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Yarmouth Leads Cape On Tax Rate-So Far
10/22/06 · 11:18 am :: posted by Cape Cod Republican
This past week the Town of Yarmouth sent out the Tax Bills for the first half year of fiscal 07 . Taxpayers have seen their tax bills increase once again, some significantly, and as of now we have the THE HIGHEST TAX RATE ON THE CAPE. We're Number 1. A look at the Cape Towns who have their Tax Rates approved for 07 This could change as some towns have yet to have their Tax Rate set for 07.
Town Tax Break Down:
1. YARMOUTH Residential Tax Rate 5.89 Approved on 10/5/2006
2. HARWICH Residential Tax Rate 5.58 Approved 09/29/2006
3. BREWSTER Residential Tax Rate 5.47 10/13/2006
4. FALMOUTH Residential Tax Rate 5.25 Approved 09/29/2006
5. EASTHAM Residential Tax Rate 4.61 Approved 09/8/2006
6. WELLFLEET Residential Tax Rate 4.5 4 Approved 10/12/2006
7. ORLEANS Residential Tax Rate 4.27 Approved 10/13/2006
8. DENNIS Residential Tax Rate 4.2 4 Approved 09/12/2006
9. CHATHAM Residential Tax Rate 3.49 Approved 10/10/2006
All the above Towns tax Commercial, Industrial and Personal Property at the same tax as the Residential Tax
New Disable Veteran (Chap. 59 ) Tax Exemption.
The increase in the Disable Veteran Tax Exemption was signed by the Governor in August and the House and Senate approved the funding in September. The bill was signed by the Governor two weeks ago with the affected date of 1 July. This is the start f or Fiscal Year 07.
Yarmouth Tax Bills:
Yarmouth Disable Veterans or Widows of Disable Veterans who got their tax bill should be getting a Exemption Certificate. The new exemptions are not in the original tax bills. The new Exemption Certificate will have the new tax exemption that took effect July 1st. Veterans who receive this Certificate should take this to the Town Collector's Office at Town Hall to have your tax bill corrected.
How Will The Taxpayers Respond?
How will the Taxpayers respond too this increase? Will the taxpayer remember this increase and attend Town Meeting ?Will the Taxpayer let the Selectmen know that are upset with the Town's increase in spending? How will the Taxpayer respond?
74 comments
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10/22/06 @ 11:58 am
Opinionator [Member] writes:
This means nothing or less when presented in isolation like this. The real number is tax rate times assessment which yields the tax bill. The state will be printing these shortly, called "average residential tax bill" and I wouldn't be surprised if Yarmouth is in the bottom two or three on the Cape. So please be careful with statistics.
[ Show all comments by this user ]
Fred [Member] writes:
Where can we get a copy of the "average residential tax bill" when it comes out? The town recently did a reevaluation of property values so it could very well mean an increase.
Mcfly [Member] writes:
My home valuation went up 15% yet home sales and prices are dropping.
Click here to your homes value according to the town. http://data.visionappraisal.com/yarmouthma/(S(zinmzm55bwxxjw55xxzshqm1))/search.aspx
To add insult to injury Yarmouth schools are some of the worst in the state in regards to MCAS scores.
Click here to your homes value according to the town. http://data.visionappraisal.com/yarmouthma/(S(zinmzm55bwxxjw55xxzshqm1))/search.aspx
To add insult to injury Yarmouth schools are some of the worst in the state in regards to MCAS scores.
Cape Cod Republican [Member] writes:
Opinionator: The Tax assessments for the Town were about 5 billion. The Tax Rate went down from 5.93, it could and should have been more, but the unneeded override went through. The average of a 7% increase in property values resulted in a tax increase for the Taxpayers in Town. The figures I posted are from the Department of Revenue.
Cape Cod Republican [Member] writes:
Mcfly: The home prices are starting to fall but we, the taxpayers, won’t see this for a couple of years unless the Town decides to do a revaluation every year. The Town did an interim one last year that resulted in an average of 10% increase in property values. The 7% average we have seen could have been another 10%. What I’m concerned about, and I have discussed this with the Town, is when property values do fall, the Town Assessment will fall also, but will the tax rate fall? I don’t think so, from what I have been told, unless the taxpayers insist the town start making cuts or we get more State Aid.
i'm not anonymous [Member] writes:
my 2 cents =
Even the Cape's highest rate is less than 1/2 what my frieds pay inside 495 area around Boston. The Cape rates are very low.
http://www.dls.state.ma.us/TaxRates/taxrate.htm
Even the Cape's highest rate is less than 1/2 what my frieds pay inside 495 area around Boston. The Cape rates are very low.
http://www.dls.state.ma.us/TaxRates/taxrate.htm
Opinionator [Member] writes:
Fred:
The Massachusetts Department of Revenue publishes a monthly newsletter called “City and Town.” Every September they have published a list of “average residential tax bills.” In September of 2005 it was published at http://www.dls.state.ma.us/publ/ct/2005/september.pdf and I assume they will do it again this year, but it is not yet on-line.
The Massachusetts Department of Revenue publishes a monthly newsletter called “City and Town.” Every September they have published a list of “average residential tax bills.” In September of 2005 it was published at http://www.dls.state.ma.us/publ/ct/2005/september.pdf and I assume they will do it again this year, but it is not yet on-line.
Mcfly [Member] writes:
Are your freinds retired living on a fixed income?
Just because someone else's taxes are higher somewhere else doesn't mean we should excuse or allow taxes to get higher here.
Just because someone else's taxes are higher somewhere else doesn't mean we should excuse or allow taxes to get higher here.
Fred [Member] writes:
I viewed the average tax bills at the above site and I notice we are about $400 more than Dennis for average bills 2005. We have a larger commercial base and getter revenue from rooms tax(just the sheer number of operating motels in Yarmouth compared to every other town)Not including the defacto SRO's that exist in W. Yar but don't get me started on that drain of municipal services. We should be lower than most towns on the Cape not higher. Point of interest, we have the same average tax bill as New Bedford and they have 100% education reimbursement from the state while our reimbursement rate is in the 20’s%
Bottom Line [Member] writes:
Yarmouth Taxpayer,
Your blog mission states your goal is to inform the Yarmouth residents on Tax and Government issues.
Yarmouth residents may have the highest tax rate on the Cape, however, for the last couple of years the only Cape town that has had a lower average tax bill is Dennis. Yarmouth was the 289th lowest out of 338 communities for FY 2005. Yarmouth was in the lowest 15% for average real estate tax bills in Massachusetts.
It is more beneficial to Yarmouth residents if all of the facts are included when you post your issues.
Your blog mission states your goal is to inform the Yarmouth residents on Tax and Government issues.
Yarmouth residents may have the highest tax rate on the Cape, however, for the last couple of years the only Cape town that has had a lower average tax bill is Dennis. Yarmouth was the 289th lowest out of 338 communities for FY 2005. Yarmouth was in the lowest 15% for average real estate tax bills in Massachusetts.
It is more beneficial to Yarmouth residents if all of the facts are included when you post your issues.
Mcfly [Member] writes:
I think the bottom line is that none of the above is true any longer.
Opinionator [Member] writes:
Maybe, but we don't know that yet. Low taxes are a good thing, but to live in the bargain basement when everyone else makes a greater effort may not be anything to boast about.
Mcfly [Member] writes:
Yarmouth has never been or ever was bargain basement, at least in services. Now it appears we may be paying Macy's prices for a Walmart product.
albert [Member] writes:
The Yarmouth Taxpayer is trying to get you all stired up over nothing here. He should know what he is talking about but apparently not. FYI The highest tax rate does not mean you have the highest tax bills. The rate is based on how much the total real estate value is for the town which is then divided into the total amount of tax dollars needed to fund the budget. This creates the "rate" which is then multiplied by your assessd value to determine you tax bill. So if property values in Yarmouth were much higher the tax rate would be lower. The rate should be of no issue to you the tax payers. The issue is how much you pay and as I see it by Mass standards Yarmouth gets a very good bang for its buck! Taxpayers in most of the state only wish they had tax bills as low as Yarmouth Residents.
Cape Cod Republican [Member] writes:
Albert: You say, stired up over nothing? The Facts come from the Department of Revenue. I do not expect this to stay this way but I regarded the present tax rate as a warning to what is down the road here in Yarmouth. The Town has done two assessments that have resulted in an average of a 17% increase in property values resulting in our taxes increasing. Now we are facing the opposite. Home values are starting to fall; the result will be the town assessment will also fall. Do you think out taxes will reflect this? Not according to one town official. Taxes will have to go up. I see the present rate being the lowest for years to come. There are pressures facing the town and taxpayers, examples: The Blue stone Development Project for Rt 28 will have a huge impact on our tax rate. What will the impact be on our tax rate for Waste Water Treatment? Spiraling overtime cost in the Towns budget?
yarmresident [Member] writes:
It is too bad with the highest tax rate we cannot afford fire protection in West Yarmouth. I hate to see what that does to the business insurance costs.
Cape Cod Republican [Member] writes:
Yarmresident: I saw last nights Selectmen’s meeting and I’m very disappointed. This is the second consecutive year the Fire Department has had a budget short fall. We in West Yarmouth are the victims. I have written Town Hall with several questions. Hopefully I will get the answers and I’ll be writing a new Blog on what is going on. Stay tuned it might get a little bumpy on the road ahead. It's time the Taxpayers know what is going on and time to speak out.
yarmresident [Member] writes:
I also live in West, i cannot believe i voted for a override in 03' and for a new Fire Station in 06' a total of almost $5 million in Tax increases to be now living with NO FIRE PROTECTION.
Y-PortResident [Member] writes:
Maybe it's time for Bob Lawton to move on. We now have some of the highest taxes on the Cape. We have a brand new fire station under construction without the funding to man it!
Is there any doubt that the fire department will be looking for another override to fund the West Yarmouth Station?
This may or may not be Bob's fault I don't know but what I do know is that in the last couple of years we have seen our taxes skyrocket and he is the town manager. It appears Bob really has no idea what is going on within the different departments in the town.
Is there any doubt that the fire department will be looking for another override to fund the West Yarmouth Station?
This may or may not be Bob's fault I don't know but what I do know is that in the last couple of years we have seen our taxes skyrocket and he is the town manager. It appears Bob really has no idea what is going on within the different departments in the town.
yarmresident [Member] writes:
So now it is the ambulance service once again, that may be taken away from the West Yarmouth residents. I hope they solve this soon.
albert [Member] writes:
The YFD has an over $800,000 overtime budget and they can stay within in it? even when they have 2 stations 100% maned they call back to fill the other station with ovetime EMt/firemen The union wont give the town the changes they need to get hold of the budget so the budget gets busted and then they cry that the town is being mean to them. Maybe the firemen should take a lead from the YPD and work with the town for a win win deal. Instead of forcing the town to remove equipment to stay within budget. The firemen could quickly solve this problem but they only care about the OT and not what it is doing to the towns Budget. HMMMMM
yarmresident [Member] writes:
I hope that is not all true, the register article quoted Lawton saying this issue was not about negotiations,but an increase in runs and reduced reimbursment from medicare.
We voted for the $200,000 increase to overtime and new it be that high to support the level of service we wanted as taxpayers. Whatever the reason is, i hope they work to solve it soon.
We voted for the $200,000 increase to overtime and new it be that high to support the level of service we wanted as taxpayers. Whatever the reason is, i hope they work to solve it soon.
Concerned2 [Member] writes:
Albert, Like yarmresdient said WE as voters, voted for a separate Prop 2 1/2 override to fun the OT to man the West Yarmouth Station when they needed to back fill. Did you VOTE for the override? Why does West Yarmouth deserve less service than the citizens of South Yarmouth and Yarmoutport?
albert [Member] writes:
Concerned.. actually the vote was to raise and appropriate an additonal $960,000 to be added to fy04 YFD wages line 5-66 for new firefighters, emt/paramedics. NOthing about OT mentioned. Remember the deal was to man the station not increase OT. The problem is the wording in the union contract is for one station 100% back filled. They now have 3 stations and back fill all 3 every chance they get to boost their OT. HAve you seen what these guys make in ot? Some are making 35-45k per year and they want more even thou most of their neighbors and taxpayers who they want to pay are lucky to make $45,000 per yr with no OT. they dont need to all be 100% manned all the time. What would you think if your boss told you he wanted you to give up more money so people that are already making twice what your whole family makes can get more $$. Thats what the YFD is asking! It seems clear to me the Firemen are being very very greedy here. How much more can we afford? they have to addrerss this issue or we will be back here again and again. Like I said before the YFD should take leasons from the YPD.
Concerned2 [Member] writes:
I recall voting to hire additional 12 firefighters to man their Sta.3. There was also a separate ovveride of $200,000 to cover the expense of OT. What do you mean 100% backfilled? ALso have YOU seen what some of YPD makes in OT?? Look at the town report. I don't see really any greed here. Back in 1988 town's people voted to open Sta.2 in Yarmouthport so that part of the town was equally protected. Then later on they got the ambulance there. Maybe what they need is more manpower with increase in runs. When (we) call 911 fora medical emergency or fire I would assume like myself you want them there mighty quick. I can't put a dollar figure on someones life or property when the S... hits the fan.
albert [Member] writes:
I agree with your last line. I wasn't able to find the $200k vote in the town report. 100% back fill means when the truck rolls out the door regardless of the amount of time it is out they call back men/women to "back fill" the station regardless of the manning at the other 2 stations. I just looked at fy05 town report the most any cop made in ot was $34k+/- and there was only one. there are 8 firemen make that and more. not to mention the other 19 that make over 20K in OT. They all made close to 100K per yr. They are still working off a contract that is based on one station not the 3 we now have. WE cant afford this. Marascoo said this a few yrs ago and suggested 6 new hires he was shot down. I think there is a soulution that allows OT and protects the budget but the YFD is to greedy and wont give the town or the chief any flexability. You gotta love them unions! Screw the people(read taxpayers) we want more.
yarmresident [Member] writes:
Albert--I am sure WE all would love to hear this solution you have. Especially the Town and the Firefighters. If the contract is that outdated then why would the Town agree to it years past. This issue is about increased calls and lower reinbursements. so...what is your solution?
Concerned2 [Member] writes:
After talking with some officials I am told that the contract that expired June 30th of this year has language of the current 3 Fire Stations on Town. I also see that the ambulance from the West Yarmouth has been pulled as well.
I have been made aware that they back fill the 3 Fire Stations to maintain 9 Firefighters available to respond to other calls that come in. They do this to maintain the response to an Emergency under 6 minutes. Iwould like to know what your plan would be. To me its sounds like maybe we need to hire more to cut down on the OT. I don't like paing anymore in taxes then the next person, but when it comes to life (public) safety I will gladly pay more.Today's world is not the world we lived in year's ago. As the town grows so does the growing pains that come with it.
I have been made aware that they back fill the 3 Fire Stations to maintain 9 Firefighters available to respond to other calls that come in. They do this to maintain the response to an Emergency under 6 minutes. Iwould like to know what your plan would be. To me its sounds like maybe we need to hire more to cut down on the OT. I don't like paing anymore in taxes then the next person, but when it comes to life (public) safety I will gladly pay more.Today's world is not the world we lived in year's ago. As the town grows so does the growing pains that come with it.
maverick [Member] writes:
Concerned...." To me its sounds like maybe we need to hire more ".
I agree. That is the Massachusetts way.
I agree. That is the Massachusetts way.
albert [Member] writes:
First what officals did you speak with? members of the FD Union? Ya thats reliable. Lets be honest here the OT system of both the PD and FD is a sham. They work the system to bloat their OT checks and we all know it. Why do we need 3 stations fully staffed 24/7 in the first place when there are by your count 27+/- on duty at any given time. This is not Boston. Knowing how gov. employees work Hiring more will only add to the problem. how about private ambulance service and just keep firemen? Lots and Lots of towns/cities do it this way and it works very well. I dont know the answer But I do know they cant continue the way they are going.Oh and one other thing I dont bye into the scare tactics of oh my some one is going to die. Please! We have greater protection today than we ever had and I am sure they can continue to provide the quality service with a better system than gaffing me the taxpayer for their personnel OT gains. again I say GREED!
yarmresident [Member] writes:
Simply put...albert does not have the answer..too bad. I am not ready to call any one greedy, i appreciate all that the PD and FD do. Simple math tells me that maintaining 9 is just that. 9 not 27. That is 3 per station. looking at the Town report you refered to, i noticed the Ambulance service we have provided the department with over 1.2 million dollars. going to a private company will cost us more as taxpayers in my opinion.
Concerned2 [Member] writes:
I spoke with town officials. You are right this not Boston, seing that they have over 1,600 Firefighters TOTAL.But listening at town meetings and selectmen meetings they need to have adequate staffing for Fire Engine (3 if I remember to for provide services? and the ambulance has 2-3 to respond. I don't recall any scare tactics. I think you maybe recalling the American Heart Assoc. statements that after 6 minutes of no Oxygen to the brain your survial rate decreases and also something about the size of fire will increase in time (5-6 minuts) where there is no escape for a potential survivor. Well I guess we will agree to disagree.
Concerned2 [Member] writes:
Oh speaking of Private Service, Didn't the Fire Chief recently report that Medicare receipts are down from previous years?I mean ask your local Doctors on their Meidcare receipts. What Private Ambulance Co. would want to start up a questionable profit service in Yarmouth? Think about it. Where are they gonna be housed, what type of $ is Yarmouth gonna want from this Company? Will this Company only do rescue work and not private transports?
wahhmbulance [Member] writes:
You can't compare PD and FD overtime. When the police receive calls, they prioritize and stack them, so the lesser priority calls will not get answered until the higher priority calls are mitigated. In other words, they'll get to you when they get to you. The fire department, however, answers calls and responds to them as soon as they're received. THEREFORE, when personnel respond to one call, there needs to be more personnel to answer the next one in a timely fashion. The only way to fix that is to hire additional personnel that are already staffing the station, therefore eliminating the need for callback. SO, either cough up the $$$ for more personnel to staff the stations/apparatus, or deal with the $$ spent for callback/overtime.
wahhmbulance [Member] writes:
And it's not a union issue. THe union doesn't set the rules of the fire department, the administration does. So if the chief or the town decides not to have callback, then usually they won't. However, CONCERNED, when the s*** hits the fan and your house is burning, or you're having some sort of medical emergency, you'll be the one suing the town/department as to why the fire department didn't respond fast enough.
wahhmbulance [Member] writes:
Oh, and private companies cost $$$. Not to mention, I doubt AMR or any other private service will come down here. I don't think they'd profit well from it.
yarmresident [Member] writes:
this is starting to sound like a Town meeting...every one being an expert on stuff they know little about. It is fair to say that if the Town thought they would save money with other ambulance people, then they probably would have already done it. Albert will only look at one side because the firemen are "unreliable" in his eyes. To bad he only sees them in a bad light. They do the work that is asked of them, as do the police. I cant see how that makes them greedy.
Concerned2 [Member] writes:
After watching Dr. Marasco's performance tonight on TV he seems to be the so called "expert". He basically put down the YFD as being the profesionals and wants the ER DOcs to come in to this. I mean from what I understand all EMTS/Paramedics operate underguidelines set forth by the State and with the local hospital they deliver patients to.
wahhmbulance [Member] writes:
Yes, Concerned, EMTs and Medics have state and local protocols that they have to follow. We have certifications and work under the license of our regional medical director. What does that have to do with anything? I think I missed something.
albert [Member] writes:
Your right I dont have the answer. I am not sure you are correct about the private ambulance companies. I guess ou never know unlewss you check it out and not assume they wont come. wahhmbulance you are completly wrong when you say "THe union doesn't set the rules of the fire department, the administration does." Those "rules" are negotiated in a UNION contract. go ask the fire chief why he cant send a guy home when he is not needed or why he cant decide not to back fill a station. The UNION wont allow it. THEY run the show not the Chief! I too watched last night. It looks like the TA will put blue ribbion committe together to look at how we provide emergency services in tyown and make recommendations. I can promise you that no matter what they recommend the UNION will object if it effects their little nest egg of OT. Last of all let me go on record as saying I have total respect for the job these guys do and admire them for doing it. That has nothing to do with the greed they have for ot $$$.
albert [Member] writes:
ask yourselves this.. Why is it that the YFD is as I understand it the only UNION in town that has not agreed on a contract? I think I heard last night they need to go to a mediator WHY? Is the union or the town being unreasonable in their demands. my bet is its the union.
P.S. sorry for all the typos.
P.S. sorry for all the typos.
wahhmbulance [Member] writes:
No, Albert, I am not wrong. I should know, I'm a union firefighter. THe "rules" and operating procedures are formed by the administration and chief. The union contract only sets pay wages, schedule, etc. I don't think you'll find a union contract that states anything about the chief having to provide overtime. Because if there was no overtime, firefighters would just get second (or third, or fourth) jobs.
I also work for a private ambualnce company off cape. Trust me, they're all about making profit. Private companies try to gobble up contracts for nursing homes, hospitals, etc. They most likely would not come down here for 1 hospital and a handful of nursing homes. Not to mention, there's already Cape Cod Ambulance that provides service down here.
"why he cant send a guy home when he is not needed?" I tell you what, you tell me exactly when a firefighter/paramedic is needed, and I'll try not to laugh at that last statement. Again, you can't compare PD to FD. The police prioritize and stack their calls, therefore, they can much better manage their ot budget.
I also work for a private ambualnce company off cape. Trust me, they're all about making profit. Private companies try to gobble up contracts for nursing homes, hospitals, etc. They most likely would not come down here for 1 hospital and a handful of nursing homes. Not to mention, there's already Cape Cod Ambulance that provides service down here.
"why he cant send a guy home when he is not needed?" I tell you what, you tell me exactly when a firefighter/paramedic is needed, and I'll try not to laugh at that last statement. Again, you can't compare PD to FD. The police prioritize and stack their calls, therefore, they can much better manage their ot budget.
wahhmbulance [Member] writes:
The fire department responds to all their calls in a most timely fashion. And when there are no more personnel available or apparatus available, there's mutual aid, which means another town comes in to handle the emergency. And if it's EMS, that means funds go to someone else's town.
So, how many firefighters would you have on duty, how many would you staff an ambulance or engine with, and when do you want to send firefighters home when they're not needed??
So, how many firefighters would you have on duty, how many would you staff an ambulance or engine with, and when do you want to send firefighters home when they're not needed??
Concerned2 [Member] writes:
After thinking some of this through, maybe the town;s stance on this is that it's "cheaper to pay OT" than hite additional personnel. Think about it, what does it cost to hire 1 PD of FD vs paying another OT, think about it. I don't see greed here at all. Like wahhmulance said, these guys will seek other jobs if needed.
wahhmbulance [Member] writes:
Yes, concerned, that may be accurate.
Trust me, as a firefighter, I'd much rather see myself get paid a greater base salary and not have to have a second job. As it is now, I just started a job at a private ambulance company and make just about as much(within 4 cents) as I do after working for the fire department for 3 1/2 years. Also, where I work, the department secretary (ahem, administrative assistant) makes more per hour than some full time firefighter/emt's we have.
So when you talk about firefighters being greedy, I laugh. If I were greedy, I'd be doing something else.
Trust me, as a firefighter, I'd much rather see myself get paid a greater base salary and not have to have a second job. As it is now, I just started a job at a private ambulance company and make just about as much(within 4 cents) as I do after working for the fire department for 3 1/2 years. Also, where I work, the department secretary (ahem, administrative assistant) makes more per hour than some full time firefighter/emt's we have.
So when you talk about firefighters being greedy, I laugh. If I were greedy, I'd be doing something else.
wahhmbulance [Member] writes:
(When I said "You talk about firefighters," I wasn't speaking directly at you, concerned, it was a generalization. Sorry if it came out snotty!!) :-)
Dr Know [Member] writes:
Just my opinion but I believe that overtime is cheap. I dont know for sure but I dont believe that the firemen can come to work anytime they want to to make extra money. The number of emergencies determines how much overtime is expended. If your town hires more firemen they will have to pay them for a full week, every week. When you pay overtime you are only paying them when you need them. I know from business that when you pay a worker straight time you also have to pay the benefit package on top of that (health insurance, vacation, sick time etc.) which probably comes close to time and a half that you have to pay all the time. Add to that the long range commitment to the town (retirement contributions, etc) I think Mr Lawton is astute enough to understand that paying fewer men more overtime is saving the town money.
albert [Member] writes:
WAh go back and read your statement "The union contract only sets pay wages, schedule, etc." So now tell me who runs the show if you set schedules etc. Tell me that the chief can tell a guy to go home after he has been on duty 24hrs or has not completed a 4hr call back. My bet is he cant. I have heard of a case when a YFD man was told to go home and he told his chief he cant send him home his "union contract allowed him to stay" this happend during a big snow storm 2 yrs back. Is that true? NO one claims private services are about anything but 4 profit. hint Thats why they are in business!! Tell me Wah what is your soulution? MORE money for the FD? Would you be willing to look at a different approach to the call back issue to help the town afford you? Why has the union and the town not agreed on a new contract? Rumor is the Union wants huge a pay raise wont give the town concessions to get it. Is that true? Who is to blame? sound to me like greed if your not willing to work out a compromise that will benifit both the towns people and your wallet.
albert [Member] writes:
LOL you guys are sooo under paid you need 2nd & 3rd jobs. the OT is the 2nd job and they milk it for every dime they can get. Otherwise explain how one guy make 45k in ot. give me a break! take a look at any town report most are making well over 50k per yr. Most of your neighbors would love that income. Just look at any entrance exam offerd for PD or FD there are 100's of guys behind you that would love to have your deal. Many in my profession have taken big pay cut this year you want to give them some of that $$$ NO!! TaX them to DEAth. Screw my neighbors its all about me. SAD very Sad.
Dr Know [Member] writes:
Albert
What you say is true )"Just look at any entrance exam offerd for PD or FD there are 100's of guys behind you that would love to have your deal.") Do you know how many Firemen have left Yarmouth (after recieving a lot of training at considerable cost) to go to other, better paying jobs? Perhaps you should find out. then figure how much that costs the town.
What you say is true )"Just look at any entrance exam offerd for PD or FD there are 100's of guys behind you that would love to have your deal.") Do you know how many Firemen have left Yarmouth (after recieving a lot of training at considerable cost) to go to other, better paying jobs? Perhaps you should find out. then figure how much that costs the town.
wahhmbulance [Member] writes:
"Otherwise explain how one guy make 45k in ot"
Let's see, 45,000 in ot, divide by 52 weeks per year = 865 extra dollars per week, divide that by (oh let's say $30 per hour OT rate) = 28 extra hours per week of overtime. Pretty sad, if you ask me, that firefighters have to spend that much extra time coming into their job just to survive here.
"Would you be willing to look at a different approach to the call back issue to help the town afford you?" Like I said, the town pays its secrataries and admin. assistants more than some of the firefighters.
"Why has the union and the town not agreed on a new contract? Rumor is the Union wants huge a pay raise wont give the town concessions to get it. Is that true?" Probably not, because you have to NEGOTIATE a contract. If it was up to just the union, We'd be getting paid 25-30 bucks an hour, working our 48 hour per week schedule. If it was up to the towns or chiefs or people like YOU, we'd be getting paid minimum wage with no benefits, without the ability to afford to live in the very town we protect.
Let's see, 45,000 in ot, divide by 52 weeks per year = 865 extra dollars per week, divide that by (oh let's say $30 per hour OT rate) = 28 extra hours per week of overtime. Pretty sad, if you ask me, that firefighters have to spend that much extra time coming into their job just to survive here.
"Would you be willing to look at a different approach to the call back issue to help the town afford you?" Like I said, the town pays its secrataries and admin. assistants more than some of the firefighters.
"Why has the union and the town not agreed on a new contract? Rumor is the Union wants huge a pay raise wont give the town concessions to get it. Is that true?" Probably not, because you have to NEGOTIATE a contract. If it was up to just the union, We'd be getting paid 25-30 bucks an hour, working our 48 hour per week schedule. If it was up to the towns or chiefs or people like YOU, we'd be getting paid minimum wage with no benefits, without the ability to afford to live in the very town we protect.
wahhmbulance [Member] writes:
So the two sides negotiate, and both parties SIGN and AGREE to the contract. It's not just the unions getting what they want.
Trust me. The fire department is a BARGAIN. Firefighters and paramedics have so much responsibilities, so much training, and so much risk, that if we got paid according to our qualifications, we'd be loaded!! BUT, we don't ask for that. We ask for fair wages and benefits.
So tell me. How much would YOU pay to have someone save your life and property from fire?
Trust me. The fire department is a BARGAIN. Firefighters and paramedics have so much responsibilities, so much training, and so much risk, that if we got paid according to our qualifications, we'd be loaded!! BUT, we don't ask for that. We ask for fair wages and benefits.
So tell me. How much would YOU pay to have someone save your life and property from fire?
wahhmbulance [Member] writes:
Trust me, firefighters don't do it for the money. If we were working for the money, we'd probably do what YOU do albert.
Which is what, by the way?
Which is what, by the way?
wahhmbulance [Member] writes:
Dr. Know-
"Firemen have left Yarmouth (after recieving a lot of training at considerable cost) to go to other, better paying jobs"
Yes, but how many firefigthers has Yarmouth hired that had received either firefighter or paramedic (or any other kind of training)elsewhere? Don't forget to consider BOTH sides.
"Firemen have left Yarmouth (after recieving a lot of training at considerable cost) to go to other, better paying jobs"
Yes, but how many firefigthers has Yarmouth hired that had received either firefighter or paramedic (or any other kind of training)elsewhere? Don't forget to consider BOTH sides.
Dr Know [Member] writes:
Wah
That's a good (and fair) question I had not considered. We should try to find out.
That's a good (and fair) question I had not considered. We should try to find out.
wahhmbulance [Member] writes:
Yes it is, Dr. Know. I certainly wasn't trained by the department I'm on right now.
Also, training for firefighters and medics is an ongoing thing. We're constantly having to take continuing education (required by the state), and additional training classes (sometimes on our own dime) in order to remain proficient in our skills.
Also, training for firefighters and medics is an ongoing thing. We're constantly having to take continuing education (required by the state), and additional training classes (sometimes on our own dime) in order to remain proficient in our skills.
Concerned2 [Member] writes:
WOW! Things ae heating up here. You Albert you say as quoted "From what I hear" Where do "hear" this from? I beleive during the Blizzard of 2005 the State was under a State of Emergency. Also I would think you would all available emergency workers at work so that they do not have to respnd to the stations for all the calls that they responded to. I know form reading the papers and talking with some firefighters and staff they were very busy as to be expected during a storm of that nature.
You say 4hr. call back. Where do you get those "facts" from?
How do you so much about their negotiationns with the town? I highly doubt it Mt. Lawton is telling you this and a,so anybody from the board of selectmen.
You sound very jealous and disgruntled over what Fire and PD makes. SO you tell us what you think these paid professionals should be paid.
You say 4hr. call back. Where do you get those "facts" from?
How do you so much about their negotiationns with the town? I highly doubt it Mt. Lawton is telling you this and a,so anybody from the board of selectmen.
You sound very jealous and disgruntled over what Fire and PD makes. SO you tell us what you think these paid professionals should be paid.
wahhmbulance [Member] writes:
Good question, Concerned. I'd like to know how much we should get paid, too.
But albert is right about the 4 hour call back. Some towns (I'm not sure which ones, definitely not many and not mine!!) have a 4 hour call back minimum, but it's only between the hours of somewhere around midnight and 6AM. And I believe (don't quote me, I don't know exactly why) the reason for the 4 hours is to make it worthwhile getting out of bed and leaving your house in the middle of the night to go to work. I'd certainly rather stay in bed! Especially when it's cold and snowy.
YEs, you are right, too, about the blizzard of 2005. All firfefighters and EMT/Medics were to go into work (and we were all incredibly busy, too!). I Know I was at the station for 2 days at least. Trust me, forget overtime. The last place I want to be for 2 days during a blizzard is at work!!!
But albert is right about the 4 hour call back. Some towns (I'm not sure which ones, definitely not many and not mine!!) have a 4 hour call back minimum, but it's only between the hours of somewhere around midnight and 6AM. And I believe (don't quote me, I don't know exactly why) the reason for the 4 hours is to make it worthwhile getting out of bed and leaving your house in the middle of the night to go to work. I'd certainly rather stay in bed! Especially when it's cold and snowy.
YEs, you are right, too, about the blizzard of 2005. All firfefighters and EMT/Medics were to go into work (and we were all incredibly busy, too!). I Know I was at the station for 2 days at least. Trust me, forget overtime. The last place I want to be for 2 days during a blizzard is at work!!!
yarmouthguy [Member] writes:
I just looked in the tpown report it appears most "admin Assistance are making around 35K most fireman are making over 60K before OT. Are you kidding me? "We're constantly having to take continuing education (required by the state), and additional training classes (sometimes on our own dime) in order to remain proficient in our skills. Welcome to the real world! In my job I am required to take cont ed every yr at a cost of over $750 per. no one but me pays that. and I cover my own medical, dental, life and have NO retirment. CRY me a river. I dont know the facts of this issue like some here but it seems both have some valid points. Al seems to be concerned about his taxes and firemen seem to be blinded by the point that someone read taxpayers have to pay them and they dopnt care that the taxpayers are making 1/2 what firemen are making. and that still isnt good enough. wahhmbulance = you said you work for both private and a town would you care to tell us how much the pay is in both? Doers private pay more or less? Are the benifits better in private of town?
yarmouthguy [Member] writes:
as for the Overtime break down wah provided lets be fair we really dont know how many hours that guy had to work to make 45K do we? $30 per hr OT is pretty good in my work. I would take it. Do they really make $30 per hr in OT?
wahhmbulance [Member] writes:
Yarmouthguy, what do you do?
"In my job I am required to take cont ed every yr at a cost of over $750 per. no one but me pays that. and I cover my own medical, dental, life and have NO retirment" $750 bucks? Please. . .
So because you cover your own benefits, everyone else should too?
As a firefighter, on the job for 4 years or so, I make a base salary of $41,000 per year. It breaks down to $19.71 per hour. My OT rate is $29.56/hour. I make $19.67 in the private service. I started there last month. Benefits are the same.
And yes, that OT breakdown is very accurate.
"In my job I am required to take cont ed every yr at a cost of over $750 per. no one but me pays that. and I cover my own medical, dental, life and have NO retirment" $750 bucks? Please. . .
So because you cover your own benefits, everyone else should too?
As a firefighter, on the job for 4 years or so, I make a base salary of $41,000 per year. It breaks down to $19.71 per hour. My OT rate is $29.56/hour. I make $19.67 in the private service. I started there last month. Benefits are the same.
And yes, that OT breakdown is very accurate.
wahhmbulance [Member] writes:
And like I've said before. Either pay OT or pay to hire more staff. It's that simple.
Yarmouthguy, how much would YOU pay per firefighter for fire and EMS protection??
Yarmouthguy, how much would YOU pay per firefighter for fire and EMS protection??
albert [Member] writes:
No Concerned Im neither jealous nor disgrutled. I hold both the YFD and YPD members in High regard. I just think with base pay around 50k and ot at 30-40K they got it pretty good. They seem to think they are entilted to something more and that their jobs are sooo much more important that the rest of us we should . They should get out of the station and see what the rest of us live on around here. I appreciate the job they do and I think they are more than adequately compensated for what they do. Wah asks how much would you pay per firefighter for fire and EMS protection. they do just fine with what they get now. I dont know but I would bet Yarmouth is in the upper 3rd for pay scale in both depts cape wide. Thats not bad. Do they really need to be the highest paid? and if they dont do this for the money (yah right) then why the big deal about a contract take no raise then. Oh thats right you think you are entitled to an automatic annual pay raise regardles of the towns ability to pay. That is not the way in the really world. If the company has no profits then no increase pay.
albert [Member] writes:
I love my firemen and Police but I need them to keep their hands out of my pocket. I like most in town have a limit to my income. They just increased my taxes and Im not thrilled about them now wanting more. WHEN is enough enough?
yarmouthguy [Member] writes:
wahhmbulance I work in the medical field and No im not a DR. I just looked up the cost for my cont. ed. Im required to take 3 courses per yr. Last yr The costs were $250, $195 and $220 Sorry my bad $665 last yr. What did you pay? do you really believe the answer is "And like I've said before. Either pay OT or pay to hire more staff. It's that simple" no third or forth option? either or take it or leave it? No wonder you dont have a contract.
First-Due [Member] writes:
WHen you have X number of Firefighters on a Dept. you have consider how many of these are available for "callbacks". Some Firefighters don't live within the callback boundries.
Then you have caculate how many hours these Firefighters put in per week to make their total income at the end of the year.
Then you have caculate how many hours these Firefighters put in per week to make their total income at the end of the year.
wahhmbulance [Member] writes:
"no third or forth option? either or take it or leave it? No wonder you dont have a contract" Yes, yarmouthguy, there is a third and fourth option:
Wait for mutual aid from other towns to come to Yarmouth to handle their emergencies, or, whoever is having the emergency has to wait until the Yarmouth ambulance or engine is available to handle the call. Any other ideas??
I don't know how much money spent, but I certainly spent my own free time. I took plenty more than 3 courses!
When conversations like this take place, I can only blame the fire service. People constantly say things like "eliminate overtime, no call back, decrease staffing," etc. etc. What this is is the failure of the fire departments to educate the public appropriately on their needs and requirements.
Wait for mutual aid from other towns to come to Yarmouth to handle their emergencies, or, whoever is having the emergency has to wait until the Yarmouth ambulance or engine is available to handle the call. Any other ideas??
I don't know how much money spent, but I certainly spent my own free time. I took plenty more than 3 courses!
When conversations like this take place, I can only blame the fire service. People constantly say things like "eliminate overtime, no call back, decrease staffing," etc. etc. What this is is the failure of the fire departments to educate the public appropriately on their needs and requirements.
yarmouthguy [Member] writes:
WAH I agreee with the last para of your last statement 80% Blame should go to both sides. Most of us here have no clue what the contracts say or what is the "best way" to provide quality service to the taxpayer. We live in 2 different worlds you dont understand the private sector and they dont understand you. We only know it cost us in tax dollars and want to keep control over that amount. We all respect what you do (even Albert) we just want to find a better way if there is one. The town and Union should be working together to find that "better way" not fight against change with each other. We are all in this together.
yarmresident [Member] writes:
educate...yes! Discuss negotiations...NO. Albert has been given info that i am sure was told to him in confidence, his source would be upset to see him spouting off on a blog site. The selectmens meeting Tues.night was clear not to associate this matter of overtime with current negotiations. All of you, firemen as well, need to understand that this issue is about increased calls for service and a decrease in reimbursements. Lets educate each other in a civil "Professional" manner.
to the uninformed [Member] writes:
albert do some more research before spouting off you have no idea. Sorry
albert [Member] writes:
yarmres isnt it interesting what you can pick up around town when you listen. I have no knowlege of contract issues and what the hang ups are. but It does not take a rocket scientist to put 2 & 2 together. They said it was about a contract that they could not talk about. If its not money then what could it be? Te firemen here keep saying they dont work for money yet that is exactly what this seems to be all about the town keep blowing thru it ot budget. They need to get together and fix it. simple. If you take offense to my comments OH well I take offense to continuing to pay pay pay. Sorry Im not rich many of us are on fixed incomes and cant afford to pay for more ot. There must be a better way and it seems to me both sides should be able to sit in a room and work out a soultion. am I wrong?
Dr Know [Member] writes:
Is it possible that the firemen have a problem with the fire chief? I have heard this but have no way of really knowing. Can anybody shed any light on this?
wahhmbulance [Member] writes:
THere could be hundreds of reasons why negotiations go wrong. THe union could possibly want more money. Maybe the town wants the firefighters to work 48 hour shifts, maybe the chief wants the firefighters to wear suit and ties to work everyday, or the town wants to take away all their benefits. Maybe the union wants 100 more vacation days a year, I don't know (I've exaggerated slightly here!). There are so many possibilities. But, they're confidential, so we'll never know! Only the negotiating members of the union and the town and chief know. Not all the firefighters know, either, because it's even confidential from them.
I don't know if YFD ff's have a problem with their chief. I don't know if the chief has a problem with them. It's possible, I guess. Not everyone likes their boss, do they?
I don't know if YFD ff's have a problem with their chief. I don't know if the chief has a problem with them. It's possible, I guess. Not everyone likes their boss, do they?
soundrider [Member] writes:
Hi there folks, I'm in Abuja Nigeria trying to trace an old friend of mine who I saw last in July 1991 when we met in Lagos.Bob Lawton also came on that visit.His Name is Paul Dillon.I thought Bob Lawton could be of help in this regard as a fellow "Brother of the Leaf".The last I heard was that Paul had relocated to Connecticut from Minneapolis to serve at the ECK Temple there.
I did a google search on Bob Lawton the Firefighter and well, here I am in this blog.
If I have the correct Bob Lawton, I believe his wife's name is Luanne and we all belong to Wah Z's circle of friends, could you please tell Paul Dillon that his architect friend from Nigeria has been trying to reach him for the past 16 years.My company email is designworksandservices@yahoo.com
Thanks.
I did a google search on Bob Lawton the Firefighter and well, here I am in this blog.
If I have the correct Bob Lawton, I believe his wife's name is Luanne and we all belong to Wah Z's circle of friends, could you please tell Paul Dillon that his architect friend from Nigeria has been trying to reach him for the past 16 years.My company email is designworksandservices@yahoo.com
Thanks.
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