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Should The Town Of Yarmouth Consider Privatizing The Ambulance Service?
12/06/06 · 3:57 pm :: posted by Cape Cod Republican
Over the past few weeks there has been a lot of discussion on another budget shortfall in manning the West Yarmouth Fire Station. In Fiscal Year 06 the shortfall was an overtime deficit of $143,000. So far in this fiscal year (07) the overtime deficit as of 11/04 is $86,000. The Town is going to need approximately $200,000 in additional funding to operate the way they are operating now to recall people. The ambulance is responsible for 75% of all the Fire runs in Yarmouth.
Overtime Fiscal Year 05 and 06.
The Fire Departments total overtime for fiscal year 05 was just over 1 million dollars. Part of this was reto active on a contract settlement. The figures for fiscal year 06 that ended on June 30th was a little over 1 million dollars.
Why So Much Overtime?
Presently the Town of Yarmouth is in negations with the Fire Dept Union. These negations have been going on for the last 11-months and have now reached a stalemate and is going to mediation. There are many issues involved and overtime is one of these issues . The big problem is the Fire Dept. needs to live within it's budgeted overtime amount. The present contract calls for the firemen to be paid overtime when they back fill a station. The Fire Dept Union is supposed to be asking for a 3-year contract with a 5% pay raise for each year of the contract.
Private Companies.
There are many private ambulance companies in the state. One company in the Greater Boston and South Shore area has six municipal contracts and is looking to expand. The Company provides municipal 911 service to Braintree, Brookline, Dedham, Milton, Quincy and Weymouth. The Private Company also provides it's services as far south as Plymouth.
Public vs Private?
Would a private company save the taxpayers money and provide the same excellent service we have now in providing ambulance service? Or would it be better to still have the Town of Yarmouth provide the ambulance service for it's taxpayers. Should there be another Override to hire more Fire personnel to resolve the overtime shortfall ?
The Bottom Line
The time has come for the Board of Selectmen to consider looking at all the options that is best for the Taxpayers in the Town of Yarmouth?
99 comments
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wahhmbulance [Member] writes:
"Would a private company save the taxpayers money and provide the same excellent service we have now in providing ambulance service" If the service is excellent, stop complaining!
So let's say Yarmouth hires AMR to do EMS in town. How many ambulances are you going to have, and what happens when an ambulance crew is tied up on a trip to the hospital, or on an extended call?
Let's say AMR puts 1 ALS (Advanced Life Support, staffed with 1 or 2 paramedics) unit and 2 BLS (Basic Life Support, staffed with 2 EMT-Basics)units. The ALS unit goes to the hospital with a patient having chest pain. Just as their leaving, a call for a respiratory distress call comes in. Where are you going to get the paramedics to respond to administer treatment to THIS patient? Does AMR do call-back? No . . . So the BLS units will handle the call. Unfortunately, they cannot adminster some of the life-saving medications that paramedics can administer.
Maybe the fire department medics can respond, but you probably don't have any anymore because they're not really needed.
So let's say Yarmouth hires AMR to do EMS in town. How many ambulances are you going to have, and what happens when an ambulance crew is tied up on a trip to the hospital, or on an extended call?
Let's say AMR puts 1 ALS (Advanced Life Support, staffed with 1 or 2 paramedics) unit and 2 BLS (Basic Life Support, staffed with 2 EMT-Basics)units. The ALS unit goes to the hospital with a patient having chest pain. Just as their leaving, a call for a respiratory distress call comes in. Where are you going to get the paramedics to respond to administer treatment to THIS patient? Does AMR do call-back? No . . . So the BLS units will handle the call. Unfortunately, they cannot adminster some of the life-saving medications that paramedics can administer.
Maybe the fire department medics can respond, but you probably don't have any anymore because they're not really needed.
wahhmbulance [Member] writes:
YOu certainly wouldn't pay to have FD medics if you're also paying to have private service medics, would you?
Stick with the fire department EMS. It's the fastest, it's the best. The Cape's mutual aid system is excellent, too.
When the public calls for help, the fire department shows up. Regardless of the time of day, regardless of how busy it is, and regardless of the emergency.
What price can you put on that??
Stick with the fire department EMS. It's the fastest, it's the best. The Cape's mutual aid system is excellent, too.
When the public calls for help, the fire department shows up. Regardless of the time of day, regardless of how busy it is, and regardless of the emergency.
What price can you put on that??
Concerned2 [Member] writes:
WAH, I would assume that if Yarmouth went to a Private EMS Service then the town would layoff what 1/3, 1/2 the Fire Dept. has now? I would call that a crying shame losing in my opinion dedicated FF's Paramedics to a Private service that like you say, might actually REDUCE the level of carethe Fire Dept provides for us.
wahhmbulance [Member] writes:
They just may. And there are TONS of reasons why that would be a shame, from a decrease in customer service to firefighter safety. EMS makes up about 70-80 percent of fire department calls on the Cape. I think Yarmouth does a little more than 5,000 calls annually. That's about 37-3800 calls that just got taken away from the fire department. There would have to be significant layoffs, reduction in stations and apparatus. And most certainly, a decrease in the level of care and "customer service" provided to the town of Yarmouth.
yarmouthguy [Member] writes:
Wah I have not seen anyone post regarding quality of service. it looks to me that everyone agrees Yarmouth Fp is professinal and provides quality service, the question is can you provide similar quality service for less. AS for the layoff issue wouldnt most of those guys go to work for the ambulance co. still providing quality service? Wah you last comment is based on some very large and biased assumptions arent they?
Gary Lopez [Member] writes:
Yarmouth could also consider running ambulance through the Board of Health, like Boston's EMS Service. The town would hire paramedics, whose only job would be essential services and ambulance transfers.
Taking ambulance service away from the fire department would cut overtime to zero.
Taking ambulance service away from the fire department would cut overtime to zero.
Mcfly [Member] writes:
I guess we know who the Yarmouth firefighters are, see most of the above.
Does anyone have any proof that private companies are not as good as Town employees because most of Boston ambulance service is provided by private companies and I have never heard of any lack of service and Boston is much larger than Yarmouth, by a mile.
Does anyone have any proof that private companies are not as good as Town employees because most of Boston ambulance service is provided by private companies and I have never heard of any lack of service and Boston is much larger than Yarmouth, by a mile.
First-Due [Member] writes:
As far as the guys working for a ambulance co. that may well be true, but what a slap in the face for these men and women who strived to be a Firefighter/EMT or Paramedic. If the Dept. were to provide for less than wouldn;t be safe to assume that may promote them into seeking other Dept.'s for employment?
Mr. Lopez do you know that Bostone EMS is also part of the Boston Patrolman's Union? What are ambulance transfers as you speak of? Do you know that Cape Cod Hospital contracts their "tranfers" with Cape Cod Ambulance?
You say zero OT, so when they layoff X number of Firefighters are you saying the town will not need to maintain a certain level of Fire Protection?
Mr. Lopez do you know that Bostone EMS is also part of the Boston Patrolman's Union? What are ambulance transfers as you speak of? Do you know that Cape Cod Hospital contracts their "tranfers" with Cape Cod Ambulance?
You say zero OT, so when they layoff X number of Firefighters are you saying the town will not need to maintain a certain level of Fire Protection?
wahhmbulance [Member] writes:
No, I'm not in Yarmouth, I'm in Brewster, actually.
Overtime would not be zero if the town eliminates EMS. You'd still need callback for fire type incidents, as they are more manpower intensive, anyway.
"Boston ambulance service is provided by private companies and I have never heard of any lack of service and Boston is much larger than Yarmouth, by a mile"
Yes, but Boston EMS is backed up by a number of other private companies, because they don't have the necessary personnel and ambulances to handle the call volume, and they Don't have callback!
They also wear bullet proof vests to work. NO thank you.
Overtime would not be zero if the town eliminates EMS. You'd still need callback for fire type incidents, as they are more manpower intensive, anyway.
"Boston ambulance service is provided by private companies and I have never heard of any lack of service and Boston is much larger than Yarmouth, by a mile"
Yes, but Boston EMS is backed up by a number of other private companies, because they don't have the necessary personnel and ambulances to handle the call volume, and they Don't have callback!
They also wear bullet proof vests to work. NO thank you.
maverick [Member] writes:
To Albert and all the rest of you...I witnessed a heroin overdose at Allen Harbor. The police and firefighters responded. They pronounced the guy dead.
Shortly thereafter a friend of mine who is a paramedic in Harwich arrived to a screaming scene. Daughter... My dad is dead. The rest of the crowd...who cares.
My friend put him in the back of the paramedic vehicle and gave him the narq treatment. Within ten minutes he was up smiling and cursing my buddy for ruining his high.
Firefighters, police and paramedics can not be paid enough for their service. They are true heroes.
After 9/11 who could ever question their value or valor.
Shortly thereafter a friend of mine who is a paramedic in Harwich arrived to a screaming scene. Daughter... My dad is dead. The rest of the crowd...who cares.
My friend put him in the back of the paramedic vehicle and gave him the narq treatment. Within ten minutes he was up smiling and cursing my buddy for ruining his high.
Firefighters, police and paramedics can not be paid enough for their service. They are true heroes.
After 9/11 who could ever question their value or valor.
Dr Know [Member] writes:
Yarmouth did a serious study on going to private ambulance a few years back. what they found out was that NO private company would commit to the response times, or even the number of ambulances that are dedicated to Yarmouth that the fire department runs. In other words, if you need am ambulance it is probable that you will have to wait until one of the private ambulances doing a non-emergency transport to be free. Speaking of free, the private companies are notorious for hounding customers (not patients) for money. There is no abatement of an ambulance bill from a profit making company. ant on toop of that it was determined that the fire department would not able to maintain any reasonable level of service without a huge tax increase. the Firemen are doing two jobs for the price of one. I like it the way it is, thank you.
yarmresident [Member] writes:
Taxpayer...to include what the union is supposedly asking for in your discussion is one sided and innapropriate. OT is not a subject of bargaining. This OT problem is not an issue of bargaining, it has been said many times this is about increased calls for service and decreased reimbursments from insurance. The Town has taken measures in West yarmouth to control those costs. The last sentence in your paragraph "why so much overtme" should be removed for it is here say, and misleading.
wahhmbulance [Member] writes:
"the Firemen are doing two jobs for the price of one"
And three jobs, and four jobs, etc. Not only do we put out fires, and not only are we paramedics or EMT's, but I personally also perform the following:
Firefighter
Engine/Apparatus driver/operator
Paramedic
Instructor
Training Committee
Uniform acquisition
Rescue Swimmer
Search and Rescue/Recovery Diver
Rapid Intervention
And not to mention that most fire departments are the ONLY town departments that perform their own janitorial services. When was the last time you saw a police officer or town clerk scrubbing their own toilets??
And what I do is a minimum! There are so many other firefighters that do far more than I do!
Hazardous Materials
Tech Rescue (incl. rope, trench high angle rescue, etc.)
EMS coordinator
Fire Prevention
Fire Inspection
Fire Investigator
Dispatcher
And most of these functions are just part of the job. Most firefighters are not paid extra to perform these functions.
And at any time of any day, firefighters have to be prepared to respond to ANY of the above
And three jobs, and four jobs, etc. Not only do we put out fires, and not only are we paramedics or EMT's, but I personally also perform the following:
Firefighter
Engine/Apparatus driver/operator
Paramedic
Instructor
Training Committee
Uniform acquisition
Rescue Swimmer
Search and Rescue/Recovery Diver
Rapid Intervention
And not to mention that most fire departments are the ONLY town departments that perform their own janitorial services. When was the last time you saw a police officer or town clerk scrubbing their own toilets??
And what I do is a minimum! There are so many other firefighters that do far more than I do!
Hazardous Materials
Tech Rescue (incl. rope, trench high angle rescue, etc.)
EMS coordinator
Fire Prevention
Fire Inspection
Fire Investigator
Dispatcher
And most of these functions are just part of the job. Most firefighters are not paid extra to perform these functions.
And at any time of any day, firefighters have to be prepared to respond to ANY of the above
wahhmbulance [Member] writes:
situations that I had mentioned.
And that doesn't include any of the responsibilities that an officer has.
And that doesn't include any of the responsibilities that an officer has.
Monponsett [Member] writes:
When i was teaching, i was also:
- Counselor
- Mom
- Chef
- Driver
- Protector
- Bail Bondsman
- Cop
- Arbitration
- Coach
- Activities Director
- Maid
- Computer troubleshooter
- Goodwill
- Monponsett Savings and Loan
- Job Searcher
- Babysitter (it wasn't at all unusual for girls to bring their baby into school on days Mom was working)
- Metal Detector
- Social Worker
- Reference
- Point Guard
I've never gone into a burning building after someone, but you've never hung onto a kid's arm when he was trying to stab another kid. I've never had to work a firehose in February, but you'venever had someone 3 times your size come after you going "I'm gonna kill you, b*tch." I hid under my desk, and survived... when I popped my head back up, there were like 5 security guards on him.
I suppose we'd have to drop paychecks on the table to see who has it worse.... but I also suppose that both of us ended our days knowing that we did just a little good in the world that day.
- Counselor
- Mom
- Chef
- Driver
- Protector
- Bail Bondsman
- Cop
- Arbitration
- Coach
- Activities Director
- Maid
- Computer troubleshooter
- Goodwill
- Monponsett Savings and Loan
- Job Searcher
- Babysitter (it wasn't at all unusual for girls to bring their baby into school on days Mom was working)
- Metal Detector
- Social Worker
- Reference
- Point Guard
I've never gone into a burning building after someone, but you've never hung onto a kid's arm when he was trying to stab another kid. I've never had to work a firehose in February, but you'venever had someone 3 times your size come after you going "I'm gonna kill you, b*tch." I hid under my desk, and survived... when I popped my head back up, there were like 5 security guards on him.
I suppose we'd have to drop paychecks on the table to see who has it worse.... but I also suppose that both of us ended our days knowing that we did just a little good in the world that day.
wahhmbulance [Member] writes:
Yikes! Sounds like you taught in the good section of town (sarcasm)! Where was it?
And yes, I've had similar situations like the one you've mentioned, too. It sucks when you try to do your best for someone, and you get abused anyway!
And yes, I've had similar situations like the one you've mentioned, too. It sucks when you try to do your best for someone, and you get abused anyway!
Dr Know [Member] writes:
33 year old Firefighter Steven Solomon wont be home for Christmas. He died as a result of injuries suffered while fighting a house fire in Atlanta on Thanksgiving night.
Gary Lopez [Member] writes:
The Centerville Osterville Marstons Mills Fire District services nearly as many people as the Yarmouth FD.
COMM typically hooks up to a fire hydrant to extinguish a fire only 10 times a year.
How much overtime could result from less than one real fire call every six weeks?
A married couple who are firefighters in the Cotuit Fire Department earned a quarter million dollars last year. Their home is assessed at $1 million.
Most of their salary was overtime from ambulance calls, not for Cotuit, that has only 1,500 residents, but from outside aid to Mashpee.
Mashpee ambulance calls bring patients to Falmouth Hospital, a 40 minute drive from Cotuit.
Cotuit has only one ambulance.
Cotuit residents are without ambulance service for as much as an hour and a half when its ambulance is on a Mashpee run.
The couple's overtime was $125,000.
That means Cotuit had more time without an ambulance than it did with one.
The people in every city and town using private ambulance providers swear their essential service is the best.
Private ambulance service makes sense
COMM typically hooks up to a fire hydrant to extinguish a fire only 10 times a year.
How much overtime could result from less than one real fire call every six weeks?
A married couple who are firefighters in the Cotuit Fire Department earned a quarter million dollars last year. Their home is assessed at $1 million.
Most of their salary was overtime from ambulance calls, not for Cotuit, that has only 1,500 residents, but from outside aid to Mashpee.
Mashpee ambulance calls bring patients to Falmouth Hospital, a 40 minute drive from Cotuit.
Cotuit has only one ambulance.
Cotuit residents are without ambulance service for as much as an hour and a half when its ambulance is on a Mashpee run.
The couple's overtime was $125,000.
That means Cotuit had more time without an ambulance than it did with one.
The people in every city and town using private ambulance providers swear their essential service is the best.
Private ambulance service makes sense
wahhmbulance [Member] writes:
Well, then fire all the firefighters, make them a call/volunteer department (because they'd only be needed 10 times per year), hire a private company and see what happens.
Mcfly [Member] writes:
Without the ambulance service we could essentially use a call fire department couldn't we?
bubslola [Member] writes:
Mopo, Did it take a lot out of you to come up with that a bit over exaggerated list? I do agree in many school systems teachers go above and beyond teaching but...you were like a Tom Evanglista from All City Bail Bonds? or Wonderwoman?? Maybe, I misread what you wrote but comparing a teacher to a firefighter? or an EMT? Its like apples and SPAM. No comparison.
Gary Lopez [Member] writes:
The town employs policemen, teachers, DPW workers, health workers, administrators, firemen, and all sorts of people.
Taxpayers want their services and are willing to pay the costs of having their services.
The issue is excessive overtime costs.
The reason for excessive fire overtime is that firefighters perform two jobs at the same time.
In ALL Massachusetts cities, EXCEPT BARNSTABLE, firefighters are either NOT involved or partially involved with ambulance services, which means the city pays zilch for ambulance service, and firefighters get little or no overtime.
Taxpayers want their services and are willing to pay the costs of having their services.
The issue is excessive overtime costs.
The reason for excessive fire overtime is that firefighters perform two jobs at the same time.
In ALL Massachusetts cities, EXCEPT BARNSTABLE, firefighters are either NOT involved or partially involved with ambulance services, which means the city pays zilch for ambulance service, and firefighters get little or no overtime.
bubslola [Member] writes:
Mc Fly, Let's hope a residental fire doesn't break out the same time there is a car accident on route 6 or a patient having a stroke at any of our many nursing homes. People have to really put into perspective that a firefighter/EMT never knows what is going to happen on shift. EVER
Monponsett [Member] writes:
Cambridge and Charlestown.
Dr Know [Member] writes:
Gary Lopez.
I'm sure you know that if you do away with (or even reduce) the number of full time firefighters on duty 24 hours a day your insurance rates will go up more than your taxes go down. There is an agency called the Insurance Service Orgaization that rates each towns fire departments and sets the fire insurance rates for that town. With a fire department that is largely funded through ambulance fees they can afford to maintain manpower that is more attractive to the ISO.
I'm sure you know that if you do away with (or even reduce) the number of full time firefighters on duty 24 hours a day your insurance rates will go up more than your taxes go down. There is an agency called the Insurance Service Orgaization that rates each towns fire departments and sets the fire insurance rates for that town. With a fire department that is largely funded through ambulance fees they can afford to maintain manpower that is more attractive to the ISO.
Dr Know [Member] writes:
One more thing Gary.
Private ambulance companies do charge the municipalities for their service; as well as charging the patients.
Private ambulance companies do charge the municipalities for their service; as well as charging the patients.
yarmouthguy [Member] writes:
JOe 6 pack wont be down for breakfast he died of a heart attack when he opened his tax bill. You gotta you the scare tactics of these guys. YOu are a great group but please dont insult us with those sill tactics. We all understand the importants of what you do.
yarmouthguy [Member] writes:
WAh your list is what we call in the real world our job description and guess what sometimes we to do things above and beyond that list. Dont make yourself out to be something special for that. we can all put those lists together as proved by Monponsett. NO ONE questions the valor, commitment or professionalism of the FD. Stop beating your chest.
Dr Know [Member] writes:
Too bad Joe 6 pack had to wait twenty minutew for a private ambulance to come from two towns away, maybe he would have lived on to become Joe thirty pack.
bubslola [Member] writes:
Yarmouthguy I'm not questioning your charcter but do you really feel its chest thumping? Does your job have the risks and unexpected moments the a FD/EMT has?
bubslola [Member] writes:
Mopo, Charlestown...yes
But...Cambridge...please. Let me ask was your superwoman cape, silk, satin or that very PC cotton?? I just don't know how you do it Mopo, Smurf, East of Beantown??????????
But...Cambridge...please. Let me ask was your superwoman cape, silk, satin or that very PC cotton?? I just don't know how you do it Mopo, Smurf, East of Beantown??????????
Mcfly [Member] writes:
I am not saying it's a good idea or realistic but since 80% of the calls are for EMT's not fire a call fire fighter force could save the town money.
It's not like the town has house fires weekly, or even monthly.
It's not like the town has house fires weekly, or even monthly.
Gary Lopez [Member] writes:
I've been critical of Barnstable's five separate fire departments for at least ten years. Last year I telephoned City Halls and finance departmets of 25 Greater Boston cities with contracts with private ambulance providers. Not one said their ambulance contracts required any city funding.
I also talked with the President of Fallon Ambulance Company who said they typically sign contracts that specify they will send two paramedics who will arrive within five minutes of the 911 call. He also called the Barnstable fire districts, "double dippers," which means the districts collect from insurance companies, then go back and invoice amblance clients for the difference between their invoice and the insurance payment.
Remember EVERY CITY, CITY EXCEPT BARNSTABLE, uses private ambulance providers, and I have never read of someone dying because the ambulance took to long. All this talk about horrible service from Fallon, AMS, or any others cannot be substantiated.
I also talked with the President of Fallon Ambulance Company who said they typically sign contracts that specify they will send two paramedics who will arrive within five minutes of the 911 call. He also called the Barnstable fire districts, "double dippers," which means the districts collect from insurance companies, then go back and invoice amblance clients for the difference between their invoice and the insurance payment.
Remember EVERY CITY, CITY EXCEPT BARNSTABLE, uses private ambulance providers, and I have never read of someone dying because the ambulance took to long. All this talk about horrible service from Fallon, AMS, or any others cannot be substantiated.
First-Due [Member] writes:
Mr. Lopez have you been told "think before you speak"? Get your facts together. First of all you are blatenly lying here aobut BARNSTABLE IS THE ONLY PLACDE THAT DOES NOT USE PRIVATE AMBULANCES. In fact there lots of Mass. Fire Dept.'s that have GONE TO FIRE BASED ADVANCED LIFE SUPPORT AMBULANCES. Here are a few Stoughton, Easton, Holbrook, Cambridge in the Process, Kihgston,Marshfield,Mansfield,Duxbury to name only a few. SO get your facts straight here before going on and on here about what you think may know.
Monponsett [Member] writes:
My students from Cambridge were undoubtedly the most dangerous group of kids I worked with in my career. Trust me... you can get killed in Cambridge very easily.
No superwoman stuff... just a teacher who cared, stuck in a really nasty environment.
No superwoman stuff... just a teacher who cared, stuck in a really nasty environment.
yarmouthguy [Member] writes:
bub's lola The point is there are lots of danerous jobs. As a matter of FACT Fireman does not even come in in the top 10. According to money mag. Sep 2006 Taxi Divers have a more danergous job (#10) and Yes There jobs have risk and unexpected moments. Logging is the most dangerous, Pilot is #2 and Fisherman is #3. NO one need to be reminded that the Fireman job is dangerous. AGAIN! NO ONE questions their bravewr, valor, professionalism. This talk is not about that. If the subject was are firemen do they have an easy job then I could see where this list of great stuff they do would be relevant. Its not relevant here.
Gary Lopez [Member] writes:
First Due.. Perhaps you better learn to read. I said CITIES, NOT TOWNS. There are 351 cities and towns in Massachusetts of which less than 100 are cities or towns big enough to lure private ambulance providers to work for insurance claims.
Interestingly the only city you mentioned was Cambridge, but you misstated the facts.
Cambridge uses Professional Amblance Service, Inc. for its ambulance service work. The city pays Professional nothing. The company bills insurance providers for their revenue. Professional does not "doouble bill" for the differences in insurance and invoice amounts.
Cambridge, population 100,000, does have two fire department ambulances used as fist responders should the 911 call be deemed a priority.
Please learn to read, and please be accurate. You'll get along in life much easier if you do.
Interestingly the only city you mentioned was Cambridge, but you misstated the facts.
Cambridge uses Professional Amblance Service, Inc. for its ambulance service work. The city pays Professional nothing. The company bills insurance providers for their revenue. Professional does not "doouble bill" for the differences in insurance and invoice amounts.
Cambridge, population 100,000, does have two fire department ambulances used as fist responders should the 911 call be deemed a priority.
Please learn to read, and please be accurate. You'll get along in life much easier if you do.
Gary Lopez [Member] writes:
To whomever replied about ISO ratings, I'd like to mention that ambulance service plays NO PART in ISO ratings.
Factors that do play a role in a community's ISO rating are; Fire alarm survey, Fire department survey
Fire Suppression Rating Schedule and commentaries, Water-supply evaluations, lternative water supplies, Relative-value tables
Divergence factors, Response-time considerations, Engine-company equipment, Service-company equipment
Ladder-company equipment, FSRS equivalency list, Maximum age for apparatus, Automatic aid
Training, Needed fire flow, Monitoring emergency circuits for integrity programs, Criteria for distribution of companies.
Nothing about ambulance and overtime.
Factors that do play a role in a community's ISO rating are; Fire alarm survey, Fire department survey
Fire Suppression Rating Schedule and commentaries, Water-supply evaluations, lternative water supplies, Relative-value tables
Divergence factors, Response-time considerations, Engine-company equipment, Service-company equipment
Ladder-company equipment, FSRS equivalency list, Maximum age for apparatus, Automatic aid
Training, Needed fire flow, Monitoring emergency circuits for integrity programs, Criteria for distribution of companies.
Nothing about ambulance and overtime.
wahhmbulance [Member] writes:
"To whomever replied about ISO ratings, I'd like to mention that ambulance service plays NO PART in ISO ratings."
That is correct, I believe, and if I'm not mistaken, ISO only affects commercial insurance . . . I'm not sure though.
That is correct, I believe, and if I'm not mistaken, ISO only affects commercial insurance . . . I'm not sure though.
wahhmbulance [Member] writes:
"Fallon Ambulance Company who said they typically sign contracts that specify they will send two paramedics who will arrive within five minutes of the 911 call."
Ok, what happens when those 2 paramedics are tied up on one call, and there is another call?
Ok, what happens when those 2 paramedics are tied up on one call, and there is another call?
wahhmbulance [Member] writes:
"A married couple who are firefighters in the Cotuit Fire Department earned a quarter million dollars last year. Their home is assessed at $1 million.
Most of their salary was overtime from ambulance calls, not for Cotuit, that has only 1,500 residents, but from outside aid to Mashpee.
Mashpee ambulance calls bring patients to Falmouth Hospital, a 40 minute drive from Cotuit.
Cotuit has only one ambulance.
Cotuit residents are without ambulance service for as much as an hour and a half when its ambulance is on a Mashpee run.
The couple's overtime was $125,000.
That means Cotuit had more time without an ambulance than it did with one."
Cotuit did 715 TOTAL calls last year. That includes mutual aid. If this couple you speak of responded to EVERY single call, I still don't think they could have made that much. Check your facts again . . .
Most of their salary was overtime from ambulance calls, not for Cotuit, that has only 1,500 residents, but from outside aid to Mashpee.
Mashpee ambulance calls bring patients to Falmouth Hospital, a 40 minute drive from Cotuit.
Cotuit has only one ambulance.
Cotuit residents are without ambulance service for as much as an hour and a half when its ambulance is on a Mashpee run.
The couple's overtime was $125,000.
That means Cotuit had more time without an ambulance than it did with one."
Cotuit did 715 TOTAL calls last year. That includes mutual aid. If this couple you speak of responded to EVERY single call, I still don't think they could have made that much. Check your facts again . . .
wahhmbulance [Member] writes:
SO Yarmouthguy, how much do you want to pay a firefighter? And what's your solution to maintain staffing? I'd like to know!
wahhmbulance [Member] writes:
"He also called the Barnstable fire districts, "double dippers," which means the districts collect from insurance companies, then go back and invoice amblance clients for the difference between their invoice and the insurance payment."
How is that "double dipping?" It's collecting on the balance of a bill. If I go to the dentist, and my insurance only covers x%, then I'm expected to pick up the balance. I don't understand what your Fallon guy was talking about.
How is that "double dipping?" It's collecting on the balance of a bill. If I go to the dentist, and my insurance only covers x%, then I'm expected to pick up the balance. I don't understand what your Fallon guy was talking about.
yarmouthguy [Member] writes:
Wah I have already answered this question but willagain. I think they get paid pretty darn good right now. If its soooobad to be a Cop or fireman why ar so many signing up to take the entrance exams? over 200 took the YPD exam and I hear 50 or 60 the fire exam.
I have alos said numerous times I DONT HAVE THE ANSWER!!! But I believe that those involved should be able to work it out without always reaching into my pocket. More money is not always the answer. You guys sound like the teachers union. GEeesh if you give us more money and we have only 2 kids in a class then they will be able to read and write. pleaseeeee its not always about money. Work together and find a better way. thats all. If I had the answer I would be sitting telling them now instead of trying to have a conversation like the one we have here. and just so you undertand me I REALLY DO THANK YOU! for your commitment to your profession. you appear to be a decent guy but with a little thin skin.
I have alos said numerous times I DONT HAVE THE ANSWER!!! But I believe that those involved should be able to work it out without always reaching into my pocket. More money is not always the answer. You guys sound like the teachers union. GEeesh if you give us more money and we have only 2 kids in a class then they will be able to read and write. pleaseeeee its not always about money. Work together and find a better way. thats all. If I had the answer I would be sitting telling them now instead of trying to have a conversation like the one we have here. and just so you undertand me I REALLY DO THANK YOU! for your commitment to your profession. you appear to be a decent guy but with a little thin skin.
wahhmbulance [Member] writes:
"Wah I have already answered this question but willagain" Oops, you're right. I was thinking of something else. Sorry I wasn't paying attention! :-)
"If its soooobad to be a Cop or fireman " It's not bad at all. Best job in the world.
"But I believe that those involved should be able to work it out without always reaching into my pocket" Unfortunately, fire and medical (etc.) protection costs money. You have to have the appropriate staffing levels to handle emergency calls. It's that simple. So, the choice is still the same. Either pay for call-back, or hire more full-time personnel. If you wanted to go back in time, you could form a call department and hope someone would show up when an emergency occurs.
This isn't scare tactics, it's fact. Minutes really do count in most emergencies. I'm not saying people are going to die violent deaths if you don't have callback, but Minutes are precious during heart attacks, stroke, trauma, cardiac arrest, and structure fires.
Even during a "simple" difficulty breathing call, minutes are important. (Cont)
"If its soooobad to be a Cop or fireman " It's not bad at all. Best job in the world.
"But I believe that those involved should be able to work it out without always reaching into my pocket" Unfortunately, fire and medical (etc.) protection costs money. You have to have the appropriate staffing levels to handle emergency calls. It's that simple. So, the choice is still the same. Either pay for call-back, or hire more full-time personnel. If you wanted to go back in time, you could form a call department and hope someone would show up when an emergency occurs.
This isn't scare tactics, it's fact. Minutes really do count in most emergencies. I'm not saying people are going to die violent deaths if you don't have callback, but Minutes are precious during heart attacks, stroke, trauma, cardiac arrest, and structure fires.
Even during a "simple" difficulty breathing call, minutes are important. (Cont)
wahhmbulance [Member] writes:
To test this, breathe through a straw for 5 minutes (or whatever you pick for an average response time), then stop. That's how long it would take to administer medications to get you breathing well again.
Now, Breathe through a straw for 10 minutes, because maybe that's how long it would take for call personnel to respond from their homes, to the fire station to pick up an ambulance, then respond to your house.
Ok, now breathe through a straw for 20 minutes. That's how long it will take for the one paramedic truck to get back to town from their ALS transfer from one of their contracted nursing homes. (And I work for a private company off Cape. If you don't think that happens, trust me, it does. Got sent through 3 towns and 20-25 minutes to a contracted nursing home for a medical emergency, because any closer units were not available. It's the sad truth.).
Not using scare tactics, it's fact. Nothing beats having fire department EMS response wise, or skill wise.
Now, Breathe through a straw for 10 minutes, because maybe that's how long it would take for call personnel to respond from their homes, to the fire station to pick up an ambulance, then respond to your house.
Ok, now breathe through a straw for 20 minutes. That's how long it will take for the one paramedic truck to get back to town from their ALS transfer from one of their contracted nursing homes. (And I work for a private company off Cape. If you don't think that happens, trust me, it does. Got sent through 3 towns and 20-25 minutes to a contracted nursing home for a medical emergency, because any closer units were not available. It's the sad truth.).
Not using scare tactics, it's fact. Nothing beats having fire department EMS response wise, or skill wise.
wahhmbulance [Member] writes:
"you appear to be a decent guy but with a little thin skin." No, but I just get slightly defensive when people start questioning paying ff's overtime, and their reasoning behind it.
Do you question why the DPW pays overtime during snow storms so that they can plow roads?
Do you question the police overtime when they get overtime to come in and cover empty shifts?
Do you question when you pay the car mechanic or plumber or electrician 75-80 dollars an hour for THEIR services? How about lawyers? Have you ever hired one?
I agree that senseless spending is rediculous. Our town purchased a quarter acre of useless median land for a million bucks, then spent thousands more cleaning up the haz-mat that was buried underneath. But it kills me that the same people at town meeting that vote for purchases like this one, are so adimant against paying firefighters overtime.
Do you question why the DPW pays overtime during snow storms so that they can plow roads?
Do you question the police overtime when they get overtime to come in and cover empty shifts?
Do you question when you pay the car mechanic or plumber or electrician 75-80 dollars an hour for THEIR services? How about lawyers? Have you ever hired one?
I agree that senseless spending is rediculous. Our town purchased a quarter acre of useless median land for a million bucks, then spent thousands more cleaning up the haz-mat that was buried underneath. But it kills me that the same people at town meeting that vote for purchases like this one, are so adimant against paying firefighters overtime.
wahhmbulance [Member] writes:
What kind of health care worker are you, anyway?
Dr Know [Member] writes:
I did some research in the town report today. About sixty full time firefighters split up about 900,000 dollars. I think that averages out to be 15,000 a year. Clearly not all firemen made 45K in overtime.
Dr Know [Member] writes:
My earlier comments about ISO ratings was in response to the person who claimed that we could have an all call fire department if we had a private ambulance company. And I'm pretty sure the ISO rating applies to all properties. It may not say so on the policy but you know how insurance companies work.
First-Due [Member] writes:
Mr.Lopez sorry for understanding the difference between a city or town. However when was Barnstable declared a city? Also,yes most CITIES in MASS have private EMS, that's how it's been for many decades. Barnstable County was the 1st in the State to adopt Fire Based long ago. If you look outside the State you would find that cities such as LA, Miami, Ft.Lauderdale, Phoenix, San Francisico, Concord N.H., Providence R.I., etc, all have Fire Based EMS.
It seems that you have lots of inside knowledge here so don;t you please come forward with a plan that would work for both sides here. I awit your plan.
It seems that you have lots of inside knowledge here so don;t you please come forward with a plan that would work for both sides here. I awit your plan.
First-Due [Member] writes:
Also where is Yarmouth Taxpayer, I would like to know where you got these facts based on contractual talks between the FD and Town.
Common Sense [Member] writes:
The automatic call back is senseless in most cases. When one ambulance gets called out there are still 2 fully staffed ammbulances at the other 2 fire stations in town doing nothing. Why not wake one of them up and get them staged in a central part of town so that they can respond if needed.Once staged, I bet they could respond quicker than the 1st ambulance since you would not have to wake them up. Understanding how some of the union mentality works, they would file a grievance because centrally staging an ambulane would cut their nap time and overtime. Wait until they get their requested 24 hour shifts!!!!!!
Our Fire Department does a great job but they have gone over the edge with this rediculous call back issue. A waste of tons of money.
Stop building the new station house. Build one large centrally located building and sell the other properties to help fund the building. We willsave maintenance,utilities,need much less staffing and will cost the tax payer much less or it will shift funds to other town departments that need more resources. Why this has not been done baffles me
Our Fire Department does a great job but they have gone over the edge with this rediculous call back issue. A waste of tons of money.
Stop building the new station house. Build one large centrally located building and sell the other properties to help fund the building. We willsave maintenance,utilities,need much less staffing and will cost the tax payer much less or it will shift funds to other town departments that need more resources. Why this has not been done baffles me
Robertn [Member] writes:
The bottom line is there are many excellent fire based, private and hospital based EMS services. They all have to generate sufficient revenue to cover operating expenses. Some obtain the funds from insurance companies while others use the taxpayers as their source of revenue.
It is real easy to determine what system is the least expensive for a particular area. First, the area must decide the performance metrics and service level desired. Second, seek proposals asking the respondents to identify the average cost per Response and cost per transport from all interested parties. The Fire Department should have to submit a proposal as well.
It becomes a pure economic decision as everyone would be bidding on the same requirements.
Those who are afraid to follow this process ussually can not compete on price and service level and attempt to make the discussion emotional.
It is real easy to determine what system is the least expensive for a particular area. First, the area must decide the performance metrics and service level desired. Second, seek proposals asking the respondents to identify the average cost per Response and cost per transport from all interested parties. The Fire Department should have to submit a proposal as well.
It becomes a pure economic decision as everyone would be bidding on the same requirements.
Those who are afraid to follow this process ussually can not compete on price and service level and attempt to make the discussion emotional.
redwords [Member] writes:
all you need to know is that when you pick up the phone, you will have someone there when you need them the most. the solution to all this whining is DONT CALL FOR SERVICES! Take care of it yourselves! 24/7 all year round you will get help. talk about priceless! can some of those damn non profitable golf coarses in town, ever look into how much they cost the town to keep operating? where in the red there folks! these pages are full of whinning! move off cape where your tax dollar gets you nothing! Whine, Whine , Whine the cape cod tradition lives on! as for me I willbust my hump and pay my taxes to ave everything the way it is, and oh by the way how about that afordable housing my daughter, and son in law who grew up in yarmouth applied for, it went to some off cape people who own 2 BMW's if you want a call fire department like it was 40 years ago keep whining, and when your houses and cars,and whatever are in ashes maybe you will think, hey maybe it would of been worth it, but you have not had that type of loss yet because your the invincible people!all I hear is WHAAAA! WHAAAA!
wahhmbulance [Member] writes:
Common sense, you obviously have none. Until you understand how a fire department operates, you need to keep your comments to yourself.
Tell us how you REALLY feel redwords!! :-)
Tell us how you REALLY feel redwords!! :-)
Common Sense [Member] writes:
Whammbulane, I know that you feel that stupid tax payers have no idea how a fire department works. You are so wrong! We hire good people, train and equip them well and expect them to arrive timely. It is clear that there are some hard core union Yarmouth Fire Departmet members that want overtime for everything. Most call back is unnnecessary and wasteful when you have 2 ambulance crews already working on straight time who are probably sleeping or playing Play Station while you call back 3 people every time one ambulance goes out.
Why don't you publish your contract??? The answer is you do not want the stupid tax payer to see some of great benefits that are deserved while at the same time you stick it to the town with made up overtime. You want 24 hour shifts so you can work your full time jobs that have nothing to do with the Fire Department. Imagine having a Paramedic come to help you who has been working for 23 straight hours???
One central Fire Deprtment Building will reduce costs,personnel,and increase response time.
Why don't you publish your contract??? The answer is you do not want the stupid tax payer to see some of great benefits that are deserved while at the same time you stick it to the town with made up overtime. You want 24 hour shifts so you can work your full time jobs that have nothing to do with the Fire Department. Imagine having a Paramedic come to help you who has been working for 23 straight hours???
One central Fire Deprtment Building will reduce costs,personnel,and increase response time.
wahhmbulance [Member] writes:
"that stupid tax payers have no idea how a fire department" No, I certainly don't think taxpayers are stupid. But if you state that they should just stick 1 station in the center of town and eliminate callback, then you really have no idea how a fire department works.
"Imagine having a Paramedic come to help you who has been working for 23 straight hours?" I do it all the time. So don't doctors. Besides, all we paramedics do is sleep and play PlayStation, so what does it matter how long we work?
"You want 24 hour shifts so you can work your full time jobs that have nothing to do with the Fire Department." What full time jobs? We get paid so well at the FD with all our "Made up overtime," we don't need to work.
And I don't work in Yarmouth, either.
"Imagine having a Paramedic come to help you who has been working for 23 straight hours?" I do it all the time. So don't doctors. Besides, all we paramedics do is sleep and play PlayStation, so what does it matter how long we work?
"You want 24 hour shifts so you can work your full time jobs that have nothing to do with the Fire Department." What full time jobs? We get paid so well at the FD with all our "Made up overtime," we don't need to work.
And I don't work in Yarmouth, either.
wahhmbulance [Member] writes:
"One central Fire Deprtment Building will reduce costs,personnel,and increase response" And what happens when those personnel are tied up on calls? Do you know how long it takes to respond from a "central station" to the outlying boundaries of the town? You can't just stick 1 station in the middle and hope for the best. Look at Brewster, we're on 6A "centrally located" and it still takes us 7-10 minutes to get to some areas of town.
redwords [Member] writes:
so you dont like the fact that demand for services creates the overtime needed? is that it? PS I know how all the towns departments run, jack ass!
bubslola [Member] writes:
First off, everyone take it down a notch, please :) I understand everyone wants less taxes but we are talking about a job in which minuets count.
I think everyone should put themselves in the position of being in a situation were 911 is needed or a loved one. Will you be thinking of your wallet then?
I think everyone should put themselves in the position of being in a situation were 911 is needed or a loved one. Will you be thinking of your wallet then?
wahhmbulance [Member] writes:
Redwords, who are you talking to? I was referring my comments to "common sense." I agree with what you were saying before.
bubslola [Member] writes:
In with the good air out with the bad ;)
wahhmbulance [Member] writes:
" understand everyone wants less taxes but we are talking about a job in which minuets count"
You're absolutely right, bub's, but people don't understand that. They have the "It won't happen to me" attitude. And they don't realize that just putting one station in the center of town and not having call back or whatever will increase response times.
Again, these aren't scare tactics, it's fact. Minutes really DO count here!
You're absolutely right, bub's, but people don't understand that. They have the "It won't happen to me" attitude. And they don't realize that just putting one station in the center of town and not having call back or whatever will increase response times.
Again, these aren't scare tactics, it's fact. Minutes really DO count here!
wahhmbulance [Member] writes:
"demand for services creates the overtime"
Redwords, it absolutely does. The only way to eliminate the need for overtime is to staff the station/apparatus with more full-time personnel.
Redwords, it absolutely does. The only way to eliminate the need for overtime is to staff the station/apparatus with more full-time personnel.
Dr Know [Member] writes:
How many of you people here remember that a study was done for a central station prior to the Yarmouthport station being rebuilt. Those that do remember aslo will remember the outcry of the citizenry that each village have a station to minimize response times.
bubslola [Member] writes:
Thanks Wahhm...some of the nonunderstanding people are usually the ones who think the next guy will get out of the way when an ambulence is screaming up route 6.
Its sad because it should take a 911 situation to get people to understand that minutes count.
Its sad because it should take a 911 situation to get people to understand that minutes count.
Concerned2 [Member] writes:
One central Fire Deprtment Building will reduce costs,personnel,and increase response time.
WOW Common Sense, just what the FD should Build 1 Central Station so it INCREASES RESPONSE TIME! Gee, I thought the idea was to REDUCE response times to fires and medical calls.
WOW Common Sense, just what the FD should Build 1 Central Station so it INCREASES RESPONSE TIME! Gee, I thought the idea was to REDUCE response times to fires and medical calls.
wahhmbulance [Member] writes:
"Gee, I thought the idea was to REDUCE response times to fires and medical calls."
Not if it's not happening to common sense. I see this all the time.
Maybe the idea is to just bill the townsfolk AFTER services rendered. How's that?
Not if it's not happening to common sense. I see this all the time.
Maybe the idea is to just bill the townsfolk AFTER services rendered. How's that?
bubslola [Member] writes:
"Common Sense" are you sure that's the name you want to go with. Explain how ONE central Fire Department Building will be efficient? How will the costs go down? How will the response time be reduced? Maybe you should enlighten people with your "common sense".
bubslola [Member] writes:
Good point wahhm..that might shake things up a bit
redwords [Member] writes:
wahhmbulance i am sorry i called you a jack ass, i take that back and appologize to all who read it, I misunderstood. sorry again
redwords [Member] writes:
Redwords, it absolutely does. The only way to eliminate the need for overtime is to staff the station/apparatus with more full-time personnel.
yes you are correct, the added firefighters would create a situation where there would be less callbacks and proper coverage, with on duty men/women. the added saleries, cost of insuring those people, would in my opinion make it almost a wash, but would make it so the overtime budget is not exceeded. just my thoughts.
yes you are correct, the added firefighters would create a situation where there would be less callbacks and proper coverage, with on duty men/women. the added saleries, cost of insuring those people, would in my opinion make it almost a wash, but would make it so the overtime budget is not exceeded. just my thoughts.
wahhmbulance [Member] writes:
Redwords, you are most forgiven! :-)
"the added firefighters would create a situation where there would be less callbacks and proper coverage, with on duty men/women. the added saleries, cost of insuring those people, would in my opinion make it almost a wash, but would make it so the overtime budget is not exceeded"
Yes, you are correct. Although I'm not sure of the numbers, it would probably be close to the same. What it also would allow is for chiefs to better plan their budget, if there was less unpredictable overtime.
"the added firefighters would create a situation where there would be less callbacks and proper coverage, with on duty men/women. the added saleries, cost of insuring those people, would in my opinion make it almost a wash, but would make it so the overtime budget is not exceeded"
Yes, you are correct. Although I'm not sure of the numbers, it would probably be close to the same. What it also would allow is for chiefs to better plan their budget, if there was less unpredictable overtime.
wahhmbulance [Member] writes:
Also, more staffing at the station would be safer for the firefighters and the public. It's easier putting out a fire with 4 on an engine, and not just 2 or 3.
Dr Know [Member] writes:
Could anybody comment on what portion of the overtime buget is due to call backs?
wahhmbulance [Member] writes:
It's certainly different for every town. And in some towns, it's not just full time people responding. Some towns have call-personnel which respond (like Brewster), and some of the overtime is shift coverage, too (vacation and sick time, etc.). But I couldn't tell you the numbers here.
Mcfly [Member] writes:
Dr. Know the word around town is that almost all of it is from call backs. Contrary to wahhmbulance from what I hear, the town could cut the OT budget by large amounts without any reduction in coverage by just allowing one of the other two fire stations to cover when one is short. As of now and contrary to common sense they hire guys on overtime, even though there may be 5 guys at another station playing Donkey Kong.
redwords [Member] writes:
Mcfly- where in the world is this donkey kong mentallity coming into play here? yarmouth is the bussiest department on the cape, I am not sure there is time for donkey kong. looking at the runs that are done, around 6 thousand, that doesnt leave much time for nintendo.
wahhmbulance [Member] writes:
So Mcfly, what happens when staffing from one station moves to another? Who covers the now empty station? In Yarmouth, there's only 2 or 3 firefighters covering stations 2 & 3. So the only 2 people covering station 2 should leave their station empty to go backfill another station? THat's plain silly.
And no, not all of the overtime is callback. A lot (if not most) of it is vacation time and sick time, etc. that gets covered.
And no, not all of the overtime is callback. A lot (if not most) of it is vacation time and sick time, etc. that gets covered.
Common Sense [Member] writes:
The men and women of the Yarmouth Fire department are good peolpe well trained, well equipped and very well paid.However they have developed a sense of entitlement and use their good service to hoodwink the citizens of Yarmouth into thinking they will all die if they don't make overtime. The call back issue in MOST cases is rediculous. There are Police who get to calls usually before an ambulance and as far as I know they have defribulators and Fisrt aid and CPR training. You call back off duty firefighters from their homes which will take about 10-15 minutes just to get them to the staion house and once they are there they will take the average response time to respond to a call without an ambulance. Then you call an ambulane form one of the other 2 fully staffed fire stations to assist. Common Sense says it is a waste to call back firefighters when 2 fully staffed and hopefully awake, fire stations can respond almost as quickly and you will also have police responding as they normally do in emergencies.I again say a One Central Fire Station will stop wasted callbacks.
redwords [Member] writes:
you all have it figuered out! I cant imagine why no one has not consulted with the blog people years ago! we all made cape cod a big city place to live in and brought all it's woes here, so deal with it! I have to so why dont you, or you could move to boston, or some other town where your taxes are doubled or trippled and get te same or less services. hey go wake up some of those fire men tonight for a blood pressure check, bet you they wont answer the door because it is cold out and they are too cozy in bed! guess what people THEY ARE YOUR SLAVES! i am done.
Common Sense [Member] writes:
Just because the town is managed fairly well and the tax rate is fairly low does not give redwords and whambulance the the other YFD members the right to bogusly pad their overtime based on biased studies and scare tactics. Your own people have boasted how they play video games, file endless grievances, sleep (contratually) and conduct other endevours while working. Can you post the grievances you have been filing or your contract? Probably too embarassed to and will come up with some bogus reason why you can't.
You are paid to be professional. Now act like professionals instead of greedy whiners. You will win a lot of support if you do. The public needs you to be there and ready without sticking it to us. I support you but clean up your act.
You are paid to be professional. Now act like professionals instead of greedy whiners. You will win a lot of support if you do. The public needs you to be there and ready without sticking it to us. I support you but clean up your act.
blankety [Member] writes:
Common sense (or the death of) just doesn't seem to get it. There is no sense of entitlement of overtime. It is a simple fact, either the overtime is paid out to maintain a level of service, or that level of service will drop.
It requires x numbers of firefighters to handle the calls for service. When you reach a level of 6000 calls, you either have to have that many firefighters on duty, or you must hire firefighters back at overtime to cover the gap.
And one central fire station? Let me ask you "common sense", how long does it take for biological (brain) death to occure when you heart stops beating? According to the American Heart Association it is about 4 to 6 minutes. One Central Sation can get everywhere in Yarmouth in 4 to 6 minutes.
Another question. Do you know what flashover is? Do you know how long it takes to occur? Flashover (simplified) is when the entire room, contents and all, reach ignition and burst into flames. According to the NFPA it only takes about 3 minutes for that to happen.
So build your central fire station "common sense".......
It requires x numbers of firefighters to handle the calls for service. When you reach a level of 6000 calls, you either have to have that many firefighters on duty, or you must hire firefighters back at overtime to cover the gap.
And one central fire station? Let me ask you "common sense", how long does it take for biological (brain) death to occure when you heart stops beating? According to the American Heart Association it is about 4 to 6 minutes. One Central Sation can get everywhere in Yarmouth in 4 to 6 minutes.
Another question. Do you know what flashover is? Do you know how long it takes to occur? Flashover (simplified) is when the entire room, contents and all, reach ignition and burst into flames. According to the NFPA it only takes about 3 minutes for that to happen.
So build your central fire station "common sense".......
TedEMTP [Member] writes:
You're crazy if you go with a private ambulance company. I am a Paramedic with 12 years experience. I work for neither a private nor a fire department, but if there were an emergency in my family I know there's no way in hell I'd want a Paramedic from a private walking through the door. While there are occasionally excellent Paramedics at these services, most are mediocre at best and a public health threat at worst. While I don't think fire departments give great service either, at least their members are invested in the community and not simply low-earning hourly employees bouncing from private service to private service.
The best thing would be to regionalize the advanced life support service and have it based out of Cape Cod Hospital. Let the fire departments perform at the basic life support level and intercept with Paramedics in specialized vehicles. There would be fewer Paramedics who see enough patients to keep up their competencies in the life-saving skills. Studies have proven that too many Paramedics in a given area actually have a negative effect on the public health.
The best thing would be to regionalize the advanced life support service and have it based out of Cape Cod Hospital. Let the fire departments perform at the basic life support level and intercept with Paramedics in specialized vehicles. There would be fewer Paramedics who see enough patients to keep up their competencies in the life-saving skills. Studies have proven that too many Paramedics in a given area actually have a negative effect on the public health.
Common Sense [Member] writes:
I think Yarmouth Firefighters & paramedics perform very well. There is no need for privatization.
Blancety is using the typical scare tactics unions use to protect their call back overtime. The police get the calls first and will be on scene before paramedics & firefighters start their engines.
One central fire departmetn will reduce the need for all the brass, save utilities, put all employees under one roof and the call backs would be reduced to only those that are necessary. Response would be imporoved in some instances and incresed in others. The bottom line is that the gig is up. You have been exposed and need to make some adjustments and improve your department. You will always be paid well and have a secure job. Stop taking advantage of you good standing.
Blancety is using the typical scare tactics unions use to protect their call back overtime. The police get the calls first and will be on scene before paramedics & firefighters start their engines.
One central fire departmetn will reduce the need for all the brass, save utilities, put all employees under one roof and the call backs would be reduced to only those that are necessary. Response would be imporoved in some instances and incresed in others. The bottom line is that the gig is up. You have been exposed and need to make some adjustments and improve your department. You will always be paid well and have a secure job. Stop taking advantage of you good standing.
oh the huge manatee! [Member] writes:
It is obvious to me that the situation doesn't make sense. A situation where overtime pay is literally "out of control" should be viewed as a massive "PROBLEM" that needs to be FIXED. I'm sure if a similar situation existed in a private business, it would either fix it or go out of business. Firefighters in this part of the country are paid like royalty. It doesn't make sense and isn't required to get the same service.
blankety [Member] writes:
The Police do not always respond to Medical calls Uncommonsense, and they just added more Patrolmen why, because they were not busy enough. It is simple math, no tactics. The calls (over 6000 at this point) need to be answered. You either have to have the manpower on duty to do it, or hire them back at overtime to fill in. Most Towns choose OT over hiring becuase it is cheaper. You don't pay benefits to your overtime account.
blankety [Member] writes:
And Manatee....
Royalty? Are you serious? Most can't afford to buy a house around here on there base pay. They make up the difference by working seconds jobs or OT. Along with their wives working. Makes them no different than everyone else on Cape Cod. Doing what they can do to survive. The next time you read that annual report and you see what a Firefighter made, subtract his base and stipends and see what the OT amount is. Then figure out how many extra hours he worked to get there.
Royalty? Are you serious? Most can't afford to buy a house around here on there base pay. They make up the difference by working seconds jobs or OT. Along with their wives working. Makes them no different than everyone else on Cape Cod. Doing what they can do to survive. The next time you read that annual report and you see what a Firefighter made, subtract his base and stipends and see what the OT amount is. Then figure out how many extra hours he worked to get there.
bubslola [Member] writes:
To add to blancety..police also aren't required to answer a typical medical call. If you call from a private home for an ambulance the police aren't always going to show up so if you use Common Sense's (NOT)logic most of the people calling for help will either be brain dead or just dead because of response time. I ask you "Common Sense" please use it.
wahhmbulance [Member] writes:
Blancety and bub's, are you two firefighters or medics?
I am, so people might think my opinion is predjudiced. Because you two are making sense. Unlike Not-so-common-sense. :-)
I am, so people might think my opinion is predjudiced. Because you two are making sense. Unlike Not-so-common-sense. :-)
Common Sense [Member] writes:
Whambulance, Buba, & Blancety - You are probably great peolple who love jobs. You are well paid, have an unbelivable work schedule and other benfits that you deserve. Again you see no sense in having 2 fully staffed ambulance units stay tucked in their beds & firehouses while you call out 3 other firefighters out to backfill the vacant station. You are so worried about the padded overtime that you can not make sense of it. I found out that all 911 calls go to the police first and they routinely respond to all emergency calls. I also found out that more than half of your calls are of a minor nature and have nothing to do with fires or ambulance runs. One of your firefighters told me today that you do have video games that are often played in the station house and you also get to use the computer for games and recreation. This even takes place while you are calling back firefighters on overtime to cover vacant firehouse. If this is true it makes perfect sense to have the 2 idle station houses on stanby instead of wasting money on call backs that take 15 -20 minutes to fill anyway.
blankety [Member] writes:
Commonsense, assumption can be a dangerous thing. I see a problem with having someone with an emergency wait 5 or 6 extra minutes for an ambulance or engine to respond from another station. And while the Police may respond if they are available, they do not have the same training nor the ability to extinguish a house fire.
I work in a Community that routinely leaves a station unmanned when the ambulance is out. Those taxpayers in that part of Town are getting a lesser level of service, yet they pay the same Tax dollars as everyone else.
As for well paid and unbelievable work schedule. I make a decent living and could not afford to live here without working a second job or overtime. I work 48 hours every 8 day which averages to 42 hours a week. My family wishes I was home more. It is the life I choose, not complaining.
Remember too that the Fire Department does not create the calls, they just respond. And what may seem minor to you, may be the most important thing to the person asking for help.
I work in a Community that routinely leaves a station unmanned when the ambulance is out. Those taxpayers in that part of Town are getting a lesser level of service, yet they pay the same Tax dollars as everyone else.
As for well paid and unbelievable work schedule. I make a decent living and could not afford to live here without working a second job or overtime. I work 48 hours every 8 day which averages to 42 hours a week. My family wishes I was home more. It is the life I choose, not complaining.
Remember too that the Fire Department does not create the calls, they just respond. And what may seem minor to you, may be the most important thing to the person asking for help.
rocky1699 [Member] writes:
I have had the chance to work on the yfd as a call ff/emt saddly I had to stop because I moved away. I have worked for the private side as well and trust me that is not the way to go. I have worked for a few that have been talked about. what they did not tell you is the town would have several diffrent people working. some people right out of school. hello thats what people need guys and girls that dont know what there doing or the group that cant read a map and go to the wrong house well thats good to i bet.try looking these private co. up and see how many lawsuits are pennding for response time or pushing the wrong drug that resulted in the death of someones loved one. I have no affiliation with yfd but the people in town should realize that you have the best of the best. I dont see any one writting that has had a family member come home from the hospital after one of these guys saved a life. do all your homework before you start talking. remember you get what you pay for.
jda0716 [Member] writes:
After reading some of the comments,I am reminded of that saying that compares opinions to a certain part of the human body.(Everyone has one and they usually stink).
Please! Before you decide on how you think the most important public service should be provided, get the fact correct!
Before you complain about a Fire Based Ambulance system. Consider this, the annual revenue to the town of Yarmouth from ambulance receipts exceeds over 1 MILLION DOLLARS/year. Let me write that again 1 Million dollars/yr.Do you want to give that income to a private ambulance company?What do you think the tax rate would be without that income?
I not sure but I don't think the Overtime costs would decrease that much because the Fire Dept would still have to respond and provide emergency care until the private ambulance arrives and transports the patient to the hospital, and in some cases the firefighters may have to go to the hospital to supplement the private ambulance's staff. I only have 100 characters left and more to say. I will continue in another column. more to come
Please! Before you decide on how you think the most important public service should be provided, get the fact correct!
Before you complain about a Fire Based Ambulance system. Consider this, the annual revenue to the town of Yarmouth from ambulance receipts exceeds over 1 MILLION DOLLARS/year. Let me write that again 1 Million dollars/yr.Do you want to give that income to a private ambulance company?What do you think the tax rate would be without that income?
I not sure but I don't think the Overtime costs would decrease that much because the Fire Dept would still have to respond and provide emergency care until the private ambulance arrives and transports the patient to the hospital, and in some cases the firefighters may have to go to the hospital to supplement the private ambulance's staff. I only have 100 characters left and more to say. I will continue in another column. more to come
jda0716 [Member] writes:
I'm back. This is required under the Commonwealth of Ma. Laws & regulations. please take a moment toread them.
I'd also like to give you a little history lesson too. Back in the late 70's Cape town investigated the possibilities of a private ambulance taking over the emergency care for the whole Cape. Not only did the Towns find it to be a bad idea, so did the private ambulances. They said it was cost prohibitive to provide paramedic level care 24 hours/7 days.
Please understand that Cape Cod firefighters provide a dual role to the community. Not only are they trained as firefighters providing protection for all fire related emergencies. But they also cross trainedas EMTs and Paramedics providingemergency medical care and transport to the hospital.
A comment made by someone in one of the columns stated that private ambulances provide emergency care in communities on the south shore and down to Plymouth.
This is somewhat true but not the whole story. I'm running out of space again please follow along in column three.
I'd also like to give you a little history lesson too. Back in the late 70's Cape town investigated the possibilities of a private ambulance taking over the emergency care for the whole Cape. Not only did the Towns find it to be a bad idea, so did the private ambulances. They said it was cost prohibitive to provide paramedic level care 24 hours/7 days.
Please understand that Cape Cod firefighters provide a dual role to the community. Not only are they trained as firefighters providing protection for all fire related emergencies. But they also cross trainedas EMTs and Paramedics providingemergency medical care and transport to the hospital.
A comment made by someone in one of the columns stated that private ambulances provide emergency care in communities on the south shore and down to Plymouth.
This is somewhat true but not the whole story. I'm running out of space again please follow along in column three.
jda0716 [Member] writes:
column 3.
Over the past few years the fire service has been taking over the ambulance from the privates because of a couple of reasons.1. They have found that they can provide a better level of care at the paramedic level compared to some of the privates that could only provide care at the basic level. The towns could make a profit by billing the Insurance Companies for the service.
2. Most private companies are starting to get away from the emergency street work and would rather do the inter-facility transfers. Again a business trying to make profit.
Look what happened to AMR last month when the State Ambulance Inspectors pulled a good portion of their Ambulances off the road for major violations and non-compliance to the regulations. A comment by an AMR employee was " they were trying to save a buck".
I'm not saying all private ambulances are like that. Cape Cod ambulance provides an excellent service throughout the Cape & Islands and I believe they have a great working relationship with all the Cape fire depts. I'm out of space again please follow on to column 4. thank you
Over the past few years the fire service has been taking over the ambulance from the privates because of a couple of reasons.1. They have found that they can provide a better level of care at the paramedic level compared to some of the privates that could only provide care at the basic level. The towns could make a profit by billing the Insurance Companies for the service.
2. Most private companies are starting to get away from the emergency street work and would rather do the inter-facility transfers. Again a business trying to make profit.
Look what happened to AMR last month when the State Ambulance Inspectors pulled a good portion of their Ambulances off the road for major violations and non-compliance to the regulations. A comment by an AMR employee was " they were trying to save a buck".
I'm not saying all private ambulances are like that. Cape Cod ambulance provides an excellent service throughout the Cape & Islands and I believe they have a great working relationship with all the Cape fire depts. I'm out of space again please follow on to column 4. thank you
jda0716 [Member] writes:
Number 4.
Cape Cod Ambulance concentrates their efforts on the non-emergency and inter-facility transfers. To the best of my knowledge they don't want to do any emergency street work.
In closing, I think it's wonderful that people have a way to make comments or suggestions. But please make your decisions on the facts and not opinions.
Just one last thing. Boston EMS is a division of the City of Boston's Health and Hospital not the dept of public health.
Thank you.
Cape Cod Ambulance concentrates their efforts on the non-emergency and inter-facility transfers. To the best of my knowledge they don't want to do any emergency street work.
In closing, I think it's wonderful that people have a way to make comments or suggestions. But please make your decisions on the facts and not opinions.
Just one last thing. Boston EMS is a division of the City of Boston's Health and Hospital not the dept of public health.
Thank you.
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As been before by WAH, which makes sense, how would a for Profit Ambulance Co. make a profit just providing the Town of Yarmouth with EMS with only 1 hospital to transport to? Where are you gonna housed them? Is the town gonna received the over 1 millions? I highly doubt it. How many Ambulanes will there be made available for Yarmouth?