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Danes buying 1/3 of former electric price
08/31/06 · 6:20 am :: posted by CCToday
Wind power symposium clears the air about Danish wind farms
Family cat turn out to be biggest problem for birds
A jam-packed lecture hall at Cape Cod Community College last night heard an enlightening and convincing presentation by a Danish expert on Denmark’s use of wind power.
The symposium and panel discussion, sponsored by Greenpeace America, featured as chief guest speaker Jens Larsen, Director of the Copenhagen Environment and Energy Office and project manager for Denmark’s Middelgrunden offshore wind project. Panelists also included Richard Elrick, a Nantucket Sound ferryboat captain of 25 years and President of Clean Power Now, and Jack Clarke, Director of Public Policy and Government Relations for Mass Audubon.
Jens Larsen’s presentation showed how:
- As Denmark’s power infrastructure has become more decentralized and green over the years, CO2 emissions have been driven down even as the country’s GDP has risen.
- Power costs have decreased from 13 cents US per KWh in 1984 to 4.5 cents per KWh in 2006.
- The percentage of the country’s energy provided by wind power stood at 20.8% in 2004.
- Practically all Danes participate in wind power ownership, with 58% of the country’s 5000 turbines owned by individuals and 24% by collectives; (in the case of the Middelgrunden wind farm outside Copenhagen harbor, the total number of owners is 8500)
- Danish public opinion in 2006 is solidly behind wind power, with 91% in favor of more installations.
- The opinion of the Middelgrunden wind farm held by tourists is 71% positive.
- Wind farms have caused no problems with air traffic radar.
- There have been no permanent effects on ecology by wind farms.
- Operators of wind turbines are assured of a market for their power, since Danish law mandates that the power grid accept connections to all turbines.
Larsen explained that fishermen typically disliked offshore wind installations, considering that they were inconsistent with the natural state of the sea in which the fishermen worked. However, they continued to work the sea in the area of such installations.
After the presentation, Richard Elrick of Clean Power Now briefly stated his reasons for supporting the Cape & Islands’ Wind Farm, reminding the audience that he had plied the waters of Nantucket Sound professionally for many years. Jack Clarke of Mass Audubon summarized his organization’s position on this project as having found, after a preliminary assessment, no evidence of long-term adverse impact on avian life. He also warned that this assessment was conditioned on the results of further studies.
During the subsequent Q&A session, Clarke was asked to clarify Audubon’s financial interest in the Nantucket Sound project, to which he replied that, as a non-profit organization, it had no such interest.
Turbine-caused bird deaths, boat accidents, "Zero"
As questioning on the subject of bird mortality continued, Mr. Larsen pointed out that the real threat to wildlife was habitat destruction—a result of fossil fuel pollution—not turbine collisions. Clarke added that the birdkill caused by turbines was likely to be insignificant compared to the “trillions” killed by housecats, tall buildings and telecom towers. When both speakers were asked how many birds were known to have been killed by Danish wind farms, the answer was “zero.”
In response to a question on why the proposed Cape & Islands’ wind farm needed to be so large, and sited offshore instead of on land, Elrick explained that in order to meet the President’s goal of 20% of our country’s energy from renewable sources, small installations of one or two turbines would not suffice. Many utility-scale projects, typically at sea where the wind is strongest and most reliable, would be needed in the years to come.
The final question of the evening, addressed to Mr. Larsen, was about the number of boat collisions recorded in fifteen years of experience with offshore turbine structures in Danish waters. Jens Larsen looked momentarily puzzled, then responded: “zero.”
59 comments
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Chuck [Member] writes:
The fact that Cape Wind is going to make money on this installation, to me, is irrelevant. Look at the corporations behind coal and oil leases on federal land (and offshore) who are paying pennies on the dollar for the right to rip the tops off mountains and pour tons of toxic runoff into surrounding waterways and CO2 into the atmosphere.
We live in a capitalist society. Cape Wind has already sunk millions into research, development and, no doubt, some lobbying. It will cost millions more to actually build the turbines. Eventually, if the company has done it's homework, it will turn a profit. That's how it works in the U.S.
I'm more than willing to listen to solid environmental evidence against the wind farm, but curse a private company because they're going to turn a profit? That's just the way our system works.
We live in a capitalist society. Cape Wind has already sunk millions into research, development and, no doubt, some lobbying. It will cost millions more to actually build the turbines. Eventually, if the company has done it's homework, it will turn a profit. That's how it works in the U.S.
I'm more than willing to listen to solid environmental evidence against the wind farm, but curse a private company because they're going to turn a profit? That's just the way our system works.
Chuck Kleekamp [Member] writes:
It would be nice if folks used their last names as well. Let it be known the the above"Chuck" is not Chuck Kleekamp.
Regards,
Chuck Kleekamp
Regards,
Chuck Kleekamp
CapeCodGuy2 [Member] writes:
Im sure the Alliance will say that Nantucket Sound isnt Denmark and the turbines will kill thousands of birds and nurmerous boat collisions will occur. Just waiting for their spin...
Stopcapewind [Member] writes:
thanks Capri, I wasn't able to make the talk, but I figured there was more to the story, then the capelandgrab side. The fact the Mr.. Larsen says they have had zero bird kills, makes it obvious that he is just a paid cape wind marketer, not an independent speaker.
theBike45 [Member] writes:
The concerns about birds is in virtually all cases totally without merit. As mentioned, the number of birds killed in the US by windows, utility line electrocutions, cats, automobiles . etc. exceeds 2 BILLION per year in the US. Twice weekly surveys of hundreds of US turbines have demonstrated that in thetypical case, fewer than 1 bird per turbine are casualties. Only in certain
locations where tens of thousands of
bats migrate are any significant number
of casulaties encountered - perhaps 1 or 2 hundred during the migration. This is a totally insignificant number in terms of the populations involved and the number of birds transitting the wind turbines. There obviously needs to be
Federal legislation that prevents locals
from obstructing wind turbine siting.
The same invalid red herring arguments care voiced by local self defined environmentalists or ignorant bird lovers who ignore the vast bulk of evidence, and cite some obscure claimed problem halfway around the world concerning an obscure species. Wind turbine blades typically rotate at a leisurely 16 RPM.
locations where tens of thousands of
bats migrate are any significant number
of casulaties encountered - perhaps 1 or 2 hundred during the migration. This is a totally insignificant number in terms of the populations involved and the number of birds transitting the wind turbines. There obviously needs to be
Federal legislation that prevents locals
from obstructing wind turbine siting.
The same invalid red herring arguments care voiced by local self defined environmentalists or ignorant bird lovers who ignore the vast bulk of evidence, and cite some obscure claimed problem halfway around the world concerning an obscure species. Wind turbine blades typically rotate at a leisurely 16 RPM.
samjaffe [Member] writes:
I do not live in Cape Cod. I used to spend two weeks each summer with my family on vacation in Cape Cod. I refuse to do so now. The residents of Cape Cod are shooting themselves in both feet by opposing a clean, renewable energy source that has been proven harmless to birds, people and fish. It is inevitable that if you continue to value a nice view over the damage you are doing to the Earth (including the fish populations that will be wiped out in the next few decades thanks to global warming) by using fossil fuels, it's inevitable that a nationwide boycott of your tourist facilities will follow. Offshore wind farming will become a huge industry throughout the globe, far bigger than fishing, in terms of revenue and jobs. Cape Cod had a chance to lead the world. Instead, the community that I grew to love as a visitor has shown that small-minded politics can win out over doing the right thing. Cape Cod was a part of my life and I looked forward to making it a part of my childrens' lives. That's not going to happen now. How many more will make the same decision that I did?
Stopcapewind [Member] writes:
My point wasn't that the bird kill issue was the most pressing objection to this industrial complex, the point was if Mr. Larsen say's they have had zero bird kills, he is just plain lying, and that shows his credibility.
As far as samjaffe goes please don't come, less tourist sounds great to me.
As far as samjaffe goes please don't come, less tourist sounds great to me.
lenstewart [Member] writes:
I agree with Chuck above. We act as if private use of public property never happens anywhere else. But, it does, in our national parks, forests, and BLM landholdings all over the West.
Frankly, I wish we encouraged more public power generation, but that doesn't seem to be the way of the way we do things around here. TVA raised and maintains the standard of living for millions of Americans. Rural electric companies are owned by user Co-ops, and that's a great model, too. But, we here in the East don't seem to have taken to the Co-op idea like those "socialist" Scandinavian-Americans in the Mid-west and plains states. Here, private companies are who produces the power we need to exist.
Frankly, I wish we encouraged more public power generation, but that doesn't seem to be the way of the way we do things around here. TVA raised and maintains the standard of living for millions of Americans. Rural electric companies are owned by user Co-ops, and that's a great model, too. But, we here in the East don't seem to have taken to the Co-op idea like those "socialist" Scandinavian-Americans in the Mid-west and plains states. Here, private companies are who produces the power we need to exist.
Achilles [Member] writes:
Capri, were you maybe in Lecture Hall B while the rest of us were in Hall A? The only negatives last night were the reactions of most of the audience to the self-aggrandizing posturing done by some of the questioners. Almost all of them had to be told by the facilitator to stop grandstanding and ask their question. Had they done so in the first place, we might have learned more from the panel.
And since the tone of some of those questions was exemplified by the one in which the representative of a non-profit organization was asked what their financial interest in the commercial project was, we were doubly cheated.
Does last night count as a victory for you guys? If so, fold your tents now.
And since the tone of some of those questions was exemplified by the one in which the representative of a non-profit organization was asked what their financial interest in the commercial project was, we were doubly cheated.
Does last night count as a victory for you guys? If so, fold your tents now.
neil good [Member] writes:
Last night’s presentation was far from convincing Chris. Read a more accurate assessment of Danish wind power here;
"Wind Power Report Shows Facts Instead of Myths"
http://www.absenergyresearch.com/cmsfiles/reports/Wind-Power-Report-2006.pdf
Excerpts-
”…this report highlights studies that raise critical concerns challenging some of the claims made for wind power. Badly needed evidence is now available after three years of large scale operation of wind turbines in five countries...”
“…these studies are the first real evidence showing how wind actually works, as opposed to what has been claimed.”
“...reports from E.On Netz, the [German] system operator with the largest wind power feed-in in the world, and Eltra of Denmark, which had the largest percentage wind power contribution, show disturbing results."
"Among bombshells, the study suggests that while wind power capacity will reach 48 GW by 2020 in Germany, the source is so intermittent and unreliable that it is equivalent to only 2 GW of stable fossil fuel capacity."
"Wind Power Report Shows Facts Instead of Myths"
http://www.absenergyresearch.com/cmsfiles/reports/Wind-Power-Report-2006.pdf
Excerpts-
”…this report highlights studies that raise critical concerns challenging some of the claims made for wind power. Badly needed evidence is now available after three years of large scale operation of wind turbines in five countries...”
“…these studies are the first real evidence showing how wind actually works, as opposed to what has been claimed.”
“...reports from E.On Netz, the [German] system operator with the largest wind power feed-in in the world, and Eltra of Denmark, which had the largest percentage wind power contribution, show disturbing results."
"Among bombshells, the study suggests that while wind power capacity will reach 48 GW by 2020 in Germany, the source is so intermittent and unreliable that it is equivalent to only 2 GW of stable fossil fuel capacity."
PeterWhite [Member] writes:
We need a Renewable Energy Plan for Cape Cod and the Islands!! If elected, I will bring together all the renewable energy advocates and community representatives to devise one. We have a gold mine of wind, solar, and ocean energy that is wasted every day, while our troops die in the War for OIL in Iraq, our planet becomes more polluted, our health problems and costs double due to fossil fuels, and our energy bills go up and up!! We need elected officials who will LEAD!!!
Stopcapewind [Member] writes:
let's just hope it's not you, because you have no clue.
Monponsett [Member] writes:
Peter... haven't you been listening to Jack? Oil has nothing to do with the Iraq war. In fact, you're a traitor for saying so. Would you like 6 loops or 9 on your noose?
YoungCaper [Member] writes:
Whoooooooooah...who writes these reports for Cape Cod Today? Were you st the same event my wife and I were last night?
"A jam-packed lecture hall at Cape Cod Community College last night heard an enlightening and convincing presentation by a Danish expert on Denmark’s use of wind power."
I'd say from the mood and response of the audience I was part of there last night that not many were either "enligtened" or "convinced" at all by what the "expert" from Denmark or other panelists presented.
I'm from Wash, DC and would say that most last night were bitterly opposed to your local Cape Wind project -- and from the fervor I witnessed -- this project will NEVER happen around these parts.
Who reports on these issues? Why are you trying to mislead the public with these headlines and articles? Is this journalism or propaganda?
I don't know if I would be pro or against the project -- but if this is an example of the credibility of its supporters, I'd be very cautious!
Good luck.
"A jam-packed lecture hall at Cape Cod Community College last night heard an enlightening and convincing presentation by a Danish expert on Denmark’s use of wind power."
I'd say from the mood and response of the audience I was part of there last night that not many were either "enligtened" or "convinced" at all by what the "expert" from Denmark or other panelists presented.
I'm from Wash, DC and would say that most last night were bitterly opposed to your local Cape Wind project -- and from the fervor I witnessed -- this project will NEVER happen around these parts.
Who reports on these issues? Why are you trying to mislead the public with these headlines and articles? Is this journalism or propaganda?
I don't know if I would be pro or against the project -- but if this is an example of the credibility of its supporters, I'd be very cautious!
Good luck.
YoungCaper [Member] writes:
I'm not a permanent resident here on the Cape - perhaps some day in the future.
And I'm not certain how I feel about wind farms, especially GIGANTIC and monstrous ones like that proposed for Cape Cod. But, as a witness to last night's event -- and now a witness to its journalistic coverage here -- I fear for all of you.
Your battle here is much larger than one about a wind farm. Your battle here is even more basic than that. You have a battle about integrity and ethics within your community that looms over all.
If I were the journalist responsible for writing this article on what transpired at the college last evening -- I'd seriously reconsider the profession.
I am a journalist in my hometown and this is simply sad for me to see. All communities deserve objective and accurate reporting of the issues that are vital to its future. This piece is neither.
There's a lot of work to be done around here, and this is just evidence of it.
And I'm not certain how I feel about wind farms, especially GIGANTIC and monstrous ones like that proposed for Cape Cod. But, as a witness to last night's event -- and now a witness to its journalistic coverage here -- I fear for all of you.
Your battle here is much larger than one about a wind farm. Your battle here is even more basic than that. You have a battle about integrity and ethics within your community that looms over all.
If I were the journalist responsible for writing this article on what transpired at the college last evening -- I'd seriously reconsider the profession.
I am a journalist in my hometown and this is simply sad for me to see. All communities deserve objective and accurate reporting of the issues that are vital to its future. This piece is neither.
There's a lot of work to be done around here, and this is just evidence of it.
Stopcapewind [Member] writes:
Yes, YoungCaper, as Capri states this is not objective reporting in ANYWAY. It is mainly as Capewind Marketing arm. Try and find one article that does not try to show support to cape wind on this website. The closest you will come is they reported the Cape Codder Capewind poll and the survey did not favor capewind. They highlight the survey in a previous article, so I think they had no choice but to post them. However, they immediately put up another story saying the poll was invalid. There is no objective reporting on this site plain and simple.
Bobcat872 [Member] writes:
YoungCaper,
I thank you as well for your take on the presentation last night, and on the resulting posts on this website. I could not attend as I live off Cape.
I thought I smelled a rat when I read the opening sentence stating that it was "enlightening and convincing". With all due respect to this website (which for the most part I enjoy), if it's not slanted and partial journalism, then I don't know what is. I am not a journalist, but I know several, and they would never lower themselves.
The overarching theme here is money. Cape Wind is attempting to build a wind farm to theoretically makes lots of money (there is no other reason IMO), this website reports favorably on Cape Wind because they make money on their advertising, and the Mass Audubon Society endorses Cape Wind because they will get the monitoring contract.
I would venture to guess that Cape Wind paid (maybe in part or indirectly) for the Danish contingent to travel, stay, and present favorably on wind energy.
Just my two cents...
I thank you as well for your take on the presentation last night, and on the resulting posts on this website. I could not attend as I live off Cape.
I thought I smelled a rat when I read the opening sentence stating that it was "enlightening and convincing". With all due respect to this website (which for the most part I enjoy), if it's not slanted and partial journalism, then I don't know what is. I am not a journalist, but I know several, and they would never lower themselves.
The overarching theme here is money. Cape Wind is attempting to build a wind farm to theoretically makes lots of money (there is no other reason IMO), this website reports favorably on Cape Wind because they make money on their advertising, and the Mass Audubon Society endorses Cape Wind because they will get the monitoring contract.
I would venture to guess that Cape Wind paid (maybe in part or indirectly) for the Danish contingent to travel, stay, and present favorably on wind energy.
Just my two cents...
CapeCodGuy2 [Member] writes:
Monponsett-Calling Peter white a traitor for speaking his mind is slander and just plain wrong. We all have our opinions and you shouldnt call somone a traitor because he speaks his mind.
As for the birds in Smolna...a total of 10 birds were killed from a total of 65 turbines. So if I do the math cape wind will kill 23 birds a year, better call out the Environmental police for some dead seagulls. I kill that many chickens every month eating at wendys(mmm...tastes like chicken) before anyone calls someone else a traitor or a liar they had dam well have their facts correct. All wind farms cause some impact, so do caol plants, nukes, hell even solar panels block the light to plants causing them to wither and die...big deal
As for the birds in Smolna...a total of 10 birds were killed from a total of 65 turbines. So if I do the math cape wind will kill 23 birds a year, better call out the Environmental police for some dead seagulls. I kill that many chickens every month eating at wendys(mmm...tastes like chicken) before anyone calls someone else a traitor or a liar they had dam well have their facts correct. All wind farms cause some impact, so do caol plants, nukes, hell even solar panels block the light to plants causing them to wither and die...big deal
CapeCodGuy2 [Member] writes:
Excuse me Capri?? youve never eaten a chicken salad sandwich? or a hamburger? or a lobster?? never stepped on a cockroach?? and did you feel bad when you did??
Which facts did I get wrong Capri?? please make a specific point that I have gotten wrong, I will gladly respond and I will admitt a mistake if Ive made one.
Capri- in your previous post you called Jack Clarke an idiot, has a conflict of interest, and is a sellout. I dont have to resort to calling people names when I cant argue a point effectivley.
Which facts did I get wrong Capri?? please make a specific point that I have gotten wrong, I will gladly respond and I will admitt a mistake if Ive made one.
Capri- in your previous post you called Jack Clarke an idiot, has a conflict of interest, and is a sellout. I dont have to resort to calling people names when I cant argue a point effectivley.
Stopcapewind [Member] writes:
CapeCodGuy
Capri- in your previous post you called Jack Clarke an idiot, has a conflict of interest, and is a sellout. I dont have to resort to calling people names when I cant argue a point effectivley.
I don't know if Jack Clarke is an idiot, never met him, but he does have a conflict of interest, and he is selling out to capewind. That fact that they say they are a non profit has nothing to do with it. They still get salaries from MA and MA get money from CW.
Capri- in your previous post you called Jack Clarke an idiot, has a conflict of interest, and is a sellout. I dont have to resort to calling people names when I cant argue a point effectivley.
I don't know if Jack Clarke is an idiot, never met him, but he does have a conflict of interest, and he is selling out to capewind. That fact that they say they are a non profit has nothing to do with it. They still get salaries from MA and MA get money from CW.
Stopcapewind [Member] writes:
Follow the money trail, like MOST of the other capewind propaganda campaign members.
Bobcat872 [Member] writes:
Calculating the number of birds that may be killed by Cape Wind with second grade mathematics is pointless (and by the way, chickens are raised on farms, under controlled circumstances, for human consumption, and no other reason)-Nantucket Sound is not Smolna; different site, different set of circumstances. Nothing on the scale of the proposed wind farm has ever been built, and any attempt by a layperson or yes, even the "experts" at Mass Audubon, to predict what could happen is pointless, too. NOBODY can possibly know what will really happen.
What I do know is this -- The Audubon Society will continue to recruit volunteers to pound stakes and fencing into the sand, and count endangered birds on the beaches of the Cape for no pay, while they line their non-profit bank account with Cape Wind's money. I know, because I did it in college. What a bunch of hypocrites, very sad...
What I do know is this -- The Audubon Society will continue to recruit volunteers to pound stakes and fencing into the sand, and count endangered birds on the beaches of the Cape for no pay, while they line their non-profit bank account with Cape Wind's money. I know, because I did it in college. What a bunch of hypocrites, very sad...
CapeCodGuy2 [Member] writes:
quotation from Capris posting in this Blog
1."Any idiot knows not for profit organizations don't do what they do for free and are always looking for money"
2."Selling out their mission, however, shouldn't be one of the ways they get it"
3."He has been busy sucking up to Cape Wind. Why else? He is by no means impartial. "
For the record CW doesnt pay me a dime...period. Personally I dont like Jim Gordon... However I will debate the pros and cons of the project and not let my personal opinion cloud my judgement.
For the record Im nobodys sellout... I speak my mind an be damned what others think, I dont resort to name calling, and I will admit my mistakes if they are pointed out to me. I have always tried to post in a respectful manner and I ask that others do the same.
Stopcapewind-what exactly and you insinuating??
1."Any idiot knows not for profit organizations don't do what they do for free and are always looking for money"
2."Selling out their mission, however, shouldn't be one of the ways they get it"
3."He has been busy sucking up to Cape Wind. Why else? He is by no means impartial. "
For the record CW doesnt pay me a dime...period. Personally I dont like Jim Gordon... However I will debate the pros and cons of the project and not let my personal opinion cloud my judgement.
For the record Im nobodys sellout... I speak my mind an be damned what others think, I dont resort to name calling, and I will admit my mistakes if they are pointed out to me. I have always tried to post in a respectful manner and I ask that others do the same.
Stopcapewind-what exactly and you insinuating??
CapeCodGuy2 [Member] writes:
Bobcat-you dont know what your talking about.. ever hear of free range chickens??
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/05/11/AR2006051101967.html
a proposed offshore windfarm in texas is going to be over 500 megawatts of insatlled capacity. thats just in the US
As of 2006, the largest offshore wind farm is the Nysted Offshore Wind Farm at Rødsand, located about ten kilometres south of Nysted and thirteen kilometres west of Gedser Denmark. The wind farm consists of seventy two turbines of 2.3 MW, which produces 165.6 MW of power at rated wind speed.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wind_power#Offshore
read it for yourself
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/05/11/AR2006051101967.html
a proposed offshore windfarm in texas is going to be over 500 megawatts of insatlled capacity. thats just in the US
As of 2006, the largest offshore wind farm is the Nysted Offshore Wind Farm at Rødsand, located about ten kilometres south of Nysted and thirteen kilometres west of Gedser Denmark. The wind farm consists of seventy two turbines of 2.3 MW, which produces 165.6 MW of power at rated wind speed.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wind_power#Offshore
read it for yourself
CapeCodGuy2 [Member] writes:
My personal opinion of Jim Gordon will not affect my position regarding Cape Wind. I think CW is a good project and I will debate anyone who thinks otherwise. I will back up my position with facts. Yes CW will kill some birds, hundreds of millions of birds are killed in the US every year. Yes CW is using public land and I hope Jim Gordon pays though the nose for the rights. Yes he will recieve tax credits and other incentives. Jobs will be created from the project. tourism wont suffer, property values wont fall unless its from the forthcoming housing bust.
Monponsett [Member] writes:
CCG... I was goofing on Peter out of sarcasm, as Peter and I seem to be somewhat on the same page as far as Iraq being an oil war.
You can't fault people for eating poultry. Lettuce dies as much as a chicken does when we kill it for food.
Also... CW shouldn't pay you a dime, unless you clean their office after they go home.
You can't fault people for eating poultry. Lettuce dies as much as a chicken does when we kill it for food.
Also... CW shouldn't pay you a dime, unless you clean their office after they go home.
Monponsett [Member] writes:
That last line was sort of unfair. I'm watching the Pats,, and I'm riled up.
I actually ADMIRE that you'd stick up for Peter's right to speak up, when you obviously oppose his views. Rather than poke at you, I'll give you some props instead.
I actually ADMIRE that you'd stick up for Peter's right to speak up, when you obviously oppose his views. Rather than poke at you, I'll give you some props instead.
CapeCodGuy2 [Member] writes:
My apologies Monponsett I didnt realize you were being sarcastion.
Capri- if you call somone a sellout, a suck up and an idiot...well I think thats kinda personal. I dont want to see postings on this forum that call people names when they dont have an opportunity to respond. He may very well be everthing you have said he is, however I dont think its appropriate to post it here. Several people were banned from this site because of name calling, lets not have it happen again
Capri- if you call somone a sellout, a suck up and an idiot...well I think thats kinda personal. I dont want to see postings on this forum that call people names when they dont have an opportunity to respond. He may very well be everthing you have said he is, however I dont think its appropriate to post it here. Several people were banned from this site because of name calling, lets not have it happen again
CapeCodGuy2 [Member] writes:
bad typing "sarcastic"
CapeCodGuy2 [Member] writes:
capri- I was responding to Bobcats post "Nothing on the scale of the proposed wind farm has ever been built" which I dont agree with. I would agree if the largest was say 10 turbines, 72 turbines is about half the size of CW... I consider that to be a similar scale project. There are proposed offshore farms of over 1000 MW... over twice as large as CW.
Monponsett [Member] writes:
I spell "center" as "centre" a lot, so no spelling jokes will be coming from me.
Bobcat872 [Member] writes:
Actually, Jim Gordon will not pay through the nose to use a public resource that belongs to all of us -- he will pay next to nothing, AND collect taxes and subsidies.
Anyone can do a google search and cut and paste a few articles about wind farms on other parts of the world -- this does not mean that you know the facts any more than the next guy.
And, by the way -- I think we'd all be alot more agreeable to a wind farm that was sited 10-13 kilometers from shore (re: Nysted). If I'm not mistaken, some of them actually pay for their use of the ocean, specifically to the communities most affected. Why should we do what Denmark does anyway? I'm sure it's a lovely place, but what makes that country so great that we should emulate them?
Anyone can do a google search and cut and paste a few articles about wind farms on other parts of the world -- this does not mean that you know the facts any more than the next guy.
And, by the way -- I think we'd all be alot more agreeable to a wind farm that was sited 10-13 kilometers from shore (re: Nysted). If I'm not mistaken, some of them actually pay for their use of the ocean, specifically to the communities most affected. Why should we do what Denmark does anyway? I'm sure it's a lovely place, but what makes that country so great that we should emulate them?
CapeCodGuy2 [Member] writes:
Capri-there you go again making things persaonal...my judgement is not clouded in anyway. I used to work in the renewable industry so I know a lot about it. I got out of it because of the politics and nonsense surrounding the industry.
Bobcat-Denmark produces 20% of its electricity demand from renewables...thats something to emulate.
qoute from CW website
Cape Wind will be 5.2 (8.3km)miles from Point Gammon, a private island in South Yarmouth, 5.6 miles from Cotuit, 6.5 miles from Craigville Beach on Cape Cod. Cape Wind will be 9.3(15km) miles from Oak Bluffs and 13.8 (22km)miles from the town of Nantucket. Cape Wind will be farther away from the nearest home than any other electricity generation facility in Massachusetts.
Bobcat quote
And, by the way -- I think we'd all be alot more agreeable to a wind farm that was sited 10-13 kilometers from shore (re: Nysted).
almost the same distance Bobcat..do your homework
Bobcat-Denmark produces 20% of its electricity demand from renewables...thats something to emulate.
qoute from CW website
Cape Wind will be 5.2 (8.3km)miles from Point Gammon, a private island in South Yarmouth, 5.6 miles from Cotuit, 6.5 miles from Craigville Beach on Cape Cod. Cape Wind will be 9.3(15km) miles from Oak Bluffs and 13.8 (22km)miles from the town of Nantucket. Cape Wind will be farther away from the nearest home than any other electricity generation facility in Massachusetts.
Bobcat quote
And, by the way -- I think we'd all be alot more agreeable to a wind farm that was sited 10-13 kilometers from shore (re: Nysted).
almost the same distance Bobcat..do your homework
Bobcat872 [Member] writes:
Yep, and according to you 72 turbines is similar in size to the 130 Cape Wind wants to build...whatever capecodguy
CapeCodGuy2 [Member] writes:
Bobcat- you said not the same scale. 72 turbines is a large project in the industry, 130 is also a large project in the industry. 1-10 machines is a small scale project... I grant that CW is twice the size of the Nysted project but they are both large scaled commercial projects. They both will cost in the hundreds of millions of dollars. I dont agree with everything CW has done, but I believe the project is basically sound. There has never been a windfarm built that somone didnt object too, however after its been build most people say that its not as much of a problem as they thought it would be. Except for Monponsett the mass maratime turbine has been well accepted.
Bobcat872 [Member] writes:
"U.S. wind farms are typically owned and
developed by utilities or large, private
developers who can be perceived as
"outsiders" trying to exploit local resources. Denmark cleverly avoided this by promoting wind turbine ownership by cooperatives, requiring that the members/owners live within a certain distance of the site. At one time, nearly 100,000 Danish families owned wind turbines or shares in wind cooperatives"
A quote from Sparling Engineering (Washington State)-- and one reason the Danes are OK with wind energy, and we are not. Jim Gordon should not personally benefit from grabbing a piece of our national resource.
Just one of the problems with Cape Wind...
developed by utilities or large, private
developers who can be perceived as
"outsiders" trying to exploit local resources. Denmark cleverly avoided this by promoting wind turbine ownership by cooperatives, requiring that the members/owners live within a certain distance of the site. At one time, nearly 100,000 Danish families owned wind turbines or shares in wind cooperatives"
A quote from Sparling Engineering (Washington State)-- and one reason the Danes are OK with wind energy, and we are not. Jim Gordon should not personally benefit from grabbing a piece of our national resource.
Just one of the problems with Cape Wind...
CapeCodGuy2 [Member] writes:
What about oil companies drilling in Alaska wildlife refuges?? or the gulf of mexico? or mining companies stripping mountains, or farmers grazing cattle on public lands. It happens all the time.... CW will pay a lease to use the watersheet just like fishermen pay for a liscense. Just because you dont like the project isnt enough of a reason to stop it. The reason Danes are cool with wind energy is because they care enough about the environment to sign the Kyoto protocols and even invest in their own machines.
Monponsett [Member] writes:
This isn't THAT personal.
I've never seen stuff here that approaches what I take on AOL. I barely get comments on AOL, and I've had like 500,000 hits. Most AOL users go right to the instant message, and it isn't pretty sometimes.
It's not bad when I do Mommy Blogging. Even with people who surf Mommy Blogs for something to get off to have such a large pool of Moms to choose from that it sort of takes a while for the pendulum to get to you.
But when I write about sports, I draw a much more lurid fan base. I taught in pretty tough high schools, and I've seen it all. Still- you'd be amazed, and we can leave it at that. Commentotica.
I also get angrier people. I wrote a piece about the NE/Denver game that was linked to from the popular Mighty MJD site, and I got pounded. Out of maybe 400 hits, I was able to keep 100 without violating AOL's TOS regulations. I went to bed one night, and I woke up with a blog that was essentially porn.
So even when we argue, I'm never really that upset here. It's usually fun. CCT is simply NICER than a larger blog spot. Props to WB and co.
I've never seen stuff here that approaches what I take on AOL. I barely get comments on AOL, and I've had like 500,000 hits. Most AOL users go right to the instant message, and it isn't pretty sometimes.
It's not bad when I do Mommy Blogging. Even with people who surf Mommy Blogs for something to get off to have such a large pool of Moms to choose from that it sort of takes a while for the pendulum to get to you.
But when I write about sports, I draw a much more lurid fan base. I taught in pretty tough high schools, and I've seen it all. Still- you'd be amazed, and we can leave it at that. Commentotica.
I also get angrier people. I wrote a piece about the NE/Denver game that was linked to from the popular Mighty MJD site, and I got pounded. Out of maybe 400 hits, I was able to keep 100 without violating AOL's TOS regulations. I went to bed one night, and I woke up with a blog that was essentially porn.
So even when we argue, I'm never really that upset here. It's usually fun. CCT is simply NICER than a larger blog spot. Props to WB and co.
Monponsett [Member] writes:
Now that I said all that... time to go back to the cancer guy's blog and call Jack a butt-face or something.
neil good [Member] writes:
Don’t be so sure Danes are “cool” with wind power C.C.Guy.
Last night Mr. Jensen referred to a poll done this year in Denmark, intended to gage attitudes towards wind energy. No surprise his spin was all positive, but he was not telling us the whole story. There’s no doubt the poll is the same one described in this Copenhagen Post news article-
“Windmills rule, but not in our neighbourhood”
http://www.cphpost.dk/get/95004.html
“A majority of people support building more electricity generating windmills- just not in their neighbourhood.”
“…Support for construction of the 80m tall towers, however, is suffering from the not-in-my-backyard effect. While 90 percent of all Danes say more mills should be built, municipalities looking to erect new ones often meet with stiff resistance from residents.”
“Most people accept - and are proud of - the economic and environmental benefits associated with windmills, but people living near them complain that the mills spoil their view or that the constant drum of three 27m blades is similar to living to a motorway..."
Last night Mr. Jensen referred to a poll done this year in Denmark, intended to gage attitudes towards wind energy. No surprise his spin was all positive, but he was not telling us the whole story. There’s no doubt the poll is the same one described in this Copenhagen Post news article-
“Windmills rule, but not in our neighbourhood”
http://www.cphpost.dk/get/95004.html
“A majority of people support building more electricity generating windmills- just not in their neighbourhood.”
“…Support for construction of the 80m tall towers, however, is suffering from the not-in-my-backyard effect. While 90 percent of all Danes say more mills should be built, municipalities looking to erect new ones often meet with stiff resistance from residents.”
“Most people accept - and are proud of - the economic and environmental benefits associated with windmills, but people living near them complain that the mills spoil their view or that the constant drum of three 27m blades is similar to living to a motorway..."
Chuck Kleekamp [Member] writes:
On Danish and other European Offshore Wind.
Denmark has 6 offshore windfarms starting 15 years ago. The world’s two largest offshore windfarms, Horns Rev (80 turbines) and Nystead (72 turbines) are privately owned and operated by Danish utilities. Neither had any subsidy from the government for construction. Both are being doubled is size (by private Danish utilities) since they are so successful.
And other countries...
Sweden: 3 operational, 3 in planning or under contract.
Netherlands: 2 under contact, 2 applications
Germany: 4 licensed, 1 in planning, 1 application
Ireland: 1 operational, 1 planning application
UK Round 1: 4 operational, 7 under construction now or in 2007, 4 pending
UK Round 2: 6 under consent application ranging from 83 to 270 turbines.
And here sits America where we’re fussing about the appearance of our first offshore windfarm.
Is there something wrong about this picture?
Regards,
Chuck Kleekamp
Denmark has 6 offshore windfarms starting 15 years ago. The world’s two largest offshore windfarms, Horns Rev (80 turbines) and Nystead (72 turbines) are privately owned and operated by Danish utilities. Neither had any subsidy from the government for construction. Both are being doubled is size (by private Danish utilities) since they are so successful.
And other countries...
Sweden: 3 operational, 3 in planning or under contract.
Netherlands: 2 under contact, 2 applications
Germany: 4 licensed, 1 in planning, 1 application
Ireland: 1 operational, 1 planning application
UK Round 1: 4 operational, 7 under construction now or in 2007, 4 pending
UK Round 2: 6 under consent application ranging from 83 to 270 turbines.
And here sits America where we’re fussing about the appearance of our first offshore windfarm.
Is there something wrong about this picture?
Regards,
Chuck Kleekamp
neil good [Member] writes:
Chuck,
The picture?
People around the world are now ‘fussing’ about the appearance of wind power plants.
Why they even fuss about it in Denmark, however inconvenient that may be to wind enthusiasts.
Please keep in mind the largest selling newspaper in Denmark ran an editorial on Sept. 22, 2004 titled “Out with the Turbines.”
The term ‘horrors’ is used to describe land based wind “parks.”
More from “Out with the Turbines”-
“…the state that wind mills influence nature must be thoroughly examined before the placement of new ocean wind farms.“
“...future ocean wind parks should be planned for areas with as little influence on animal life as possible… and with as little visual disturbance as possible.”
“…a full stop should be in place for gigantic windfarms in coastal areas… the government should place new offshore turbines as far to sea as possible so they do not spoil nature or the view.”
“It is true Denmark has placed itself as a frontrunner in wind energy, but it has been done at the cost of large natural values and with huge public subsidies."
The picture?
People around the world are now ‘fussing’ about the appearance of wind power plants.
Why they even fuss about it in Denmark, however inconvenient that may be to wind enthusiasts.
Please keep in mind the largest selling newspaper in Denmark ran an editorial on Sept. 22, 2004 titled “Out with the Turbines.”
The term ‘horrors’ is used to describe land based wind “parks.”
More from “Out with the Turbines”-
“…the state that wind mills influence nature must be thoroughly examined before the placement of new ocean wind farms.“
“...future ocean wind parks should be planned for areas with as little influence on animal life as possible… and with as little visual disturbance as possible.”
“…a full stop should be in place for gigantic windfarms in coastal areas… the government should place new offshore turbines as far to sea as possible so they do not spoil nature or the view.”
“It is true Denmark has placed itself as a frontrunner in wind energy, but it has been done at the cost of large natural values and with huge public subsidies."
john hunter [Member] writes:
Chuck
Offshore wind farms are proving highly controversial in the EU with protests from environmentalists and local representatives forcing many governments to put off building large offshore farms until the technology advances to the stage where these massive industrial complexes can be built far out to sea away from sensitive coastlines. Europa Nostra the prestigious pan european heritage organisation has condemned the building of wind farms on and off shore in beautiful locations. Germany has not installed a single offshore wind farm due to environmental concerns Only UK and Denmark are building (slowly)in any sizeable way offshore. In Denmark the government has yielded to wind industry lobbying and is paying to expand the two demonstration wind farms (Horns Rev 2 and Nysted 2) in order to shore up the domestic wind turbine industry, the country's major employer with 20,000 jobs. The Danes have a huge interest in promoting wind energy worldwide as their domestic market is shrinking and they need to export turbines.
They can not be considered representative of the EU ! Regards
Offshore wind farms are proving highly controversial in the EU with protests from environmentalists and local representatives forcing many governments to put off building large offshore farms until the technology advances to the stage where these massive industrial complexes can be built far out to sea away from sensitive coastlines. Europa Nostra the prestigious pan european heritage organisation has condemned the building of wind farms on and off shore in beautiful locations. Germany has not installed a single offshore wind farm due to environmental concerns Only UK and Denmark are building (slowly)in any sizeable way offshore. In Denmark the government has yielded to wind industry lobbying and is paying to expand the two demonstration wind farms (Horns Rev 2 and Nysted 2) in order to shore up the domestic wind turbine industry, the country's major employer with 20,000 jobs. The Danes have a huge interest in promoting wind energy worldwide as their domestic market is shrinking and they need to export turbines.
They can not be considered representative of the EU ! Regards
Monponsett [Member] writes:
"John Hunter" sounds like a guy who really needs to find a bathroom.
CapeCodGuy2 [Member] writes:
Capri-once again your responding with personal attacks on another persons intelligence. This is a perfect example of what happens when you cant argue the facts, you attack the opponent.
What qualifications do you have with respect to energy projects?? have you done any research into the subject besides reading the alliance website?? I would have no objection if you said you dont want turbines because you think they are ugly. I respect personal opinions, however I give no repspect to personal attacks against someone when they post information that refutes your position.
What qualifications do you have with respect to energy projects?? have you done any research into the subject besides reading the alliance website?? I would have no objection if you said you dont want turbines because you think they are ugly. I respect personal opinions, however I give no repspect to personal attacks against someone when they post information that refutes your position.
Stopcapewind [Member] writes:
CapeCodGuy (registered user) writes:
What about oil companies drilling in Alaska wildlife refuges?? or the gulf of mexico? or mining companies stripping mountains, or farmers grazing cattle on public lands. It happens all the time.... CW will pay a lease to use the watersheet just like fishermen pay for a liscense. Just because you dont like the project isnt enough of a reason to stop it. The reason Danes are cool with wind energy is because they care enough about the environment to sign the Kyoto protocols and even invest in their own machines.
Good try CapeCodGuy,Other areas of offshore development are REQUIRED to bid on the area, that is not happening here, don't say it happens all the time.
It obvious the Danes have a vested interest in spreading wind energy, like most of the other capewind puppets.
What about oil companies drilling in Alaska wildlife refuges?? or the gulf of mexico? or mining companies stripping mountains, or farmers grazing cattle on public lands. It happens all the time.... CW will pay a lease to use the watersheet just like fishermen pay for a liscense. Just because you dont like the project isnt enough of a reason to stop it. The reason Danes are cool with wind energy is because they care enough about the environment to sign the Kyoto protocols and even invest in their own machines.
Good try CapeCodGuy,Other areas of offshore development are REQUIRED to bid on the area, that is not happening here, don't say it happens all the time.
It obvious the Danes have a vested interest in spreading wind energy, like most of the other capewind puppets.
John Coequyt [Member] writes:
Bobcat87:
I don’t have time to correct all the inaccurate statements you have made on this blog, but I assure you that Greenpeace paid for Mr. Larsens travel to the Cape. We do not take corporate donations and have not received any funding from Cape Wind or Mr. Gordon’s foundation.
We brought Mr. Larsen to the Cape and Long Island to testify to what has been our position all along; that offshore wind is an important solution to global warming and that it has been successful in Europe.
I can also say that I recently visited Bergen in Holland where they are building a wind farm almost exactly the same distance from shore as the Cape Wind facility. I can say that those turbines had no impact on my beach experience. I could show you my pictures, but the turbines didn’t show up on my digital pictures, so you will have to take my word for it.
John Coequyt
Greenpeace
I don’t have time to correct all the inaccurate statements you have made on this blog, but I assure you that Greenpeace paid for Mr. Larsens travel to the Cape. We do not take corporate donations and have not received any funding from Cape Wind or Mr. Gordon’s foundation.
We brought Mr. Larsen to the Cape and Long Island to testify to what has been our position all along; that offshore wind is an important solution to global warming and that it has been successful in Europe.
I can also say that I recently visited Bergen in Holland where they are building a wind farm almost exactly the same distance from shore as the Cape Wind facility. I can say that those turbines had no impact on my beach experience. I could show you my pictures, but the turbines didn’t show up on my digital pictures, so you will have to take my word for it.
John Coequyt
Greenpeace
Stopcapewind [Member] writes:
John Coequyt, please tell us the inaccuracies. love to hear them. They won't add up to 1% of the inaccuracies that this article displays. Great if Greenpeace paid for Mr. Larsen’s travel, he came paid by someone supporting cape wind, and the fact that he said that Denmark had no bird kills, that is a lie, and shows he has no credibility to be honest and/or independent on the subject. He was merely a capewind marketer period.
CapeCodGuy2 [Member] writes:
Capri
The only data I got from CW was the distance from the shore. The information I have is from being an expert in the field, I have installed numerous meterological towers across New England, site work investigating proposed wind farms, interconnection issues and I even helped design and build an experimental vertical axis wind turbine. I think this gives me a bit more standing when it comes to renewable energy. Just because I eat chicken, watch birds fly and talk to poultry farmers doesnt make me an expert in your field. Dont act like your an expert in mine...
The only data I got from CW was the distance from the shore. The information I have is from being an expert in the field, I have installed numerous meterological towers across New England, site work investigating proposed wind farms, interconnection issues and I even helped design and build an experimental vertical axis wind turbine. I think this gives me a bit more standing when it comes to renewable energy. Just because I eat chicken, watch birds fly and talk to poultry farmers doesnt make me an expert in your field. Dont act like your an expert in mine...
Monponsett [Member] writes:
The French know how to handle Greenpeace, but I have bigger fish to fry.
CapeCodGuy2 [Member] writes:
cod?? redfish?? dolphin?? Ill bring the beer
CapeCodGuy2 [Member] writes:
as a bird expert capri please tell me how many birds are killed each year in the United States by automobiles, household cats, fossil fuel burning powerplants, buildings, and powerlines. since there is about maybe 12,000 individual wind turbines in the US and the average mortality is 1 bird per year per turbine that makes it 12,000/yr. last time I checked some 300,000,000 birds are killed by household cats every year. Maybe your correct that nantucket Sound isnt the place but you need to admitt that compared to other impacts wind turbines are at the bottom.
barbaradurkin [Member] writes:
Right now, the biggest threat to bird life in Nantucket Sound is Mass Audubon. They have influenced Greenpeace and the Sierra Club to jump on the Cape Wind band wagon. Why? Mass Audubon has a vested interest in the outcome of this project, AS A SELF-APPOINTED REVIEWING AGENCY.
What people are not being told is that the condition of Mass Audubon's preliminary approval of Cape Wind is a contract. Mass Audubon uses language "Adaptive Management Plan" "long term environmental monitoring" and every word but "contract" and that is what it is, a contract.
Note I received regarding Mass Audubon:
"Thanks for unearthing the money trail that exists between Mass Audubon and its support of Cape Wind. In my own experience, I've seen ornithological experts lined up at the trough testifying about how they can profit from engaging in "pre and post construction windplant studies" to assess risk. These are merely pundits, not scientists concerned about the rigors of analysis or the precautionary principle. It's so appalling. As you point out, Mass Audubon is hardly an independent, disinterested party, which is essential for science."
Jon Boone, Environmentalist
What people are not being told is that the condition of Mass Audubon's preliminary approval of Cape Wind is a contract. Mass Audubon uses language "Adaptive Management Plan" "long term environmental monitoring" and every word but "contract" and that is what it is, a contract.
Note I received regarding Mass Audubon:
"Thanks for unearthing the money trail that exists between Mass Audubon and its support of Cape Wind. In my own experience, I've seen ornithological experts lined up at the trough testifying about how they can profit from engaging in "pre and post construction windplant studies" to assess risk. These are merely pundits, not scientists concerned about the rigors of analysis or the precautionary principle. It's so appalling. As you point out, Mass Audubon is hardly an independent, disinterested party, which is essential for science."
Jon Boone, Environmentalist
barbaradurkin [Member] writes:
Here is another response regarding Mass Audubon's selling out the birds.
"Either these organizations are for birds or for wind. It's as simple as that.
To claim to represent or protect birds and then earn money on their death is perverse.
The ornithological world has become so infected by the scent of wind money that members of the public should now be insisting on declarations of financial interests from all those involved in the decision making process. It's as bad as that.
It is now down to dedicated members of the public who care about birds to flush out the truth. Name and shame. It's sad but the birds now need guardians whose sole interest is their overriding welfare."
"Either these organizations are for birds or for wind. It's as simple as that.
To claim to represent or protect birds and then earn money on their death is perverse.
The ornithological world has become so infected by the scent of wind money that members of the public should now be insisting on declarations of financial interests from all those involved in the decision making process. It's as bad as that.
It is now down to dedicated members of the public who care about birds to flush out the truth. Name and shame. It's sad but the birds now need guardians whose sole interest is their overriding welfare."
barbaradurkin [Member] writes:
Capri, thank YOU, we will get the word out. Follow the money, just like Mass Audubon is doing. But, the best news is they are not the regulatory agency, USFWS is as you know. They don't have the pot of gold in their view as Mass Audubon does. Do you believe that Jack Clarke sat there and said that he didn't know anything about a contract???
We will keep the spotlight on Mass Audubon, and the word is getting out as you are also helping to spread it, and I see that others "get it," too.
The truth will out. I was in communication with Taber Allison weekly until I caught on to what Mass Audubon was doing in February. I stopped communication, until I challenged them to walk away from the monitoring contract. They think people are too stupid to figure out what their preliminary approval "condition" means, "contract."
The organization, Californian's for Renewable Energy, Michael Boyd, gave me these figures for a monitoring contract:
The start up cost for the first year for the mitigation and monitoring program for the Altamont Pass is $3,000,000, with cost at ~$1,000,000
We will keep the spotlight on Mass Audubon, and the word is getting out as you are also helping to spread it, and I see that others "get it," too.
The truth will out. I was in communication with Taber Allison weekly until I caught on to what Mass Audubon was doing in February. I stopped communication, until I challenged them to walk away from the monitoring contract. They think people are too stupid to figure out what their preliminary approval "condition" means, "contract."
The organization, Californian's for Renewable Energy, Michael Boyd, gave me these figures for a monitoring contract:
The start up cost for the first year for the mitigation and monitoring program for the Altamont Pass is $3,000,000, with cost at ~$1,000,000
barbaradurkin [Member] writes:
Capri:
You are right, Mass Audubon donors would be shocked to learn about these lucrative, long term environmental monitoring CONTRACTS, and conflict of interest. Did you catch Jack Clarke's cute trick on the word play at CCCC? He inserted "3 years" implying three years of study, but he was talking about reviewing another country's three year study. Nice try again, Jack, USFWS has two months of study on Cape Wind, and USFWS wants three years of study from July 11, 2006, according to USFWS scoping comments to MMS. USFWS has maintained this position from day one of Cape Wind.
It was outrageously bold, and an insult to our intelligence that Jack Clarke actually said that he didn't know what we meant by the word, "contract."
Follow the money, just like Mass Audubon.
It's great to be on your team, Capri. I know that you are as disturbed as I am about this perverse duplicity.
You are right, Mass Audubon donors would be shocked to learn about these lucrative, long term environmental monitoring CONTRACTS, and conflict of interest. Did you catch Jack Clarke's cute trick on the word play at CCCC? He inserted "3 years" implying three years of study, but he was talking about reviewing another country's three year study. Nice try again, Jack, USFWS has two months of study on Cape Wind, and USFWS wants three years of study from July 11, 2006, according to USFWS scoping comments to MMS. USFWS has maintained this position from day one of Cape Wind.
It was outrageously bold, and an insult to our intelligence that Jack Clarke actually said that he didn't know what we meant by the word, "contract."
Follow the money, just like Mass Audubon.
It's great to be on your team, Capri. I know that you are as disturbed as I am about this perverse duplicity.
barbaradurkin [Member] writes:
Correction to my last comment:
"Mass Audubon donors WILL be shocked to learn about these lucrative, long term environmental monitoring CONTRACTS, and conflict of interest."
You're right, Capri, most people would trust that a bird advocacy group would advocate for birds, and the organizations that you mention do attract nature lovers.
How betrayed do you think people will feel when they care about wildlife when they learn that the advocacy group they support by donations stands to profit most by the death of animals.
The Adaptive Management Plan, long term environmental monitoring is apparently too seductive for bird advocacy to remain a focus of these so called advocates of birds.
Mass Audubon denies their own testimony, "Mass Audubon staff scientists arrived at avian mortalities that ranged from 2,300 to 6,600 collision deaths per year," for a reason.
Mass Audubon: "First, for some avian species, such as the Roseate Tern or Piping Plover, a single death as a result of the project could be regarded as an unacceptable level of impact under the ESA."
"Mass Audubon donors WILL be shocked to learn about these lucrative, long term environmental monitoring CONTRACTS, and conflict of interest."
You're right, Capri, most people would trust that a bird advocacy group would advocate for birds, and the organizations that you mention do attract nature lovers.
How betrayed do you think people will feel when they care about wildlife when they learn that the advocacy group they support by donations stands to profit most by the death of animals.
The Adaptive Management Plan, long term environmental monitoring is apparently too seductive for bird advocacy to remain a focus of these so called advocates of birds.
Mass Audubon denies their own testimony, "Mass Audubon staff scientists arrived at avian mortalities that ranged from 2,300 to 6,600 collision deaths per year," for a reason.
Mass Audubon: "First, for some avian species, such as the Roseate Tern or Piping Plover, a single death as a result of the project could be regarded as an unacceptable level of impact under the ESA."
CCToday [Member] writes:
111 comments is enough for any story.
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Will we save any money?
Considering what US government regulations on electricity are today, and that they are not likely to change, the answer is no. Actually if Cape Light was to get involved I am willing to bet our electric rates would increase.
Do we want a private company earning a profit in Nantucket Sound?
My answer is no.