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ATF Head Sullivan Reacts to O’Keefe Controversy
08/09/07 · 4:22 pm :: posted by Jeff
Romeo, Romeo, where for art thou, Romeo?
You have to wonder when the "old media" will tackle this icky problem
By Jeff Blanchard
The phone rang and the caller ID said Dist of Columbi.
In that split second it took to pick the thing up, the only thought that raced through my mind was this was finally the call-back I’d been expecting from Senator Kennedy.
I had left a message about two years ago asking whether he was buddies with any of the guys involved in the Valhalla gun-running episode of 1984, the one where the Boston mob tried to smuggle 7 tons of arms to the IRA...without success.
The acting director of the ATF & United States Attorney in Boston until a replacement can be hired, Michael J. Sullivan was calling to clarify the Michael O’Keefe-for-US Attorney-part of the O’Keefe-Gryboski story."Hello!" I said.
"Hi, this is Michael Sullivan," he said. Oh, my. This could be better.
A former Massachusetts district attorney who is now the acting director of the ATF (bureau of alcohol, tobacco, firearms and explosives) and the United States Attorney in Boston until a replacement can be hired, Michael J. Sullivan was calling to clarify the Michael O’Keefe-for-US Attorney-part of the O’Keefe-Gryboski story.
BO’Keefe-Gryboski back story
The O’Keefe-Gryboski story (see entry beneath this one), in a nutshell, is that Cape and Islands District Attorney Michael D. O’Keefe is conducting a grand jury investigation into Ann Gryboski’s killing of her husband and some of her neighbors wonder whether that is right since the DA and the doctor used to live about 10 houses apart in the same neighborhood and apparently some of these neighbors feel the two may know each other beyond the courthouse.
Sullivan said at the outset that he was not familiar with the Gryboski case, in which Dr. Ann Gryboski allegedly killed her husband, Patrick Lancaster, on Easter Sunday in their Barnstable home.
The reason he called back was to address the possibility that O’Keefe could become Sullivan's replacement...The reason I asked at all was in the hopes that he knew what the next step would be, inasmuch as O’Keefe so far has refused to confront (admit, deny or otherwise comment on) the suggestion that he and Gryboski were friends before the murder.
The reason he called back was to address the possibility that O’Keefe could become Sullivan’s replacement, as Sullivan’s been wearing two hats since President Bush made him head of the ATF several months ago.
Sullivan said he has "no idea" about the Gryboski and O’Keefe business, "but I do know Michael O’Keefe very well, and I know he would make an exceptional Unites States Attorney."
"I also know that Michael is professionally challenged and satisfied by his work on the Cape..."
- US Attorney Sullivan"However," Sullivan continued, "I also know that Michael is professionally challenged and satisfied by his work on the Cape, and I’m not aware of any interest on his part in the US Attorney’s job."
So there you have it. Rumors of Michael O’Keefe’s political ambitions are greatly exaggerated, straight from the acting director of the ATF, a billion-dollar-a-year crime-fighting unit of the US Department of Justice, with 5,000 employees, including almost 2,500 ATF agents.
That Sullivan deals with lawyers, reporters and bombs all the time was apparent in his delivery -- quick but clear, considered, concise, business-like. I didn’t ask, but he sounded as if he were waiting for a plane somewhere.
He knew what he was going to say and he said it without much prompting. Once he had made his point, he asked whether I had any further questions, I said no thanks and that was it, about two minutes.
Thus, the take-away: O’Keefe is a fine man, with a fine job and no known interest in becoming the next US Attorney in Boston, although if he did have an interest, he’d be a good one, and who knows anything about this murder stuff.
Nothing about the case on the DA’s websiteUnfortunately, that still leaves the tabula rosa. No luck with Michael Sullivan. No luck with O’Keefe himself. And nothing about the case on the DA’s website.
Not a word. You can read all about how Paul Nolin (acting alone, meaning there were no church superiors involved) killed Jonathan Wessner, how he stabbed him and buried him under rocks on the beach. That’s all there, but nothing on Ann Gryboski, who confessed to shooting her husband to death and remains free on bail while a grand jury considers the facts of the case.
The grand jury will conclude that Ann Gryboski was battered by Patrick Lancaster (those bruises were real) and acting in self-defense in fear for her life and the lives of others and thus innocent of any sort of murder charges.At this point, without a major announcement from someone as yet unknown, the course of justice in the case has assumed an air of inevitability — inevitable that at some point in the not-too-distant future the grand jury will conclude that Ann Gryboski was battered by Patrick Lancaster (those bruises were real) and acting in self-defense in fear for her life and the lives of others and thus innocent of any sort of murder charges.
That’s what has to happen. Both sides have indicated their agreement.
So unless for some reason the case were moved to another jurisdiction (it's usually Plymouth, where Sullivan used to be the DA), to avoid the appearance of partial justice based on several of the neighbors’ closely-held beliefs that there was some kind of relationship between Gryboski and O’Keefe...
...no other scenario is available.
Any other outcome short of total freedom would necessarily be a shock, because that would imply that things did not happen exactly as they have already been described in the current legal limbo.
Gryboski’s side and O’Keefe’s side agree completely or she wouldn’t be walking around a free woman today. Why the grand jury at all, then, is the mystery.
78 comments
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08/09/07 @ 6:47 pm
bittersweet [Member] writes:
I just hope they remember this the next time a woman files a restraining order against an abuser.....there are many woman and children who are abused around here, just as the Doctor was (allegedly). I hope they receive the same kind of justice that she did should they shoot their abusers in self-defense.
[ Show all comments by this user ]
Jack Coleman [Member] writes:
Some of Gryboski's neighbors have also "apparently" claimed that police did not come to their homes to ask them any questions about Lancaster's death. Oddly, there is no mention of this alleged claim in either of Blanchard's stories.
bittersweet [Member] writes:
It's odd that the police wouldn't question the neighbors!!! In fact, it's more than odd, it's down-right unusual, isn't it? So what is this, another case solved before a trial? Sorry, but if this was a poor welfare mom who had shot her boyfriend, I think there would be a whole different set of decisions being made.
Equal justice under the law?.... Where's the punch-line?
Equal justice under the law?.... Where's the punch-line?
Jack Coleman [Member] writes:
Assuming it's true, bittersweet, which I doubt. I worded it the way I did to echo Blanchard's line in the story that "apparently" some neighbors believe O'Keefe and Gryboski "may know each other beyond the courthouse." Do the neighbors believe that or not, and if so, on what basis - O'Keefe and Gryboski's proximity as former neighbors? How many people reading this know their neighbors 10 houses away?
bittersweet [Member] writes:
I don't know, but the point is, how many of us are District Attorneys and chief law-enforcement officials of the state? That gives it a whole new meaning, and a whole lot more importance. I might know someone who is accused of a crime, but I'm not going to be making any legal decisions affecting that person's fate!!!
Jack Coleman [Member] writes:
"That gives it a whole new meaning" - gives what a whole new meaning, bittersweet?
crusader [Member] writes:
"However," Sullivan continued, "I also know that Michael is professionally challenged and satisfied by his work on the Cape, and I’m not aware of any interest on his part in the US Attorney’s job."--MS
Professionally challenged? Can he be more specific? Is he trying to tell us the DA has too much of a load of cases to work on or does it mean something else?
And who is spreading the rumors now? MS has no knowledge of MO wanting the U.S. Attorney's position? Wouldn't he know if he was?
"who knows anything about this murder stuff."--so by this statement are you implying that MS didn't know about the murder, or about MO and AG knowing/not knowing one another? You'd have to be living under a rock not to know this story if you live in the region.
Professionally challenged? Can he be more specific? Is he trying to tell us the DA has too much of a load of cases to work on or does it mean something else?
And who is spreading the rumors now? MS has no knowledge of MO wanting the U.S. Attorney's position? Wouldn't he know if he was?
"who knows anything about this murder stuff."--so by this statement are you implying that MS didn't know about the murder, or about MO and AG knowing/not knowing one another? You'd have to be living under a rock not to know this story if you live in the region.
bittersweet [Member] writes:
MS is also a practitioner of the method used by Bush and the politicians in Washington; "Plausible Deniability"
JC:The "new meaning" refers to your linking Jeff Blanchard to a rumor vs linking O'Keefe to one. It WOULD be important if Blanchard had been in the house the day of the shooting and then was reporting on it. It might "color" his views. Same way that O'Keefe being friends with a suspect might "color" his ability to be a fair and impartial adjudicator. (wow bittersweet...big words today!)
JC:The "new meaning" refers to your linking Jeff Blanchard to a rumor vs linking O'Keefe to one. It WOULD be important if Blanchard had been in the house the day of the shooting and then was reporting on it. It might "color" his views. Same way that O'Keefe being friends with a suspect might "color" his ability to be a fair and impartial adjudicator. (wow bittersweet...big words today!)
capewatchdog [Member] writes:
"The shadow knows" ! MS is a very well groomed when it comes to legal, and political matters. Perception often times becomes reality, whether its from a legal or political point of view. "Politically Challenged", I guess. MS just confirmed, in and carefully worded political way, if the Feds were considering MO for US Attorney, they no longer are....Does this mean its getting closer to sticking the fork in MO ? It certainly is reflective of, Now is the time for all good men to come to the aid of thier parties ! Although, thoughts of the Humpty Dumpty rhyme make equally as much sense....
Peter Kenney [Member] writes:
AMATEURS! Dr. Grybowski admitted shooting her husband; a grand jury has been empanelled to determine what charges, if any, should be issued. It is that simple. Nowhere in this story is there even a hint of:
1. Anyone having seen O'Keefe and the Dr. together at any time in any place under any circumstances.
2. Anyone having seen anything supsicious in the neighborhood at the time of the shooting...the fact that the Barnstable P.D. did not canvas the neighborhood probably means that the evidence at the scene and the Dr.'s admission tell the story. No neighbors have volunteered darker events.
3. The article does not quote how the B.P.D. answered when asked why no such canvas occured...were they asked?
4. We are not told the results of a similar inquiry from private security at the Ridge Club.Were they asked?
5. Were Grybowski's co-workers interviewed?
Where is the proof that O'Keeke has committed a breach of ethics? Facts would help.
What Sullivan has to do with this completely eludes my feable brain.
1. Anyone having seen O'Keefe and the Dr. together at any time in any place under any circumstances.
2. Anyone having seen anything supsicious in the neighborhood at the time of the shooting...the fact that the Barnstable P.D. did not canvas the neighborhood probably means that the evidence at the scene and the Dr.'s admission tell the story. No neighbors have volunteered darker events.
3. The article does not quote how the B.P.D. answered when asked why no such canvas occured...were they asked?
4. We are not told the results of a similar inquiry from private security at the Ridge Club.Were they asked?
5. Were Grybowski's co-workers interviewed?
Where is the proof that O'Keeke has committed a breach of ethics? Facts would help.
What Sullivan has to do with this completely eludes my feable brain.
capewatchdog [Member] writes:
Peter, very insightful questions. I really appreciate the caliber of your questions, very intelligent and enjoyable. Maybe this will help with your questions: #1 -I'll give you only one source here, Check with Joe at the Barley Neck Inn. #2 - Local Police Departments are not allowed to conduct homicide investigations, they come under the jurisdicition of the District Attorney's Office. #3 -Call CPAC of the MSP and ask them. #4 - That is a great question! Do you work there? #5 - Yes.
Question of the day: What does the District Attorney and the Cape Cod Times have in common?
Answer: It appears they may both be for sale!
Question of the day: What does the District Attorney and the Cape Cod Times have in common?
Answer: It appears they may both be for sale!
Solon [Member] writes:
Again, this is unfounded rumor and far astray innuendo aimed against the District Attorney. It is sensationalist stuff and contains no facts--just the kind of suppositions that make good reading at the supermarket checkout line.
Let's get back to the real issue--Dr. Grybowski. No indictment will be brought by the grand jury because they will rule that, indeed, she was an abused wife and acted in self-defense.
And no lascivious evidence will emerge about any relationship between her and the DA. And getting back to Maria Flook's book, remember, it was HER book, not yours, not mine, and not the DA's.
She's a good writer and knows how to sell a book.
You're a good writer, too, Jeff, but facts would be more meaningful to some of us. Unless you're pandering to the crowd that walks around with aluminum caps on their heads to protect them from death rays emitted by PAVE PAWS and Dick Cheney.
Let's get back to the real issue--Dr. Grybowski. No indictment will be brought by the grand jury because they will rule that, indeed, she was an abused wife and acted in self-defense.
And no lascivious evidence will emerge about any relationship between her and the DA. And getting back to Maria Flook's book, remember, it was HER book, not yours, not mine, and not the DA's.
She's a good writer and knows how to sell a book.
You're a good writer, too, Jeff, but facts would be more meaningful to some of us. Unless you're pandering to the crowd that walks around with aluminum caps on their heads to protect them from death rays emitted by PAVE PAWS and Dick Cheney.
Jack Coleman [Member] writes:
In response to capewatchdog's last comment - I called Joe at the Barley Neck Inn this morning and he said he would not know Ann Gryboski if he bumped into her. How could Joe possibly have seen O'Keefe and Gryboski together if he has no idea what she looks like?
Opinionator [Member] writes:
You know that all night talk show on WXTK called "Coast to Coast" when people call up who have seen aliens or Sasquatch? That may be where this thread belongs.
Peter Kenney [Member] writes:
Watchdog -
I do not work at the Ridge Club. I doubt the MSP would tell me anything. As for who investigates murders: Yarmouth PD has investigated murders and in fact has run the entire case more than once with predictably excellent results. A murder committed in a particular municipality is certainly under the jurisdiction of the local PD. Larger municipalities operate in-house homicide divisions.
Example: Two men beaten to death in Route 28 motel a few years ago. Not only did YPD run the case, one of its detectives (Det. Chuck Peterson, lead YPD on the case) traveled out of state to follow/interview lead suspect and came back with his man: arrested, tried, convicted, jailed for life.
I do not work at the Ridge Club. I doubt the MSP would tell me anything. As for who investigates murders: Yarmouth PD has investigated murders and in fact has run the entire case more than once with predictably excellent results. A murder committed in a particular municipality is certainly under the jurisdiction of the local PD. Larger municipalities operate in-house homicide divisions.
Example: Two men beaten to death in Route 28 motel a few years ago. Not only did YPD run the case, one of its detectives (Det. Chuck Peterson, lead YPD on the case) traveled out of state to follow/interview lead suspect and came back with his man: arrested, tried, convicted, jailed for life.
bittersweet [Member] writes:
I really can't believe this....since when are you all so cavalier about murder???She admits to killing him, gets a $50,000 bail, goes home, no Grand Jury, just some people deciding that she was abused and had a right to kill him???Huh? Things must have changed an AWFUL lot since my abusive relationship in the 80's. And we better see this kind of treatment applied to all women and children of abuse, cause this is the first time I've ever heard it handled in this way. Or is this the norm now? if so, all I can say is WOW.(and ps: I'm on her side)
crusader [Member] writes:
bittersweet,
The tragedy here is that if in fact she does know the DA, 3000 patients behind her, hospital adm., community leaders, (she's been there since 92'/14yrs) & her class status(how many of us can make 50k bail overnight)doesn't that make this also predudicial? Maybe battered women's syndrome/ temp. insanity plea will work, but yes, will it work for a woman with 3 small children who works at the local donut shop with not a penny to her name? Maybe if CM had an education, was white, with a million dollar bank account he would have never become a suspect. Too bad the DA couldn't respect CW in the same way he does AG. His comments in the Flook book damaged a dead woman't reputation, but what of other reputations? Okay for some but not all--okay. I get it. Flook's book did well because of the story, not her writing. She had other books that failed. She's a nobody just like the rest who are trying to ride on the 5 minutes of fame train. Behind many failed female writer's, there is usually a successful husband who is one.
The tragedy here is that if in fact she does know the DA, 3000 patients behind her, hospital adm., community leaders, (she's been there since 92'/14yrs) & her class status(how many of us can make 50k bail overnight)doesn't that make this also predudicial? Maybe battered women's syndrome/ temp. insanity plea will work, but yes, will it work for a woman with 3 small children who works at the local donut shop with not a penny to her name? Maybe if CM had an education, was white, with a million dollar bank account he would have never become a suspect. Too bad the DA couldn't respect CW in the same way he does AG. His comments in the Flook book damaged a dead woman't reputation, but what of other reputations? Okay for some but not all--okay. I get it. Flook's book did well because of the story, not her writing. She had other books that failed. She's a nobody just like the rest who are trying to ride on the 5 minutes of fame train. Behind many failed female writer's, there is usually a successful husband who is one.
Jack Coleman [Member] writes:
No grand jury, bittersweet? What are you talking about? There most certainly is. And I agree with what Solon wrote that it is unlikely the grand jury will indict Gryboski.
crusader [Member] writes:
If CW fled to Europe, as it was told, the freeloaders would be nobodies. And I wonder the stories CW would have told. She was the gifted writer- articles on Johnny Depp & Raynona Wyder many more & several books she co-wrote. Her writing was above & beyond many in her field. It's obvious she just didn't find the right path in life, & it all when down hill from there.
And Flook would still be writing mediocrity-
Who CHRISTA was sold her books & Christa's story. How much respect can a person have who writes a book detailing her own sister's accounts of child prositution? I can't imagine any family would be pleased. What amazes me the most is how they carry on like it's their god given right to profit & exploit a dead woman in the way they do. That book came out 2 years before the trial, plenty of time to predjudice any future jury, public & media. BG said he would not disparage the victim in court--but it didn't matter, others did it for him. I don't know how they can live with themselves.
And Flook would still be writing mediocrity-
Who CHRISTA was sold her books & Christa's story. How much respect can a person have who writes a book detailing her own sister's accounts of child prositution? I can't imagine any family would be pleased. What amazes me the most is how they carry on like it's their god given right to profit & exploit a dead woman in the way they do. That book came out 2 years before the trial, plenty of time to predjudice any future jury, public & media. BG said he would not disparage the victim in court--but it didn't matter, others did it for him. I don't know how they can live with themselves.
crusader [Member] writes:
I also found out there was another very good writer who was in the running for the Christa story, but did not get chosen. Wonder if there were others? I guess it does pay to have a husband who is well published & tenured at one of the best colleges in Boston & teaches in Ptown. I wonder how many publishing contacts you can get from being in academia? hmmmm....and she gave the impression she was chosen, yes, perhaps, but wonder what led to that selection. Remember people do not always get picked because they are better---it's who they know in that world too. I say Flook was too close to this story & that's what hurt the book, maybe jealousy of CW & her success, unlike MF. The other Cape writer, one with some respect for CW & integrity may have done a better job detailing facts, ethically, responsibly, & presenting CW in a more realistic way. Instead, we get MF own ego grooming along with a DA who should have never shared pre-trial evidence, photos & liebeling CW --he was hired to defend--finding her killer was his prime objective.
bittersweet [Member] writes:
Sorry about that JC....I'm telling you, my mind is mush!
Jack Coleman [Member] writes:
No need to apologize, bittersweet, we all have our moments.
That's odd, capewatchdog seems to have vanished since his "check with Joe at the Barley Neck Inn" false lead was refuted. Go figure.
That's odd, capewatchdog seems to have vanished since his "check with Joe at the Barley Neck Inn" false lead was refuted. Go figure.
capewatchdog [Member] writes:
No, haven't gone anywhere, family day. Oh, that may not be important though! Anyway, it doesn't take much to imagine that Joe wouldn't know her if he bumped into her....He should be careful repeating what he is told in confidence, especially when he repeats it and is overheard! As far as local vs. DA authority over death investigations, I would suggest you carefully examine Chapter 38 Sec 4 of the MGL. By the way, the DA's designee in this section is the MSP.
Good Day !
Other issues to check on.....
Good Day !
Other issues to check on.....
Buzz [Member] writes:
crusader,
"Maybe if CM had an education, was white, with a million dollar bank account he would have never become a suspect."
Except of course, his DNA was found at the murder scene and he said he put the boot to her.
Damn, if he was only white, a respected doctor, was abused by his spouse and took the time to tell the police he was at Christas house around the time of the murder.... damn.... he could have had a V8.
"Maybe if CM had an education, was white, with a million dollar bank account he would have never become a suspect."
Except of course, his DNA was found at the murder scene and he said he put the boot to her.
Damn, if he was only white, a respected doctor, was abused by his spouse and took the time to tell the police he was at Christas house around the time of the murder.... damn.... he could have had a V8.
Jack Coleman [Member] writes:
Ah, family obligations - how admirable, capewatchdog! Especially compared to, oh for example, a bachelor public official's fondness for a well-turned ankle. Thanks for clarifying your most recent misinformation. So now you're saying Joe didn't actually see Gryboski and O'Keefe together, but was, ah, "told" this and "repeats it and is overheard," presumably by you. Then again, maybe someone else overheard/eavesdropped and passed along the tidbit to you, which you dutifully posted in a public forum behind a screen of anonymity. So what it comes down to is - a bartender is told some gossip and responds with, hey, how 'bout that? Wow, pretty amazing stuff.
I'm curious - was the person who told this to Joe drinking at the time of the conversation? Just a hunch.
I'm curious - was the person who told this to Joe drinking at the time of the conversation? Just a hunch.
crusader [Member] writes:
Buzz,
Can you not admit to yourself that CW had consensual sex with CM on Thursday before the weekend she was killed ( Saturday---black van driver spotted at crime scene)& no black man in his right mind would admit to being in that house sleeping with a white woman, especially one who is in a different class bracket, the way he was treated by cops (detained without legal counsel for 6 hrs, no food, or water, told by BG), & btw, MSP could have recorded him if they wanted to, THEY DIDN'T NEED HIS PERMISSION--SO WHAT IS LE HIDING? Maybe afraid CM would say something they didn't want others to hear? What about the DNA of local LE that was not taken, but it's know he had a personal relationship with the victim. Go do your homework before you try & manipulate & distort the facts on this blog. You're only making our arguements atronger by stating ignorant comments. If this injustice does not get corrected, Cape Cod will never live it down. Thank God for places like the "The Peoples Republic of Cambridge". Chris McCowen's CIVIL RIGHTS WERE VIOLATED.
Can you not admit to yourself that CW had consensual sex with CM on Thursday before the weekend she was killed ( Saturday---black van driver spotted at crime scene)& no black man in his right mind would admit to being in that house sleeping with a white woman, especially one who is in a different class bracket, the way he was treated by cops (detained without legal counsel for 6 hrs, no food, or water, told by BG), & btw, MSP could have recorded him if they wanted to, THEY DIDN'T NEED HIS PERMISSION--SO WHAT IS LE HIDING? Maybe afraid CM would say something they didn't want others to hear? What about the DNA of local LE that was not taken, but it's know he had a personal relationship with the victim. Go do your homework before you try & manipulate & distort the facts on this blog. You're only making our arguements atronger by stating ignorant comments. If this injustice does not get corrected, Cape Cod will never live it down. Thank God for places like the "The Peoples Republic of Cambridge". Chris McCowen's CIVIL RIGHTS WERE VIOLATED.
crusader [Member] writes:
Jack,
This guy Joe at the Barley Neck Inn--it's been my experience that locals talk, only amongst themselves,some have talked with me, & what they said was later confirmed as fact. When locals realize that they may be held accountable to what they say (against DA & LE) they quickly zip their lips. Why do you suppose that is? One local told me of a business owner that crossed someone in LE & ended up hurting his business. No surprise. After the CW murder, LE & those who knew who was involved left the Cape never to return. I don't blame locals for staying silent if they have much at stake. It's too bad some have to live in fear of retaliation if they speak out. But in my opinion, that's what is going on. It would be nice if things could change--maybe a regional LE to take the place of town to town political strong holds & may be better with someone who is not so "professionally challenged". The only reason MO is in, is because of DA Rollins tenure of 40 years & their intrenched political machine on Cape Cod.
This guy Joe at the Barley Neck Inn--it's been my experience that locals talk, only amongst themselves,some have talked with me, & what they said was later confirmed as fact. When locals realize that they may be held accountable to what they say (against DA & LE) they quickly zip their lips. Why do you suppose that is? One local told me of a business owner that crossed someone in LE & ended up hurting his business. No surprise. After the CW murder, LE & those who knew who was involved left the Cape never to return. I don't blame locals for staying silent if they have much at stake. It's too bad some have to live in fear of retaliation if they speak out. But in my opinion, that's what is going on. It would be nice if things could change--maybe a regional LE to take the place of town to town political strong holds & may be better with someone who is not so "professionally challenged". The only reason MO is in, is because of DA Rollins tenure of 40 years & their intrenched political machine on Cape Cod.
bittersweet [Member] writes:
Buzz- I know you were addressing crusader, but once again, Christopher Mccowen did not say that. Trooper Mason said he did, but thanks to him not recording the interview, there's no proof of it. Furthermore,the jurors discounted his testimony. They could not believe somone would incriminate themsleves that much.er...is that a polite way of saying "the guys lying?"(Mason) Cause get this--he says Chris said, "My forte is sex, not knocking down doors." My forte is sex? Who says that? sounds like a cheesy dime-store novel. No, that jury said on Dateline that they threw that testimony out. Of course, then they are only left with his dna, which he says is there beacuse they slept together...willingly. Real strong case for murder...NOT!!!
magician [Member] writes:
Unfortuantely it was common Knowledge at the Hospital that The Doctor suffered from Battered Womans Syndrome; nurses at the Hospital constantly noticed her bruises. She was probably anable to attend a support group for batttered women because of her High profile. I can understand why she killed this man. This time her Class and education were against her and she wasnt allowed publicly to admit that she was being battered.Most women who suffer from Battered Womens Syndrome are to embarassed to admit publicly they are being abused. There is still a stigma attached to battered woman that they deserved this. Until the Public is educated that being abused runs across all social and economic lines , women will still be afraid to admit their being battered because its a very shameful place to be in and Not socially acceptable .
Jack Coleman [Member] writes:
Agreed, Crusader, plenty of people love to talk, and it sure looks like that's all there is to this - talk.
Since you and bittersweet keep changing the subject - understandably so - to the McCowen case, a question for both of you about the police interrogation of McCowen: if Mason and Burke put words in McCowen's mouth that he never said - in other words, lied - why do they bring Jeremy Frazier into McCowen's alleged statement when all it does it complicate their case and make a conviction less likely?
Neither one of you answered this several months ago when I wrote a post to the same effect at the Cape Cod Murder blog, and I doubt you'll be able to answer it now.
Since you and bittersweet keep changing the subject - understandably so - to the McCowen case, a question for both of you about the police interrogation of McCowen: if Mason and Burke put words in McCowen's mouth that he never said - in other words, lied - why do they bring Jeremy Frazier into McCowen's alleged statement when all it does it complicate their case and make a conviction less likely?
Neither one of you answered this several months ago when I wrote a post to the same effect at the Cape Cod Murder blog, and I doubt you'll be able to answer it now.
capewatchdog [Member] writes:
Putting words in someones mouth really has a negative influence on ones credibility... I guess thats not a new issue for some is it.....You know what I mean don't you! The spin stops here? I guess not!
crusader [Member] writes:
Not exactly, Jack, the main topic here is the DA, & the cases he is paid to investigate are part of this discussion. He comes under heavy scrutiny on both cases; CW & now AG. I'd also like to know about the lawyer who drowned off Nantucket that his office was suppose to investigate--not a drowning accident.
Your answer to JF is very simple: CM told BG, "JF is the biggest drug dealer on the Cape", & he also told his lawyer that JF killed CW. So of course the MSP are going to go along with bringing JF in. What about his lieing to the GJ about his alibi (being at SM's house, recent Dateline picked up that SM said JF was never at his house, that was before MSP arrived in FL to question him & hold the ecstasy bust over his head, funny how they first let him go, now it made a differnce) & I think those punks went to CW's just to stage a B & E too, but manybe it was someone else who killed CW & they were just there to add to the tained evidence when the cops arrived at the crime scene. Many details have been withheld, I wonder why?
Your answer to JF is very simple: CM told BG, "JF is the biggest drug dealer on the Cape", & he also told his lawyer that JF killed CW. So of course the MSP are going to go along with bringing JF in. What about his lieing to the GJ about his alibi (being at SM's house, recent Dateline picked up that SM said JF was never at his house, that was before MSP arrived in FL to question him & hold the ecstasy bust over his head, funny how they first let him go, now it made a differnce) & I think those punks went to CW's just to stage a B & E too, but manybe it was someone else who killed CW & they were just there to add to the tained evidence when the cops arrived at the crime scene. Many details have been withheld, I wonder why?
bittersweet [Member] writes:
Yeah crusader...I like how he didn't remember anything until the police "reminded" him. Remember,(and this is something I saw last friday on my soap General Hospital)"suborning perjury is a crime." And I'm sick of this whole attitude anyway....we are not the enemy here! We just want justice,as any decent American would.
And we want it for everybody, not just that poor doctor.
And that was a beautiful post magician. So sad, but so true.
And we want it for everybody, not just that poor doctor.
And that was a beautiful post magician. So sad, but so true.
Jack Coleman [Member] writes:
Who is referring to you as "the enemy," bittersweet? You come across as more than a bit overwrought.
Nice try, Crusader, but let me lend you a badly needed hand - the answer is, Mason and Burke are not going to introduce a second suspect at the scene of the murder if they are, as you claim, concocting a false statement from McCowen. In fact, it's the last thing they would do - if they were so inclined, which I doubt - because it would jeopardize the case.
Take a deep breath and think about it - you are alleging that the statement from McCowen is not from him, but is a lie from Mason and Burke. If that were true, logic dictates that it would be a better lie.
The lawyer who "drowned off Nantucket" - lemme guess, it was really Mr. Mustard with a candlestick in the parlor, right?
Nice try, Crusader, but let me lend you a badly needed hand - the answer is, Mason and Burke are not going to introduce a second suspect at the scene of the murder if they are, as you claim, concocting a false statement from McCowen. In fact, it's the last thing they would do - if they were so inclined, which I doubt - because it would jeopardize the case.
Take a deep breath and think about it - you are alleging that the statement from McCowen is not from him, but is a lie from Mason and Burke. If that were true, logic dictates that it would be a better lie.
The lawyer who "drowned off Nantucket" - lemme guess, it was really Mr. Mustard with a candlestick in the parlor, right?
bittersweet [Member] writes:
I am overwrought!!! Trying to reason with people like you is like banging your head against a brick wall!!!!!
Let me be calm, and paint a scenario for you: I am married, and having an affair. I see my lover in the afternoon and have sex with him. That night, my husband finds out,and kills me. By your logic, the lover would have to be arrested for murder because his dna is the one they find. You need more than the presence of dna to prove ANYTHING! And since they had nothing more, it is my opinion that they used character assasination, and false testimony to convict an innocent man. And as that cartoon dog Droopy from Guadalupe used to say,"That makes me mad."
Let me be calm, and paint a scenario for you: I am married, and having an affair. I see my lover in the afternoon and have sex with him. That night, my husband finds out,and kills me. By your logic, the lover would have to be arrested for murder because his dna is the one they find. You need more than the presence of dna to prove ANYTHING! And since they had nothing more, it is my opinion that they used character assasination, and false testimony to convict an innocent man. And as that cartoon dog Droopy from Guadalupe used to say,"That makes me mad."
Jack Coleman [Member] writes:
In other words, bittersweet, no one is referring to you as "the enemy" but it's something you can claim in an effort to bolster a weak argument.
By my understanding of logic, it would be your husband arrested and charged with murder in the scenario you described and, justice willing, convicted of it.
I notice you've given a wide berth to the question about Mason and Burke bringing Frazier into McCowen's statement when it only weakens their case. Perhaps if you stopped banging your head against a wall you'd be able to listen to reason.
By my understanding of logic, it would be your husband arrested and charged with murder in the scenario you described and, justice willing, convicted of it.
I notice you've given a wide berth to the question about Mason and Burke bringing Frazier into McCowen's statement when it only weakens their case. Perhaps if you stopped banging your head against a wall you'd be able to listen to reason.
bittersweet [Member] writes:
Don't you think if McCowen told them Frazier did it, they knew it would also get to a lawer? They did not "bring him in", Christopher McCowen did.
And how exactly do you think they would arrest the husband? He would definately be a suspect, but once they found out it was the lover's dna-- using the logic of the McCowen case-- they would have to hang him for the murder. That's what they did here, isn't it?
Even the DA said,"the mystery lover is not necessarily the killer", but once they found out who it was, it became murder, rape and burglary! You explain that one.
There is no proof of Christopher McCowen even being at the crime scene.
There is a lot of evidence that may have exonerated him that went un-tested.
This was not an effort to find justice, it was an effort to convict someone for this crime. And they got the wrong someone, and too many people know it. (my opinion)
And before you bring up the jury....do I really have to go there?
You think the O.J. jury made the right verdict?
And how exactly do you think they would arrest the husband? He would definately be a suspect, but once they found out it was the lover's dna-- using the logic of the McCowen case-- they would have to hang him for the murder. That's what they did here, isn't it?
Even the DA said,"the mystery lover is not necessarily the killer", but once they found out who it was, it became murder, rape and burglary! You explain that one.
There is no proof of Christopher McCowen even being at the crime scene.
There is a lot of evidence that may have exonerated him that went un-tested.
This was not an effort to find justice, it was an effort to convict someone for this crime. And they got the wrong someone, and too many people know it. (my opinion)
And before you bring up the jury....do I really have to go there?
You think the O.J. jury made the right verdict?
crusader [Member] writes:
JF has an uncle, a former Truro cop, allegedly has ties to MSP, & possibly the state house. DM & DC??????
Mickey Sherman said on CTV, leads one to believe some MSP tactics are questionable. Said something like, "if there is going to be corruption, it would be within MSP."
Maybe you should educate yourself about certain things that go on within the world of Boston to--Cape Cod crime, Jack, afterall you ARE suppose to be the reporter.
The man who drowned off Nantucket was a friend, had 2 pools at his house, no health problems, great athlete--
But I guess you would rather keep the blinders on, while soaking up the sun, pretend Cape Cod is isolated from crime; drugs, murder, etc. It is not. In fact, I think you have it worse then we do, because it's hidden with few services of support for those who need it. You have jobs that do not sustain the average person, & poverty that you refuse to see. There are some youth that must be begging to get off that island hoping for bigger opportunities in life, w/little choices.
Mickey Sherman said on CTV, leads one to believe some MSP tactics are questionable. Said something like, "if there is going to be corruption, it would be within MSP."
Maybe you should educate yourself about certain things that go on within the world of Boston to--Cape Cod crime, Jack, afterall you ARE suppose to be the reporter.
The man who drowned off Nantucket was a friend, had 2 pools at his house, no health problems, great athlete--
But I guess you would rather keep the blinders on, while soaking up the sun, pretend Cape Cod is isolated from crime; drugs, murder, etc. It is not. In fact, I think you have it worse then we do, because it's hidden with few services of support for those who need it. You have jobs that do not sustain the average person, & poverty that you refuse to see. There are some youth that must be begging to get off that island hoping for bigger opportunities in life, w/little choices.
Buzz [Member] writes:
crusader,
Please leave us alone to drown in the sorrows of our disrepair.
We all know that Cape Cod is a hell hole.... but it's our hell hole and we're staying!
Go on with your life, take care of the needs of the place you call utopia..... Somerville. We can't all be as fortunate as you, to pick up stakes and move to the bowels of suburbia.
Please leave us alone to drown in the sorrows of our disrepair.
We all know that Cape Cod is a hell hole.... but it's our hell hole and we're staying!
Go on with your life, take care of the needs of the place you call utopia..... Somerville. We can't all be as fortunate as you, to pick up stakes and move to the bowels of suburbia.
crusader [Member] writes:
Buzz,
At least we have REAL JOBS here, and open-minded people who are accepting of all races. You can pretend all you want, but this trial is the black eye that will not heal for Cape Cod. Like I said before, you don't like what I have to say, take it up with Walter.
At least we have REAL JOBS here, and open-minded people who are accepting of all races. You can pretend all you want, but this trial is the black eye that will not heal for Cape Cod. Like I said before, you don't like what I have to say, take it up with Walter.
bittersweet [Member] writes:
It won't heal till we make it right. And that means letting Chris out of jail.
Jack Coleman [Member] writes:
Dead wrong, bittersweet - Frazier's alleged presence at the murder scene comes into the trial via the testimony of Mason and Burke about McCowen's statement after he was arrested. It could not have come from McCowen because he never testified, remember?
You claim there is "no proof of Christopher McCowen even being at the crime scene" - yeah, aside from a DNA match of his semen and saliva in and on Worthington's body, with the odds of the DNA not coming from McCowen about 182 billion to one. Aside from that, no proof at all.
And the evidence of Frazier at the scene - even less than what you claim is an alleged lack of evidence for McCowen at the scene - in other words, less than zero.
As for the untested evidence from the scene - are you sitting down for this, because your knees might go wobbly - there was nothing that prevented Bob George from filing a motion during the trial for that evidence to be tested - which George never requested - because the request could have boomeranged and further implicated his client.
You claim there is "no proof of Christopher McCowen even being at the crime scene" - yeah, aside from a DNA match of his semen and saliva in and on Worthington's body, with the odds of the DNA not coming from McCowen about 182 billion to one. Aside from that, no proof at all.
And the evidence of Frazier at the scene - even less than what you claim is an alleged lack of evidence for McCowen at the scene - in other words, less than zero.
As for the untested evidence from the scene - are you sitting down for this, because your knees might go wobbly - there was nothing that prevented Bob George from filing a motion during the trial for that evidence to be tested - which George never requested - because the request could have boomeranged and further implicated his client.
clamshelli [Visitor] writes:
Jack,
Could you answer one question for me? How do you explain the call from the Yarmouth State police barracks, to that cell phone of JF's/Murphys? oh, on the night of the murder (according to the Prosecution)? Just answer that one question for me, please.
Could you answer one question for me? How do you explain the call from the Yarmouth State police barracks, to that cell phone of JF's/Murphys? oh, on the night of the murder (according to the Prosecution)? Just answer that one question for me, please.
bittersweet [Member] writes:
But, since McCowen told them it was JF at the interview, they would have to use it, because he would inevitably tell a lawyer that same thing.
And actually, I think BG thought he had a solid case with plenty of reasonable doubt already without testing all the evidence. He made the statement, didn't he, that he had other witnesses to bring in, but he didn't want to ruin more lives? I mean, who there do you think had 10-12 inch long hair?
And once again, and again, and again, the dna and saliva prove that they had sex. It doesn't prove when.
YOU choose to belive it was rape and murder, but there is absolutely no proof!
Only Mason's testimony, which the jury dismissed.(or so they say anyway)
But they do think that the murder weapon was a knife used in fishing? Doubt that she would have one? Or a garbageman would have one?
See, there it is...doubt.
As that x -lawyer said, "It's a sad day for the justice system in Massachussetts.
And actually, I think BG thought he had a solid case with plenty of reasonable doubt already without testing all the evidence. He made the statement, didn't he, that he had other witnesses to bring in, but he didn't want to ruin more lives? I mean, who there do you think had 10-12 inch long hair?
And once again, and again, and again, the dna and saliva prove that they had sex. It doesn't prove when.
YOU choose to belive it was rape and murder, but there is absolutely no proof!
Only Mason's testimony, which the jury dismissed.(or so they say anyway)
But they do think that the murder weapon was a knife used in fishing? Doubt that she would have one? Or a garbageman would have one?
See, there it is...doubt.
As that x -lawyer said, "It's a sad day for the justice system in Massachussetts.
Jack Coleman [Member] writes:
In response to clamshelli - based on testimony in the trial, safe to say that Frazier was a police drug informant, or was at least suspected of being one?
bittersweet, by your alleged logic, Mason and Burke "would have to use" everything - everything - that McCowen told them after he was arrested because CM would "inevitably tell a lawyer the same thing." In other words, Mason and Burke accurately recounted what CM told them. Thanks for clarifying that.
The DNA evidence did not prove sex, it proved sexual contact. Big difference between sex - which implies consent - and sexual contact - which can include rape. Based on your lofty standard of all rights accruing to the defendant and the none to the victim, thousands of accused rapists would walk free because they left no evidence of assault, only their DNA.
That 10- to 12-inch long hair? From the pony-tailed former boyfriend who once lived with Worthington and whose hair and semen were found on the blanket that EMTs used to cover her body.
bittersweet, by your alleged logic, Mason and Burke "would have to use" everything - everything - that McCowen told them after he was arrested because CM would "inevitably tell a lawyer the same thing." In other words, Mason and Burke accurately recounted what CM told them. Thanks for clarifying that.
The DNA evidence did not prove sex, it proved sexual contact. Big difference between sex - which implies consent - and sexual contact - which can include rape. Based on your lofty standard of all rights accruing to the defendant and the none to the victim, thousands of accused rapists would walk free because they left no evidence of assault, only their DNA.
That 10- to 12-inch long hair? From the pony-tailed former boyfriend who once lived with Worthington and whose hair and semen were found on the blanket that EMTs used to cover her body.
clamshelli [Visitor] writes:
Nice try Jack, but you didnt answer the question. IF JF was an informant, then why didnt Burke or Mason explain the call? I am going on facts brought out in the trial, NOT RUMOR. As far as I am concerned, JF being an informant is RUMOR. That call needs explanation since it ties JF, DM - the convicted killer of the headless handless body - AND State Police to the murder, ON the very night they say the murder happened. Can you explain that?
Jack Coleman [Member] writes:
That's why I phrased it the way I did about whether Frazier was a police informant as opposed to stating it as fact, clamshelli. But based on the testimony of Shawn Mulvey and Frazier's phone records brought into evidence during the trial, Frazier was suspected of being an informant.
As for Frazier's repeated calls to police on the night of the murder - a couple dozen attempts, as I recall from the trial, with one call back from police lasting less than a minute, based on the phone records - something significant involving Frazier happened at the party in Eastham. Do you recall what it was?
As for Frazier's repeated calls to police on the night of the murder - a couple dozen attempts, as I recall from the trial, with one call back from police lasting less than a minute, based on the phone records - something significant involving Frazier happened at the party in Eastham. Do you recall what it was?
clamshelli [Visitor] writes:
There was one call FROM the State Police Barracks TO JF/DM's cell phone. The other numerous calls were FROM JF/DM's cell phone TO a pager. I dont know anything about pagers. I am talking about the ONE call to that cell phone FROM the State Police Barracks. I dont know what the party has to do with anything. The "Statement" that Mason presented, puts JF at Christa's house that night. The prosecution wants us to believe that the murder happened that night. So, again, I ask, how do they explain that phone call? It's obvious you can't answer that. Dont you think that in one hella BIG question that needs to be answered? Do you understand why there is STILL outrage regarding this investigation and trial? I've got more big questions, but this one really needs to be addressed.
clamshelli [Visitor] writes:
I will ask the question one more time. The call FROM the State Police Barracks, TO JF/DM's cell phone ties JF, the convicted murderer, DM, AND the State Police to the murder, ON the night they claimed the murder happened, and BEFORE the body was discovered. Does it not? There is no explanation for this call. Is that a little detail that people want to skip over?
Jack Coleman [Member] writes:
Clearly you are not well informed when it comes to this case, clamshelli. If you were, you'd understand the significance of what happened at the party in Eastham - Frazier was involved in a nasty brawl, according to the testimony of at least three witnesses at the party.
The most likely explanation for Frazier's repeated calls to state police that night - he is acting in his capacity as (alleged) police informant to rat out the guy he fought at the party. You are right about one thing - there are "numerous" (again, about two dozen, according to the phone records) calls from Frazier to state police, indicating he's pretty jazzed up about something, most likely the fight. And the one return call from state police - a cover-the-base response to an insistent yet ultimately annoying snitch.
Unless you believe that Frazier was determined to get the attention of police on the night he allegedly kills Worthington. But gee, that's not very plausible, wouldn't you agree?
The most likely explanation for Frazier's repeated calls to state police that night - he is acting in his capacity as (alleged) police informant to rat out the guy he fought at the party. You are right about one thing - there are "numerous" (again, about two dozen, according to the phone records) calls from Frazier to state police, indicating he's pretty jazzed up about something, most likely the fight. And the one return call from state police - a cover-the-base response to an insistent yet ultimately annoying snitch.
Unless you believe that Frazier was determined to get the attention of police on the night he allegedly kills Worthington. But gee, that's not very plausible, wouldn't you agree?
clamshelli [Visitor] writes:
Umm...I think YOU are the one that is misinformed regarding the case. The numerous calls you mention where NEVER determind to be TO the police. JF said on the stand, that those calls were to HIS pager, that he lost, and that is why there were so many calls. So, if you have some inside information regarding JF's pager, and those calls being to the police, that was NEVER in the trial. I followed every minute of that trial, and have read everything there is to read about it. Do you not understand why people are still outraged by this case?
Jack Coleman [Member] writes:
You're certainly entitled to your opinion, clamshelli, but clearly you don't understand the significance of Frazier being involved in a fight that night - violent behavior witnessed by McCowen that becomes part of the rationale for McCowen to later try and pin Worthington's murder on Frazier.
Just out of curiosity, does the presumption of innocence apply only to McCowen, or does it also apply to Frazier? Assuming it applies to Frazier as well, the burden is on you to explain the relevance of the call(s) to any alleged involvement by Frazier in Worthington's murder.
As for that alleged widespread outrage over this case - strongly reminiscent of the anger among Manson "family" members after Uncle Charlie was convicted.
Just out of curiosity, does the presumption of innocence apply only to McCowen, or does it also apply to Frazier? Assuming it applies to Frazier as well, the burden is on you to explain the relevance of the call(s) to any alleged involvement by Frazier in Worthington's murder.
As for that alleged widespread outrage over this case - strongly reminiscent of the anger among Manson "family" members after Uncle Charlie was convicted.
clamshelli [Visitor] writes:
Again, you skip over the question. The party has nothing to do with the question I asked. I tire of typing the same thing over and over. You refuse to answer that direct question, and your information regarding those calls to the pager is wrong. UNLESS you know more about this case and the police involvement than you want to say. I asked a straight question, you have not given me a straight answer. I doubt you can give me an answer, therefore you try to muddy the waters with other subjects. Regardless, the question remains unexplained. The phone call ties JF, the convicted murderer-DM, AND the State Police to the murder, ON the night of the murder (as they presented it) BEFORE the body was discovered. An explanation from the State Police is needed, otherwise they will have to endure the continued outrage.
Jack Coleman [Member] writes:
You not liking my answer doesn't mean I didn't answer the question, clamshelli. Try reading it again, perhaps more slowly this time.
Now it's your turn - the relevance of the alleged call(s) between Frazier and state police. Unless you can state a possible connection (any connection!) between the calls and Worthington's death, you're the one muddying the waters.
Now it's your turn - the relevance of the alleged call(s) between Frazier and state police. Unless you can state a possible connection (any connection!) between the calls and Worthington's death, you're the one muddying the waters.
clamshelli [Visitor] writes:
Now Jack,
I will type this very slowly for you. You said:
"Now it's your turn - the relevance of the alleged call(s) between Frazier and state police. Unless you can state a possible connection (any connection!) between the calls and Worthington's death, you're the one muddying the waters."
08/14/07 @ 1:44 pm
Ok...ya ready? Here is the connection for you. A cell phone, owned by David Murphy (a convicted murderer for a headless handless body in Somerville) and held by J. Frazier gets a call FROM the State Police Barracks, at 1:00AM ON the night of Christa Worthington's murder, as the prosecution presented it. The prosecution presented a "statement", putting JF at Christa Worthington's house on that night. If the prosecution wants us to believe that "statement", they WHY was someone from the State Police Barracks calling that cell phone, on the night of the murder? Again, the phone call ties DM, JF, and the State Police, to the murder, before the body was found, and needs to be explained.
I will type this very slowly for you. You said:
"Now it's your turn - the relevance of the alleged call(s) between Frazier and state police. Unless you can state a possible connection (any connection!) between the calls and Worthington's death, you're the one muddying the waters."
08/14/07 @ 1:44 pm
Ok...ya ready? Here is the connection for you. A cell phone, owned by David Murphy (a convicted murderer for a headless handless body in Somerville) and held by J. Frazier gets a call FROM the State Police Barracks, at 1:00AM ON the night of Christa Worthington's murder, as the prosecution presented it. The prosecution presented a "statement", putting JF at Christa Worthington's house on that night. If the prosecution wants us to believe that "statement", they WHY was someone from the State Police Barracks calling that cell phone, on the night of the murder? Again, the phone call ties DM, JF, and the State Police, to the murder, before the body was found, and needs to be explained.
crusader [Member] writes:
clamshelli,
Maybe Jack needs to review JF's testimony--OR LACK THERE OF on NPR's by Ms. White...that detailed audio transcript could post here so he can hear how many times JF answered, "I DON'T KNOW" to BG's questions, & how many times he said "the MSP told him what to say....",according to JF, he couldn't remember, so we are to believe that MSP made a story for JF to present. He wasn't very convincing on the stand, was he? Maybe that uncle of his; former Truro LE, allegedly connected with MSP & state house was all JF needed to get him in the clear.
Many questions need to be answered.
BTW, heard Finneran today on the radio was on the TIMES magazine report on worst & best jobs--I wanted to call in to the show & ask about his best & worst jobs--don't think he's had many--state house speaker, Boston Scientific, to a felon to talk show host. Did someone say we were still living in a Democracy? Why do we have a governor, when it's obvious who is running the state.
Maybe Jack needs to review JF's testimony--OR LACK THERE OF on NPR's by Ms. White...that detailed audio transcript could post here so he can hear how many times JF answered, "I DON'T KNOW" to BG's questions, & how many times he said "the MSP told him what to say....",according to JF, he couldn't remember, so we are to believe that MSP made a story for JF to present. He wasn't very convincing on the stand, was he? Maybe that uncle of his; former Truro LE, allegedly connected with MSP & state house was all JF needed to get him in the clear.
Many questions need to be answered.
BTW, heard Finneran today on the radio was on the TIMES magazine report on worst & best jobs--I wanted to call in to the show & ask about his best & worst jobs--don't think he's had many--state house speaker, Boston Scientific, to a felon to talk show host. Did someone say we were still living in a Democracy? Why do we have a governor, when it's obvious who is running the state.
clamshelli [Visitor] writes:
Crusader,
He not only was totally wrong about those phone calls from the pager,(and he called ME misinformed) but he also admits to purposely publishing rumors. Not very professional behaviour from someone who is supposed to be a writer of news - IF that is what he is - I honestly dont know him from a hole in the wall.
He not only was totally wrong about those phone calls from the pager,(and he called ME misinformed) but he also admits to purposely publishing rumors. Not very professional behaviour from someone who is supposed to be a writer of news - IF that is what he is - I honestly dont know him from a hole in the wall.
Jack Coleman [Member] writes:
clamshelli, seeing how I'm so wildly off the mark about the most plausible reason for state police attempting to contact Jeremy Frazier that night, perhaps you can enlighten me. By all means, I'd love to hear you explain what happened.
clamshelli [Visitor] writes:
I have no idea what the reason is. But it sure needs answering. I just dont see how anyone can buy the prosecution's case or be satisfied with the verdict, with big questions like that still hanging. That is only one of the big questions I have. Seeing it took all day to get a NONanswer from you, Ill just hold on to my others. Since you agree with the verdict, I wanted to ask you that question. To me, the racial comments of the jurors are small potatoes compared to this question, and a few others. But thanks for your time today, even though you didnt miss an opportunity to insult my intelligence.
So, no, I have no answer to that question, and it is one of the reasons that I will never get over that verdict.
So, no, I have no answer to that question, and it is one of the reasons that I will never get over that verdict.
crusader [Member] writes:
Maybe you should stick to writing about windfarms, Jack. I think you are better at that than crime news. You really don't have a clue. Maybe it's because you grew up in the "Leave it to Beaver" world like a lot of people who haven't lived close to the dynamics of inner city life, like some of us. We can usually spot thugs when we see them. Unfortunately, there are some right in your own backyard that you refuse to accept. I'm willing to accept a Boston connection to this crime--are you willing to accept one on Cape Cod? Doesn't look like it---
I use to enjoy those days on Hoxie Pond when I first arrived to the island, believing that Cape Cod was just a beautiful place, untouched by crime & ignorance. I can ever look at the place again in the same way. Most won't bother to share, they just move on and say screw it. I will in time, but not until the people learn the truth about this case. A woman is dead, and an innocent man is in jail because some wanted it that way. That is the third tragedy.
I use to enjoy those days on Hoxie Pond when I first arrived to the island, believing that Cape Cod was just a beautiful place, untouched by crime & ignorance. I can ever look at the place again in the same way. Most won't bother to share, they just move on and say screw it. I will in time, but not until the people learn the truth about this case. A woman is dead, and an innocent man is in jail because some wanted it that way. That is the third tragedy.
Jack Coleman [Member] writes:
clamshelli, ever occur to you that any contact or attempted contact between Frazier and state police had nothing to do with Worthington's death?
Here's a genuine alarming coincidence - McCowen's meeting with police in Orleans in his capacity as a drug informant (and that he was one is beyond dispute). Know what's amazing about this meeting? Took place only 24 hours after Worthington's body was found. Yeah, hard to believe.
According to the testimony of two of the officers who met with McCowen, CM mentioned three drug suspects. McCowen was short on specifics for two of them, but not the third - Jeremy Frazier. Oh man, did McCowen provide a wealth of detail about Frazier's alleged drug dealing, according to the cops' testimony.
The significance of this? McCowen is already concocting a cover story to have Frazier take the rap for Worthington's murder. McCowen knows that Frazier was drinking heavily that night, got into a fight at the party in Eastham and left with a full head of steam.
And McCowen knows he can also count on all too many people falling for this fantasy.
Here's a genuine alarming coincidence - McCowen's meeting with police in Orleans in his capacity as a drug informant (and that he was one is beyond dispute). Know what's amazing about this meeting? Took place only 24 hours after Worthington's body was found. Yeah, hard to believe.
According to the testimony of two of the officers who met with McCowen, CM mentioned three drug suspects. McCowen was short on specifics for two of them, but not the third - Jeremy Frazier. Oh man, did McCowen provide a wealth of detail about Frazier's alleged drug dealing, according to the cops' testimony.
The significance of this? McCowen is already concocting a cover story to have Frazier take the rap for Worthington's murder. McCowen knows that Frazier was drinking heavily that night, got into a fight at the party in Eastham and left with a full head of steam.
And McCowen knows he can also count on all too many people falling for this fantasy.
clamshelli [Visitor] writes:
IF that phone call had nothing to do with Worthington's death, then why didnt Burke or Mason say that? Why did Mason turn ten shades of red when asked about it. And why didnt Burke explain the call? McCowen was busted for a posessing a bong outside a party before the murder, and Mazzone busted him for it, but let him go if he would give someone up. Which he did. That was the end of his career as a drug informant, as was said in the trial. He did NOT go to the police the day after the murder, THEY went to him. You need to go over the trial testimony again if your are going to spout this stuff.
Jack Coleman [Member] writes:
Mason and Burke were not among the police officers who met with McCowen the day after Worthington's body was found. They investigate homicides, not drug offenses. How can Mason or Burke explain the call(s) if they have no idea why they were made or who made them?
From their perspective, if it's not germaine to their case, they aren't going to waste their time pursuing it. Wishful thinking on your part is not enough to make this aspect of the case relevant.
I didn't say, as you imply, that McCowen went to police the day after Worthington's body was found; I said that he met with police that day in his capacity as a drug informant, which he did and which he was. And the name McCowen coughs up to fulfill his obligation to the cops is that of Jeremy Frazier, the same person he later claims killed Worthington. Wow, what a coincidence!
From their perspective, if it's not germaine to their case, they aren't going to waste their time pursuing it. Wishful thinking on your part is not enough to make this aspect of the case relevant.
I didn't say, as you imply, that McCowen went to police the day after Worthington's body was found; I said that he met with police that day in his capacity as a drug informant, which he did and which he was. And the name McCowen coughs up to fulfill his obligation to the cops is that of Jeremy Frazier, the same person he later claims killed Worthington. Wow, what a coincidence!
clamshelli [Visitor] writes:
yeah right, Mason and Burke and JF's "handler" Hess never talked to each other regarding his involvement. Let's not forget that his alibi was constructed or "fed" to him, (his words) AFTER the grand jury. At the time of the grand jury, Shaun Murphy had said he didnt know anything about it. It was AFTER the grand jury, that LE went all the way down to Florida to convince Shaun Murphy to come back up to testify. OK? Evidently you dont have all the facts of the case, at least not enough to give me any new insight. For some reason I thought you could shed some light on some of the haunting questions I have, but I was mistaken. Now, I have two reasons to disregard what you write - purposely publishing rumors and spouting about a trial that you really dont have the facts straight.
Jeff [Member] writes:
I have no idea what Jack's motivation is, but after a few comments I kinda got the idea that he must be working for someone, or listening to the same dog as David Berkowitz, and so my attitude quickly became: Just don't piss him off, he might come to your house, and so I held off commenting. Plus, if you get paid to write stories, blogging seems awfully a lot like that other thing you do alone.
But here goes: I believe that too much is made of the details, and not enough to the big picture, which, to me, is about who controls the court room, the judge, a political appointee, the DA, a political animal, and the defense counsel. In the cases at hand, we have George and Reddington. The last time these two were linked in a story was 1988, scene of a previous government cover-up, and who represented the Scapegoats in New Bedford but George and Reddington. I'm not saying they are bad guys. Just the opposite. It's what I would have done if I could have gone to law school. These two are super-lawyers, and they are also carefully chosen for the tasks at hand.
But here goes: I believe that too much is made of the details, and not enough to the big picture, which, to me, is about who controls the court room, the judge, a political appointee, the DA, a political animal, and the defense counsel. In the cases at hand, we have George and Reddington. The last time these two were linked in a story was 1988, scene of a previous government cover-up, and who represented the Scapegoats in New Bedford but George and Reddington. I'm not saying they are bad guys. Just the opposite. It's what I would have done if I could have gone to law school. These two are super-lawyers, and they are also carefully chosen for the tasks at hand.
Jack Coleman [Member] writes:
How about trying to get to the truth as motivation, Jeff, that cross your mind?
You wrote that "apparently some of these neighbors feel the two may know each other beyond the courthouse," referring to Gryboski and O'Keefe. Begs the question - how many neighbors did you talk to?
I agree, the big picture is important. But so are the details.
You wrote that "apparently some of these neighbors feel the two may know each other beyond the courthouse," referring to Gryboski and O'Keefe. Begs the question - how many neighbors did you talk to?
I agree, the big picture is important. But so are the details.
crusader [Member] writes:
Sounds to me, like a "mob mentality"--the undercurrents of this case. An insightful book to read, "Street Soldier", by E. Mackenzie, Jr., describes his involvement in the Boston Mob.....when he writes, "....as was the Code of Silence, which protected murderers and forced others to take the rap for crimes they did not commit. Today, I prefer to call it the Code of Bullshit."
"FORCED OTHERS TO TAKE THE RAP FOR CRIMES THEY DID NOT COMMIT."--
So, I wonder what could be worse than going to jail for life?
"FORCED OTHERS TO TAKE THE RAP FOR CRIMES THEY DID NOT COMMIT."--
So, I wonder what could be worse than going to jail for life?
Buzz [Member] writes:
Hey, wait a minute. The Boston Mob you refer to.... didn't they work out of Winter Hill in Sommerville?
Damn, I was just about to sell-off my property in this corrupt, racist and ignortant place we call Cape Cod and move to Sommerville to be close to Crusader and "The way life ought to be" and now she drops a bombshell about the mob operating in Sommerville.
What's an honest guy suppose to do?
Damn, I was just about to sell-off my property in this corrupt, racist and ignortant place we call Cape Cod and move to Sommerville to be close to Crusader and "The way life ought to be" and now she drops a bombshell about the mob operating in Sommerville.
What's an honest guy suppose to do?
crusader [Member] writes:
My last post to Jack, "I am willing to accept a connection to Boston to this case--are you willing to accept one to Cape Cod"-- crime is everywhere, but I still believe it's harder to get away with crime in the city, because it's not a CLOSED COMMUNITY like it is there. There are more ears & eyes that will speak out at injustices, unlike your "Code of Silence" that goes on there.
Look, I don't know who was behind this murder, Buzz, questions need to be answered based on what we saw at that joke of a trial--no clear answers from MSP, witnesses, biased jury (I wonder why that camera guy from 48 hours was getting the jury on camera?) Later, jury member gets bounced, and first judge gets run over by a golf cart & replaced- Let's not forget the first ME left under mysterious circumstances--"undetermined illness"...where is he now? Did he leave the state too, like the rest, when they suspected foul play by LE?
Maybe CC has got their own "mob" or maybe it's connected to somewhere else.
DM was involved in dismembering a body--hello?
Look, I don't know who was behind this murder, Buzz, questions need to be answered based on what we saw at that joke of a trial--no clear answers from MSP, witnesses, biased jury (I wonder why that camera guy from 48 hours was getting the jury on camera?) Later, jury member gets bounced, and first judge gets run over by a golf cart & replaced- Let's not forget the first ME left under mysterious circumstances--"undetermined illness"...where is he now? Did he leave the state too, like the rest, when they suspected foul play by LE?
Maybe CC has got their own "mob" or maybe it's connected to somewhere else.
DM was involved in dismembering a body--hello?
crusader [Member] writes:
Buzz,
The Winter Hill Gang is no longer in Somerville, you dope. They relocated to Southie & South Shore; Quincy, Braintree, etc. according to the books: Brother Bulger's & Street Soldier. It all seems to go down hill, you know that slippery slope....You should also pay attention to what goes on in Norfolk County (Patriot Ledger) lots of interesting articles.....
Somerville is the up & rising home of the YUPPIES with skyrocketing home values that WILL NOT depreciate in value, because we have JOB SECURITY HERE to SUSTAIN people.
The Winter Hill Gang is no longer in Somerville, you dope. They relocated to Southie & South Shore; Quincy, Braintree, etc. according to the books: Brother Bulger's & Street Soldier. It all seems to go down hill, you know that slippery slope....You should also pay attention to what goes on in Norfolk County (Patriot Ledger) lots of interesting articles.....
Somerville is the up & rising home of the YUPPIES with skyrocketing home values that WILL NOT depreciate in value, because we have JOB SECURITY HERE to SUSTAIN people.
bittersweet [Member] writes:
How about these guys just answer some common sense questions? If a guy who is black, living in a white community, where he is usually looked on as kind of suspect anyway (remeber JC; "he knew where she lived, and that she was a single mother". Yeah, so probabaly did the whole town of Truro! but ooooohh, the black guy knows...danger, danger) So if he raped her, and killed her, he's going to stick around here and wait to get caught? Riiight.
He freely goes to the police station alone, doesn't "lawyer-up" as some did, because he knew he had nothing to hide. After all, they already were using him as an informant, they knew all about him. (Despite what JC says, that Chris master-minded this whole defense to lay it on JF. Jf doesn't need any help being portrayed as a punk. He already has been arrested for B&E-stabbing someone-and apparently has a hot temper. If i was one to go on circumstantial evidence, it would have been him or TA, or TJ, or BP, or PW, or DC, geez-how long does this list go?)
He freely goes to the police station alone, doesn't "lawyer-up" as some did, because he knew he had nothing to hide. After all, they already were using him as an informant, they knew all about him. (Despite what JC says, that Chris master-minded this whole defense to lay it on JF. Jf doesn't need any help being portrayed as a punk. He already has been arrested for B&E-stabbing someone-and apparently has a hot temper. If i was one to go on circumstantial evidence, it would have been him or TA, or TJ, or BP, or PW, or DC, geez-how long does this list go?)
crusader [Member] writes:
It's no use, bittersweet, "they" want CM to remain behind bars so the real killer(s) can walk. CM had been in jail before, minor offenses, so it made it easy to pin on him. But that other one, you mentioned allegedly has a long rap sheet and has a background of violence. It's all who you know--ex-Truro cop uncle, maybe connected with MSP & state house, that's all it takes, in my opinion or lots of dough to buy your way out. There is no real justice when it comes to putting the wrong person behind bars. What are they hiding? Who really killed CW? And why didn't the DA send CM's DNA pronto when he became a suspect (got lost at state lab--BS, took another year to process?) & all the rest of forensics. DNA(sex) was not enough. CM had no motive. Was he set up for something else---drug related? The drug dealers wanted him out of their territory for some reason. Didn't help had too many white girlfriends who enjoyed his company--he became their fall guy. Lots of men disapprove of inter-racial relationships. It's another hidden fact in our society.
bittersweet [Member] writes:
Something about this whole party thing has been bugging me, and then I remembered what. I thought they used a phone call that CM made to his girlfriend against him in court as proof that he went to CW's alone. Wasn't it alleged that CM and JF separated after the Juice Bar? In fact,some-one remarked that that information is what sealed CM's fate. According to them, Jf went to the party, and CM went to CW's to kill her. Right?
magician [Member] writes:
OK , This whole trial with CM Just stank, I thought I was watching a witch trial. Sorry Folks But to Inform you again a major Drug cartel operates out of Ptown ansd supplies the whole Eastern Seaboard with Drugs. HELLO , this is why CW got killed. She threatened to tell all and thus the Foood chain would be destroyed , all the way from Fisherman, addicts, police on the Take, corrupt Lawyers, Judges, mob Connections and Yes to Whitey bulger who hung out in Ptown even if he was a cross dresser to the politicians and cops in Boston. MONEY , Big money coming in on Fishing Boats stuffed in the fish and driven to NYC, Boston , Weymouth. Stop and shop trucks. The Feds are involved too. Big operation from the caribean, Mexico, Afghanistan , columbia = This is why CW got killed. She was going to expose everyone. Just Read Capecod Snakedance by a swedish professor at Amazon.com. and 2 Men told me they were at The bradford Playing pool when an Undercover cop came in and confessed he killed linda silva. This same cop was also dating CW at the time of her Death. Coinscidence , UH UH ..
Buzz [Member] writes:
Speaking of Amazon.com, has the book that the "Amazing" someone or other, ever been published?
It was suppose to be a tell all about CW. I'm sure it will be a very interesting read.
He was the guy that claimed (incorrectly) to be the subject of a play.
It was suppose to be a tell all about CW. I'm sure it will be a very interesting read.
He was the guy that claimed (incorrectly) to be the subject of a play.
bittersweet [Member] writes:
Care to address any of the other issues Buzz?
magician [Member] writes:
HEY BUZZ , I am Not Tarquin. Walter Brooks has Known me since 1980 .
donovanatee [Member] writes:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tK1O5NzUOiI
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Samizdat (Russian: самиздат) was the clandestine copying and distribution of government-suppressed literature or other media in Soviet-bloc countries. Copies were made a few at a time, and those who received a copy would be expected to make more copies. This was often done by handwriting or typing. (Credit; wikipedia)
Jeff Blanchard is a freelance writer who lives in Brewster. This blog is an archive of his past work.
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