yours is tacky, what more can I say. You have the last word. I\'ll stop picking on you...
Smurf [Visitor] writes:
If your money's missin, they ain't tryin to listen... they'll be sitting in the Expedition, straight dissin...
Maverick [Visitor] writes:
Reality Eye...please give me the URL of your site. I do SEO for a living and would love to critique your site.
I can be found at www.maverickchartersltd.com
Any suggestions would be appreciated.
Thanks
I can be found at www.maverickchartersltd.com
Any suggestions would be appreciated.
Thanks
anon [Visitor] writes:
magically, isn't it up to Jim Gordon to define Jim Gordon? Haven't they already put out over $20 million for 17 reviews of horseshoe and wreck shoals and still no permit? if this area is so beloved why were there no other efforts to make it a marine sanctuary after it lost the bid back in the 90s? Where to site 130 land-based turbines? the national seashore? and finally, why can't my comments just be viewed as anonymous input or do you really need to critique and assasinate me as a person rather than address my concerns and fears?
Magical Eye [Member] writes:
anon, I have no idea who you are or what you are talking about in terms of your personal issues. As to Cape Wind have you heard of Davis Shoals? And who said there are no other efforts to make the Nantucket a National Marine Sanctuary...?
Little Fish in a BIG POND [Visitor] writes:
So Jack I guess it's foolish to ask but you believe the global warming hype. Did you believe the global cooling theories in the 70's?
Surely you are smart enough to know that the earth's climatic changes are not dependent on industrial causes.
But just like Y2K scares it is a great marketing tool. Fear of the known unknown that is. People will react out of fear and make hasty decisions.
It reminds me of a place in Wyoming called "Chugwater". Look it up, and find out how it got it's name.
Surely you are smart enough to know that the earth's climatic changes are not dependent on industrial causes.
But just like Y2K scares it is a great marketing tool. Fear of the known unknown that is. People will react out of fear and make hasty decisions.
It reminds me of a place in Wyoming called "Chugwater". Look it up, and find out how it got it's name.
anon [Visitor] writes:
bugs ya doesn't it magical that people and opinions can't be reduced to one liners or zingers. if you think stellwagen or mass bay gets protection from the outfall or the army corps' dredging/dumping or is special cuz it's designated sanctuary think again. cape wind didn't just throw a dart on a map. this is where the wind is and isn't. this is where the need is. the cape is on a dead-end cul-de-sac for electricity. tell me about Davis Shoals. could we fit more turbines there?
Barbara Hill [Visitor] writes:
Little Fish -
I believe that climate change is very real. Ask the people in Alaska where ice used to be and now there is mud. As you suggest, the earth's climatic change cycle is not triggered by industrial causes - however because of industrial causes the scientists who study this believe that changes are happening much faster. Also, because of the polluted atmosphere (from industrial causes) heat is blocked. As Richard Cohen states in his Washington Post column, Katrina is prologue not past.
I agree with your previous comments suggesting that Mother Earth is and always will be correct. We are not saving Her, we are attempting to save ourselves. We may turn out to be one of her worst experiments.
Cape Wind certainly won't save us. ISO New England reported two years ago that there are no new energy producing plants on the horizon with one exception - Cape Wind. They also reported of the distinct possibility of blackouts in the winter. We have not planned for our energy needs. Someone has to start, someone has to lead - now, not in 10 years.
I believe that climate change is very real. Ask the people in Alaska where ice used to be and now there is mud. As you suggest, the earth's climatic change cycle is not triggered by industrial causes - however because of industrial causes the scientists who study this believe that changes are happening much faster. Also, because of the polluted atmosphere (from industrial causes) heat is blocked. As Richard Cohen states in his Washington Post column, Katrina is prologue not past.
I agree with your previous comments suggesting that Mother Earth is and always will be correct. We are not saving Her, we are attempting to save ourselves. We may turn out to be one of her worst experiments.
Cape Wind certainly won't save us. ISO New England reported two years ago that there are no new energy producing plants on the horizon with one exception - Cape Wind. They also reported of the distinct possibility of blackouts in the winter. We have not planned for our energy needs. Someone has to start, someone has to lead - now, not in 10 years.
Little Fish in a BIG POND [Visitor] writes:
Barbara
I agree with you on many points here and appreciate the lucid thoughts behind what you are saying. The problem with debating issues like this is that like many media hyped pieces the "perception is the reality" one formulates from what they believe they see being presented. None of us are self assured by our own facts. We all are exercising judgements we can not possibly make on our own data because we don't have the means to do so otherwise.
So since you are capable of saying "Cape Wind certainly won't save us" that is refreshing in a sea of people that reason it will.
So let's set the debate of warming cooling or luke-warming of the planet aside because it is much like the weather with everybody talking about it but nobody is doing much about it.
I'd like to know how you feel about the value of something we all can make up our own minds about. That is the priceless, timeless value of our often non-renewable natural resources and vistas. Before you answer allow me to share a quote I want you to ponder in a subsequent comment below....
I agree with you on many points here and appreciate the lucid thoughts behind what you are saying. The problem with debating issues like this is that like many media hyped pieces the "perception is the reality" one formulates from what they believe they see being presented. None of us are self assured by our own facts. We all are exercising judgements we can not possibly make on our own data because we don't have the means to do so otherwise.
So since you are capable of saying "Cape Wind certainly won't save us" that is refreshing in a sea of people that reason it will.
So let's set the debate of warming cooling or luke-warming of the planet aside because it is much like the weather with everybody talking about it but nobody is doing much about it.
I'd like to know how you feel about the value of something we all can make up our own minds about. That is the priceless, timeless value of our often non-renewable natural resources and vistas. Before you answer allow me to share a quote I want you to ponder in a subsequent comment below....
Little Fish in a BIG POND [Visitor] writes:
Continued to Barbara Hill-
"Due to the extraordinary recreational value of ocean, lake, and river frontage, both because of the opportunities it offers for a variety of physical activities and because of the "refreshment of mind and spirit" provided by combinations of land and water, the necessity of providing an adequate quantity and quality of such properties for public use cannot be over-emphasized.1 Adequate quantity may be defined as sufficient in extent to permit all necessary development without undesirable crowding, or encroachment by private enterprise. Since the wildlife associated with water margins is often of exceptional interest to the public, ample area in which to permit its protection and display will add greatly to the public value of any such holdings. Frequently beach areas are associated with a hinterland of marsh and swamp of low monetary value, but which provides the favorite habitat to a large and interesting variety of bird and animal life. Whenever possible such hinterlands should be acquired with the frontage and full protection accorded them."
"Due to the extraordinary recreational value of ocean, lake, and river frontage, both because of the opportunities it offers for a variety of physical activities and because of the "refreshment of mind and spirit" provided by combinations of land and water, the necessity of providing an adequate quantity and quality of such properties for public use cannot be over-emphasized.1 Adequate quantity may be defined as sufficient in extent to permit all necessary development without undesirable crowding, or encroachment by private enterprise. Since the wildlife associated with water margins is often of exceptional interest to the public, ample area in which to permit its protection and display will add greatly to the public value of any such holdings. Frequently beach areas are associated with a hinterland of marsh and swamp of low monetary value, but which provides the favorite habitat to a large and interesting variety of bird and animal life. Whenever possible such hinterlands should be acquired with the frontage and full protection accorded them."
Little Fish in a BIG POND [Visitor] writes:
Now I don't live within view of Nantucket Sound but I enjoy it like many "national treasures" and many who visit and appreciate it for what it is worth.
I am certainly not in the "leisure class" but I deserve the right to have my leisure protected which is also part of the study that quote comes from.
It was written in a paper called "A Study of the Park and Recreation Problem"
That was written in 1941 by the United States Department of the Interior
National Park Service of the United States.... 1941 the air was polluted by the black smoke from the ovens of Auschwitz. Terrorism was going to attack from the skies on a early December's dawning... and our country would respond by minimizing the use of resources and conservation....
We can do anything we want as Americans, including protecting our scenic views to ensure that our minds and spirits have a place to go to be refreshed. I myself need that and I'll fight to protect it any time any place anywhere even in my backyard from sea to shining sea!
READ IT
http://www.cr.nps.gov/history/online_books/park_rec/index.ht
I am certainly not in the "leisure class" but I deserve the right to have my leisure protected which is also part of the study that quote comes from.
It was written in a paper called "A Study of the Park and Recreation Problem"
That was written in 1941 by the United States Department of the Interior
National Park Service of the United States.... 1941 the air was polluted by the black smoke from the ovens of Auschwitz. Terrorism was going to attack from the skies on a early December's dawning... and our country would respond by minimizing the use of resources and conservation....
We can do anything we want as Americans, including protecting our scenic views to ensure that our minds and spirits have a place to go to be refreshed. I myself need that and I'll fight to protect it any time any place anywhere even in my backyard from sea to shining sea!
READ IT
http://www.cr.nps.gov/history/online_books/park_rec/index.ht
Barbara Hill [Visitor] writes:
Little Fish -
Ok to set aside the climate change debate.
I feel about the quote probably the same as you do and most everyone you would ask would say that they value and treasure the (your quote) "priceless, timeless value of our often non-renewable natural resources and vistas."
But I imagine that you are really asking me that if (based on my answer) I treasure and value(for example)Nantucket Sound then how could I on the other hand support a wind enery facility within 24 square miles of it which would, based on your perspective,smack in the face of valuing and treasuring it. I realize I am assuming your thoughts but kindly give me a little room here.
I swim in Nantucket Sound every day from late June to mid late October. I believe I am extremely fortunate to be able to live a short distance from Craigville Beach and be able to essentially reconnect myself to most of what is important to me by getting in that salt water each day. I am born again and that really doesn't come close to the magic of being there.
Ok to set aside the climate change debate.
I feel about the quote probably the same as you do and most everyone you would ask would say that they value and treasure the (your quote) "priceless, timeless value of our often non-renewable natural resources and vistas."
But I imagine that you are really asking me that if (based on my answer) I treasure and value(for example)Nantucket Sound then how could I on the other hand support a wind enery facility within 24 square miles of it which would, based on your perspective,smack in the face of valuing and treasuring it. I realize I am assuming your thoughts but kindly give me a little room here.
I swim in Nantucket Sound every day from late June to mid late October. I believe I am extremely fortunate to be able to live a short distance from Craigville Beach and be able to essentially reconnect myself to most of what is important to me by getting in that salt water each day. I am born again and that really doesn't come close to the magic of being there.
Barbara Hill [Visitor] writes:
continued -
As I mentioned earlier I have worked very hard over 4 years to understand this project from it's many sides. I believe deep in my heart that if the Cape Wind passes through the regulatory review that it is undergoing that it should be permitted. The Energy Facilities Siting Board said go - the Mass Audubon said yes conditionally - the FAA gave a prelim OK and on and on. I don't believe in changing the rules because they (my opinion) are for the wrong reasons. Someone much smarter than me said that if this project gets permittetd for the wrong reasons it is just as terrible as not getting permitted for the wrong reasons.
I would be so proud to be able share my Nantucket Sound swim with my family and be able to point out to the wind farm and say, "you know when we get back home that energy coming from those blades on those turbines we saw (or not because of the haze) turning is the energy we will be using for our hot showers and to cook our dinner.
We have a chance to do something for the greater good. Let us lead the country right here on little Cape Cod.
As I mentioned earlier I have worked very hard over 4 years to understand this project from it's many sides. I believe deep in my heart that if the Cape Wind passes through the regulatory review that it is undergoing that it should be permitted. The Energy Facilities Siting Board said go - the Mass Audubon said yes conditionally - the FAA gave a prelim OK and on and on. I don't believe in changing the rules because they (my opinion) are for the wrong reasons. Someone much smarter than me said that if this project gets permittetd for the wrong reasons it is just as terrible as not getting permitted for the wrong reasons.
I would be so proud to be able share my Nantucket Sound swim with my family and be able to point out to the wind farm and say, "you know when we get back home that energy coming from those blades on those turbines we saw (or not because of the haze) turning is the energy we will be using for our hot showers and to cook our dinner.
We have a chance to do something for the greater good. Let us lead the country right here on little Cape Cod.
Little Fish in a BIG POND [Visitor] writes:
Barbara,
Any one that has a heart in their chest knows the value. So since we agree their wouldn't you and I if it were left up to us simply agree that there must be a place where we could place a wind industrial power plant and be and get the same benefit with out sacrificing the thing you love most and are able to enjoy.
If I were willing to accept your proposal which by the way I am against the siting of the project not the concepts then shouldn't there be an alternative that can satisfy both sides? Wouldn't a reasonable company bring an alternative to the table?
I'm assuming your thoughts so make enough room for both of us. That is how solutions occur.
Any one that has a heart in their chest knows the value. So since we agree their wouldn't you and I if it were left up to us simply agree that there must be a place where we could place a wind industrial power plant and be and get the same benefit with out sacrificing the thing you love most and are able to enjoy.
If I were willing to accept your proposal which by the way I am against the siting of the project not the concepts then shouldn't there be an alternative that can satisfy both sides? Wouldn't a reasonable company bring an alternative to the table?
I'm assuming your thoughts so make enough room for both of us. That is how solutions occur.
Barbara Hill [Visitor] writes:
I realize that you have heard this before but right now there is no alternative site. The technology isn't there to go out into the ocean. Right now it needs the protection of shallow water. We can debate this but kindly believe me I have been in the company of a great many smart people and this is the consensus - but that is right now. We are hoping that the technology will advance so we can capture the wind, over the horizon, in deeper water.
We need electricity here and now. Once again that is the expert saying it not me.
One thought is that if I turn my gaze just a bit I won't see the turbines. There are over 500 square miles in Nantucket Sound and we are talking about 24. I also don't think that I wouldn't continue to enjoy my swim and my activites because the wind farm is there.
Also, there are many other beaches on the Cape and Islands that face in other directions that you would never see the turbines. We can't continue to have it all for us while other parts of the state and country do our dirty work for energy.
We need electricity here and now. Once again that is the expert saying it not me.
One thought is that if I turn my gaze just a bit I won't see the turbines. There are over 500 square miles in Nantucket Sound and we are talking about 24. I also don't think that I wouldn't continue to enjoy my swim and my activites because the wind farm is there.
Also, there are many other beaches on the Cape and Islands that face in other directions that you would never see the turbines. We can't continue to have it all for us while other parts of the state and country do our dirty work for energy.
Little Fish in a BIG POND [Visitor] writes:
Prior to 1941 we thought Hitler was a great solution for a Germany that was reeling from depression and the world believed his Zepplins was the way to the future. One day a group of "tourists" boarded planes with their cameras and took a scenic tour of Pearl Harbor. They went away very happy.... and delivered the photos which helped a netion target ships like the Arizona.
Now we may be talking apples and oranges but there is a lesson to be learned in taking care what we are convinced will do no harm.
I think people better not put aside the American ideals and frankly all the talk of the "Denmark" marvels really make me sick sincerely. The only man made thing I want to see blowing in the breeze over Nantucket is the American Flag. I bet you'd point to the sight of ships flying Old Glory passing in the Sound and tell your visitors that somewhere beyond the horizon there may be wind power turbines turning but tucked away like most ordinaces and local regulations allow people to have an opinion on when it comes to things like communication towers. That Dominate the local views.
Now we may be talking apples and oranges but there is a lesson to be learned in taking care what we are convinced will do no harm.
I think people better not put aside the American ideals and frankly all the talk of the "Denmark" marvels really make me sick sincerely. The only man made thing I want to see blowing in the breeze over Nantucket is the American Flag. I bet you'd point to the sight of ships flying Old Glory passing in the Sound and tell your visitors that somewhere beyond the horizon there may be wind power turbines turning but tucked away like most ordinaces and local regulations allow people to have an opinion on when it comes to things like communication towers. That Dominate the local views.
Barbara Hill [Visitor] writes:
Little Fish -
I don't understand the point you are making so maybe another time you can explain again... but I need to say...have a pleasant evening and I'm sure we will engage again soon.
I don't understand the point you are making so maybe another time you can explain again... but I need to say...have a pleasant evening and I'm sure we will engage again soon.
Little Fish in a BIG POND [Visitor] writes:
Well I'm sure I got your point and I hope the diplomacy lesson was learned by the true intended party. But if you can not see that the solution would be in a company willing to compromise by even considering an alternative site (which Cape Wind won't do) than you also don't get they are selfishly set and need to stop pretending this is a project for the "common good".
They won't discuss certain aspects of costs about the project and frankly it is not the effect that oil has on the environment that makes it viable it is the rising cost of oil. Without that factored in they could never be competitive. It is not perfect by wind standards it is the money it would cost to do it any other place that says it all. But they won't even attempt to tell you what that will cost you because you'll be paying for this and any other projects they attempt afterwards. The money that you may be impressed with that they have spent so far will be factored in to what they charge in the end.
It's a high cost for "peace of mind" Like putting LOJACK, Northstar and keyless entry systems on a Yugo.
They won't discuss certain aspects of costs about the project and frankly it is not the effect that oil has on the environment that makes it viable it is the rising cost of oil. Without that factored in they could never be competitive. It is not perfect by wind standards it is the money it would cost to do it any other place that says it all. But they won't even attempt to tell you what that will cost you because you'll be paying for this and any other projects they attempt afterwards. The money that you may be impressed with that they have spent so far will be factored in to what they charge in the end.
It's a high cost for "peace of mind" Like putting LOJACK, Northstar and keyless entry systems on a Yugo.
Jack Coleman [Member] writes:
Little Fish, in answer to your question about global warming, you may not believe this but I was a skeptic for a long time. Now I am more skeptical about the skeptics. Considering what is at stake, is this really something we can shrug off?
Rhode Islander [Visitor] writes:
Jack,
I’ll go back to that blog where we are discussing the UK wind industry before long, but I see the global warming issue has been raised here.
Simple question- did you read George Will’s April 2nd column on the subject “Combating "warming" is still up for debate”
http://www.townhall.com/opinion/columns/georgewill/2006/04/02/192190.html
His closing remark- “Perhaps the problem is big crusading journalism.”
I think G. Will has a good argument.
Care to share your thoughts?
[Little Fish- I love the Yugo analogy, and all else you are doing here.]
I’ll go back to that blog where we are discussing the UK wind industry before long, but I see the global warming issue has been raised here.
Simple question- did you read George Will’s April 2nd column on the subject “Combating "warming" is still up for debate”
http://www.townhall.com/opinion/columns/georgewill/2006/04/02/192190.html
His closing remark- “Perhaps the problem is big crusading journalism.”
I think G. Will has a good argument.
Care to share your thoughts?
[Little Fish- I love the Yugo analogy, and all else you are doing here.]
Jack Coleman [Member] writes:
The problem isn't "big crusading journalism," Rhode Islander, it's the lack of it. The only places worth living are those with "big crusading journalism" and the worst hellholes on earth have nothing remotely like it.
A couple of months ago I went to the JFK Library to hear biographer Richard Reeves talk about his book on Reagan. Reeves cited a claim made by Will after the Reykjavik summit in '86 to the effect that Reagan had committed one of the worst foreign policy blunders in American history.
In fact, the summit was a major turning point in the Cold War and the Berlin Wall came down only three years later.
Perhaps when the Kennedy compound is awash from rising sea levels, Will won't just come around on global warming, but will tell us what a wonderful thing it is.
A couple of months ago I went to the JFK Library to hear biographer Richard Reeves talk about his book on Reagan. Reeves cited a claim made by Will after the Reykjavik summit in '86 to the effect that Reagan had committed one of the worst foreign policy blunders in American history.
In fact, the summit was a major turning point in the Cold War and the Berlin Wall came down only three years later.
Perhaps when the Kennedy compound is awash from rising sea levels, Will won't just come around on global warming, but will tell us what a wonderful thing it is.
Stpehen Peckham [Visitor] writes:
Fish... "Alternative sites" were investigated by Cape Wind at the behest of the Corps. All under consideration were shown and agreed by the Corps to be not feasible for a variety of sound reasons.
I am wondering just who you feel Cape Wind should be discussing any costs with besides the reviewing agencies?
The site HAS been shown to be "perfect by wind standards"... Based on current technologies available to move forward NOW.
You and a few others seem to suggest there are other sites nearby which will provide an economically and technologically pheasable installation... Why not share those sites with us?
You state that the costs will be passed on to "us"... For this and future projects... Of course you do understand that this is case as it is in ANY other electrical generating utility that services us?
The fact is... Anything we purchase... The construction/maintenance/insurance etc. etc... Are ALL passed on to the consumer over the expected lifecycle of the entity providing the goods.
Why should this be any different?
I am wondering just who you feel Cape Wind should be discussing any costs with besides the reviewing agencies?
The site HAS been shown to be "perfect by wind standards"... Based on current technologies available to move forward NOW.
You and a few others seem to suggest there are other sites nearby which will provide an economically and technologically pheasable installation... Why not share those sites with us?
You state that the costs will be passed on to "us"... For this and future projects... Of course you do understand that this is case as it is in ANY other electrical generating utility that services us?
The fact is... Anything we purchase... The construction/maintenance/insurance etc. etc... Are ALL passed on to the consumer over the expected lifecycle of the entity providing the goods.
Why should this be any different?
Rhode Islander [Visitor] writes:
Jack,
How soon do you think this waterpark in Hyannisport will be opening?
How soon do you think this waterpark in Hyannisport will be opening?
Barbara Hill [Visitor] writes:
Rhode Islander -
For some other points of view regarding climate change kindly click on http://www.grist.org/advice/ask/2006/04/19/climate_info/index.html?source=umbra
You will see these are not big crusading journalists. And George Will would off course bring up the money that offsetting climate change would cost as it relates to money for schools. That is a typical George Will scare tactic and the situation is so complex that it can't be boiled down to schools or climate change. Where George Will lives he won't have to worry about that - all the schools are air conditioned and they arn't in a path of potential massive Categroy 5 Hurricane.
For some other points of view regarding climate change kindly click on http://www.grist.org/advice/ask/2006/04/19/climate_info/index.html?source=umbra
You will see these are not big crusading journalists. And George Will would off course bring up the money that offsetting climate change would cost as it relates to money for schools. That is a typical George Will scare tactic and the situation is so complex that it can't be boiled down to schools or climate change. Where George Will lives he won't have to worry about that - all the schools are air conditioned and they arn't in a path of potential massive Categroy 5 Hurricane.
Magical Eye [Member] writes:
Barbara Hill "in the path of potential massive category 5 hurricane" sounds like a scare tactic to me... And yes the situation is so complex that it can't be boiled down to Cape Wind as an answer that is for sure.
Little Fish in a BIG POND [Visitor] writes:
Ok, so let's say that Google doesn't work and I have to take your word for it. So I couldn't possibly look up the meeting summaries and quote what was said in several of them and I thought all along part of the argument was that this was holding other sites around the counntry from being developed. (but now you say they don't exist).
So Ok let's assume that this is a MAGICAL place. No place else like it on the planet. It is a gem of the ocean. Why should Jim Gordon or any one else get the right to exploit such a marvelous anomaly? Should it not be preserved if it is this much of a miracle mile?
Before you toss back the rhetoric remember something those are national waters which mean they belong to every citizen of the country. How dare any of you propose to aid and abet the exploitation of our resources for your private gain. You who sit back waiting to ease your minds and some grease your palms by letting an ugly monstrosity of an industrial wind power plant in our beautiful backyard?
Is it ok if I bring my dogs over to crap on your lawn, it's the only place they want.
So Ok let's assume that this is a MAGICAL place. No place else like it on the planet. It is a gem of the ocean. Why should Jim Gordon or any one else get the right to exploit such a marvelous anomaly? Should it not be preserved if it is this much of a miracle mile?
Before you toss back the rhetoric remember something those are national waters which mean they belong to every citizen of the country. How dare any of you propose to aid and abet the exploitation of our resources for your private gain. You who sit back waiting to ease your minds and some grease your palms by letting an ugly monstrosity of an industrial wind power plant in our beautiful backyard?
Is it ok if I bring my dogs over to crap on your lawn, it's the only place they want.
Rhode Islander [Visitor] writes:
Great point Little Fish.
Cape Wind proponents should read what Bill McKibben, major wind power crusader, is now saying about protecting the Vermont landscape.
It's in today's Boston Globe.
"Vermont's Wildlands Deserve Better Protection"
http://www.boston.com/news/globe/editorial_opinion/oped/articles/2006/04/20/vermonts_wildlands_deserve_better_protection/
Cape Wind proponents should read what Bill McKibben, major wind power crusader, is now saying about protecting the Vermont landscape.
It's in today's Boston Globe.
"Vermont's Wildlands Deserve Better Protection"
http://www.boston.com/news/globe/editorial_opinion/oped/articles/2006/04/20/vermonts_wildlands_deserve_better_protection/
Little Fish in a BIG POND [Visitor] writes:
With all due respect I hope the unwilling and the unknowing don't believe that anything with and Army Corps of Engineer rubber stamp is gospel.
Remember some recent events....
"The floodwall on New Orleans' 17th Street Canal levee was destined to fail long before it reached its maximum design load of 14 feet of water because the Army Corps of Engineers underestimated the weak soil layers 10 to 25 feet below the levee, Louisiana's forensic levee investigation team concluded in a draft copy of a report expected to be released next week.
That miscalculation was so obvious and fundamental, investigators said, they "could not fathom" how the design team of engineers from the corps, local firm Eustis Engineering and the national firm Modjeski and Masters could have missed what is being termed the costliest engineering mistake in American history"
Remember some recent events....
"The floodwall on New Orleans' 17th Street Canal levee was destined to fail long before it reached its maximum design load of 14 feet of water because the Army Corps of Engineers underestimated the weak soil layers 10 to 25 feet below the levee, Louisiana's forensic levee investigation team concluded in a draft copy of a report expected to be released next week.
That miscalculation was so obvious and fundamental, investigators said, they "could not fathom" how the design team of engineers from the corps, local firm Eustis Engineering and the national firm Modjeski and Masters could have missed what is being termed the costliest engineering mistake in American history"
Little Fish in a BIG POND [Visitor] writes:
Or how about this testimony given by an Oregon Congressman in June of 2002...
"Last week, the General Accounting Office issued a document which illustrates why Corps reform is urgently needed, especially a new process for independent review of Corps projects. The GAO report specifically examined the Corps' economic justification for the Delaware River channel deepening project. It found ``miscalculations, invalid assumptions and outdated information'' led the Corps to overestimate the project benefits by over 300 percent. It found that the Corps had violated basic economic principles in its economic feasibility studies, projecting benefits of over $40 million a year, when, in fact, the GAO found the benefits would be approximately one-third of that amount.
According to the GAO, the Corps had ``misapplied commodity growth rate projections, miscalculated trade route distances, and continued to include benefits for some import and export traffic that has declined dramatically over the last decade."
"Last week, the General Accounting Office issued a document which illustrates why Corps reform is urgently needed, especially a new process for independent review of Corps projects. The GAO report specifically examined the Corps' economic justification for the Delaware River channel deepening project. It found ``miscalculations, invalid assumptions and outdated information'' led the Corps to overestimate the project benefits by over 300 percent. It found that the Corps had violated basic economic principles in its economic feasibility studies, projecting benefits of over $40 million a year, when, in fact, the GAO found the benefits would be approximately one-third of that amount.
According to the GAO, the Corps had ``misapplied commodity growth rate projections, miscalculated trade route distances, and continued to include benefits for some import and export traffic that has declined dramatically over the last decade."
Barbara Hill [Visitor] writes:
Magical -
Category Five is no scare tactic it is the truth - we all saw what it did and as Richard Cohen said in his Washington Post column Katrina is prologue not past. Also, I've said Cape Wind is not the answer but if it passes muster with all the regulatory reveiw than it should be permitted. It is not an answer but a start in the right direction.
Little Fish -
All too true. However, it doesn't discount the truth of more storms, more powerful storms and more devastation. This, some believe, is due to climate change factors. Everytime a storm hits the Gulf of Mexico the platforms in the Gulf shut down. We then rely more heavily on imports. Our prices spike. Just look at the last hurricane season. We need to start somewhere. What do you suggest?
Category Five is no scare tactic it is the truth - we all saw what it did and as Richard Cohen said in his Washington Post column Katrina is prologue not past. Also, I've said Cape Wind is not the answer but if it passes muster with all the regulatory reveiw than it should be permitted. It is not an answer but a start in the right direction.
Little Fish -
All too true. However, it doesn't discount the truth of more storms, more powerful storms and more devastation. This, some believe, is due to climate change factors. Everytime a storm hits the Gulf of Mexico the platforms in the Gulf shut down. We then rely more heavily on imports. Our prices spike. Just look at the last hurricane season. We need to start somewhere. What do you suggest?
LOL [Visitor] writes:
Barbara,
I suggest we not 'start' by industrializing the center of Nantucket Sound.
I suggest we not 'start' by industrializing the center of Nantucket Sound.
Barbara Hill [Visitor] writes:
LOL
Then, once again, I'll ask the question what do you suggest. Kindly suggest what we should do and who is going to do it? Our government can't be counted on so we must rely on the private sector and no one in this country is going to try because most of the political will has been directed in NO but not offering a suggestion. What do we do? I welcome your idea....
Then, once again, I'll ask the question what do you suggest. Kindly suggest what we should do and who is going to do it? Our government can't be counted on so we must rely on the private sector and no one in this country is going to try because most of the political will has been directed in NO but not offering a suggestion. What do we do? I welcome your idea....
Magical Eye [Member] writes:
Barbara Hill, as you know we strongly disagree. It is a start in the WRONG direction. The middle of the beautiful Nantucket Sound is the LAST place it should go around here not the FIRST.
Magical Eye [Member] writes:
Barbara H... The middle of the Nantucket Sound is the LAST place for a number of reasons not the least of which is public safety as in the radar interference issues... a HUGE elephant in the living room that Cape Wind refuses to acknowledge in ANY way. That alone tells us that Cape Wind is not sincere when it represents itself as an entity concerned with the people's and the environments welfare. Tell us please what you think about their refusal to acknowledge this vital issue.
Barbara Durkin [Visitor] writes:
Magical:
Public safety issues presented by Cape Wind are not new, as you are well aware. "The truth will out," as you frequently say, is coming to fruition.
Cape Wind has been keeping score during the application process.
Cape Wind opponents are keeping score, too.
*There has been no finding that this project is environmentally sound by state or federal agencies.
*The DEIS was found to be “grossly deficient” by federal agencies, and was given a ‘Category 3—Inadequate rating by the EPA Region 1.
*The state MA has issued a preliminary approval, (which is as meaningful as preliminary disapproval), on the cable portion of the project.
*The MA Executive Office of Environmental Affairs also noted significant shortcomings in the DEIS and returned with a 26 page decision outlining additional work to be addressed by the applicant.
The FAA is revisting Cape Wind as wind "farms" create radar interference. Now that's acknowledgement!
Public safety issues presented by Cape Wind are not new, as you are well aware. "The truth will out," as you frequently say, is coming to fruition.
Cape Wind has been keeping score during the application process.
Cape Wind opponents are keeping score, too.
*There has been no finding that this project is environmentally sound by state or federal agencies.
*The DEIS was found to be “grossly deficient” by federal agencies, and was given a ‘Category 3—Inadequate rating by the EPA Region 1.
*The state MA has issued a preliminary approval, (which is as meaningful as preliminary disapproval), on the cable portion of the project.
*The MA Executive Office of Environmental Affairs also noted significant shortcomings in the DEIS and returned with a 26 page decision outlining additional work to be addressed by the applicant.
The FAA is revisting Cape Wind as wind "farms" create radar interference. Now that's acknowledgement!
Barbara Hill [Visitor] writes:
Magical -
Cape Wind knows better than all of us that it has to pass a rigourous review and that if there is a fatal flaw it won't be permitted. And as Barbara Durkin quotes you, "The truth will out." If it doesn't pass the environmental thresholds it won't get permitted it won't get financed and it won't get built. I trust the agencies involved in the review and trust that they will do a fine job. It it comes down to the FAA not issuing a "go" then this blog will come to an end and we'll all focus on something else. But if this process is somehow stopped without the full review for the WRONG REASONS then there will be no one else who will step forward in this country to do anything in regards to large scale renewables. We'll see photos of President Romney breaking a bottle of champagne on the next nuclear plant built somewhere close to us - because we need the energy and we don't want fossil fuels or can't get them. That to me is a great deal more frightening than building a wind farm in Nantucket Sound.
Cape Wind knows better than all of us that it has to pass a rigourous review and that if there is a fatal flaw it won't be permitted. And as Barbara Durkin quotes you, "The truth will out." If it doesn't pass the environmental thresholds it won't get permitted it won't get financed and it won't get built. I trust the agencies involved in the review and trust that they will do a fine job. It it comes down to the FAA not issuing a "go" then this blog will come to an end and we'll all focus on something else. But if this process is somehow stopped without the full review for the WRONG REASONS then there will be no one else who will step forward in this country to do anything in regards to large scale renewables. We'll see photos of President Romney breaking a bottle of champagne on the next nuclear plant built somewhere close to us - because we need the energy and we don't want fossil fuels or can't get them. That to me is a great deal more frightening than building a wind farm in Nantucket Sound.
Magical Eye [Member] writes:
Barbara H... I appreciate your concerns but the reasons it should be stopped are already there so what is the point of wasting more time and money on it?
Barbara Hill [Visitor] writes:
Magical -
I don't agree that the reasons it should be stopped are already there. I trust the process and Cape Wind has a right to due process.
I don't agree that the reasons it should be stopped are already there. I trust the process and Cape Wind has a right to due process.
Barbara Durkin [Visitor] writes:
Magical:
How well said.
Barbara Hill:
There is trust and there is blind faith, and neither has a place in business dealings. This falls into the line of thinking that a contract is only worth the piece of paper it is written on.
It is in our interest as citizens to closely monitor agencies of federal government holding in trust our public finite resources, lest we complain about our resource disposition.
The applicant, Cape Wind, is the entity that you should take your concerns to with regard to the failure of the industry to advance in the US. Perhaps if Cape Wind had selected the appropriate site, the entire industry would have been in a better position.
Cape Wind stood to gain possession of Nantucket Sound. It you don't think that $20,000 was worth the risk, I would ask you to reconsider the value of 24 square miles of ocean real estate.
The Nantucket Independent today's letters, Conservation Law Foundation's letter to Interior Secretary Gail Norton that translates in fine print: we want to pay 1/15,360 the value of the ocean real estate as rent.
How well said.
Barbara Hill:
There is trust and there is blind faith, and neither has a place in business dealings. This falls into the line of thinking that a contract is only worth the piece of paper it is written on.
It is in our interest as citizens to closely monitor agencies of federal government holding in trust our public finite resources, lest we complain about our resource disposition.
The applicant, Cape Wind, is the entity that you should take your concerns to with regard to the failure of the industry to advance in the US. Perhaps if Cape Wind had selected the appropriate site, the entire industry would have been in a better position.
Cape Wind stood to gain possession of Nantucket Sound. It you don't think that $20,000 was worth the risk, I would ask you to reconsider the value of 24 square miles of ocean real estate.
The Nantucket Independent today's letters, Conservation Law Foundation's letter to Interior Secretary Gail Norton that translates in fine print: we want to pay 1/15,360 the value of the ocean real estate as rent.
Barbara Durkin [Visitor] writes:
Sorry, correction, a typo on the Cape Wind investment figure, should be $20 million, or so. I entered $20,000,(equally insulting)
Does anyone ever wonder how much of the $20 million might be taxpayers money?
Does anyone ever wonder how much of the $20 million might be taxpayers money?
Little Fish, Th. D. [Visitor] writes:
Home in NY and of course took the route past the Buzzard Bay backyard blight. In contrast as I drove through the scenic beauty of the Hudson Valley, I just could not imagine anything like that sticking out like the proverbial "sore thumb".
As Barbara D has often reminded us, the "devil in in the details". Details that proponents here refuse to discuss out right. They matter! If people believe this is the right idea then why aren't they demanding their power companies do this. According to information published by the AWEA wind power "costs" depend on ownership and financing;
"Overall, Wiser and Kahn estimate wind power costs, depending on ownership and financing method, as follows:
Private ownership, project financing: 4.95 cents/kWh including PTC, 6.56 cents/kWh without PTC.
IOU ownership, corporate financing: 3.53 cents/kWh including PTC, 5.9 cents/kWh without.
Public utility ownership, internal financing: 2.88 cents/kWh including REPI, 4.35 cents/kWh without.
Public utility ownership, project financing: 3.43 cents/kWh including REPI, 4.89 cents/kWh without."
As Barbara D has often reminded us, the "devil in in the details". Details that proponents here refuse to discuss out right. They matter! If people believe this is the right idea then why aren't they demanding their power companies do this. According to information published by the AWEA wind power "costs" depend on ownership and financing;
"Overall, Wiser and Kahn estimate wind power costs, depending on ownership and financing method, as follows:
Private ownership, project financing: 4.95 cents/kWh including PTC, 6.56 cents/kWh without PTC.
IOU ownership, corporate financing: 3.53 cents/kWh including PTC, 5.9 cents/kWh without.
Public utility ownership, internal financing: 2.88 cents/kWh including REPI, 4.35 cents/kWh without.
Public utility ownership, project financing: 3.43 cents/kWh including REPI, 4.89 cents/kWh without."
Little Fish, Th. D. [Visitor] writes:
Further the AWEA reports;
"Assuming that the installed and general O&M costs are equal in all ownership scenarios . . . we conclude that utility ownership of windpower facilities results in a significantly lower estimated levelized cost of energy. Compared to the private ownership, project-finance structure, IOU ownership reduces apparent levelized costs by approximately 30% (1.4 cents/kWh)."
So I just have a hard time swallowing that this project makes the most sense because all the principles that make sense are not being applied. If this is the "OPTIMUM" site and you believe that to be true then you should be demanding your utility companies do it to keep the costs down and provide the maximum potential for the investment and forfeiture of the scenic value. But of course we aren't going to debate that because that would be too much like right and most just want to see it built not built the "right way" if it has to be at all.
Barbara Hill you are reasonable and an answer to your question is within reason. Biofuels for starters as Brazil has done for over 30 years.
"Assuming that the installed and general O&M costs are equal in all ownership scenarios . . . we conclude that utility ownership of windpower facilities results in a significantly lower estimated levelized cost of energy. Compared to the private ownership, project-finance structure, IOU ownership reduces apparent levelized costs by approximately 30% (1.4 cents/kWh)."
So I just have a hard time swallowing that this project makes the most sense because all the principles that make sense are not being applied. If this is the "OPTIMUM" site and you believe that to be true then you should be demanding your utility companies do it to keep the costs down and provide the maximum potential for the investment and forfeiture of the scenic value. But of course we aren't going to debate that because that would be too much like right and most just want to see it built not built the "right way" if it has to be at all.
Barbara Hill you are reasonable and an answer to your question is within reason. Biofuels for starters as Brazil has done for over 30 years.
Anonymous [Visitor] writes:
Power plants should only be located where there are poor black people, not rich white people.
Magical Eye [Member] writes:
Shame on you Anonymous.
Please visit these local CapeCodToday sponsors:
Joyce Landscaping
Full service residential and commercial landscape company offering custom design and all facets of construction and maintenance services. Servicing clients throughout southeastern Massachusetts. (Barnstable)
Full service residential and commercial landscape company offering custom design and all facets of construction and maintenance services. Servicing clients throughout southeastern Massachusetts. (Barnstable)
TreeScapes Cape Cod, Inc.
Fully licensed and insured arborist providing expert affordable tree removal and services including trimming, disease control, fertilizing and planting. Over 20 years experience on Cape Cod. (Barnstable)
Fully licensed and insured arborist providing expert affordable tree removal and services including trimming, disease control, fertilizing and planting. Over 20 years experience on Cape Cod. (Barnstable)
IMPORTANT NOTICE FOR COMMENTORS & BLOGGERS: CapeCodToday now requires a one-time validation of your
account email. When logging in or registering for the first time, you will be emailed a link to click that will validate your
email and complete your login. The link in the email must be clicked in the same session when you are logged into the site for security purposes
(i.e. retrieve the email right away and do not close your web browser).
This is a one-time-only process (or if you change the email on your account), and will help CCToday keep out the spammers. If you cannot validate your email because it is invalid, and you are a legitimate user, feel free to contact us and we will update your account to your current email.
This is a one-time-only process (or if you change the email on your account), and will help CCToday keep out the spammers. If you cannot validate your email because it is invalid, and you are a legitimate user, feel free to contact us and we will update your account to your current email.
Please Login or Register to leave a comment. There are 3,358 registered commenters!
CapeCodToday requires readers register an account with us in order to post comments. Become a trusted commenter and receive the benefits of posting instantly throughout the site. It's quick and easy!
Please note: If you are a CapeCodToday registered blogger, you can use your blogger login. Your login for the blogs is separate from your CapeCodToday main site login (if you have one).
Previous/Next posts in this blog
About This Blog
Honored as NY State's first Master Wild Life Rehabilitator, Dona Tracy is a Freelance Photographer, Wildlife Advocate, Writer, Public Speaker and Dreamer. She lives in Ostervile and also writes another blog called Magic Eye.
Recent Comments
- At this point:
"And here's another thing Uncle ronnie did as
3 hrs, 10 mins ago - Sure you don't want to add anything more?
3 hrs, 18 mins ago - Unlike Obama, who can't blow his nose without being harangued
3 hrs, 23 mins ago - Hi, Buzz
Khalid will get as fair a trial in NYC
4 hrs, 31 mins ago - Troy, You look like you were pwned on the email
5 hrs, 53 mins ago
- site sponsors -
CCT Blog List
Blogs with posts in the past 60 days are listed here in order of newest posts. For a list of all blogs, visit Blogs A to Z
- Newest Blog Posts
- Newest Comments
- Cape Cod History
- Entering Falmouth
- Long Bridge Runner
- Bill Snowden's Blog
- Police and Fire News
- Cape & Islands News
- Latimer on Law
- Entering Bourne
- Cape Yoga
- Wellfleet Bay Sanctuary
- The Ballyard
- EXTRA...
- The Poet's Perspective
- Cape Cod Rock Hopper
- Editorial
- Media Watch
- Mr. Mom I am not
- Politicalendar
- Cheap Eats
- Rep. Jeff Perry in His Own Words
- The Belly Check
- Conservative's Conscience
- Mahler's Music Notes
- Historic Harwich
- Off-the-Shelf
- Ned Sonntag
- Literary Pop
- Boston Bureau
- Frugal Internet Marketing
- Cape Native
- Sea Street
- Rog's Gallery
- State of Cape Cod
- Town Notes
- Solon Economou
- Cape Cod Barrister
- Cape Eyes
- CapeCodToday Arts Calendar
- One Day at a Time
- Cape Cod Tracker
- DIY Marketing
- Trail Hound
- Letters to the Editor
- Project I.E.P.
- Op-Ed
- Through a Washashore's Eyes
- Travel Tales
- CapeCodToday Featured Event
- Off Cape
- Bismore Park
- My day
- The Natural
- Buckley's Blog
- Eastham Windmill
- Washington Window
- Seufert's Scenes
- Massachusetts Paranormal Institute
- Cape Cod Pets
- Reflections on a Quarter-life Crisis
- Myrbie & Dax
Archives
- April 2006 (5)
- March 2006 (6)
- February 2006 (9)
- January 2006 (35)
- December 2005 (9)
Become a CapeCodToday Blogger!
Are you passionate about your community? Do you blog or at least harbor thoughts of doing so?
If so, CapeCodToday.com would like to host your blog on our CapeCodToday weblog publishing platform.
Blog Newsfeed
CapeCodToday uses standard web "newsfeeds" (RSS) to automatically update the latest blog entries in your browser or newsreader.
Use any of the links below in your newsreader or web browser to get "Against the Wind" postings delivered to you, or use the RSS icon in your browser's address bar.
"Just say no," by the way, sounds a tad familiar.