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:: Friday, November 20th, 2009Cape Cod Murder
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Reasonable doubt about a verdict
11/08/07 · 8:40 am :: posted by Jack Coleman
Readers over a certain age may remember a great television series of the mid-70s called "Ellery Queen" based on the literary crime sleuth. The title character was played by the late Jim Hutton, father of actor Timothy Hutton. Each week's show would revolve around a murder mystery and Queen's efforts to solve it, which he'd invariably do at the end of every episode upon noticing a previously seen but seemingly innocuous clue.
That's it, Queen would say, turning to the camera and addressing the viewer. And if you paid attention, you figured it out too. After a commercial break, the show would return with all the major players assembled and Queen would explain whodunit, and why.
In the year since the trial, I've wondered - had there been a seemingly innocuous piece of evidence or testimony that, if held to the light at the right angle, would become a Rosetta Stone unraveling the mystery?
Based on what I saw and heard while covering the trial as a stringer for the New York Post and blogging about it here, there was no such clue, at least not for me. But there's one that came close - the mysterious driver barreling out of Worthington's driveway on the afternoon of Jan. 5, 2002, the day before her body was discovered.
Testifying during the trial, Truro resident Girard Smith said he saw a "large dark vehicle" speeding down Worthington's driveway between 1 and 3 p.m. on Jan. 5. The vehicle came within 15 feet of him, Smith testified, and was driven so fast it could easily have crashed into another vehicle.
Did you see the driver, Smith was asked on the stand. Yes, he was a white male in his late 30s, early 40s - which means it could not be McCowen, who is black.
Don't get me wrong, this hardly proves McCowen is innocent, nor is it proof the driver in such a hurry had anything to do with Worthington's death. But when combined with another aspect of the case, it allows for the unsettling possibility that McCowen did not murder Worthington or did not act alone as alleged by the prosecution.
Early in the trial, on Oct. 23, 2006, pathologist Henry Nields testified that Worthington "had likely been dead for 24 to 36 hours when a colleague from the state medical examiner's office examined her at the crime scene," as reported by Court TV (that colleague, Dr. James Weiner, was too ill during the trial to testify).
Weiner arrived at the Worthington house around 8 p.m. on Sunday, Jan. 6, according to testimony during the trial. Extrapolating back with the timeframe of 24 to 36 hours to the time of Worthington's death, this means she was most likely murdered between 8 p.m. and 8 a.m. on Saturday, Jan. 5. And smack dab in the middle of that timeframe is when Smith saw a vehicle high-tailing it out of Worthington's driveway, presumably with an extremely agitated driver. And the driver seen by Smith was white, not black - and could not have been McCowen.
Again, what Smith witnessed doesn't prove anything beyond his credible description of it. But Smith's testimony does allow for reasonable inferences. Such as - it is reasonable to infer that the person driving the vehicle was aware of, if not involved in, Worthington's death. It is reasonable to infer that the person driving the vehicle was fleeing from the scene in a panic because he was implicated in Worthington's death, either by direct involvement or covering up after the fact. And it is reasonable to infer of at least the possibility that Worthington was murdered on the afternoon of Jan. 5 and not the night before by McCowen, as the prosecution claimed and jurors ultimately agreed.
Eight months after Worthington's death, I attended a journalism conference in Maine with several of my colleagues from the Cape Cod Times, where the paper was honored with several awards, including one I received for investigative reporting. The guest speaker at the opening night dinner was author Dominick Dunne, who spoke mainly about the conviction earlier that year of Michael Skakel for the October 1975 bludgeoning death of 15-year-old Martha Moxley.
The Moxley case was not one I'd followed but Dunne's remarks - and the man is a consummate raconteur - piqued my interest. The Moxleys and the Skakels had lived only a block apart in Greenwich, Conn., and Dunne described how Dorothy Moxley, Martha's mother, told him of the anguish she suffered for years whenever she drove past the the Skakel house (she eventually moved out of the neighborhood).
Every time Mrs. Moxley saw the house, Dunne recounted, she thought that maybe the person who killed her daughter did not live there, but the people in the house knew who did. And that was almost as bad.
I think the same can be said of the driver of the vehicle witnessed by Smith. His presence at the scene hardly proves the man committed murder, whoever he is. But it sure as hell looks like he knows who did.
(photo credit, washingtonpost.com)
230 comments
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Jack Coleman [Member] writes:
My willingness to part with previous beliefs, also known as freedom of thought.
bittersweet [Member] writes:
Well,Halleluyah Jack!!!!Thank you for writing this article. Now maybe more people will listen...unbiasedly.
All you have to do is put your thinking caps on, and it all falls right into place.
All you have to do is put your thinking caps on, and it all falls right into place.
clamshelli [Visitor] writes:
Gotta give it you, Jack. At least you are not afraid to change your mind and not be stubborn about it. I totally agree with you regarding that speeding truck/van. And I think there are people who know the real story, and for one reason or another will not come forward. In any event, there is plenty of reasonable doubt there. The verdict was just wrong. And there is plenty to question regarding LE's case. I tend to think anyone that is still arguing that CM is quilty is either involved in this case, or just plain stubborn when it comes to thinking about all of this and changing their mind. There certainly is plenty to question. Thank you for this blog post.
legal_owl [Member] writes:
very nice jack
thanks for pinpointing one of the most disguised inconsistencies in this case, the TOD
flew right past the jury
most posters missed it
for those that commented on it, most referred to it as smoke and mirrors by the defense
few realized that the original ME was medically indisposed and that a substitute testified based on the original MEs notes
lots of accidents/incidents in this case...leaves one wondering what in the world was happening on the cape
thanks for pinpointing one of the most disguised inconsistencies in this case, the TOD
flew right past the jury
most posters missed it
for those that commented on it, most referred to it as smoke and mirrors by the defense
few realized that the original ME was medically indisposed and that a substitute testified based on the original MEs notes
lots of accidents/incidents in this case...leaves one wondering what in the world was happening on the cape
clamshelli [Visitor] writes:
I know this is pushin' it Jack, but what do you think of the way Mr. Smith was being confused by LE when he was finally interviewed? And lets remember that he was interviewed quite by accident, after he saw State Troopers walking in the neighborhood. He waited and waited to be contacted, but he said that no one seemed to think what he saw was that.....important.
bittersweet [Member] writes:
What legal owl???...crusader has been scraming this stuff for years, and everyone here called her a nut case, and much much worse, and Jack was one of em! The people at court tv had this case marked from the word go!!!
Kind of makes you wonder what exactly that jury was doing in there while they were supposed to be deliberating all the material in a serious way.
"He's black, he scares me."
"What's with your cornrows?"
"He's staring at us."
Convicted due to being big and black. End of story.
Kind of makes you wonder what exactly that jury was doing in there while they were supposed to be deliberating all the material in a serious way.
"He's black, he scares me."
"What's with your cornrows?"
"He's staring at us."
Convicted due to being big and black. End of story.
clamshelli [Visitor] writes:
Bittersweet,
I may have this wrong, but the way I understand this is, that if they rule racial bias, then the appeal is on hold, and the case stays RIGHT HERE, on the Cape? I am almost hoping that Nickerson finds NO racial bias, and the appeal goes on, OFF CAPE. Maybe someone with more understanding of the process can clarify this.
I may have this wrong, but the way I understand this is, that if they rule racial bias, then the appeal is on hold, and the case stays RIGHT HERE, on the Cape? I am almost hoping that Nickerson finds NO racial bias, and the appeal goes on, OFF CAPE. Maybe someone with more understanding of the process can clarify this.
bittersweet [Member] writes:
Oh damn, in that case, they gotta get it out of here!! He'll only be screwed again if they keep it here.
And this is no damn joke. This was a serious criminal mis-use of the justice system to serve a few people's ends. It must be exposed for what it is.
And Christopher McCowen should not spend one more day in that rat hole from hell.
And this is no damn joke. This was a serious criminal mis-use of the justice system to serve a few people's ends. It must be exposed for what it is.
And Christopher McCowen should not spend one more day in that rat hole from hell.
Monponsett [Member] writes:
Check my blog, jack,,, I interviewed Bob Hodge.
maverick [Member] writes:
bittersweet..." Convicted due to being big and black. End of story. " I agree but don't think he was totally innocent. I honestly believe he knows what happened and who else is involved.
If CM isn't exposing the whole story it may be that he has decided jail is better than "six feet under".
If CM isn't exposing the whole story it may be that he has decided jail is better than "six feet under".
Buzz [Member] writes:
"big & black" wouldn't hold up if the dna didn't match.
bittersweet [Member] writes:
Well, ok, but I happen to believe that he doesn't know a thing about it, and only said Jeremy Frazier because he knew what Frazier was like. Remember, even his lawyer said Chris didn't know who did it, only that it might have been Frazier.
Come to thnk of it, George DID say that, so wtf Mason?
And for god's sake buzz, how long are you going to remain stupid? Just because he slept with her, you can't then hang him for murder!!!
They didn't prove rape. There was NO evidence of CM even being there.
So, where is your proof? There is none.
Your doctor admitted to killing a guy, had a loaded gun in her purse, and you say let her go, but because CM had sex with CW, you want him to die in prison?
Something is wrong with your way of thinking, and maybe you should examine it.
Come to thnk of it, George DID say that, so wtf Mason?
And for god's sake buzz, how long are you going to remain stupid? Just because he slept with her, you can't then hang him for murder!!!
They didn't prove rape. There was NO evidence of CM even being there.
So, where is your proof? There is none.
Your doctor admitted to killing a guy, had a loaded gun in her purse, and you say let her go, but because CM had sex with CW, you want him to die in prison?
Something is wrong with your way of thinking, and maybe you should examine it.
Jack Coleman [Member] writes:
bittersweet, you are aware of the difference between being found not guilty and innocence, aren't you? The state not proving its case does not mean McCowen is innocent, it means there's enough reasonable doubt not to convict.
As for the alleged lack of evidence of McCowen "even being there," you are wrong. The DNA evidence proved conclusively that there was sexual contact between McCowen and Worthington (and agreed, this is not proof of sex). By his own admission, McCowen was there but he claimed the sex was consensual.
As for the alleged lack of evidence of McCowen "even being there," you are wrong. The DNA evidence proved conclusively that there was sexual contact between McCowen and Worthington (and agreed, this is not proof of sex). By his own admission, McCowen was there but he claimed the sex was consensual.
Buzz [Member] writes:
bittersweet,
Just because someone disagrees with you, doesn't make them stupid. I question JF and wonder about his involvement with CM. How can you make a comment like "but I happen to believe that he doesn't know a thing about it"? I keep bringing up the fact that McCowen's DNA was not only found in her, but on her breast. Where's the evidence of the two of them having a casual relationship? How come there are no phone records? Why is it that McCowen changed his story at least 8 different times, but the only story YOU believe is the one about the casual sex he had? You talk about an innocent man rotting in a rat hole. If CM came forward after the discovery of CW's body and said he was at her house and having a casual relationship, then maybe LE would have had a better chance of getting the "real" killer. How convenient of him to wait months until they discovered it was his DNA at the scene of the murder.
Just because someone disagrees with you, doesn't make them stupid. I question JF and wonder about his involvement with CM. How can you make a comment like "but I happen to believe that he doesn't know a thing about it"? I keep bringing up the fact that McCowen's DNA was not only found in her, but on her breast. Where's the evidence of the two of them having a casual relationship? How come there are no phone records? Why is it that McCowen changed his story at least 8 different times, but the only story YOU believe is the one about the casual sex he had? You talk about an innocent man rotting in a rat hole. If CM came forward after the discovery of CW's body and said he was at her house and having a casual relationship, then maybe LE would have had a better chance of getting the "real" killer. How convenient of him to wait months until they discovered it was his DNA at the scene of the murder.
bittersweet [Member] writes:
I'm talking about on the day/night she was murdered. I don't think he was there at all. He was there on Thursday to "remove a tree" and they got busy instead. Which, if you think about it, she must have arranged. How would he know she had a tree to remove unless she told him?
And I think that's the end of his involvement with her.
And it's very strange that you now say there's enough reasonable doubt....it's always been there for anyone who wanted to see it.
So, looking back on this, what can you say? Why were so many willing to suspend common sense, and cry "He did it?"
And I think that's the end of his involvement with her.
And it's very strange that you now say there's enough reasonable doubt....it's always been there for anyone who wanted to see it.
So, looking back on this, what can you say? Why were so many willing to suspend common sense, and cry "He did it?"
bittersweet [Member] writes:
buzz...given the attitude of people around here, I don't blame him at all for not coming forward. Then again,maybe he knew she was sleepimg with a lot of guys, and hoped he had nothing to worry about.
But if he had killed her, don't you think he would have high-tailed it out of here faster than you can say jury tampering?
Why in all hell would he stay here and wait to get caught?
But if he had killed her, don't you think he would have high-tailed it out of here faster than you can say jury tampering?
Why in all hell would he stay here and wait to get caught?
Buzz [Member] writes:
"genetic material collected from Worthington's right breast that matches McCowen's DNA could occur only once in 199.8 billion African-Americans."
So if McCowen went there Thursday and "got busy" as you suggest, are you saying Christa didn't take a shower for several days? Again, explain the DNA on her breast?
So if McCowen went there Thursday and "got busy" as you suggest, are you saying Christa didn't take a shower for several days? Again, explain the DNA on her breast?
clamshelli [Visitor] writes:
What is important about this case is what happened in that trial and investigation. On the Outer Cape, we are all "6 degrees..no, 3 degrees from each other". I cannot live in such a small place if LE gets away with lying, manipulating evidence, testimony, and a jury. This shouldnt happen anywhere, but here, on the Cape, it cannot be tolerated by ANYONE. I wish everyone would try to look at what happened in that courtroom. CM is what he is, but he is not the killer and has been railroaded because OUR LE MANIPULATED THAT TRIAL. That is what is important here, and should be to all of us. CM is a borderline retarded trashman, with a rap sheet, into drugs - certainly not the completely innocent victim. BUT, he is not guilty BEYOND a REASONABLE doubt. If this is left this way we all are victims. So much in that trial needs to be looked at and should not be accepted by anyone. Try taking CM out of the equation, if you cant get past him, and look at what happened in that trial. The killer is loose and for some reason, was protected. We need to find out why.
bittersweet [Member] writes:
Excellent post clamshelli...that says it all.
Buzz [Member] writes:
bittersweet,
I'm asking you to explain to me how CW had CM's DNA on her breast 3 days after they had consensual sex?
Is that not a reasonable question for you to answer?
I'm asking you to explain to me how CW had CM's DNA on her breast 3 days after they had consensual sex?
Is that not a reasonable question for you to answer?
clamshelli [Visitor] writes:
Ill answer you Buzz. A single mother, alone with a 2 year old has a hard time getting two minutes to even go the bathroom. Not such a big deal ya know.
Buzz [Member] writes:
So she has plenty of time for casual sex with the garbage man, but no time in 3 days to clean her self up.....thanks for the clarification.
clamshelli [Visitor] writes:
Also, if you believe that the TOD was friday night, as that "statement" you like to quote says it was - then it wasnt 3 days without a shower now was it?
Buzz [Member] writes:
Clamshelli,
Follow the bouncing ball...read my post, I was refering to bitters claim that the two had gotten "busy" on Thursday. Since you've been replying for bitter, I assumed you agreed on the theory.
Follow the bouncing ball...read my post, I was refering to bitters claim that the two had gotten "busy" on Thursday. Since you've been replying for bitter, I assumed you agreed on the theory.
clamshelli [Visitor] writes:
Yes, I was referring to that concept as well. I say that COULD have happened. You say, if that is the case, she didnt shower for 3 days. Hmm....If she had sex on Thursday, and was dead on Friday night... Kinda hard to shower if youre DEAD. OK? So ball is in your court :)
crusader [Member] writes:
Hey Jack,
Glad to see you are willing to look at more than one angle to this case, & keep an open mind. Although, there are strong opinions in both camps, I would hope that all wish the same outcome to this case--just the real truth. Why so many loose ends?
Remember BG mentions condoms found in the septic tank--no follow up. CW's phone records, exactly, Buzz. Where are they, what do they say about who was calling, length of time, nature of the calls. Was someone making threats? If so, who & why?
RE: G.Smith- (may not have exact words, but very close) CCVoice, "Furor over W trial", after the trial, GS said, "I saw a white male, dark, but not black, oval face, between the age of 35-40, with dark hair. I think I saw this same man at the trial, but I don't want to go there, I know he didn't have anything to do with the murder". Who was that? Someone who took the stand, waiting to take the stand but did not, or in the courtroom? Did the driver flee in a panic upon the gruesome discovery, afraid to go to LE? How dare GS say this to the CCVoice.
Glad to see you are willing to look at more than one angle to this case, & keep an open mind. Although, there are strong opinions in both camps, I would hope that all wish the same outcome to this case--just the real truth. Why so many loose ends?
Remember BG mentions condoms found in the septic tank--no follow up. CW's phone records, exactly, Buzz. Where are they, what do they say about who was calling, length of time, nature of the calls. Was someone making threats? If so, who & why?
RE: G.Smith- (may not have exact words, but very close) CCVoice, "Furor over W trial", after the trial, GS said, "I saw a white male, dark, but not black, oval face, between the age of 35-40, with dark hair. I think I saw this same man at the trial, but I don't want to go there, I know he didn't have anything to do with the murder". Who was that? Someone who took the stand, waiting to take the stand but did not, or in the courtroom? Did the driver flee in a panic upon the gruesome discovery, afraid to go to LE? How dare GS say this to the CCVoice.
Jack Coleman [Member] writes:
But it's not hard to shower when you're alive, clamshelli, as Worthington would have been for two days after she allegedly had sex with McCowen on Thursday to her death on Saturday afternoon as described above.
Two days without bathing after sex with the garbageman? Not likely.
Two days without bathing after sex with the garbageman? Not likely.
clamshelli [Visitor] writes:
I stick to what I said earlier. Two days, three days, doesnt matter, a mother alone with a two year old can hardly find two minutes to go to the bathroom. Then, when she does catch a break, maybe she lucky the baby takes a nap, she just may have other priorities. Factor in the supposed messy housekeeping, and maybe even depression....I just dont see that as a show stopper, thats all. The Christmas tree story was documented, wasnt it? And the tree was still standing, so...just a silly argument.
crusader [Member] writes:
....and if GS knows who it is, doesn't he have an obligation to come forward and tell BG? Would this be considered perjury since he was under oath? If he recognized the driver during the trial shouldn't he have come forward at that time and not tell the Cape Cod Voice months later, only to leave the public wondering who this crazed driver was and if he was involved in the murder/coverup on some level. It's obvious by GS's testimony, he became frustrated by the lack of follow up by local police, and later upset when the Dudley Do-right duo, Mason & Burke show up trying to convince him of what they wanted him to see (a red car) instead of what he insisted he saw. Four years is a long time to wait to tell all LE wouldn't hear, then again, he seemed to recall a great number of details that somehow got swept away from the jurors ears. I just wonder if while finding out who this was, could he have been approached and asked to back off, and is afraid of who it is...
cw2 [Member] writes:
This is not an Ellery Queen dime-store novel or a film, the stuff that pure fiction is made of.
This woman was trusting, and DID NOT TAKE OUT A 209A AS SHE SHOULD HAVE.
The DA's office and LE know why women like us hesitate.
CW did not survive long enough to leave a very long documented paper trail, which is what I am fortunate enough to do having managed to survive having had 'the boots put to me.'
CM and his buddy RAPED AND THEN BEAT HER TO DEATH.
No, JC, he is not 'accused.' He is convicted.
'a "large dark vehicle"'
Regardless of how hysterically funny your 'big and black,' and oh, you just can't forget the 'buff,' blog is:
What is McGowen's lifetime criminal rap sheet? Not just convictions, as is presented in court, but police rap sheet?
How many 209A's? How many assaults and batteries against women?
How many other charges?
How many 'bids'?
This woman was trusting, and DID NOT TAKE OUT A 209A AS SHE SHOULD HAVE.
The DA's office and LE know why women like us hesitate.
CW did not survive long enough to leave a very long documented paper trail, which is what I am fortunate enough to do having managed to survive having had 'the boots put to me.'
CM and his buddy RAPED AND THEN BEAT HER TO DEATH.
No, JC, he is not 'accused.' He is convicted.
'a "large dark vehicle"'
Regardless of how hysterically funny your 'big and black,' and oh, you just can't forget the 'buff,' blog is:
What is McGowen's lifetime criminal rap sheet? Not just convictions, as is presented in court, but police rap sheet?
How many 209A's? How many assaults and batteries against women?
How many other charges?
How many 'bids'?
cw2 [Member] writes:
JC,
One last note. And it is a due note of appreciation.
Because of CCToday's 'big, black, buff' blog-o'session with the oh-so-innocent CW's semen, and dragging CW into the gutter, the venue for this trial will not be held on CC.
Thank you.
One last note. And it is a due note of appreciation.
Because of CCToday's 'big, black, buff' blog-o'session with the oh-so-innocent CW's semen, and dragging CW into the gutter, the venue for this trial will not be held on CC.
Thank you.
cw2 [Member] writes:
*CM
CCToday has sunk far lower than any tabloid or paparazzi.
You are now the infamous 'BBB Blog.'
(Or the CCToday CM Mansonite cult, whichever you prefer.)
Please free CM. Do society a favor.
PLEASE!!!
URFD!!!
It ain't journalism.
CCToday has sunk far lower than any tabloid or paparazzi.
You are now the infamous 'BBB Blog.'
(Or the CCToday CM Mansonite cult, whichever you prefer.)
Please free CM. Do society a favor.
PLEASE!!!
URFD!!!
It ain't journalism.
bittersweet [Member] writes:
And you aint any kind of decent human being who can let an INNOCENT person suffer in HELL while the GUILTY one/s go free. This whole case was a lie from the start, and if you can't see that it's because you don't want to.
This place wanted to convict someone and they made sure it happened. Just because of dna. That's it. Then he tells you how it got there...there's records to back up what he says, there's nothing else at all proving what he says isn't true,(the "confession" was a lie) yet he gets convicted. EXCEPT....that jury was hung. It was hung twice, and if not for the machinations of the prosection team it would have stayed that way.Cause there was enough reasonable doubt to sink a ship!!And any reasonable person can see that.
But, now I can think of some people in this case who lied, and lied under oath. Is that a crime? Lied to a Grand Jury. Is that a crime? Yes or no. Oh, I forgot, they just "changed stories".
A witness was "fed" information by the police..is that allowed?
I geuss it's ok as long as it happens to some other poor schmuck and not you.
FREE CHRIS MCCOWEN
This place wanted to convict someone and they made sure it happened. Just because of dna. That's it. Then he tells you how it got there...there's records to back up what he says, there's nothing else at all proving what he says isn't true,(the "confession" was a lie) yet he gets convicted. EXCEPT....that jury was hung. It was hung twice, and if not for the machinations of the prosection team it would have stayed that way.Cause there was enough reasonable doubt to sink a ship!!And any reasonable person can see that.
But, now I can think of some people in this case who lied, and lied under oath. Is that a crime? Lied to a Grand Jury. Is that a crime? Yes or no. Oh, I forgot, they just "changed stories".
A witness was "fed" information by the police..is that allowed?
I geuss it's ok as long as it happens to some other poor schmuck and not you.
FREE CHRIS MCCOWEN
bittersweet [Member] writes:
And , by the way, no one is trashing CW. YOU have trashed someone and thrown him behind bars in that rat-trap, just because you could.
YOU always say, "where's the proof it was consensual, where's the phone calls,dozen roses, etc."
Well, it seems to me that when she asked him to come remove her tree, that was an invitation.OK? Can you take that without fainting?
And, as far as dating men...what's the problem with that?
YOU always want to say, "Oh, she would never..." Yeah, well maybe she would. And maybe she did. And you just can't stand that, can you?
ALL of you. That's what you can't stand, isn't it?
And you're perfectly happy to let Chris rot in there because of it!
Shame on you. You have no conscience, and if you do, you need to examine it. Because this horrible injustice is just going to go on forever until you do.
YOU always say, "where's the proof it was consensual, where's the phone calls,dozen roses, etc."
Well, it seems to me that when she asked him to come remove her tree, that was an invitation.OK? Can you take that without fainting?
And, as far as dating men...what's the problem with that?
YOU always want to say, "Oh, she would never..." Yeah, well maybe she would. And maybe she did. And you just can't stand that, can you?
ALL of you. That's what you can't stand, isn't it?
And you're perfectly happy to let Chris rot in there because of it!
Shame on you. You have no conscience, and if you do, you need to examine it. Because this horrible injustice is just going to go on forever until you do.
bittersweet [Member] writes:
For Buzz...from court tv:regarding the dna on her breast:
it was DNA collected within Ava's saliva. That is why all the reports - even from people watching the trial - said "in saliva". NO, it was not HIS saliva - Ava's saliva was carrying CMc's DNA. From skin, if you say so. This "skin" was not sitting alone on some dry spot on her breast.
Still, I think it is possible that Ava brought that small amount of DNA from the living room - where he claims he was on Thursday. Ava was all over her mother trying to nurse, so having it deposited there by her would be certainly possible.
I really doubt they checked the living room for DNA. too bad. [/*]
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it was DNA collected within Ava's saliva. That is why all the reports - even from people watching the trial - said "in saliva". NO, it was not HIS saliva - Ava's saliva was carrying CMc's DNA. From skin, if you say so. This "skin" was not sitting alone on some dry spot on her breast.
Still, I think it is possible that Ava brought that small amount of DNA from the living room - where he claims he was on Thursday. Ava was all over her mother trying to nurse, so having it deposited there by her would be certainly possible.
I really doubt they checked the living room for DNA. too bad. [/*]
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Buzz [Member] writes:
"Lemire also said sperm material taken from Worthington’s vagina matched McCowen’s DNA.
Lemire also testified that the saliva-type DNA found on Worthington’s right breast would likely be washed off if the person took a shower.
Lemire said Jeremy Frazier, Tim Arnold, Tony Jackett and Keith Amato did not match the DNA found on Worthington’s right breast and in her vagina"
Sorry bitter, please show me where it says it came from Ava?
Lemire also testified that the saliva-type DNA found on Worthington’s right breast would likely be washed off if the person took a shower.
Lemire said Jeremy Frazier, Tim Arnold, Tony Jackett and Keith Amato did not match the DNA found on Worthington’s right breast and in her vagina"
Sorry bitter, please show me where it says it came from Ava?
bittersweet [Member] writes:
I don't know...I'm quoting from a poster on court tv. And it says Chris's dna on her breast was IN Ava's saliva. And also that Ava had been in and out of the living room, and could have easily transmitted some of his dna, since that was where he says they had sex. But we will never know, because they didn't dna test the living room. (did they?)But anyone can go to court tv and watch parts of the trial. I hear it's very interesting to watch without the emotional craze.
And what does that qoute about the shower have to do with anything? Are you saying it's impossibe that she didn't shower from Thursday on? How would you know that? And what's so strange about it?
And no one is disputing that his dna was found in her. We are disputing that he raped and murdered her! And all you can ever say is "Prove it was consensual sex." No, YOU prove he committed rape and murder!!
And since you brought up the name, and since you guys always bring up Chris's rap sheet, have you any idea what Frazier's rap sheet looks like? Stabbing a tourist with a knife is on it. Has some practice with it, huh?
And what does that qoute about the shower have to do with anything? Are you saying it's impossibe that she didn't shower from Thursday on? How would you know that? And what's so strange about it?
And no one is disputing that his dna was found in her. We are disputing that he raped and murdered her! And all you can ever say is "Prove it was consensual sex." No, YOU prove he committed rape and murder!!
And since you brought up the name, and since you guys always bring up Chris's rap sheet, have you any idea what Frazier's rap sheet looks like? Stabbing a tourist with a knife is on it. Has some practice with it, huh?
crusader [Member] writes:
Listen to BG's closing E.White's audio (link is on my last blog in comments)
Few comments he made worth closer examination:
Was SM's father home the weekend in question? The DA's office can retrieve easily: RMV records, cell phone, landline records, fingerprint cards--"very hard for you or I to obtain. NOT MY JOB TO FIND OUT WHO DID THIS CRIME. Presumption lies on govt. to provide the evidence beyond a resonable doubt--THEY FAILED TO DO SO"
....Welsh is 3rd generation to make judgeship on lower cape & publicity, the DA's re-election was built on this case. Book deals, movie deals, HBO deals, media broadcasts, who is this story about anyway? Who is profiting from this tragedy? I can tell you I'm doing this for free, just in search for the truth--my only motive, from the very beginning, summer of 02', while working in Wellfleet, how it all began for me. Couldn't stand to hear the comments by locals, "she got what she deserved, she had it coming..." What? how can anyone say those things? BG said, "only time people care is when it happens to one of their own"..
Few comments he made worth closer examination:
Was SM's father home the weekend in question? The DA's office can retrieve easily: RMV records, cell phone, landline records, fingerprint cards--"very hard for you or I to obtain. NOT MY JOB TO FIND OUT WHO DID THIS CRIME. Presumption lies on govt. to provide the evidence beyond a resonable doubt--THEY FAILED TO DO SO"
....Welsh is 3rd generation to make judgeship on lower cape & publicity, the DA's re-election was built on this case. Book deals, movie deals, HBO deals, media broadcasts, who is this story about anyway? Who is profiting from this tragedy? I can tell you I'm doing this for free, just in search for the truth--my only motive, from the very beginning, summer of 02', while working in Wellfleet, how it all began for me. Couldn't stand to hear the comments by locals, "she got what she deserved, she had it coming..." What? how can anyone say those things? BG said, "only time people care is when it happens to one of their own"..
crusader [Member] writes:
my boss in Wellfleet said, "the kid was asleep". I felt he knew more, but would not say, obviously there was an undercurrent of deep hatred towards CW brewing for time on lower cape. She was a city girl, confident in her abilities, maybe crossed a few lines in her personal life. BG said he believed she was killed on Sat., Jan.05,02'. I'm inclined to believe that as well. It fits unlike Fri. scenario painted by the DA's office. Was CM there? NO. We heard from Welsh, he drove alone to & from Bilbo's house afterparty, left early. We know JF was looking for girly action, he said this on the stand. Maybe JF & co., went to CW's & it fell apart from there. Maybe it was just staged to look as if JF did this & was someone else. A conspiracy theory is very difficult to prove, so RD was the only card BG had to play. Was it a drug cartel & CW was initiating a had of poker & was holding a full house? Don't know. But think about what we do know. There was MORE evidence at that house that was UNTESTED, why? DC in charge of evidence, unassigned to case but snooping around.
crusader [Member] writes:
Saturday Fits:
PW heard a woman yelling, "stop!, stop", around same time GS say the mystery van driver 1-3pm, Sat.
The DA's office had to make the evidence fit...BG says this time and time again. It was the only way to frame CM for this crime.
Listen to EW's audios of trial, after all this time, it now makes more sense.
Why did GS say he recognized the black van driver at the trial, but didn't come forward with this information? These clues are essential to solving this case, but like what we see in the news everyday that is reflective of this one--careers are built on prosecuting criminals...bottom line.
PW heard a woman yelling, "stop!, stop", around same time GS say the mystery van driver 1-3pm, Sat.
The DA's office had to make the evidence fit...BG says this time and time again. It was the only way to frame CM for this crime.
Listen to EW's audios of trial, after all this time, it now makes more sense.
Why did GS say he recognized the black van driver at the trial, but didn't come forward with this information? These clues are essential to solving this case, but like what we see in the news everyday that is reflective of this one--careers are built on prosecuting criminals...bottom line.
crusader [Member] writes:
.....and more and more, we are seeing minorities being prosecuted for crimes they have not committed. Does CM have a clean record....NO, he doesn't. Why do you think they got this case to stick? He was the perfect fall guy. Why was JF hanging around DM, a known murderer who spent 10 yrs. in Walpole state prison for the beheading/severing of hands of a 21 yr. old man? DM was released 6 months prior to the murder. JF, DM & SM worked for Magnum Movers, as well as CM. It was in the works for some time, but why did it take them 39 months to arrest CM? They had everything they needed from the beginning. Doesn't make sense. Not LE incompetence--it was intentional, for exact reasons, we don't know. Maybe many people fell upon this crime scene over the weekend and were in fear of being implicated. You've got to look at ALL angles. In this case, DNA worked against an innocent man, and allowed the real killer(s) to remain free. ALL evidence needs to be reviewed. Why was it hidden from the public. If not for BG's outstanding defense, none of this would have been told.
bittersweet [Member] writes:
Amen to all that crusader...how did this ever turn from the prosection having to prove it's case to George having to prove Chris's innocence?
This is the most heart-breaking thing I've ever seen. For everyone involve.
And sorry you who always just wanted this to go away, what are we on this Earth for?
Either live on your feet or die on you knees.(or however that goes)
Chris is innocent. The "defenders of the law" are protecting the guilty.
You OK with that?
This is the most heart-breaking thing I've ever seen. For everyone involve.
And sorry you who always just wanted this to go away, what are we on this Earth for?
Either live on your feet or die on you knees.(or however that goes)
Chris is innocent. The "defenders of the law" are protecting the guilty.
You OK with that?
crusader [Member] writes:
yes, bittersweet..BG, when addressing the jury said these words that now must sting:
"Jurors, you promised to look at this case with a CRITICAL eye...this case is not that simple."
So, my next question is, did the jurors (-3) make a commitment to sit & judge with prejudice, when they swore under oath, not to. The Cape is remote, having a small population of minorities. The news always displays the stereotype --minorities who committ crimes, living in an area with majority of white can keep people ignorant of the truth. It's not their fault, it's the way it is in certain places that are isolated from the mainstream diverse population. How many white-collar crimes do we NOT see in the news vs. those of poor, drug infested neighborhoods. The drug war starts at the top--not the bottom. Get your drug lords behind bars, stop the LE corruption, then you don't have these problems. People at the top making money off those who are vulnerable & less forunate. Same goes for the Cape. They have challenges in their economy. Maybe drugs are a way to make another income.
"Jurors, you promised to look at this case with a CRITICAL eye...this case is not that simple."
So, my next question is, did the jurors (-3) make a commitment to sit & judge with prejudice, when they swore under oath, not to. The Cape is remote, having a small population of minorities. The news always displays the stereotype --minorities who committ crimes, living in an area with majority of white can keep people ignorant of the truth. It's not their fault, it's the way it is in certain places that are isolated from the mainstream diverse population. How many white-collar crimes do we NOT see in the news vs. those of poor, drug infested neighborhoods. The drug war starts at the top--not the bottom. Get your drug lords behind bars, stop the LE corruption, then you don't have these problems. People at the top making money off those who are vulnerable & less forunate. Same goes for the Cape. They have challenges in their economy. Maybe drugs are a way to make another income.
crusader [Member] writes:
Look at the story in the paper this week of the two Boston officers who are now facing jail time for the cocaine shipment exposed by the FBI. There was mention of govt. involvement. These two officers are not white, one hispanic, the other black. Who else was involved? Were they set up too, fall guys? You have to think of the bigger picture here, will all that's been going on in the headlines, U.S. attorneys, DA's, Duke Case....someone is always made to take the fall, why not the real perpetrators of these crimes? We are being fed a bunch of BS, and maybe now in the world of Blogs--some truths will finally come out.
Buzz [Member] writes:
bittersweet,
If your going to post information about the crime, please do a little better than to post something that was posted on a court TV blog site and pass it off as evidence. It really exposes serious flaws in your argument.
I don't have to "prove" he commited murder and rape, that was done in a court of law by a jury of his peers. He's convicted and spending the rest of his life in jail. However, I believe in the justice system and if he's awarded a mis-trial or re-trial, I can live with that.
If your going to post information about the crime, please do a little better than to post something that was posted on a court TV blog site and pass it off as evidence. It really exposes serious flaws in your argument.
I don't have to "prove" he commited murder and rape, that was done in a court of law by a jury of his peers. He's convicted and spending the rest of his life in jail. However, I believe in the justice system and if he's awarded a mis-trial or re-trial, I can live with that.
bittersweet [Member] writes:
I never said it was evidence, did I? Don't think so. You asked a question, and I answered it the best I can.
I'm not a lawyer making and argument. Obviously!
But, I do know Chris, and know he would never do this....so I just have to do the best I can with the information that's out there.
And that's enough fot a lifetime.
Honest to god, people are going to look at this and think the whole place was under some kind of hypnotic mind control.
Because it's so OBVIOUS what they did to connive this whole thing, but you have to be willing to see it.
And if he is awarded a mis-trial, what of the people who perpetrated it? Do they get to go on as if nothing happened?
Well,all I can say is I hope with all my might everyday that this will be over, and Chris can get the hell out of that dungeon of evil that your enforcers put him in.
Who will pay him back for that? Or Ava for losing her mommy? No-one, that's who. They're all just soaking up the sun in Florida from the sounds of it.
Thank you crusader for that and all the great info.
I'm not a lawyer making and argument. Obviously!
But, I do know Chris, and know he would never do this....so I just have to do the best I can with the information that's out there.
And that's enough fot a lifetime.
Honest to god, people are going to look at this and think the whole place was under some kind of hypnotic mind control.
Because it's so OBVIOUS what they did to connive this whole thing, but you have to be willing to see it.
And if he is awarded a mis-trial, what of the people who perpetrated it? Do they get to go on as if nothing happened?
Well,all I can say is I hope with all my might everyday that this will be over, and Chris can get the hell out of that dungeon of evil that your enforcers put him in.
Who will pay him back for that? Or Ava for losing her mommy? No-one, that's who. They're all just soaking up the sun in Florida from the sounds of it.
Thank you crusader for that and all the great info.
crusader [Member] writes:
Buzz,
Try looking at the missing pieces of this puzzle, rather than what's been told by the DA's office that didn't have a case, & had to fabricate one, all the way to a manipulated verdict of guilty.
There are too many unanswered questions. Others had more motive to kill CW--CM had no motive.
What about ALL the evidence that was untested? Hairs, fingerprints, DNA of 3 separate males found under her fingernails, blood stains, footprint on door, palm print on the door, other semen found on her leg....Welsh mentions her foot was "propped" under the bookcase...was that a slip? I say it was a staged crime scene & someone in LE with much experience in evidence knew what to do with this place. Someone saw a cruiser parked outside her house on night in question...maybe they just roughed her up, went back later to finish her off...who knows the truth, if the public is not allowed to know all the FACTS of this case, along with the EVIDENCE. It's been said time & time again by locals that she was involved with LE--if so, all they say is subject to question.
Try looking at the missing pieces of this puzzle, rather than what's been told by the DA's office that didn't have a case, & had to fabricate one, all the way to a manipulated verdict of guilty.
There are too many unanswered questions. Others had more motive to kill CW--CM had no motive.
What about ALL the evidence that was untested? Hairs, fingerprints, DNA of 3 separate males found under her fingernails, blood stains, footprint on door, palm print on the door, other semen found on her leg....Welsh mentions her foot was "propped" under the bookcase...was that a slip? I say it was a staged crime scene & someone in LE with much experience in evidence knew what to do with this place. Someone saw a cruiser parked outside her house on night in question...maybe they just roughed her up, went back later to finish her off...who knows the truth, if the public is not allowed to know all the FACTS of this case, along with the EVIDENCE. It's been said time & time again by locals that she was involved with LE--if so, all they say is subject to question.
crusader [Member] writes:
....also been told that Truro LE did not provide their DNA samples. Why not? It is standard procedure in order to eliminate LE who are handling the scene of the crime, but in this case--there is reason to believe someone in LE was INVOLVED.
Buzz [Member] writes:
The two of you have so much more information than the defense attorney, maybe you can defend him if there's a re-trial. Let's see what happens to all your allegations, theories and "alleged" witnesses.
Buzz [Member] writes:
crusader,
Wouldn't that alone be enough for a re-trial? Check your facts....once again.
Wouldn't that alone be enough for a re-trial? Check your facts....once again.
crusader [Member] writes:
Buzz,
What? LE involvement with victim?
Yes, but hard to prove if you don't have the officers DNA, don't ya think, Buzzy?
What? LE involvement with victim?
Yes, but hard to prove if you don't have the officers DNA, don't ya think, Buzzy?
crusader [Member] writes:
...an acqaintance, local, neighbor of CW said:
"I told the members of the DNA sweep-team I would submit my DNA ONLY when the Truro LE submit their own DNA."
Later, I went back to ask if they were willing to say more-response was:
"I really can't say more. This is a very small town, you know how it is."
"Yes, I do", I replied politely, & dropped it. So, there is just one example of the FEAR that is placed on the locals NOT TO COME FORWARD with what they may know. How else to explain that comment?
As far as "musical beds" in small towns--who cares....except that it may shed some light to the last series of events that occurred prior to the murder. BG said, "I didn't put those 10 witnesses up on the stand because it would have ruined their lives". Maybe that was one reason not to press on, maybe the drug trafficking would be revealed, or other sorted details. But not knowing leads to unreliable speculation which convicted an innocent man. Ask the writer why she told the DA of CW's lifestyle...people who throw stones..maybe her own personal reasons.
"I told the members of the DNA sweep-team I would submit my DNA ONLY when the Truro LE submit their own DNA."
Later, I went back to ask if they were willing to say more-response was:
"I really can't say more. This is a very small town, you know how it is."
"Yes, I do", I replied politely, & dropped it. So, there is just one example of the FEAR that is placed on the locals NOT TO COME FORWARD with what they may know. How else to explain that comment?
As far as "musical beds" in small towns--who cares....except that it may shed some light to the last series of events that occurred prior to the murder. BG said, "I didn't put those 10 witnesses up on the stand because it would have ruined their lives". Maybe that was one reason not to press on, maybe the drug trafficking would be revealed, or other sorted details. But not knowing leads to unreliable speculation which convicted an innocent man. Ask the writer why she told the DA of CW's lifestyle...people who throw stones..maybe her own personal reasons.
Buzz [Member] writes:
Are you telling me crusader that "you" went down and where questioning neighbors of CW's?
crusader [Member] writes:
NO- this person volunteered this information to me. I won't say how we met, because this person could be "black-balled", like others who have come forward with information about this case. I've learned it's best to keep anonymity due to some unpleasant experiences I've had since I began to blog about this story. There are people involved that don't want to be "talked about", that try to find out who we are. TOO FREAKIN' BAD--a woman is dead--every stone should be uncovered in order to find the truth. Some people involved should not be allowed exemption. My involvement in writing about this story was all very innocent. People felt comfortable sharing with me. I would hope the readers understand I have no agenda--unlike others, including writers with book deals. I see MF & PM as literary ambulance chasers with axes to grind...one over the victim, the other with those involved. Not good reasons to write books. The truth is priority. It amazes me how many people are connected by relation, employment, etc. It is a very small place in that regard.
Buzz [Member] writes:
I think it's time you came forward and started "naming" these people you think are involved. The truth will set you free...until then, you're beating a dead horse.
bittersweet [Member] writes:
cw2;
I'm sure you won't answer this, but are you saying CM did something to you? Or that his buddy did? (And JF was not his buddy)
And who are "woman like us"?
And before you just get angry, and dismiss me as you always do, Know this;
I was molested at five years old, have been raped four times in my adult life, and was in an abusive marriage.
I am the biggest bitch in the world at going after men who abuse women and children.
But Chris is not one of them, this I know. You don't have to accept that, but it's true.
And having been subject to the worst kind of insinuations on this board, and you were one of them, it kind of rings a little hollow that you get upset when people speak about things you don't like.
And, as someone who has also been vilontly treated, i want to see the real perpetrators get their punishment, not someone they set up as their patsy.
So, we should all be on the same side here, as crusader said...to get to the truth.
Enough innocent people have suffered. Time for the guilty ones to.
I'm sure you won't answer this, but are you saying CM did something to you? Or that his buddy did? (And JF was not his buddy)
And who are "woman like us"?
And before you just get angry, and dismiss me as you always do, Know this;
I was molested at five years old, have been raped four times in my adult life, and was in an abusive marriage.
I am the biggest bitch in the world at going after men who abuse women and children.
But Chris is not one of them, this I know. You don't have to accept that, but it's true.
And having been subject to the worst kind of insinuations on this board, and you were one of them, it kind of rings a little hollow that you get upset when people speak about things you don't like.
And, as someone who has also been vilontly treated, i want to see the real perpetrators get their punishment, not someone they set up as their patsy.
So, we should all be on the same side here, as crusader said...to get to the truth.
Enough innocent people have suffered. Time for the guilty ones to.
crusader [Member] writes:
Buzz,
You will have to go back and do the research yourself, until the truth comes out at a new trial, or otherwise, my allegiance is to the innocents of this story: CW, her child, & CM. The truth should be revealed in a court of law, all would agree, not for me to speculate--we already see the damage that has done to CM's fate. This case needs a re-investigation through proper channels.
There was a rumor that Crimenews2000 CW thread was in danger of being shut down by some who didn't like what locals had to say about them. What gives them the right? If a site is there for posters to have discussion, why are they bullying those who are in search for the truth about such a brutal crime! You have to ask yourself that question--what do they have to hide?
You will have to go back and do the research yourself, until the truth comes out at a new trial, or otherwise, my allegiance is to the innocents of this story: CW, her child, & CM. The truth should be revealed in a court of law, all would agree, not for me to speculate--we already see the damage that has done to CM's fate. This case needs a re-investigation through proper channels.
There was a rumor that Crimenews2000 CW thread was in danger of being shut down by some who didn't like what locals had to say about them. What gives them the right? If a site is there for posters to have discussion, why are they bullying those who are in search for the truth about such a brutal crime! You have to ask yourself that question--what do they have to hide?
Buzz [Member] writes:
bittersweet,
How can you remain credible? You say "I am the biggest bitch in the world at going after men who abuse woman" What about the 5 restraining orders from 5 different women that CM had against him. What a hypocrite.
crusader, rumor, rumor, rumor....get's a little tiring. Stand-up and be counted....come forward wiht some evidence and release the names???
How can you remain credible? You say "I am the biggest bitch in the world at going after men who abuse woman" What about the 5 restraining orders from 5 different women that CM had against him. What a hypocrite.
crusader, rumor, rumor, rumor....get's a little tiring. Stand-up and be counted....come forward wiht some evidence and release the names???
cw2 [Member] writes:
Any and all sordid details defamizing CW and exposing all the nasty crime on CC are welcome on CCToday's 'Big, Black, and Buff' Blog.
Bitter, I didn't need to know, but it explains much about you. You have my pity. Get into counseling.
The criminal rap sheet is no surprise; stop crying, bitter, he's used to it, and it's not a hell hole. You clearly have watched too much CTV.
Crusader, you also need some serious help with your BBB obsession.
However, I do not believe I will be hiring Magnum Movers when I move off CC. Thanks for the tip.
Btw, that was me screaming, 'Stop, stop!'
Not just at CM2, but now at you and bitter.
I reiterate, LE and the courts and a 209A are a safe bet.
Try to control your bbb obsessions unless you are willing to come forward with anything other than your misinformed, distorted allegations.
Now, I am busy removing all those condoms stuck in my septic from having sex with every garbage man and LE official on CC, so that you don't do to me what you are doing to CW and her family.
You are giving CC a very bad name.
Bitter, I didn't need to know, but it explains much about you. You have my pity. Get into counseling.
The criminal rap sheet is no surprise; stop crying, bitter, he's used to it, and it's not a hell hole. You clearly have watched too much CTV.
Crusader, you also need some serious help with your BBB obsession.
However, I do not believe I will be hiring Magnum Movers when I move off CC. Thanks for the tip.
Btw, that was me screaming, 'Stop, stop!'
Not just at CM2, but now at you and bitter.
I reiterate, LE and the courts and a 209A are a safe bet.
Try to control your bbb obsessions unless you are willing to come forward with anything other than your misinformed, distorted allegations.
Now, I am busy removing all those condoms stuck in my septic from having sex with every garbage man and LE official on CC, so that you don't do to me what you are doing to CW and her family.
You are giving CC a very bad name.
crusader [Member] writes:
cw2,
Sorry you feel that way....interesting what you said about your dear cousin, at the trial, "she was not very discriminate about the men she chose to be with"...so WHO IS defaming her character? If you really cared, you would allow all the FACTS about this case to be out in the open. I have always maintained that CW was led down the dark path, that she didn't bring this on herself--but there are those in this case who have done just that. Why not go bully them? I for one, would like to know why CW chose the Chase's to raise her daughter instead of other options. Can you answer that one?
I'm wondering just why JC has written this blog....are they fishing again? Trying to find out what we know? Who we are? Slippery slopes all over the place...one bitten, twice shy.
Sorry you feel that way....interesting what you said about your dear cousin, at the trial, "she was not very discriminate about the men she chose to be with"...so WHO IS defaming her character? If you really cared, you would allow all the FACTS about this case to be out in the open. I have always maintained that CW was led down the dark path, that she didn't bring this on herself--but there are those in this case who have done just that. Why not go bully them? I for one, would like to know why CW chose the Chase's to raise her daughter instead of other options. Can you answer that one?
I'm wondering just why JC has written this blog....are they fishing again? Trying to find out what we know? Who we are? Slippery slopes all over the place...one bitten, twice shy.
crusader [Member] writes:
CW2,
As far as obsessions go....I don't know exactly why I've kept up with it, quite frankly, let's just say I have an acute perception and this case happens to be one of those stories that rings--CORRUPT & EVIL. I don't like people taking advantage of my kindness and support. I don't like to see innocent people hurt. I don't like to see women brutally murdered leaving orphan children to wonder what really happened to their mother, only to be left with a legacy of book deals distorting the facts, a DA that doesn't know his job, and an island that has been silenced. If you truly are who you say you are, you should be fighting for the truth, for the sake of your beloved neice & island you claim I am condemning. I guess you are working on shutting CCToday down now, and failed at shutting down Crimenews2000. Are you alone in this crusade, or do you have cohorts? Now, if you'll excuse me, I have to get back to my obsession.
FREEDOM OF SPEECH is a wonderful thing....censoring innocent citizens in search of the truth is not.
As far as obsessions go....I don't know exactly why I've kept up with it, quite frankly, let's just say I have an acute perception and this case happens to be one of those stories that rings--CORRUPT & EVIL. I don't like people taking advantage of my kindness and support. I don't like to see innocent people hurt. I don't like to see women brutally murdered leaving orphan children to wonder what really happened to their mother, only to be left with a legacy of book deals distorting the facts, a DA that doesn't know his job, and an island that has been silenced. If you truly are who you say you are, you should be fighting for the truth, for the sake of your beloved neice & island you claim I am condemning. I guess you are working on shutting CCToday down now, and failed at shutting down Crimenews2000. Are you alone in this crusade, or do you have cohorts? Now, if you'll excuse me, I have to get back to my obsession.
FREEDOM OF SPEECH is a wonderful thing....censoring innocent citizens in search of the truth is not.
bittersweet [Member] writes:
Yes-god bless America...what's left of it.
And Walpole is not a hellhole? I may need counseling, but you need a reality check!!
And I too have a hard time believing she's who she says, unless her family has a habit of saying GTFOUH to people they don't know.
And as for giving Cape Cod a bad name...where to start?
Even though you poo-poo'ed it, court tv has some real smart people on it. And believe me, it's not the people who question what happened that are giving Cape Cod a bad name. It's the apologists for anything the authorities say, even though it flies in the face of reason.
And allowing the crap to go on because we can never admit a mistake!
And, of course the sad,old,tired response of "you don't like it, leave", or "you're lucky to be here", so shut up
All I can say is watch the trial. You will be saying wtf a lot. It's available on court tv, at least parts of it.
I will never watch it because I don't like throwing up.
And Walpole is not a hellhole? I may need counseling, but you need a reality check!!
And I too have a hard time believing she's who she says, unless her family has a habit of saying GTFOUH to people they don't know.
And as for giving Cape Cod a bad name...where to start?
Even though you poo-poo'ed it, court tv has some real smart people on it. And believe me, it's not the people who question what happened that are giving Cape Cod a bad name. It's the apologists for anything the authorities say, even though it flies in the face of reason.
And allowing the crap to go on because we can never admit a mistake!
And, of course the sad,old,tired response of "you don't like it, leave", or "you're lucky to be here", so shut up
All I can say is watch the trial. You will be saying wtf a lot. It's available on court tv, at least parts of it.
I will never watch it because I don't like throwing up.
bittersweet [Member] writes:
And Buzz,
I believe I mentioned this a long time ago, but I was there during 2 of those orders, and they were bogus. And I remember,as someone who had been abused, being very angry that they put those restaining orders on him. He had done no harm. And this was a case of the police pushing them to do it.
So, as far as the others, I don't know, but knowing what i do makes me very suspect.
And if you and cw2 keep pushing this whole criminal past issue, it is seriously going to bite you in the butt.
You'd better look at who else is involved here before you cast too many stones.
I believe I mentioned this a long time ago, but I was there during 2 of those orders, and they were bogus. And I remember,as someone who had been abused, being very angry that they put those restaining orders on him. He had done no harm. And this was a case of the police pushing them to do it.
So, as far as the others, I don't know, but knowing what i do makes me very suspect.
And if you and cw2 keep pushing this whole criminal past issue, it is seriously going to bite you in the butt.
You'd better look at who else is involved here before you cast too many stones.
cw2 [Member] writes:
CCToday/Editors/JC:
JC, good question: why did you post this?
My guess is to get a reaction, which you did.
Whomever this crusader-paranoid-BBB-obsessed freak is insinuating I am proves the extraordinarily delusional clinical pathology of this commenter.
The offensive of this Blog is now beyond repute.
Most of us, if you haven't noticed -- other than bitter and crusader -- have no interest in their BBB pornographic fantasies they post on CCToday.
If the princely, career-criminal, but oh-so BBB CM is released back into society, he knows which two are waiting for him.
I am trying to get CM2 back into prison, where he has spent most of his life for abusing women. He belongs back in Walpole or any of the other MCIs he's been privileged to be a resident of. They don't even have to work.
Hell-hole? Massachusetts prisons are a revolving-door cakewalk for career criminals; why do you think they always return?
You have lost yet another reader.
You are just too offensive.
Ellery Queen novel. JC...
JC, good question: why did you post this?
My guess is to get a reaction, which you did.
Whomever this crusader-paranoid-BBB-obsessed freak is insinuating I am proves the extraordinarily delusional clinical pathology of this commenter.
The offensive of this Blog is now beyond repute.
Most of us, if you haven't noticed -- other than bitter and crusader -- have no interest in their BBB pornographic fantasies they post on CCToday.
If the princely, career-criminal, but oh-so BBB CM is released back into society, he knows which two are waiting for him.
I am trying to get CM2 back into prison, where he has spent most of his life for abusing women. He belongs back in Walpole or any of the other MCIs he's been privileged to be a resident of. They don't even have to work.
Hell-hole? Massachusetts prisons are a revolving-door cakewalk for career criminals; why do you think they always return?
You have lost yet another reader.
You are just too offensive.
Ellery Queen novel. JC...
Buzz [Member] writes:
Sounds like he's been a victim for a very long time....must be the big and black thing. Criminal in the past thing....bite me in the butt....I don't think so...tell me, and I'm sorry it happend to you, how does someone get raped 4 times? Maybe it was "false" information and the person(s) that did it were set up? You know, like CM.
bittersweet [Member] writes:
Figures you would make light of it, as your friends around here make light of children being sexually abused...who is offensive?
I got raped 4 times because I asked for it, you know?
You know, just like CW "deserved what she got".
Your attitude fits this crime buzz, although I suspect it was you who were turned down by CW, and that explains your absolute hatred of CM.
It will be a good day when all this comes to a head...cause it's going to, and people are going to see "the real Cape Cod", and it's not going to be pretty.
You really ought to be ashamed of yourself, but we already know you have no conscience or sense of right and wrong.
I got raped 4 times because I asked for it, you know?
You know, just like CW "deserved what she got".
Your attitude fits this crime buzz, although I suspect it was you who were turned down by CW, and that explains your absolute hatred of CM.
It will be a good day when all this comes to a head...cause it's going to, and people are going to see "the real Cape Cod", and it's not going to be pretty.
You really ought to be ashamed of yourself, but we already know you have no conscience or sense of right and wrong.
Buzz [Member] writes:
I have no idea of who "my friends" are that make light of children being abused. But you just make-up anything you want, you have no credibility and I really question your motivations. In addition to being a convicted murderer, your friend CM has been an abuser of women, a burglar and a car thief. Am I missing anything? But you continue to tell us that he's the victim and such a nice guy.
bob [Member] writes:
I asked it a number of times and I will ask again and if the answer is clear, I will stop thinking/saying that CM is innocent.
What factual reasoning is there that put CM in jail?
He has been convicted of 1st degree murder with no clear motive, no weapon and no witnesses that claim he killed anyone with premeditation, has been convicted of 1st degree rape when an expert explained on the stand there was no proof of forced sex and he was convicted of 1st degree burglary and nothing of hers was found on him, in his apartment or connected to him out on the streets. How does any of this make sense?
What factual reasoning is there that put CM in jail?
He has been convicted of 1st degree murder with no clear motive, no weapon and no witnesses that claim he killed anyone with premeditation, has been convicted of 1st degree rape when an expert explained on the stand there was no proof of forced sex and he was convicted of 1st degree burglary and nothing of hers was found on him, in his apartment or connected to him out on the streets. How does any of this make sense?
clamshelli [Visitor] writes:
Thank you Bob. Good questions...in a nutshell. That is the story.
clamshelli [Visitor] writes:
Ya know....Ive always wondered about the burglary part. What was missing? Where did that come in? Ive heard rumors of a laptop....and maybe a diary...BUT those were just rumors. Maybe Im wrong, but what was taken from her house....does anyone remember hearing about that in the trial?
legalbeagle [Member] writes:
Bob,
Read his statements. If you can stand what he had to say.
And why the Motion to Dismiss was denied.
He did himself in. His details, his lies.
HIS STORY. HIS LIFE. HIS LIES. NO ONE ELSE'S.
Read his statements. If you can stand what he had to say.
And why the Motion to Dismiss was denied.
He did himself in. His details, his lies.
HIS STORY. HIS LIFE. HIS LIES. NO ONE ELSE'S.
clamshelli [Visitor] writes:
sorry legalbeagle.....but WHOS statement? The jury even threw that "statement" out.
legalbeagle [Member] writes:
A Motion to Dismiss.
Read it.
Watch the trial.
If you can stand any of it.
His exact details of the atrocious way she was raped and murdered, for what was supposed to be a b and e--McGowen's tears were those of a guilty man. Who regrets having to think about what he's done, which he now has plenty of time to do.
Get over it.
He and Frazier did it.
Frazier may have planned it, as the witness so stated, and has gotten away with the same crimes.
And Frazier belongs exactly where McGowen rightly is.
Do your research before you too turn into a Mansonite on on the B-B-B CCToday Blog.
Read it.
Watch the trial.
If you can stand any of it.
His exact details of the atrocious way she was raped and murdered, for what was supposed to be a b and e--McGowen's tears were those of a guilty man. Who regrets having to think about what he's done, which he now has plenty of time to do.
Get over it.
He and Frazier did it.
Frazier may have planned it, as the witness so stated, and has gotten away with the same crimes.
And Frazier belongs exactly where McGowen rightly is.
Do your research before you too turn into a Mansonite on on the B-B-B CCToday Blog.
clamshelli [Visitor] writes:
legalbeagle,
Since I am a woman who lives on the Outer Cape, I have followed this case from the day the murder happened. There was a cold blooded killer loose, and since this is such a small place, most of the names were familiar to me. Believe me, Ive done my "homework". I watched every minute of that trial. I wanted to feel safe again and know the killer was put away. What I saw in that courtroom shocked me. From the begining, that "statement' not taped. Written my "memory" days later - the question of that call from the State Police barracks that cause the well rehearsed Mason to turn ten shades of red. The jury threw out that "statement" because they "didnt believe CM would incriminate himself in that way" = LE lied. JF being "fed" what to say. A convicted murderer that supplied the cell phone - NOWHERE to be seen or even heard about. Oh, there is plenty more....Ive done my homework. You may think all the people on the Cape are that stupid and should just be happy to see this all go away, Sorry, its not. We are NOT safe here. The whole case was sham.
Since I am a woman who lives on the Outer Cape, I have followed this case from the day the murder happened. There was a cold blooded killer loose, and since this is such a small place, most of the names were familiar to me. Believe me, Ive done my "homework". I watched every minute of that trial. I wanted to feel safe again and know the killer was put away. What I saw in that courtroom shocked me. From the begining, that "statement' not taped. Written my "memory" days later - the question of that call from the State Police barracks that cause the well rehearsed Mason to turn ten shades of red. The jury threw out that "statement" because they "didnt believe CM would incriminate himself in that way" = LE lied. JF being "fed" what to say. A convicted murderer that supplied the cell phone - NOWHERE to be seen or even heard about. Oh, there is plenty more....Ive done my homework. You may think all the people on the Cape are that stupid and should just be happy to see this all go away, Sorry, its not. We are NOT safe here. The whole case was sham.
bittersweet [Member] writes:
Exactly, and all they ever do is insult people, rather than bother to answer the SIMPLE questions. And they are simple.
Which is the baffling part of this whole thing. What happened to make so many people lose their ability to reason?
You can definately hear the hatred of these people who write on ths blog...pure hatred of CM, and anyone who DARES to speak up for him. And the evilness of many of them.
And then, you think, "what is your problem?" "Why are you so un-hinged about this?"
Very strange.
But,hey...Why don't you go with Bob's questions, if you dare. And leave the false statement out of it.
He has been convicted of 1st degree murder with no clear motive, no weapon and no witnesses that claim he killed anyone with premeditation, has been convicted of 1st degree rape when an expert explained on the stand there was no proof of forced sex and he was convicted of 1st degree burglary and nothing of hers was found on him, in his apartment or connected to him out on the streets. How does any of this make sense?
Which is the baffling part of this whole thing. What happened to make so many people lose their ability to reason?
You can definately hear the hatred of these people who write on ths blog...pure hatred of CM, and anyone who DARES to speak up for him. And the evilness of many of them.
And then, you think, "what is your problem?" "Why are you so un-hinged about this?"
Very strange.
But,hey...Why don't you go with Bob's questions, if you dare. And leave the false statement out of it.
He has been convicted of 1st degree murder with no clear motive, no weapon and no witnesses that claim he killed anyone with premeditation, has been convicted of 1st degree rape when an expert explained on the stand there was no proof of forced sex and he was convicted of 1st degree burglary and nothing of hers was found on him, in his apartment or connected to him out on the streets. How does any of this make sense?
bittersweet [Member] writes:
Hundreds of prisoners have reported unrelenting sadistic harassment from the staff at MCI Cedar Junction. Staff repeatedly torment prisoners by contaminating their food with pubic hair, urine, spit and other offensive substances. This practice has become so common and traumatic, that many prisoners refuse to eat their food unless it comes pre-packaged. It has also led to suicide attempts and self-mutilation by prisoners. Staff will shake down cells of particular prisoners over and over, destroying their property, urinating on their mattresses, and stealing their personal items and legal documents. The various methods of psychological torture and harassment are too numerous to count, the staff at Cedar Junction seem to be very creative in their methods.
bittersweet [Member] writes:
The severity and number of beatings and retaliatory assaults inflicted by guards at MCI Cedar Junction far surpasses that at any other institution in Massachusetts. Prisoners are subject to arbitrary beatings in which broken bones, concussions, and hospital trips are not uncommon. Prisoners who take legal action against officers who assault them are then singled out for horrendous and interminable harassment and brutality. The fact that the section on brutality is the largest in this document attests to the gravity of situation in MCI Cedar Junction.
bittersweet [Member] writes:
Not such a bad place, eh cw2? Especially when you were sent there on false imprisonment.
Ah, but don't fret, as Judge Nickerson said,"You made the right decision. He has an automatic appeal."
2.5 years and counting.
Ah, but don't fret, as Judge Nickerson said,"You made the right decision. He has an automatic appeal."
2.5 years and counting.
Buzz [Member] writes:
"McCowen's DNA was found on Worthingtons breast, medical examiner said it would have come off if she showered"
susan [Member] writes:
Just think, if convicted murders in Walpole, committed the murders in Texas, they would be on Death Row. Someone pissing in their cherrios, would seem like a day at the Country Club.
legal_owl [Member] writes:
hey buzz...you have worn out that line
where did i hear that her tub was full of toys? was that in court or in the rumor mill?
where did i hear that her tub was full of toys? was that in court or in the rumor mill?
legal_owl [Member] writes:
hmmm susan...so based on the number of murder convictions and the number of executions in texas, do you think that the death penalty is a deterrent to murder?
is your statement implying that you think harassment and beatings and torture are okay if the victim is a convicted felon?
is your statement implying that you think harassment and beatings and torture are okay if the victim is a convicted felon?
Buzz [Member] writes:
legal_owl,
The "line" appears automatically every time bitter mentions "he's innocent". Sorry, beyond my control. Does the death penalty necessarily have to be a "deterrent"? Can't it just be the punishment?
The "line" appears automatically every time bitter mentions "he's innocent". Sorry, beyond my control. Does the death penalty necessarily have to be a "deterrent"? Can't it just be the punishment?
Buzz [Member] writes:
legal_owl,
I guess in Texas, it is a deterrent: "Within Texas, the most aggressive death penalty prosecutions are in Harris County (the Houston area). Since the resumption of executions in 1982, the annual number of Harris County murders has plummeted from 701 to 241 -- a 72 percent decrease."
I guess in Texas, it is a deterrent: "Within Texas, the most aggressive death penalty prosecutions are in Harris County (the Houston area). Since the resumption of executions in 1982, the annual number of Harris County murders has plummeted from 701 to 241 -- a 72 percent decrease."
legal_owl [Member] writes:
lol buzz
i understand the knee jerk reaction
as for punishment being the primary cause for executions, i prefer life and lots of time for regrets, if not remorse
i understand the knee jerk reaction
as for punishment being the primary cause for executions, i prefer life and lots of time for regrets, if not remorse
Buzz [Member] writes:
I also prefer life, as do the departed i"m sure.
clamshelli [Visitor] writes:
On the death penalty...I dont trust our judicial system enough to make that kind of decision. Even ONE mistake cannot be tolerated. This case is a perfect example of that. People just hate CM so much that if they could have fried him, they would. I just wish people could look at the TRIAL, and try to take HIM out of equation for a minute. I dont say CM is completely innocent here, I just say he isnt the killer. I am outraged by the trial itself.
legal_owl [Member] writes:
i don't have time to do a lengthy research project at the moment, but thanks for the info
makes me wonder what is happening statewide in those regards
more concerned with where bittersweet found what she posted
and even more interested in finding out if susan (or you, if you care to respond) thinks that it is ok to harass, beat and torture prisoners if they are convicted felons
what about if it is just someone that has been arrested and awaiting trial, is it still ok to harm these people?
makes me wonder what is happening statewide in those regards
more concerned with where bittersweet found what she posted
and even more interested in finding out if susan (or you, if you care to respond) thinks that it is ok to harass, beat and torture prisoners if they are convicted felons
what about if it is just someone that has been arrested and awaiting trial, is it still ok to harm these people?
susan [Member] writes:
Wow legal calm down. Not all of us sit here and stare at the screen with nothing better to do. Had I known you were waiting for my answer, I surely would have dropped everything for you ;)
Let me put it to you this way Legal, if my sister or daughter, had been murdered I would not have thought twice about having the murderer (s) and accomplices killed. If they tortured him first, all the better. How about you had it been your daughter? Say a few prayers for the murderer and call it even?
Let me put it to you this way Legal, if my sister or daughter, had been murdered I would not have thought twice about having the murderer (s) and accomplices killed. If they tortured him first, all the better. How about you had it been your daughter? Say a few prayers for the murderer and call it even?
bob [Member] writes:
"McCowen's DNA was found on Worthingtons breast, medical examiner said it would have come off if she showered"
So this proves she didn't shower. So? Are you associating this fact with his convictions and why he is in jail? I don't see how, if was an attempt to, this answers my questions. Does anyone have a logical, factual answer to any of them? legalbeagles answer is just the same as everyone else that claims he's guilty. Where does he say anywhere that he killed her? Accesory? Maybe, but again, where's the proof? Frazier still has some answering for this and when he is linked to it, then the truth will come out, IMO. He'll squeel like a pig.
So this proves she didn't shower. So? Are you associating this fact with his convictions and why he is in jail? I don't see how, if was an attempt to, this answers my questions. Does anyone have a logical, factual answer to any of them? legalbeagles answer is just the same as everyone else that claims he's guilty. Where does he say anywhere that he killed her? Accesory? Maybe, but again, where's the proof? Frazier still has some answering for this and when he is linked to it, then the truth will come out, IMO. He'll squeel like a pig.
clamshelli [Visitor] writes:
I agree Bob. My feeling is that there are quite a few people that have knowledge and are involved in this case. Things are getting hot and I think there is going to be a lot of "sqealing pigs" very soon. First squealer cuts the best deal. Its just a matter of time.
bittersweet [Member] writes:
Oink, Oink, Buzz?
legal_owl,just google cedar junction walpole and there are many sites. But, first you have to wade through the "official" spin.
And just for the record, anyone who promotes torture and murder is no better than the people who committ the original crime. What's the difference between you then?
legal_owl,just google cedar junction walpole and there are many sites. But, first you have to wade through the "official" spin.
And just for the record, anyone who promotes torture and murder is no better than the people who committ the original crime. What's the difference between you then?
legal_owl [Member] writes:
calm down? lol not excited yet
thank you for responding
you immediately assume things you know nothing about and voice them
you compound this with a view of your moral fiber, slightly warped in my opinion
so let's reverse the situation and determine if your answer would be the same or different
IF it were your brother or cousin or husband or lover incarcerated in a facility that is criticized as one of the worst in the MA DOC, and if YOU thought he were wrongly incarcerated, would it still be ok for the guards to harass and beat and torture him since he would then be a convicted felon? would he cease to be a human being at the time of incarceration?
thank you for responding
you immediately assume things you know nothing about and voice them
you compound this with a view of your moral fiber, slightly warped in my opinion
so let's reverse the situation and determine if your answer would be the same or different
IF it were your brother or cousin or husband or lover incarcerated in a facility that is criticized as one of the worst in the MA DOC, and if YOU thought he were wrongly incarcerated, would it still be ok for the guards to harass and beat and torture him since he would then be a convicted felon? would he cease to be a human being at the time of incarceration?
legal_owl [Member] writes:
thanks bitter
just thought you had quoted from a specific source
just thought you had quoted from a specific source
legal_owl [Member] writes:
hey bob,
i enjoy being devil's advocate
just can't take the other side in this instance
i agree wholeheartedly
you voiced my own opinion so well about this case
never have i seen it summed up quite so succinctly
i could elaborate on each of your points for pages and pages, but won't
i enjoy being devil's advocate
just can't take the other side in this instance
i agree wholeheartedly
you voiced my own opinion so well about this case
never have i seen it summed up quite so succinctly
i could elaborate on each of your points for pages and pages, but won't
Buzz [Member] writes:
Yeah legal, just do a google search and you can find out about the "torture" going on at Cedar Junction.
Pleazzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzze.
Pleazzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzze.
clamshelli [Visitor] writes:
Buzz, do you hate CM so much that you cant get past that? Can you actually look at the trial, and what happened there, and put your obvious hate for him aside...for one minute?
Buzz [Member] writes:
clamshelli,
I don't hate CM, I hate what he did. Do I have problems with some of the other players involved...absolutely. Do I think that CM conveniently showed up at CW's house and had consensual sex with her days before she was murdered? NO. Do I think he was involved...yes. Do I believe the cops who interviewed him when he told them of his involvement? YES. Do I think there's a big conspiracy...NO. Do I believe that OJ Simpson killed two people...YES. Do I believe in hearsay and some of the crap that people have made up on this blog about this case...NO
Tell me, can you "PROVE" to me that CM wasn't involved in her death?
I don't hate CM, I hate what he did. Do I have problems with some of the other players involved...absolutely. Do I think that CM conveniently showed up at CW's house and had consensual sex with her days before she was murdered? NO. Do I think he was involved...yes. Do I believe the cops who interviewed him when he told them of his involvement? YES. Do I think there's a big conspiracy...NO. Do I believe that OJ Simpson killed two people...YES. Do I believe in hearsay and some of the crap that people have made up on this blog about this case...NO
Tell me, can you "PROVE" to me that CM wasn't involved in her death?
Buzz [Member] writes:
Why do I keep bringing up the dna on her breast? Because I can't get past it. When the crime scene technicians gathered their evidence on that cold evening, they had no idea who CM was. To them, he wasn't black, white, big or small. He was the murderer of an innocent woman.
clamshelli [Visitor] writes:
Buzz,
Can I ask you one question? Can you explain that phone call....from the barracks? The call to DM/JF's cell phone....on the night the prosecution says the murder happened? Doesnt that call bother you at all? Why would someone in the State Police barracks be calling that cell phone? And would we ever know anything about DM the convicted killer of the headless - handless corpse, if BG didnt bring that out? Can you even guess why that call was made? I cant get past that, along with alot other stuff..but that one call hasnt been explained away by anyone. Can you?
Can I ask you one question? Can you explain that phone call....from the barracks? The call to DM/JF's cell phone....on the night the prosecution says the murder happened? Doesnt that call bother you at all? Why would someone in the State Police barracks be calling that cell phone? And would we ever know anything about DM the convicted killer of the headless - handless corpse, if BG didnt bring that out? Can you even guess why that call was made? I cant get past that, along with alot other stuff..but that one call hasnt been explained away by anyone. Can you?
clamshelli [Visitor] writes:
Buzz,
Believe me, I understand being stuck, because Im stuck on that phone call. But the DNA on the breast, just maybe she didnt shower....i dont see the big deal there. If you ever had a two year old, what do you do with a two year old while you take a shower? Its not easy, you just cant let them walk around the house while youre in the shower. And if youre lucky enough to get some time if they nap, you might just have other priorities. Is that so hard to understand?
Believe me, I understand being stuck, because Im stuck on that phone call. But the DNA on the breast, just maybe she didnt shower....i dont see the big deal there. If you ever had a two year old, what do you do with a two year old while you take a shower? Its not easy, you just cant let them walk around the house while youre in the shower. And if youre lucky enough to get some time if they nap, you might just have other priorities. Is that so hard to understand?
clamshelli [Visitor] writes:
Also Buzz, Im almost positive that the story about removing the Christmas tree was documented. I may be wrong there but, the tree was still standing after the murder. So, what went on instead of removing that tree on Thursday? CW was not known to discriminate in her taste in men. Her cousin said that on the stand. Her choices in men have not been consistent with what people would imagine a Vassar graduate, or a worldy fashion would choose. I dont find that her having sex with CM all that unbelievable.
legalbeagle [Member] writes:
Bob, read the Motion to Dismiss, and watch the trial. Then ask pertinent questions.
McGowen had fooled her with his 'I'm a nice guy' routine; she trusted him. She opened the door, and was ambushed by them. She fought back.
As a career-criminal, he asked whether or not he should commit his newest crime from a male who had helped him get off the streets, because of his criminal background, and like the Judas he is, he went along with Frazier (what is his background/ criminal record?) and hurt someone who trusted him.
McGowen f*kd her, punching her in the face a few times, just for fun, then they both 'put the boots to her,' until Frazier finally just stabbed her to death, because he, unlike McGowen, was not interested in f*ing her, he was just covetous of her goods.
Then the b and e took place, as was their original plan.
How hard she fought back, that is evidential.
legal-owl, what are your legal education credentials and criminal prosecution background?
I have heard gang-rapists and worse all profess their innocence, and how 'they ain't treated right' in prison
McGowen had fooled her with his 'I'm a nice guy' routine; she trusted him. She opened the door, and was ambushed by them. She fought back.
As a career-criminal, he asked whether or not he should commit his newest crime from a male who had helped him get off the streets, because of his criminal background, and like the Judas he is, he went along with Frazier (what is his background/ criminal record?) and hurt someone who trusted him.
McGowen f*kd her, punching her in the face a few times, just for fun, then they both 'put the boots to her,' until Frazier finally just stabbed her to death, because he, unlike McGowen, was not interested in f*ing her, he was just covetous of her goods.
Then the b and e took place, as was their original plan.
How hard she fought back, that is evidential.
legal-owl, what are your legal education credentials and criminal prosecution background?
I have heard gang-rapists and worse all profess their innocence, and how 'they ain't treated right' in prison
legalbeagle [Member] writes:
Clamshell, you have joined the B-B-B CCToday Mansonite cult, and all because JC is so desperately hoping to write a novel and has no material or inspiration. And not just be a B-B-B blogger on this miserable rag. lol
clamshelli [Visitor] writes:
legalbeagle,
JC has absolutely nothing to do with my mind set. To be honest, I think he sees what is about to happen and wants to be on the "winning team" but thats just my opinion. As I said, I have watched this unfold from day one. I have been consistent with my opinion all the way. I do not agree with the way the "manson3 or 4 or 5 or whatever number you are up to - portrays their views. In some ways, I feel they have damaged this position. I do agree that the case was a sham, and for many many reasons. I did my OWN homework. Can you explain away that call? Id like to hear your thoughts on that.
JC has absolutely nothing to do with my mind set. To be honest, I think he sees what is about to happen and wants to be on the "winning team" but thats just my opinion. As I said, I have watched this unfold from day one. I have been consistent with my opinion all the way. I do not agree with the way the "manson3 or 4 or 5 or whatever number you are up to - portrays their views. In some ways, I feel they have damaged this position. I do agree that the case was a sham, and for many many reasons. I did my OWN homework. Can you explain away that call? Id like to hear your thoughts on that.
Buzz [Member] writes:
clamshelli,
I don't know who made the call from the SP that night or why. I wish someone could answer it. The Christmas tree was documented from what McCowen told the police. That's after several different versions of his statements to police. He also said he didn't have sex with CW until he was confronted with the dna evidence. McCowen made several incriminating statements to the police. Do you deny that he made those statements and the police are lying? I'm trying to answer your questions, I'm no expert on the trial. Can you answer some of my questions? Do you believe he is innocent of killing CW? Do you believe he didn't make incriminating statements to the police? And yes, I'll ask again. Tell me how his dna remained on her breast?
I don't know who made the call from the SP that night or why. I wish someone could answer it. The Christmas tree was documented from what McCowen told the police. That's after several different versions of his statements to police. He also said he didn't have sex with CW until he was confronted with the dna evidence. McCowen made several incriminating statements to the police. Do you deny that he made those statements and the police are lying? I'm trying to answer your questions, I'm no expert on the trial. Can you answer some of my questions? Do you believe he is innocent of killing CW? Do you believe he didn't make incriminating statements to the police? And yes, I'll ask again. Tell me how his dna remained on her breast?
legalbeagle [Member] writes:
Clamshelli, from your viewpoint you must also believe that Brandon Teena 'had it coming'?
Indiscriminate sex? You make it sound like this woman was a prostitute.
Indiscriminate sex? You make it sound like this woman was a prostitute.
clamshelli [Visitor] writes:
Buzz,
Im sorry, I dont believe that statement, and neither did the jury. I believe CM knows more, yes. I dont believe he was the killer. I just explained why CW may have not showered. Didnt the trash company owner know about the Christmas tree pickup? If I recall he did. BUT, the tree still stood in the livingroom. Again, how can you just ignore that phone call?
Im sorry, I dont believe that statement, and neither did the jury. I believe CM knows more, yes. I dont believe he was the killer. I just explained why CW may have not showered. Didnt the trash company owner know about the Christmas tree pickup? If I recall he did. BUT, the tree still stood in the livingroom. Again, how can you just ignore that phone call?
clamshelli [Visitor] writes:
I dont know who Brandon Teena is. On the contrary, I dont think CW was a prostitute at all. I think that is a desperate remark on your part. Now, can you answer my question about the phone call?
legal_owl [Member] writes:
i am not in the legal field and never claimed to be
but your baying at the moon is most bothersome
do you even read what you write?
you said, "McGowen had fooled her with his 'I'm a nice guy' routine; she trusted him. She opened the door, and was ambushed by them. She fought back."
how could mccowen kick in an open door?
wasn't that what the pros case was?
yep, breaking and entering
so where is the breaking if she let him in?
and who did the boot print on the door belong to?
would that be TA who admitted to LE that he had tried to break the door down
you can find that in mason's testimony on cross
so there was no breaking and no burglary
they had sex and you convicted him of murder
is your conscious driving you nuts? if it isn't it ought to be
but your baying at the moon is most bothersome
do you even read what you write?
you said, "McGowen had fooled her with his 'I'm a nice guy' routine; she trusted him. She opened the door, and was ambushed by them. She fought back."
how could mccowen kick in an open door?
wasn't that what the pros case was?
yep, breaking and entering
so where is the breaking if she let him in?
and who did the boot print on the door belong to?
would that be TA who admitted to LE that he had tried to break the door down
you can find that in mason's testimony on cross
so there was no breaking and no burglary
they had sex and you convicted him of murder
is your conscious driving you nuts? if it isn't it ought to be
cw2 [Member] writes:
In LE's defense, and I truly cannot comment here anymore, it is just too disturbing, because of certain similarities, and because I now live in fear for my and my family's safety, but to answer your question, LE, at least in my case, are very busy. That may sound lame to you, but howevermuch my case and my safety and my family's well-being matter to me, I am not number one. I wish I were.
So far, LE and the courts have done everything can, despite their overload of cases.
Because of CW and what they did to her, it is not going to happen to me. I was not indiscriminate; I was trusting. Never again.
So far, LE and the courts have done everything can, despite their overload of cases.
Because of CW and what they did to her, it is not going to happen to me. I was not indiscriminate; I was trusting. Never again.
legalbeagle [Member] writes:
How deftly, legal-owl, you managed not to answer the questions about your legal education and criminal experience.
Try again, a woman answers the door to who she considers a friend.
The door does not have to be kicked in, you ass.
Yeah, right, you have a legal education.
Try again, a woman answers the door to who she considers a friend.
The door does not have to be kicked in, you ass.
Yeah, right, you have a legal education.
Buzz [Member] writes:
I've had 3 two year olds and always found time to shower. I think if someone had sex with a stranger, they'd find time to shower. The phone call...was he a drug informant? According to testimony if I'm not mistaken was made prior to the time of the murder. Besides, the phone call was from the barracks...do you think they were calling to ask if JF had committed a murder that night? Sorry for the sarcasm...it's late. You say you "believe" that CM knows more.....how much more? Was he involved?
bittersweet [Member] writes:
Wow,
You're a sick individual beagle. In fact, you sound like you could have made up that confession yourself.
And do you know CM? He IS a nice guy, there's no routine there.
And what career criminal? How long was he on the cape? No crimes committed here. His crimes happened years ago, and he paid the price, unlike whoever murdered CW here.
But damn...if your scenario (Manson's) happened, why was there NO EVIDENCE of who did it left at the crime scene? At least none that WE are privvy to. Sounds like quite a lot went down there, and there was nothing at the scene whatsoever? no-one could solve the crime from all that action?
BULL.
That is not possible.
And if you are saying that JF killed her, what is he doing walking the streets a free man?
Why did the cops help a murderer to escape justice?
And why are you not screaming for his arrest?
You're a sick individual beagle. In fact, you sound like you could have made up that confession yourself.
And do you know CM? He IS a nice guy, there's no routine there.
And what career criminal? How long was he on the cape? No crimes committed here. His crimes happened years ago, and he paid the price, unlike whoever murdered CW here.
But damn...if your scenario (Manson's) happened, why was there NO EVIDENCE of who did it left at the crime scene? At least none that WE are privvy to. Sounds like quite a lot went down there, and there was nothing at the scene whatsoever? no-one could solve the crime from all that action?
BULL.
That is not possible.
And if you are saying that JF killed her, what is he doing walking the streets a free man?
Why did the cops help a murderer to escape justice?
And why are you not screaming for his arrest?
Buzz [Member] writes:
I guess in the end, all the questions that are being thrown around here, have already been answered in a court of law. The prosecution spoke, the defense spoke and the jury made their decision.
clamshelli [Visitor] writes:
Buzz,
Were you a single parent? What did you do with your two year old while you took a shower? It was NEVER said in court that he was an informant. NEVER. The phone call was made at 1:30 AM on the night the murder occured (according to the prosecutions case). Lets not forget the numerous calls FROM that cell phone to a "pager" -sounds like panic going on to me. Again, I dont think that CM is completely innocent in this, Ive said that over and over - I just dont believe he is the killer. I do say, that if he KNEW that baby was left there, with her dead mother, HE HAS RESPONSIBILITY FOR THAT. But, by the time this is all said and done, Id say TIME SERVED. What else ya wanna know?
Were you a single parent? What did you do with your two year old while you took a shower? It was NEVER said in court that he was an informant. NEVER. The phone call was made at 1:30 AM on the night the murder occured (according to the prosecutions case). Lets not forget the numerous calls FROM that cell phone to a "pager" -sounds like panic going on to me. Again, I dont think that CM is completely innocent in this, Ive said that over and over - I just dont believe he is the killer. I do say, that if he KNEW that baby was left there, with her dead mother, HE HAS RESPONSIBILITY FOR THAT. But, by the time this is all said and done, Id say TIME SERVED. What else ya wanna know?
legalbeagle [Member] writes:
Missed your point, legal-assness: most probably, she opened the door and she saw McGowen; but when she noticed he was looking sheepish or somehow not like himself, plus being on percocet, who knows, then Frazier stepped up, she got scared, and tried to shut the door on them. Then the door was kicked. By which one, uncertain.
McGowen's convicted.
Get Frazier.
McGowen's convicted.
Get Frazier.
clamshelli [Visitor] writes:
legalbeagle,
Your desperate remarks and name calling are pretty transparent.
Your desperate remarks and name calling are pretty transparent.
Buzz [Member] writes:
Ooooops,
bittersweet's in the house. I'm going to quietly slip out the backdoor. Please, don't anybody tell her I'm here....she'll start making crazy statements like "he hasn't committed any crimes on the Cape" that's if you don't consider MURDER a crime. Good night everybody.
bittersweet's in the house. I'm going to quietly slip out the backdoor. Please, don't anybody tell her I'm here....she'll start making crazy statements like "he hasn't committed any crimes on the Cape" that's if you don't consider MURDER a crime. Good night everybody.
legal_owl [Member] writes:
if you can locate a copy of the security video of cw and ava in the grocery store on friday you can see that she was disheveled to say the least
did not appear to have recently showered
and the mccowen dna found on cw's breast was mixed with ava's saliva
don't even ask me to speculate on how that could happen
maybe it would be more productive to concentrate on the things that were missing from the murder scene
for example, whether the sex was consensual or rape, mccowen's hair and prints should have been in that house
not a single hair and not a single print that belonged to him
let me see, you think he was smart enough to sanitize the scene and yet dumb enough to leave his semen
right!
did not appear to have recently showered
and the mccowen dna found on cw's breast was mixed with ava's saliva
don't even ask me to speculate on how that could happen
maybe it would be more productive to concentrate on the things that were missing from the murder scene
for example, whether the sex was consensual or rape, mccowen's hair and prints should have been in that house
not a single hair and not a single print that belonged to him
let me see, you think he was smart enough to sanitize the scene and yet dumb enough to leave his semen
right!
Buzz [Member] writes:
clamshelli,
Do you know the best way when your a single or married parent to give a two year old a bath? To take them in the tub or shower with you.....I did it all the time. Or, you could take one while there sleeping. How the HELLL do you have consenual SEX with a stranger/garbageman with a two year old. I know you said you did your "homework" but you just got an "F" on bathing a two year old.
Do you know the best way when your a single or married parent to give a two year old a bath? To take them in the tub or shower with you.....I did it all the time. Or, you could take one while there sleeping. How the HELLL do you have consenual SEX with a stranger/garbageman with a two year old. I know you said you did your "homework" but you just got an "F" on bathing a two year old.
legalbeagle [Member] writes:
Even if he was not the one that stabbed her, if that was the ultimate cause of death, he gets the same sentence. The b and e, the rape, the unbelievably severe beating, and ultimate death of Ms. Worthington.
His conviction is regardless of his lifetime of crime and abusing women.
His conviction is regardless of his lifetime of crime and abusing women.
bittersweet [Member] writes:
Oh please don't leave yet without answering that extremely sensible question owl just asked you.
HELLO!!
HELLO!!
bittersweet [Member] writes:
That is not justice beagle.
And I say he was not involved at all.
He's totally innocent and paying the price for someone else's horrible deed.
And since you say Frazier did it, then wtf? When do they go after him and charge him with murder?
And I say he was not involved at all.
He's totally innocent and paying the price for someone else's horrible deed.
And since you say Frazier did it, then wtf? When do they go after him and charge him with murder?
legalbeagle [Member] writes:
Buzz, ever hear of post-partum depression, and/or menopause? She had a baby at forty.
Or are you a freak like Tom Cruise into scientology who said that Brooke Shields was just 'making it all up,' and there's no need for modern medicine for female 'problems,' especially if you know you're headed for outer space with Ron Hubbard? lol
I guess we middle-aged women just aren't as clean or as hot as teenybopper Katie Holmes, the way you think we should be for you. jk, kinda
Clamshelli, your points on this are appreciated, however irrelevant her bathing habits are to her case.
You're right, it's late.
Or are you a freak like Tom Cruise into scientology who said that Brooke Shields was just 'making it all up,' and there's no need for modern medicine for female 'problems,' especially if you know you're headed for outer space with Ron Hubbard? lol
I guess we middle-aged women just aren't as clean or as hot as teenybopper Katie Holmes, the way you think we should be for you. jk, kinda
Clamshelli, your points on this are appreciated, however irrelevant her bathing habits are to her case.
You're right, it's late.
clamshelli [Visitor] writes:
Well hell Buzz, No one was talking about bathing a two year old. The tub was found full of bath toys, Ava got her bath, but just maybe CW didnt. And everybody is NOT YOU. I brought up two children and NEVER EVER took a shower with them. I just would never do that. And yes, I may have skipped a few showers in those days too. And who are you to say who a single woman should have sex with? She had every right to have sex with whoever she wanted to...and she DID. Just because YOU wouldnt, means nothing.
legal_owl [Member] writes:
you people have got to be joking
are you all gullible enough to believe whatever you hear from those in authority?
did no one teach you to think for yourselves?
you make me tired, i'm calling it a night
are you all gullible enough to believe whatever you hear from those in authority?
did no one teach you to think for yourselves?
you make me tired, i'm calling it a night
Buzz [Member] writes:
"A swab taken from Worthington's right breast after her stabbing death revealed DNA from McCowen, according to Christine Lemire, a part-time supervisor at the Massachusetts State Police Crime Lab." "Some of Ava's DNA was found on her mother's left breast, which would have been consistent with a toddler's attempts to nurse, Lemire testified."
You see, woman have two breasts...a left and a right. Ava's saliva Left, McCowens Right. Now, Ava must have been pretty hungry to try and suck on her dead mothers breast....I would assume that meant that Christa had been dead awhile.....say around the time that CM had sex with her.
You see, woman have two breasts...a left and a right. Ava's saliva Left, McCowens Right. Now, Ava must have been pretty hungry to try and suck on her dead mothers breast....I would assume that meant that Christa had been dead awhile.....say around the time that CM had sex with her.
clamshelli [Visitor] writes:
UGH, sorry Buzz, youre right, its late. Im tired. Ill say one thing, I can appreciate having a discussion with someone who doesnt resort to name calling and desperate remarks. Thanks for that at least. And as I said, I do understand being stuck. Ive tried to answer your question, but you havent been able to answer mine. Time for bed for me.
bittersweet [Member] writes:
She would have been hungry after two to four hours silly man.
And again what does that prove?
And didn't you read JC's post? Isn't that what we are all talking about?
He says the time of death was Saturday between 8am and 8pm.
The prosecution says it was Friday night.
So, when they say that CM killed her on Friday night, it is a lie. Any way you look at it.
And again what does that prove?
And didn't you read JC's post? Isn't that what we are all talking about?
He says the time of death was Saturday between 8am and 8pm.
The prosecution says it was Friday night.
So, when they say that CM killed her on Friday night, it is a lie. Any way you look at it.
Buzz [Member] writes:
"Nields said, however, that the time frame was only an estimate and depended on several unknown variables, including the temperature in Worthington's seaside cottage after the murder"
bittersweet [Member] writes:
So they convict someone for murder based on an estimate??
legalbeagle [Member] writes:
clamshelli, I gave you credit where credit was due, and did not mean to offend; your comments (v. others) I do read.
Hypothetically, since you believe 'time served,' if McGowen were released, and he re-offended -- as Norman Mailer did for a convicted murderer while working on the Gary Gilmore story, who committed murder again within one month -- because he is a career criminal, which is not permissible evidence, but which is known, especially that he abuses women, wouldn't that trouble you?
What makes you believe he would not re-offend?
There is so much available about general criminal recidivism, regardless that it is inadmissible in court.
Hypothetically, since you believe 'time served,' if McGowen were released, and he re-offended -- as Norman Mailer did for a convicted murderer while working on the Gary Gilmore story, who committed murder again within one month -- because he is a career criminal, which is not permissible evidence, but which is known, especially that he abuses women, wouldn't that trouble you?
What makes you believe he would not re-offend?
There is so much available about general criminal recidivism, regardless that it is inadmissible in court.
Buzz [Member] writes:
Yes, the estimate and the DNA on the opposite breast of baby Ava's DNA. That's all they needed.....well, that and the fact that he was big and black and JF was being protected by the police and the fact that CW's Christmas Tree was artificial and CM didn't know that when he used that as his alibi as why he went to her house to have consensual sex with her even though she was disheveled and doesn't usually shower for days after sex leaving innocent mens dna on her breasts.
Good night.....(bitter)sweet dreams.
Good night.....(bitter)sweet dreams.
clamshelli [Visitor] writes:
well ok legalbeagle, this last post, then I am going to bed. Reoffend what? If you mean more RO's..sure, he may get more of them, and then whatever punishment is just for that, sure he should get it. He did not murder CW (I believe)so I dont believe he can RE do something that he didnt do in the first place. If I am not making sense right now, sorry, Im tired. Please dont waste your time talking about other cases. I am not a regular trial watcher. I only watched this one because it happend where I live and I was familiar with most of the names. It is what I saw in that courtroom that outraged me.
bittersweet [Member] writes:
It is not known that he abuses women...careful, slander you know.
He is not a "career criminal".
He did not murder CW.
So, what, you want him to spend his life in Walpole cause you don't like him?
He is not a "career criminal".
He did not murder CW.
So, what, you want him to spend his life in Walpole cause you don't like him?
clamshelli [Visitor] writes:
Buzz,
Go to bed, you sound as slap happy as I feel. nite
Go to bed, you sound as slap happy as I feel. nite
Buzz [Member] writes:
"His previous record included several restraining orders on Cape Cod involving five women and he had even served time in a Florida prison for a variety of other offenses, the Hartford Courant reported. Some of those offenses included car theft and burglary."
bittersweet [Member] writes:
When was this? How many years ago?
It must have been quite a while ago, as he's been around here since 1998 or 9.
Do you get to keep using that as your defense for convicting him of rape and murder?
And Buzz, do things fly in one ear and out the other with you?
I know personally that two of those ro's were bogus. And unfairly put on him due to pressuring by the cops.
The other three I don't know, but it really makes me angry when people use ro's for things other than what they are meant for.
And you know, you are just obfuscating here. Why don't you answer legal owl's question:
"maybe it would be more productive to concentrate on the things that were missing from the murder scene
for example, whether the sex was consensual or rape, mccowen's hair and prints should have been in that house
not a single hair and not a single print that belonged to him
let me see, you think he was smart enough to sanitize the scene and yet dumb enough to leave his semen
right!"
It must have been quite a while ago, as he's been around here since 1998 or 9.
Do you get to keep using that as your defense for convicting him of rape and murder?
And Buzz, do things fly in one ear and out the other with you?
I know personally that two of those ro's were bogus. And unfairly put on him due to pressuring by the cops.
The other three I don't know, but it really makes me angry when people use ro's for things other than what they are meant for.
And you know, you are just obfuscating here. Why don't you answer legal owl's question:
"maybe it would be more productive to concentrate on the things that were missing from the murder scene
for example, whether the sex was consensual or rape, mccowen's hair and prints should have been in that house
not a single hair and not a single print that belonged to him
let me see, you think he was smart enough to sanitize the scene and yet dumb enough to leave his semen
right!"
bittersweet [Member] writes:
And this; it's really not that unusaul you know
if you can locate a copy of the security video of cw and ava in the grocery store on friday you can see that she was disheveled to say the least
did not appear to have recently showered
if you can locate a copy of the security video of cw and ava in the grocery store on friday you can see that she was disheveled to say the least
did not appear to have recently showered
cw2 [Member] writes:
A 209A, an RO, does not mean that a woman is protected. It just leaves a paper trail.
Is my case just one of many? Yes.
I sat in the police station for three hours, unable to speak, about what had happened.
I just sat there.
Six different officers tried.
Each asked, 'You can't talk about it?'
And I just shook my head, 'No.'
The sixth, a female officer, succeeded.
The court proceedings are unspeakable.
And it continues.
And the 209A cannot protect me from him and his associates.
He is still out, and listening to him protest his innocence in front of the judges makes it very difficult, especially for a very innocent woman who knows nothing of crimes or criminals, to testify.
He, and others like him, are why women do not come forward.
They have no shame.
I want him to cry like a baby like McGowen for what he has done and has always done.
You want him on the street, hurting others?
He should have remained in prison.
They keep letting him out, again and again and again.
But I have to believe that LE and the courts are on my side.
Is my case just one of many? Yes.
I sat in the police station for three hours, unable to speak, about what had happened.
I just sat there.
Six different officers tried.
Each asked, 'You can't talk about it?'
And I just shook my head, 'No.'
The sixth, a female officer, succeeded.
The court proceedings are unspeakable.
And it continues.
And the 209A cannot protect me from him and his associates.
He is still out, and listening to him protest his innocence in front of the judges makes it very difficult, especially for a very innocent woman who knows nothing of crimes or criminals, to testify.
He, and others like him, are why women do not come forward.
They have no shame.
I want him to cry like a baby like McGowen for what he has done and has always done.
You want him on the street, hurting others?
He should have remained in prison.
They keep letting him out, again and again and again.
But I have to believe that LE and the courts are on my side.
bittersweet [Member] writes:
Just because this man is guilty does not mean chris is. And dammit, Chris is not guilty!
Whoever you are having a problem with, stop bringing him into it.please.
And I know exactly how you feel, because back in the 80's the police would tell you,"Sorry, we can't do anything unless we see something happen."
So, that left you pretty much on your own.
But please just stick to your perpetrator.
And maybe there's a reason they keep letting him out?
Maybe the same reason Chris was set-up?
If he's a local-boy,anything is possible, it seems.
Whoever you are having a problem with, stop bringing him into it.please.
And I know exactly how you feel, because back in the 80's the police would tell you,"Sorry, we can't do anything unless we see something happen."
So, that left you pretty much on your own.
But please just stick to your perpetrator.
And maybe there's a reason they keep letting him out?
Maybe the same reason Chris was set-up?
If he's a local-boy,anything is possible, it seems.
bittersweet [Member] writes:
And while i'm at it, you sound very much like, and your writing style is very much like legalbeagle, so if you are sincere in what you say, as you said, "you have my sympathies-get some counseling" But, due to your previous posts, it makes me wonder;
Whomever this crusader-paranoid-BBB-obsessed freak is insinuating I am proves the extraordinarily delusional clinical pathology of this commenter.
The criminal rap sheet is no surprise; stop crying, bitter, he's used to it, and it's not a hell hole. You clearly have watched too much CTV.
Most of us, if you haven't noticed -- other than bitter and crusader -- have no interest in their BBB pornographic fantasies they post on CCToday.
See, not much that would engender sympathy there, is there? So,if your trying to have people dump on Chris because of your horrible situation,it's not gonna work. You have been really awful with both crusader and myself, and we have both been abused by men too. That doesn't give you a free pass.
Whomever this crusader-paranoid-BBB-obsessed freak is insinuating I am proves the extraordinarily delusional clinical pathology of this commenter.
The criminal rap sheet is no surprise; stop crying, bitter, he's used to it, and it's not a hell hole. You clearly have watched too much CTV.
Most of us, if you haven't noticed -- other than bitter and crusader -- have no interest in their BBB pornographic fantasies they post on CCToday.
See, not much that would engender sympathy there, is there? So,if your trying to have people dump on Chris because of your horrible situation,it's not gonna work. You have been really awful with both crusader and myself, and we have both been abused by men too. That doesn't give you a free pass.
cw2 [Member] writes:
bitter, of course I pity you, or any woman who has been abused. But you make no sense because you state you have been abused and then side with the perpetrator(s).
Unlike you, I have no pity or empathy for any man who abuses women, in any respect.
From this one horrible experience, ritual re-offenders belong where they belong, in prison.
Whatever your relationships with McGowen were and presently are, you are contradictory: you have been raped and abused perpetually, yet this re-offender is innocent.
That is why you need counseling. You are conflicted about what a 'good' v. a 'bad' man is, and how you should be treated.
Somehow you keep trying to make the argument that male abusers are your friend. That is why you make no sense and no one listens.
It has happened to me once, and I am now able to recognize it in McGowen and his testimony and rap sheet, or any other like him.
Continuing to attempt to make me believe that I will not be protected by LE and the courts is doing damage.
Unlike JC, you will not change my mind.
Think about CW and yourself, not CM.
Unlike you, I have no pity or empathy for any man who abuses women, in any respect.
From this one horrible experience, ritual re-offenders belong where they belong, in prison.
Whatever your relationships with McGowen were and presently are, you are contradictory: you have been raped and abused perpetually, yet this re-offender is innocent.
That is why you need counseling. You are conflicted about what a 'good' v. a 'bad' man is, and how you should be treated.
Somehow you keep trying to make the argument that male abusers are your friend. That is why you make no sense and no one listens.
It has happened to me once, and I am now able to recognize it in McGowen and his testimony and rap sheet, or any other like him.
Continuing to attempt to make me believe that I will not be protected by LE and the courts is doing damage.
Unlike JC, you will not change my mind.
Think about CW and yourself, not CM.
legal_owl [Member] writes:
DNA ANALYST CHRISTINE LEMIRE testified that McCowen dna found on RIGHT breast as the major contributor of a mixed dna sample with CW being the minor contributor
(this was from an interim report generated on April 13, 2005)
listen for yourself:
http://www.courttv.com/video/player.html?videoSrc=#highlights
click on Trials on Demand
scroll to end
lots of excerpts there
anyone remember hearing this is the trial?
"At the very end, the court heard that a human blood stain on Worthington's shoe is still unidentified, but that it's definitely not McCowen's."
this quote can be found here:
http://www.wgbh.org/cainan/article?item_id=3097878
this is from friday, 10/27/06
so who bled on CWs shoe?
(this was from an interim report generated on April 13, 2005)
listen for yourself:
http://www.courttv.com/video/player.html?videoSrc=#highlights
click on Trials on Demand
scroll to end
lots of excerpts there
anyone remember hearing this is the trial?
"At the very end, the court heard that a human blood stain on Worthington's shoe is still unidentified, but that it's definitely not McCowen's."
this quote can be found here:
http://www.wgbh.org/cainan/article?item_id=3097878
this is from friday, 10/27/06
so who bled on CWs shoe?
bittersweet [Member] writes:
No, you just don't know that cops can be "bad" men too, and in this case, a "bad" man lied, and sent an innocent man to prison.
Do you know that battered women's shelters don't tell the police where the safe houses are? It's because too many of them are offenders themselves, and as we've seen in this case,have all the power of the law on their side.
I'm glad they're helping you....times have changed, and most cops are not "bad", but they don't get a free pass either when they mis-use their power!
And once again, no offense, but the attitude you have shown towards me is hardly pity...more like contempt. So, that's why it's a constant fight around here for the Manson 3...cause we do know when we are being treated like SH$#, and it comes from all of you!
And my empathy goes to Chris, who is rotting in a hell hole for a crime he didn't committ.
Do you know that battered women's shelters don't tell the police where the safe houses are? It's because too many of them are offenders themselves, and as we've seen in this case,have all the power of the law on their side.
I'm glad they're helping you....times have changed, and most cops are not "bad", but they don't get a free pass either when they mis-use their power!
And once again, no offense, but the attitude you have shown towards me is hardly pity...more like contempt. So, that's why it's a constant fight around here for the Manson 3...cause we do know when we are being treated like SH$#, and it comes from all of you!
And my empathy goes to Chris, who is rotting in a hell hole for a crime he didn't committ.
bittersweet [Member] writes:
Oh Yeah legal owl....bring it on!
bittersweet [Member] writes:
Here is another point of view from someone who watched the trial, and had no agenda other than to see justice served.
Theres is a BIG reason for all this! DRUGS! [/*]
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Most of us CTV posters figured that was the case in the first trial. I want the real truth to come out this time. BTW; that cop who remembered verbatim every single word McCowen said (EVERY SINGLE WORD) without notes, without tape recording or video recording; and then on cross exam; well....seems he can't remember a darn thing.
Theres is a BIG reason for all this! DRUGS! [/*]
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Most of us CTV posters figured that was the case in the first trial. I want the real truth to come out this time. BTW; that cop who remembered verbatim every single word McCowen said (EVERY SINGLE WORD) without notes, without tape recording or video recording; and then on cross exam; well....seems he can't remember a darn thing.
crusader [Member] writes:
Re:
Toys in CW's tub--we saw the photos presented at the trial. People don't have to shower, there are quicker ways to cleanse, like the sink...use some imagination. Buzz, you mentioned a wife, so obviously, you don't watch the kids much of the time, she does and no toddler should ever be left unattended, it only takes minutes for them to get into trouble.....every mother knows this...we also heard that CW (according to TA) often stayed in pj's or sweats, not hard to imagine, since she wasn't living in Manhattan anymore--fashion was in the past...casual attire on the Cape is not uncommon, you saw how she looked on the video in S&S...not exactly decked out for the opera.
BG stated at trial that there were 25 calls made to JF's pager...but I'm still wondering if it was DM's pager since JF & DM shared the cell phone--allegedly...what was going on....and then witnesses reported a police crusier seen sitting idle outside her driveway on Friday night....well doesn't that raise some valid concern? Who was in the house, who was the look out? Who's DNA was not tested?
Toys in CW's tub--we saw the photos presented at the trial. People don't have to shower, there are quicker ways to cleanse, like the sink...use some imagination. Buzz, you mentioned a wife, so obviously, you don't watch the kids much of the time, she does and no toddler should ever be left unattended, it only takes minutes for them to get into trouble.....every mother knows this...we also heard that CW (according to TA) often stayed in pj's or sweats, not hard to imagine, since she wasn't living in Manhattan anymore--fashion was in the past...casual attire on the Cape is not uncommon, you saw how she looked on the video in S&S...not exactly decked out for the opera.
BG stated at trial that there were 25 calls made to JF's pager...but I'm still wondering if it was DM's pager since JF & DM shared the cell phone--allegedly...what was going on....and then witnesses reported a police crusier seen sitting idle outside her driveway on Friday night....well doesn't that raise some valid concern? Who was in the house, who was the look out? Who's DNA was not tested?
crusader [Member] writes:
...who was in charge of evidence for TPD? Who was having a relationship with both cousins? Who was called to the scene of the crime by the other cousin...you know, the one that was still breathing? BG baggered her on the stand....don't you remember? BG: "Why did you call the police, instead of the ambulance?"....I forget the lame answer quite frankly...but it didn't exactly hold up...none of her other testimony did either...like the story about her screenplay--which was the real one--the one told to her fellow PD or HBO? Clever that HBO was at trial to hear it for themselves..caught lieing on the stand.
Who was seen snooping around in CW's storage unit after the murder? Or walking the premises with a metal detector, when Sgt. Burke recanted while being pressed by BG--DC was not ASSIGNED to the case, but he was having a relationship with CW...so why was he there? Why didn't he take the stand on the last day of witness testimony prior to jury deliberation? Diaries & laptop--where are they today? What secrets are written there?...yeah, & LE are sooooo honest....
Who was seen snooping around in CW's storage unit after the murder? Or walking the premises with a metal detector, when Sgt. Burke recanted while being pressed by BG--DC was not ASSIGNED to the case, but he was having a relationship with CW...so why was he there? Why didn't he take the stand on the last day of witness testimony prior to jury deliberation? Diaries & laptop--where are they today? What secrets are written there?...yeah, & LE are sooooo honest....
clamshelli [Visitor] writes:
Crusader,
This is the first Ive heard of a cruiser being at her house of Friday night. And where is the mention of a laptop and a diary? I dont remember either of those things in the trial.
This is the first Ive heard of a cruiser being at her house of Friday night. And where is the mention of a laptop and a diary? I dont remember either of those things in the trial.
crusader [Member] writes:
clamshelli,
Sometimes getting at the truth means you have to take off the gloves in the ring...go for the jugluar....I only wish BG had done just that--he was bushwacked...didn't know how they play at Barstable Court House--others have told us what deals go on behind the scenes....I'm tired of being forced to pussy-foot around this story....too bad if feelings get hurt, or we are not suppose to bad mouth the boys-in-blue...if they are guilty of wrongdoing, they should be held accountable like everyone else. And it is sad to see young males behaving as they do (JF & co.) I don't give a sh*t how nice these families are---if they are guilty of this horrific crime, they have to pay the price. Most parents would be sickened. If his uncle had covered for him (ex-Truro cop, friends in MSP, & state house) then he is accountable as well. It's time for people to throw them to the mercy of the court--THE HIGH COURT--bring them up to BOSTON...we'll know just what to do with those bad boys....Walpole is too good for them.
Sometimes getting at the truth means you have to take off the gloves in the ring...go for the jugluar....I only wish BG had done just that--he was bushwacked...didn't know how they play at Barstable Court House--others have told us what deals go on behind the scenes....I'm tired of being forced to pussy-foot around this story....too bad if feelings get hurt, or we are not suppose to bad mouth the boys-in-blue...if they are guilty of wrongdoing, they should be held accountable like everyone else. And it is sad to see young males behaving as they do (JF & co.) I don't give a sh*t how nice these families are---if they are guilty of this horrific crime, they have to pay the price. Most parents would be sickened. If his uncle had covered for him (ex-Truro cop, friends in MSP, & state house) then he is accountable as well. It's time for people to throw them to the mercy of the court--THE HIGH COURT--bring them up to BOSTON...we'll know just what to do with those bad boys....Walpole is too good for them.
crusader [Member] writes:
clamshelli,
Witnesses came forward to say they saw a cruiser parked outside of CW's home late on Friday night. Her laptop & two diaries were taken.
Witnesses came forward to say they saw a cruiser parked outside of CW's home late on Friday night. Her laptop & two diaries were taken.
Buzz [Member] writes:
Thanks for the hygiene tips crusader. Honestly, you guys keep coming up with any scenario that you want. The FACT of the matter is that there already WAS a trial and all this evidence was considered by a very good defense attorney and CM was still found GUILTY. He is a convicted murderer. As I said before and I'll say it again, if the judicial process considers that he deserves a re-trial or overturns the conviction, I'll live with it. Buy you guys go ahead and talk amongst yourself...your going to believe anything you want anyway.
crusader [Member] writes:
"and the mccowen dna found on cw's breast was mixed with ava's saliva"
Ava was found trying to nurse from her mother, that may have been how her saliva was mixed with CM's.
Ava was found trying to nurse from her mother, that may have been how her saliva was mixed with CM's.
Buzz [Member] writes:
Lemire's other testimony conclusively linked McCowen to the crime scene. She said saliva from the victim's breast matched the 33-year-old's genetic profile, a DNA profile so rare that it occurs once in 198 trillion times in the African-American population.
DNA consistent with that profile was also found in Worthington's genitals.
The prosecutor asked Lemire if the DNA would have remained on Worthington's breast after a shower.
"No, I wouldn't expect DNA to persist on the body," she said.
Nothing about Ava's saliva mixed with his....case closed.
DNA consistent with that profile was also found in Worthington's genitals.
The prosecutor asked Lemire if the DNA would have remained on Worthington's breast after a shower.
"No, I wouldn't expect DNA to persist on the body," she said.
Nothing about Ava's saliva mixed with his....case closed.
clamshelli [Visitor] writes:
Crusader,
All I am asking is if these two pieces of information - the cruiser being there on that Friday, and the laptop and diary - are these facts, or something someone told you. I need to know if they are facts or hearsay. I use facts in my arguments and if those two things are facts, Id like to know. If they are hearsay, feel free to use them in your arguments. I need to back up my arguments. So, if you dont mind, could you please tell me where I can read about those two things? Thank you
All I am asking is if these two pieces of information - the cruiser being there on that Friday, and the laptop and diary - are these facts, or something someone told you. I need to know if they are facts or hearsay. I use facts in my arguments and if those two things are facts, Id like to know. If they are hearsay, feel free to use them in your arguments. I need to back up my arguments. So, if you dont mind, could you please tell me where I can read about those two things? Thank you
crusader [Member] writes:
Buzz,
Your welcome on the hygene tips..in a hurry or having to pay attention to a curious toddler--all of us have skipped one daily shower if we didn't have the time.
It's you & those who agree with you--who are not willing to believe what is staring you in the face, mainly because, CC doesn't have many murders. Maybe except for your occasional suicide, or unreported OD's, Truro didn't have a murder for 35 years & this case raised questions of RACE, CLASS & the manner in which Cape LE handle UNTAPED statements, DNA of suspects. I'm still wondering why the forensic evidence at the crime scene was untested & reported as "heavily contaminated" by 14-20 individuals of PTD & fire dept. Even in the worst, most incompetent crime scene, does this kind of thing happen? Didn't they know better? Was it done intentionally? Maybe just to cover their tracks for the "extra friendly intereactions" told to us by a local who seem to know how frequently CW was visited by 3 TP officers...I mean come on, already...is everyone playing the 3 monkeys...deaf, dumb & blind?
Your welcome on the hygene tips..in a hurry or having to pay attention to a curious toddler--all of us have skipped one daily shower if we didn't have the time.
It's you & those who agree with you--who are not willing to believe what is staring you in the face, mainly because, CC doesn't have many murders. Maybe except for your occasional suicide, or unreported OD's, Truro didn't have a murder for 35 years & this case raised questions of RACE, CLASS & the manner in which Cape LE handle UNTAPED statements, DNA of suspects. I'm still wondering why the forensic evidence at the crime scene was untested & reported as "heavily contaminated" by 14-20 individuals of PTD & fire dept. Even in the worst, most incompetent crime scene, does this kind of thing happen? Didn't they know better? Was it done intentionally? Maybe just to cover their tracks for the "extra friendly intereactions" told to us by a local who seem to know how frequently CW was visited by 3 TP officers...I mean come on, already...is everyone playing the 3 monkeys...deaf, dumb & blind?
cw2 [Member] writes:
crusader, if you have information that Frazier was involved, which I believe he was, most probably both the instigator and killer, ie, the final death wound was with one of his many knives--although I equally believe in McGowen's guilt as not just an accomplice to murder, but also as a perpetrator of the b and e, rape, and brutal, violent beating of Ms. Worthington while he did it, and agree with his appropriate sentence--why do you not step forward?
And if you believe that she was having an affair with an officer, name him.
And if you believe that she was having an affair with an officer, name him.
crusader [Member] writes:
Buzz,
Safferstein's testimony of UNTESTED forensics was stronger...NO ONE is disputing whether or not they had sex!
I don't know why you cannot get beyond this issue of his (seminal) DNA....you are seeing only the trees and not the forest...the entire picture....ALL THE EVIDENCE....BOOT PRINT ON THE DOOR....LE wear blackboots.....why was the casting & boot print not matched to LE or the other suspects......I'll tell you why not....and why wasn't GS's statement to TPD followed up.....again.....I'll tell you why not......why didn't DC take the stand.....give me a break, will ya....thank God murders don't happen often on CC.....you have a hard enough time keeping your local OUI's out of trouble.....
Safferstein's testimony of UNTESTED forensics was stronger...NO ONE is disputing whether or not they had sex!
I don't know why you cannot get beyond this issue of his (seminal) DNA....you are seeing only the trees and not the forest...the entire picture....ALL THE EVIDENCE....BOOT PRINT ON THE DOOR....LE wear blackboots.....why was the casting & boot print not matched to LE or the other suspects......I'll tell you why not....and why wasn't GS's statement to TPD followed up.....again.....I'll tell you why not......why didn't DC take the stand.....give me a break, will ya....thank God murders don't happen often on CC.....you have a hard enough time keeping your local OUI's out of trouble.....
bittersweet [Member] writes:
It's the other monkeys too crusader...See No Evil Hear No Evil, Speak No Evil.
Still doesn't make it go away.
And Still doesn't change history, no matter how hard they try.
Still doesn't make it go away.
And Still doesn't change history, no matter how hard they try.
crusader [Member] writes:
cw2,
I believe it's impt. to retain anonymity of posters/bloggers for many reasons, one being--there are too many crack-pots out there, & frankly who needs more, when you've got enough right here on this board...good grief.
I'm sorry you have endured abuse at the hands of the man who were involved with & understand your concern with regard to this case, but I think you are wrong about CM. There is nothing to link him to the crime scene. CW had enemies that had more reason to kill her--that I do believe...CM was not one of them. Someone had to go down & it wasn't going to be a local, that's for damn sure.
I believe it's impt. to retain anonymity of posters/bloggers for many reasons, one being--there are too many crack-pots out there, & frankly who needs more, when you've got enough right here on this board...good grief.
I'm sorry you have endured abuse at the hands of the man who were involved with & understand your concern with regard to this case, but I think you are wrong about CM. There is nothing to link him to the crime scene. CW had enemies that had more reason to kill her--that I do believe...CM was not one of them. Someone had to go down & it wasn't going to be a local, that's for damn sure.
bevbybeach [Member] writes:
It is unfortunately very noticeable that for every blog regarding the Christa Worthington murder on CCToday, crusader and bittersweet take over every blog, and leave a very bad aftertaste with their undercurrents that they are somehow glad, the CC have-and-have-not syndrome-culture, where the have-nots do a happy dance when someone who has led a very good and happy and productive life, are hurt. Much of what of they post comes off as vindictive jealousy of this poor woman's demise. As for the cc insular culture of conformity and ridicule, and any video of this new mother struggling and looking like hell to provide for her child, only to be cut down, once my sister who has two very small children left the house and went shopping with two different shoes on. She's so overwhelmed, someone who is normally meticulous about her appearance, she didn't notice. When her husband came home from work, he looked at her feet. He sympathized. He didn't cut her down. He began helping out more. Who was looking out for Christa Worthington? crusader and bs have been booted from other sites for a reason
crusader [Member] writes:
cw2,
I have no proof JF killed CW. Like others who frequent this board & study the facts & rumors of this case (sorry, but rumors should be followed up as well, when more than one local tells me the same rumor & locals don't know one another, it's got to have some truth to it, should be followed up...by who local LE, MSP...are you kidding?) Why would locals point to Truro LE if no involvement in this crime? You tell me why? You don't have a valid answer or other questions begging to be answered. With all that is going on in the news today with corruption among LE--Boston, NY, etc., yes, not just your untainted island....as you claim....I'm willing to say that DM is from Somerville, as BG stated, & if he's involved then he should go back to Walpole....but I'm not pleased with how locals just brush this off, like someone ran by and disturbed one of your precious piping plover santuaries..(and I love nature & all it's wonderful creatures)...but a woman is dead..life goes on with the dancing fiddler crabs, soaring seagulls on the backdrop of a pristine seaside....enough already.
I have no proof JF killed CW. Like others who frequent this board & study the facts & rumors of this case (sorry, but rumors should be followed up as well, when more than one local tells me the same rumor & locals don't know one another, it's got to have some truth to it, should be followed up...by who local LE, MSP...are you kidding?) Why would locals point to Truro LE if no involvement in this crime? You tell me why? You don't have a valid answer or other questions begging to be answered. With all that is going on in the news today with corruption among LE--Boston, NY, etc., yes, not just your untainted island....as you claim....I'm willing to say that DM is from Somerville, as BG stated, & if he's involved then he should go back to Walpole....but I'm not pleased with how locals just brush this off, like someone ran by and disturbed one of your precious piping plover santuaries..(and I love nature & all it's wonderful creatures)...but a woman is dead..life goes on with the dancing fiddler crabs, soaring seagulls on the backdrop of a pristine seaside....enough already.
legaleagle1 [Member] writes:
Clamshell,
Michael Iacuessa of the Provincetown Banner stated in an article that several items were missing from her house, including a wireless Panasonic phone, ID and credit cards. Her purse and car keys were found in the driveway.
Michael Iacuessa of the Provincetown Banner stated in an article that several items were missing from her house, including a wireless Panasonic phone, ID and credit cards. Her purse and car keys were found in the driveway.
cw2 [Member] writes:
crusader: direct question, do you believe frazier was involved or not? If not, state your suspect(s). I believe Frazier and McGowen did it; and that perhaps, with hope, maybe Cold Case Files, like the Skakel case, Frazier will get caught, tried, and convicted eventually. Whatever it takes.
If you know something, say so. You rumor so much, and state so little.
If you know something, say so. You rumor so much, and state so little.
crusader [Member] writes:
bevbybeach,
It is unfortunate that you cannot understand why bitter & I offer our opinions. Jealous of Christa? Maybe you should go ask MF about that. We only want the truth to this obvious conspiracy led by your local LE. No one is dancing, except for maybe your local knife weilding maniac hiding in the dunes that LE & locals wish to protect.
You need to go back and read everything you can find about this story. I'm sure you will realize you are greatly mistaken of our motives. There are many who have defamed Christa in the worst possible way. I suggest you go critize them--some have profited greatly by twisting this story to suit their own purpose. Greed will never make their lives improve, that goes for all who have made money from her death. That money will forever be laced with her blood. How does one live with that? Guess they can't make a buck on their own, so they have to profit off of a dead woman. Isn't there any shame in that?
It is unfortunate that you cannot understand why bitter & I offer our opinions. Jealous of Christa? Maybe you should go ask MF about that. We only want the truth to this obvious conspiracy led by your local LE. No one is dancing, except for maybe your local knife weilding maniac hiding in the dunes that LE & locals wish to protect.
You need to go back and read everything you can find about this story. I'm sure you will realize you are greatly mistaken of our motives. There are many who have defamed Christa in the worst possible way. I suggest you go critize them--some have profited greatly by twisting this story to suit their own purpose. Greed will never make their lives improve, that goes for all who have made money from her death. That money will forever be laced with her blood. How does one live with that? Guess they can't make a buck on their own, so they have to profit off of a dead woman. Isn't there any shame in that?
bittersweet [Member] writes:
You're crazy bev. You must be one of those people who post with fifty-million different names so people will think there are more of you out there. Jerk! No one is happy that a woman was killed. We are angry beyond belief that the killer gets to walk free, and that an innocent man has to take the fall for it.
Is that so hard to understand?
Watch the trial, and if you have any semblance of a heart, you will be outraged too!!
Is that so hard to understand?
Watch the trial, and if you have any semblance of a heart, you will be outraged too!!
crusader [Member] writes:
cw2,
Have you listened to the trial, read the transcripts on CTV? Yes, I believe that JF was involved, but I also believe that others were as well. Who were ALL of JF's associates?...he had more than who we saw at the trial. I believe this was a cover-up, with more than just a few. I have faith in BG that this will come out someday. That's all I will say, nothing specific, I really don't know all facts, just what we heard at the trial, from locals that commented on my blogs, people I met in person, some locals who say that Truro LE had something to do with this crime. If it was a cop who killed CW & JF & co. where just there to provide smoke & mirrors as to a staged burglary, beat her up, than it's going to be very hard to prove. Cops very rarely go to jail, they know just how to avoid prison if they are bad cops. We know they cannot be put in prison with the general population of criminals...so my suggestion--build a prison for bad cops, bad DA's, bad judges, anyone who breaks the law, just don't give them the usual country club accomodations.
Have you listened to the trial, read the transcripts on CTV? Yes, I believe that JF was involved, but I also believe that others were as well. Who were ALL of JF's associates?...he had more than who we saw at the trial. I believe this was a cover-up, with more than just a few. I have faith in BG that this will come out someday. That's all I will say, nothing specific, I really don't know all facts, just what we heard at the trial, from locals that commented on my blogs, people I met in person, some locals who say that Truro LE had something to do with this crime. If it was a cop who killed CW & JF & co. where just there to provide smoke & mirrors as to a staged burglary, beat her up, than it's going to be very hard to prove. Cops very rarely go to jail, they know just how to avoid prison if they are bad cops. We know they cannot be put in prison with the general population of criminals...so my suggestion--build a prison for bad cops, bad DA's, bad judges, anyone who breaks the law, just don't give them the usual country club accomodations.
bevbybeach [Member] writes:
crusader, what are the initials you use over and over...who are dm, dc, and the others you keep bringing up as having done it or who are suspects, over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over?
who exactly is it that you suspect?
everyone?
except mcgowen and frazier?
your perogative, i guess.
it sounds as if you may be le not from cc, or just a fraud, or maybe someone well-intentioned, who knows, and that maybe you need a good dose of cc culture to cure you.
why not try solving the jon bennet ramsey case?
or some other case?
do you think oj did it?
who exactly is it that you suspect?
everyone?
except mcgowen and frazier?
your perogative, i guess.
it sounds as if you may be le not from cc, or just a fraud, or maybe someone well-intentioned, who knows, and that maybe you need a good dose of cc culture to cure you.
why not try solving the jon bennet ramsey case?
or some other case?
do you think oj did it?
bittersweet [Member] writes:
How about their own little island...Cape Crud.
cw2 [Member] writes:
crusader, miracles do occur. I agree with you that Frazier got away with murder due to his connections, if that's what you're implying. LE connections, not so sure. But at least now I know where you're coming from. (You use a lot of verbiage to get to your point! lol) And I pray he does not get away with it. I believe like Skakel he will ultimately be caught. Whatever it takes.
clamshelli [Visitor] writes:
ok well thanks beagle, I remember now, there was stuff missing. The phones receiver, yes. AND I also remember a blurry picture...of a couple at an ATM machine in Quincy...remember that? There was a question about her credit cards being used. And that couple, was said to look like the Whitey Bulger and his GF. Then ...like magic....all of sudden...POOF! Anything about the investigation up there, regarding her fathers girlfriend, beth porter, or her Dads involvement up there in "Whiteyland" just ....stopped cold....just went away...just like that.
clamshelli [Visitor] writes:
I dont remember anything about a laptop or diaries, except what Crusader has posted about her inside info. So that is hearsay, I guess. WEll, since Crusader and Bitter are here to fight the good fight, and turn off more people from listening....I think Ill get back into my game of World of Warcraft with my level 70 mage. Nite all.
bittersweet [Member] writes:
Crusader and I have been fighting the good fight for quite some time....while you've been away clamshelli.
And, if you don't like what I say, then stop using my words.
JC wanting to be on the "winning team" came from me, as did the dna that was supposed to "appease" the doubters. Not that I care, I'm just making a point.
Don't get on your high horse now cause you've come back.
You weren't here to recieve the really horrible abuse these people dished out, and you should read some of it if you think we are bad....so you can add yourself to the list of people who want us to just shut up and go away. Thanks for nothing.
And, if you don't like what I say, then stop using my words.
JC wanting to be on the "winning team" came from me, as did the dna that was supposed to "appease" the doubters. Not that I care, I'm just making a point.
Don't get on your high horse now cause you've come back.
You weren't here to recieve the really horrible abuse these people dished out, and you should read some of it if you think we are bad....so you can add yourself to the list of people who want us to just shut up and go away. Thanks for nothing.
clamshelli [Visitor] writes:
I rarely get any horrible abuse from people because I stick to the facts. I can back up just about anything I say with trial transcripts that people can see and read for themselves. I have not been "away" and have held my same beliefs since the begining of this whole mess. Its all about how you say stuff whether or not you can have an adult conversation or discussion with someone who disagrees with you. You two have infuriated people to the point where they just stop listening. So, for that, thank YOU for nothing.
http://www.boston.com/news/local/articles/2002/01/15/greineder_ex_escort_is_tied_to_truro_case/
http://www.boston.com/news/local/articles/2002/01/15/greineder_ex_escort_is_tied_to_truro_case/
clamshelli [Visitor] writes:
oh...and "your words"? Maybe you should make a list of "your words" so no one will "use" them. In fact, alot of "your words" I would never use, especially in an adult conversation.
crusader [Member] writes:
clamshelli,
one of the dear Wellfleetians said,"you saw how bad the cops trashed her place, of course the cops were involved", maybe you just don't want to face the facts that some of YOUR OWN are involved & if some know JF's family & you think they are great people, that's fine, still doesn't change the FACTS that Bob George brought out for all to see--as far as the Beth Porter connection, forget it, it's too far off the marker for this BRUTAL murder. Just another diversionary tactic like MF pulled with the DA on TA. There are MORE with STRONGER motives, but no one wants to go there. I believe this was a "hit" but on a local level having to do with drugs, blackmail & scorned women, it started out with "musical beds", ending in bloody murder. Some parents pay for their owns sins by evil deeds done by their children. Connect the dots people, all dots, & ones missing, who knows JF well enough to help in a conspiracy to murder? It doesn't start & stop at JF, he's just the middle man, in my opinion. Rumors abound, but you only want facts? Go find some if you can.
one of the dear Wellfleetians said,"you saw how bad the cops trashed her place, of course the cops were involved", maybe you just don't want to face the facts that some of YOUR OWN are involved & if some know JF's family & you think they are great people, that's fine, still doesn't change the FACTS that Bob George brought out for all to see--as far as the Beth Porter connection, forget it, it's too far off the marker for this BRUTAL murder. Just another diversionary tactic like MF pulled with the DA on TA. There are MORE with STRONGER motives, but no one wants to go there. I believe this was a "hit" but on a local level having to do with drugs, blackmail & scorned women, it started out with "musical beds", ending in bloody murder. Some parents pay for their owns sins by evil deeds done by their children. Connect the dots people, all dots, & ones missing, who knows JF well enough to help in a conspiracy to murder? It doesn't start & stop at JF, he's just the middle man, in my opinion. Rumors abound, but you only want facts? Go find some if you can.
clamshelli [Visitor] writes:
Some of MY OWN? What are you trying to say? You have your opinion..based on "what some people say". I have my opinion based on facts. I can argue mine and back it up. You cant. People will listen if you can back up what you say. They will turn a deaf ear and get angry and stop even trying make any progress in understanding if you go about trying to prove a point with gossip. It just doesnt work, and the response youve been getting proves that. Sorry.
crusader [Member] writes:
Well, there is PROOF that YOUR locals don't want to talk...that is one FACT you cannot dismiss. Frankly, I don't give a rat's ass what people think. I just want the truth to come out so that I can sleep at night, along with some others who's lives have been threatened for blogging about Christa Worthington. You tell me why that is, if the real killer is behind bars? What are they so afraid of, if they don't want us to continue to write about this story? What did CW have on the people involved in this murder? That's where you will find your killer. She was planning to move to Europe & was stopped. It's disgusting that people continue to seek profits off a woman who was brutally murdered. What is equally disgusting, is a large local community that turns a blind eye to the obvious cover-up. It's time to tell the public at large who really killed CW, & if the Cape wants to harbor killers, no one will want to spend their hardworking tourist dollars to go to a criminal compound filled with drug dealers, bad cops, & locals wielding knives at European tourists.
cw2 [Member] writes:
crusader, McGowen and Frazier were rats for state and local LE. Mulvey covered Frazier's ass at the trial with a false alibi as his father told him to do. All three were drug addicts and dealers ratting on others on CC, having been busted so many times for so many things, and cut a deal in lieu of more time with the State Police and Massachusetts Drug Task Force (which had at least a somewhat positive impact with the massive drug sting last year). You will never convince me of any conspiracy with LE except that they do not typically expose the rats. McGowen and Frazier did it, two dirtbags. Period. She was so trusting it's frightening how too such awful men could have betrayed her so badly.
clamshelli, the article suggests that she was deeply concerned about her father's behavior, which must have added her to already too high stress level. It's amazing how stupid and disgusting men with too much money still go for low-class prostitutes. Christa was not one of them.
So, crusader, enough with the 'musical beds' comment about her. You are derogatory.
clamshelli, the article suggests that she was deeply concerned about her father's behavior, which must have added her to already too high stress level. It's amazing how stupid and disgusting men with too much money still go for low-class prostitutes. Christa was not one of them.
So, crusader, enough with the 'musical beds' comment about her. You are derogatory.
clamshelli [Visitor] writes:
Talk is cheap, and if you cant back it up it means nothing. And the best way to put the pressure on to get this out in the open is get people TO LISTEN. I do give a rats butt what people think. I want then to see that this effects EVERYONE, and be outraged by that trial. I would drop the tourist thing too If I were you, first of all, its not true. None of this has effected the tourists, oh except the few that have asked around town..."can you give me directions to Depot Rd...we wanna drive by the Worthington house".
crusader [Member] writes:
cw2,
Sorry you feel that way, I'm not trying to be derogatory--FACT is FACT. Some like to sleep around on lower Cape, men & women. There is reason to believe that a cop was a jilted lover gone mad. It wouldn't be the first time a white cop killed a woman for sleeping with a black man & I'm sure it won't be the last. That may have been the equalizer-blackmail of drugs was her threat. I'm trying to piece this together with what I do know about this cop--none of it good, all bad. Maybe he just aided in the coverup. I want to know why witnesses came forward to tell police there was a cruiser idling at the bottom of CW's driveway on the night in question. Think about it, for months, years, witnesses came forward with information, but none of it ever came to light...not until BG discovered JF's involvement. Obviously, you want to save face of an island that can't bare all it's ugly secrets to the world. That's not acceptable. When it all comes out, I hope some of you will have the humility to admit you were wrong, because I know I am right. Changing of her WILL speaks volumes.
Sorry you feel that way, I'm not trying to be derogatory--FACT is FACT. Some like to sleep around on lower Cape, men & women. There is reason to believe that a cop was a jilted lover gone mad. It wouldn't be the first time a white cop killed a woman for sleeping with a black man & I'm sure it won't be the last. That may have been the equalizer-blackmail of drugs was her threat. I'm trying to piece this together with what I do know about this cop--none of it good, all bad. Maybe he just aided in the coverup. I want to know why witnesses came forward to tell police there was a cruiser idling at the bottom of CW's driveway on the night in question. Think about it, for months, years, witnesses came forward with information, but none of it ever came to light...not until BG discovered JF's involvement. Obviously, you want to save face of an island that can't bare all it's ugly secrets to the world. That's not acceptable. When it all comes out, I hope some of you will have the humility to admit you were wrong, because I know I am right. Changing of her WILL speaks volumes.
crusader [Member] writes:
What tourist thing?...the tourist who was held at knife point by JF? You want FACTS? How about the fact that JF has a lengthy criminal record, one of which was "assault with a deadly weapon" on the tourist from Europe who did not return to testify, was he paid a visit by Mason & Burke?
Or just tourists in general? Well I for one would not want to vacation in a place that harbors/condones local killers, local drug dealers & local drunk drivers, or people who threaten lives of bloggers that try to seek the truth about a woman who was brutally murdered. Maybe this is a message they send to all women who think that they can stand up to sociopaths. "You turn on us, we will take you out!"
And I don't think JF acted alone on this one, it goes higher than him in my opinion. He just happen to be stupid enough to participate in something he thought would earn him some criminal award status--maybe he was earning his freedom back from foreseeable jail time & he had to do this to save his sorry ass, who knows...but it's better to search for answers, than bury your head in quicksand.
Or just tourists in general? Well I for one would not want to vacation in a place that harbors/condones local killers, local drug dealers & local drunk drivers, or people who threaten lives of bloggers that try to seek the truth about a woman who was brutally murdered. Maybe this is a message they send to all women who think that they can stand up to sociopaths. "You turn on us, we will take you out!"
And I don't think JF acted alone on this one, it goes higher than him in my opinion. He just happen to be stupid enough to participate in something he thought would earn him some criminal award status--maybe he was earning his freedom back from foreseeable jail time & he had to do this to save his sorry ass, who knows...but it's better to search for answers, than bury your head in quicksand.
cw2 [Member] writes:
crusader, you state it, now believe it, fact is fact. Stop with your 'slut' routine and rumors. I know there are rare instances of LE officials who are as 'slow' and have as severe angry-management problems as McGowen's, but it's very rare; and also that there are possessive men, but jealous men kill the other male, not what he is fighting for. As for the undercover drug sting, that is fact. That McGowen and Frazier were rats and drug addicts/dealers who cut deals with LE are facts. That they and they alone killed Christa, fact. That LE was watching those two rats, fact. Gossipy cranky old people on CC are your facts. You are too much.
cw2 [Member] writes:
'crusader writes: Obviously, you want to save face of an island that can't bare all it's ugly secrets to the world.'
You and bitter are unspeakably offensive.
And that is not an ugly secret. That is what is obvious.
NEVER TELL ME WHAT I WANT! YOU DO NOT HAVE THAT RIGHT!
You and bitter are unspeakably offensive.
And that is not an ugly secret. That is what is obvious.
NEVER TELL ME WHAT I WANT! YOU DO NOT HAVE THAT RIGHT!
crusader [Member] writes:
Just because CM did drugs doesn't make him a killer....you must be among those trying to attempt to discredit those of us who know better..that's fine, you are entitled to your opinion. There are too many unanswered questions about this case that have yet to be answered. I don't know who you are, or how you draw your own conclusions with such conviction, but to me, this case hasn't even begun. There must be much at stake to keep this lid sealed as tight as the bullfrog..the locals know, & they also know what to say & what not to say....how much to say. Their famous line is, "we all have to live with one another on this island, so we learn to look the other way"....well this time it's going to come back & bite them in the b*lls.
Informants also do favors for people they work for....that's a FACT..you can take it from there & work your way down into the pits of hell to find the real conspirator(s)...or not. Just think about who may have benefited MOST by CW's demise. It's not a black trashman. And it's just too simple for it to be all on JF, there are others.
Informants also do favors for people they work for....that's a FACT..you can take it from there & work your way down into the pits of hell to find the real conspirator(s)...or not. Just think about who may have benefited MOST by CW's demise. It's not a black trashman. And it's just too simple for it to be all on JF, there are others.
cw2 [Member] writes:
crusader, from your words I picture you as oily, greasy, weasly, living in a gutter somehow, and liking it, yet angry about it. No facts from you, yet we are all going to suddenly be illuminated and enlightened by your brilliance, and be 'humiliated' by you. All of a sudden you have inside facts of Christa's will. You are jealous, really really angry jealous that other's have made money off of her and not you. Got it now. You are a B-B-B CCToday Manson freak.
A blowhard, jerk-off, hateful person who's got a serious axe to grind on any and everybody who'll listen to your anger-hate tall tales. Sort of like McGowen, Frazier, and Mulvey.
Your insinuations are projection. I think you did it.
CCToday/Editors: Getting your jollies? Boot this creep. Admits he/she has been booted from other sites and has even been threatened with harm because he/she is a freak.
The only ones that like to 'sleep around on the lower cape' and that hate LE are probably he/she and bitter.
They are giving CC and CCToday such a bad reputation.
A blowhard, jerk-off, hateful person who's got a serious axe to grind on any and everybody who'll listen to your anger-hate tall tales. Sort of like McGowen, Frazier, and Mulvey.
Your insinuations are projection. I think you did it.
CCToday/Editors: Getting your jollies? Boot this creep. Admits he/she has been booted from other sites and has even been threatened with harm because he/she is a freak.
The only ones that like to 'sleep around on the lower cape' and that hate LE are probably he/she and bitter.
They are giving CC and CCToday such a bad reputation.
crusader [Member] writes:
I know the people involved read these comments, too. Some of us are all the wiser since our long 5 year stay on the island. The readers can make up their own minds who they want to believe. But I know this case has tained Cape Cod forever, like it or not. Christa had friends in NY & Europe. People don't forget. She had enough recognition to have made her mark on the world, in life and death. Cape Cod can never take that away from her. She was somebody who didn't deserve this tragic outcome and people who did this to her should have to pay for the crimes committed against her.
cw2 [Member] writes:
'crusader (registered user) writes:
I know the people involved read these comments, too.'
Yeah, and laughing at you, while you threaten to 'humiliate' everyone because you are so 'special.'
You sound like a serial killer.
I know the people involved read these comments, too.'
Yeah, and laughing at you, while you threaten to 'humiliate' everyone because you are so 'special.'
You sound like a serial killer.
crusader [Member] writes:
cw2,
Maybe you are the one who is profitting off her death, in one way or the other. You think your vile words effect me? HA! I don't give a sh*t what you write and if the editors wish to keep it up because it increases a "Jerry Springer" audience, more power to them, who cares! What goes around, will come back around, and when it does, none of you will be surprised. It's just too bad that no one has the balls to stand up to those low-lifes.
Maybe you are the one who is profitting off her death, in one way or the other. You think your vile words effect me? HA! I don't give a sh*t what you write and if the editors wish to keep it up because it increases a "Jerry Springer" audience, more power to them, who cares! What goes around, will come back around, and when it does, none of you will be surprised. It's just too bad that no one has the balls to stand up to those low-lifes.
crusader [Member] writes:
maybe cw2 is trying to generate readership for the site....you go ahead and keep saying whatever...your the one who looks like the wacko.
bittersweet [Member] writes:
So what happens if crusader and I are booted? Then you all have the free-for-all, don't you? And no-one here to say Chris is innocent. Uh-Uh, not going to happen. And did you know clamshelli was booted off a site too? As was JC and Buzz.
Know what got me booted? These words; "The only thing you're catching are the idiot beams from your lord and master." That's it. But these two crybabies cry at everything. And they do it to intimidate, just like all of you.
And clamshelli, I have seen you get pretty angry when someone insults you, so you really have no room to talk.
An adult discussion?
This went off the adult train as soon as this thing started.
It's all about intimidation with you people, and why is that?
Listen to yourself cw2, and don't blame us for your raving.
But you're right about one thing, this subject does promote a lot of business, so why would the editors boot anyone?
After all, they want to make $$$.
So, why don't YOU all find a different subject to post at? I assure you, I won't be there. So now you know how to avoid me.
Know what got me booted? These words; "The only thing you're catching are the idiot beams from your lord and master." That's it. But these two crybabies cry at everything. And they do it to intimidate, just like all of you.
And clamshelli, I have seen you get pretty angry when someone insults you, so you really have no room to talk.
An adult discussion?
This went off the adult train as soon as this thing started.
It's all about intimidation with you people, and why is that?
Listen to yourself cw2, and don't blame us for your raving.
But you're right about one thing, this subject does promote a lot of business, so why would the editors boot anyone?
After all, they want to make $$$.
So, why don't YOU all find a different subject to post at? I assure you, I won't be there. So now you know how to avoid me.
cw2 [Member] writes:
CCToday/Editors: You have the same goals for CCToday as crusader? The 'Jerry Springer Show'? He/she has his/her own sick crusade of hate going on, and it's his/her own personal crusade of hate against, mmmm, everyone. He/she sees conspiracies everywhere, complete paranoia. From these comments, crusader is a seriously disturbed, potentially dangerous, unfulfilled and unsuccessful LE official, who is and has been ruining your website, as he/she has done and has been removed from others.
These comments have been copied and posted elsewhere, for others' opinions.
The Black Plague continues on CCToday. Please reveal this schizo's identity so we can lock him/her up before he/she really does some damage.
These comments have been copied and posted elsewhere, for others' opinions.
The Black Plague continues on CCToday. Please reveal this schizo's identity so we can lock him/her up before he/she really does some damage.
tillman3 [Member] writes:
Buzz (registered user) writes:
bittersweet,
How can you remain credible? You say "I am the biggest bitch in the world at going after men who abuse woman" What about the 5 restraining orders from 5 different women that CM had against him. What a hypocrite.'
bittersweet,
How can you remain credible? You say "I am the biggest bitch in the world at going after men who abuse woman" What about the 5 restraining orders from 5 different women that CM had against him. What a hypocrite.'
clamshelli [Visitor] writes:
Well now now.....this a perfect example of what you have done for this case. If you and Crusader were booted, I would still be here saying that the case is a sham, and that LE lied and manipulated the evidence and the jury, and that they are covering up something bigger...BUT you now have even alienated someone on your own side. Nice. And yes, I do get angry, but I still can convey that anger without name calling or vulgar language. Oh yeah, you cant see that you are just sowing more hate and anger for your CM. Do ya really think thats helping??? Comon think about it. ARE YOU HELPING? NO youre not, but you just cant see that.
crusader [Member] writes:
You think your lame threats bother me? I could give two sh*ts. What has been done to me has made me all that much stronger & I will never let this story go until the truth comes out.
bittersweet, just let them be miserable. you must know by now that some people who post on this site are viciously cruel & stupid. They are nothing but schoolyard bullies who don't know how to grow up. They have nothing better to do on a cold, lonely island in winter. IGNORE THEM. THEY ARE NOT WORTH THE ENERGY. Just hope there are some readers who continue to support CM & know the truth about the corrupt system on CC, along with that towel wearing rogue that calls himself a DA, that wacko writer who's only victory was to marry an older man, who has tenure at Emerson, knows the world of publishing, can pull strings for a nobody writer for a wife & one who thought she could compete with CW--what a joke & the rest of the phonies. Must be time for another broadcast of 48 hrs. or Dateline, aren't the bank accounts getting low again. I'm not a fan of Manso, but I hope he gets the truth out.
bittersweet, just let them be miserable. you must know by now that some people who post on this site are viciously cruel & stupid. They are nothing but schoolyard bullies who don't know how to grow up. They have nothing better to do on a cold, lonely island in winter. IGNORE THEM. THEY ARE NOT WORTH THE ENERGY. Just hope there are some readers who continue to support CM & know the truth about the corrupt system on CC, along with that towel wearing rogue that calls himself a DA, that wacko writer who's only victory was to marry an older man, who has tenure at Emerson, knows the world of publishing, can pull strings for a nobody writer for a wife & one who thought she could compete with CW--what a joke & the rest of the phonies. Must be time for another broadcast of 48 hrs. or Dateline, aren't the bank accounts getting low again. I'm not a fan of Manso, but I hope he gets the truth out.
bittersweet [Member] writes:
You do not think he is innocent clamshelli. You would have him let out with time served for his part in it.
And you alienated me already when you fawned over Athene. You know, the one who said there was "a mountain of evidence" in this case?
So, you want at it? Go for it.
And, for the fourth time at least... two in the past two days...
I was there with 2 of those restraining orders. I know they were bogus. People were pushed by the police to make them.
That makes me suspicious of the other three. Hypocrite? No, just going by my EXPERIENCE of the situation.
AS I'm sure all of you do when you talk about Christopher McCowen, since I'm sure you all know him.
But, the last thing I want to do is hurt him, so I'll take your advice.
You can ll have your nice, pleasant converation about Chris's "amount of guilt" in this thing.
I say he's TOTALLY innocent, and the fact that he's in that place makes my skin crawl.
God Bless the America of my childhood. The adults that I grew up around would not have let this happen.
Later For You.
And you alienated me already when you fawned over Athene. You know, the one who said there was "a mountain of evidence" in this case?
So, you want at it? Go for it.
And, for the fourth time at least... two in the past two days...
I was there with 2 of those restraining orders. I know they were bogus. People were pushed by the police to make them.
That makes me suspicious of the other three. Hypocrite? No, just going by my EXPERIENCE of the situation.
AS I'm sure all of you do when you talk about Christopher McCowen, since I'm sure you all know him.
But, the last thing I want to do is hurt him, so I'll take your advice.
You can ll have your nice, pleasant converation about Chris's "amount of guilt" in this thing.
I say he's TOTALLY innocent, and the fact that he's in that place makes my skin crawl.
God Bless the America of my childhood. The adults that I grew up around would not have let this happen.
Later For You.
clamshelli [Visitor] writes:
Well I am sorry but I am more outraged about the lies and manipulation done by LE in this case. THAT effects ALL OF US, not just CM. All I want is the truth, not just to free CM. If they were to call a mistrial tomorrow and he was freed, are you done? Are you happy with that??? Im not. Its not about freeing CM to me. Its the judicial system and our law enforcement that effects US ALL...not JUST CM. And yes, you are most definately hurting his chances for getting out. MAYBE you finally GET IT. I dont dispute your story about the RO's, I know people know how to manipulate those in order to get housing..whatever. And yes, I can see the police pushing for them. I DONT DISPUTE THAT. I am just sick of seeing you do more damage to YOU OWN CAUSE..and your own friend. This is bigger than you two. I was able to have a productive discussion with someone who disagreed with me, and that doesnt sit well with you....too bad. Take a lesson, THAT may help. Again you are not.
usgju [Member] writes:
The feds never reveal the identity of informants. That's why informants are called rats. Frazier will be caught and prosecuted. Not three blind mice, three blind rats. When is Frazier leaving town? Keep track of that rat. We still are.
usgju [Member] writes:
Someone on the editorial board must have noticed that crusader's language signifies someone who is very mentally ill, possibly a local resident with a long history of grudges; if so, think liability when this person finally snaps. cw2 is right, anyone with this type of paranoia with a need to prove 'brilliance' and 'humiliate' everyone else is, in fact, posting possible threats. Ask crusader about guns. Forensic pathology before the fact. Bittersweet, just simple-minded. crusader, dangerous. Look into the guns. My bet, there's an arsenal.
capewatchdog [Member] writes:
Remember the old expression "You must be the milkmans kid", Well, they don't deliver milk anymore! Only leaves one weekly service! To bad the other DNA was never identified! (Or was it?) How many cell calls made to State Police? Huh!
clamshelli [Visitor] writes:
Since this somehow didnt make it to the CCTimes. I thought Id post it here. But no worries, the DA's office is investigating.....yup.
http://www1.whdh.com/news/articles/local/BO66615/
http://www1.whdh.com/news/articles/local/BO66615/
Buzz [Member] writes:
What do you think clamshelli? Think its the body of the "real" killer?
clamshelli [Visitor] writes:
Gee...dont know Buzz...but Im sure we will get the whole story from the DA's investigation. Nothing in the midday breaking news on CConline eitha.....
clamshelli [Visitor] writes:
Oops! I stand corrected. Their midday update was 12 minutes late. You can read it now on CConline.
mlee [Member] writes:
clamshelli, I'm no fan of the Times, but I have to defend them this time. They DID have the article about the body found at sea. In fact, they had it in a rare Sunday 'Mid-Day Update' yesterday.
Buzz [Member] writes:
It sounds like your defending them (the CCT) when you should be defending yourself for being wrong.
wolfram [Member] writes:
Actually, a blogger on cape cod today (Mahler) had a posting yesterday around noon, looks like his brother was on board:
http://www.capecodtoday.com/blogs/
index.php/MahlersMusic/2007/11/11/
sleeping_with_the_fishes
You have to put the link back together for it to work.
http://www.capecodtoday.com/blogs/
index.php/MahlersMusic/2007/11/11/
sleeping_with_the_fishes
You have to put the link back together for it to work.
clamshelli [Visitor] writes:
Well then mlee, I stand corrected again. And yes, Buzz, I was wrong. That does happen to some of now and again.
clamshelli [Visitor] writes:
Buzz, if you're wrong, ya cant defend yourself. So I will defend CCT, since I was wrong. Make any sense to you?
Buzz [Member] writes:
It makes as much sense as most of the comments I've seen on this blog....what does that tell you?
clamshelli [Visitor] writes:
Buzz,
It tells me that it doesnt make any sense to you, and you just cant grab the concept of admitting when you are wrong.
It tells me that it doesnt make any sense to you, and you just cant grab the concept of admitting when you are wrong.
clamshelli [Visitor] writes:
GRASP.....should have said...you just cant grasp the concept of admitting when youre wrong. yeah...thats it.
Buzz [Member] writes:
"DA's office is investigating.....yup."
Initial reports say it could possibly have been a burial at sea....or was it???? Let's just see if we can weave this little tidbit into the Worthington murder. One of the fishing boats in the area said he saw a black trawler quickly leave the scene hours before they found the body...hmmmmmmm.
Initial reports say it could possibly have been a burial at sea....or was it???? Let's just see if we can weave this little tidbit into the Worthington murder. One of the fishing boats in the area said he saw a black trawler quickly leave the scene hours before they found the body...hmmmmmmm.
blackoncapecod [Member] writes:
listen im a black man on cape cod that has been dating white women for 13 yrs,soi dont know why its such a shock that she sneaks around with a black trash man it happens all the time.one of the white women that i dated didnt tell her parents for a long time due to the fact the way some people think oh and yes she was from a very rich family. let me state that i dont think the man is totally guilty because he placed himself at the murder,and secondly i personally know one the other person that was suppose to be with him, i wont call any names JEREMY FRAZIER AND I DONT PUT SHIT PASS HIM. he is a known art thief and he will pull a knife on u if u get into it wih him. if u ask me all the stuff from the ladies house ended up in the back of one of those dumpsters that his father owns or is buried in new hampshire, but let us not forget that he was never a suspect. i also know for a fact that he is also a paid informant for the police, but he is also white. dont get me wrong im nt racist i just know injustice.they will b looking for me tomorrow because i wrote this blog just watch and see.
clamshelli [Visitor] writes:
blackoncapecod,
Do you mind if I ask you.....Do you think Frazier was used by other people to think he was just doing a B&E, and setting up MC for it - Not realizing what he was really setting up?
Do you mind if I ask you.....Do you think Frazier was used by other people to think he was just doing a B&E, and setting up MC for it - Not realizing what he was really setting up?
crusader [Member] writes:
blackoncapecod:
thanks for your post! people need to hear what you have to say. what else can you tell us? it's important that people come forward to tell the otherside of this twisted story. send me an email. you say her stuff is buried in nh, eh? well doesn't that beat all. paid informant you say? well, I remember a certain member of LE testifying that he was not. yeah, watch your back my friend.
thanks for your post! people need to hear what you have to say. what else can you tell us? it's important that people come forward to tell the otherside of this twisted story. send me an email. you say her stuff is buried in nh, eh? well doesn't that beat all. paid informant you say? well, I remember a certain member of LE testifying that he was not. yeah, watch your back my friend.
Jeff [Member] writes:
maybe JF has the missing 10Gs...having some experience on the wrong side of a JF-type, the town hosting the sting sometimes serves as a cut-out, so SP can say, No, We weren't paying him...the town does through a special account with no oversight...at least that's how they did it in Orleans when Dave Hagstrom was still running narcs through his drug outfit, the OPD.
crusader [Member] writes:
Jeff,
thanks for the input. Interesting how NH plays into this story: DM bury's a headless/handless body in NH, May 1990, Truro cop goes to NH sometime during the weekend of CW's murder and is told to come back asap, and now we hear "the ladies stuff may be buried in NH"....what stuff might that be? the phone, the laptop, the butcher block....anything else? what a tangled web....dirty deeds done dirt cheap....just how much does it cost to wack someone.....is 10g's really enough ? No amount of money can ever take it away. Maybe drug dealers/and drug addicts are brain dead.
thanks for the input. Interesting how NH plays into this story: DM bury's a headless/handless body in NH, May 1990, Truro cop goes to NH sometime during the weekend of CW's murder and is told to come back asap, and now we hear "the ladies stuff may be buried in NH"....what stuff might that be? the phone, the laptop, the butcher block....anything else? what a tangled web....dirty deeds done dirt cheap....just how much does it cost to wack someone.....is 10g's really enough ? No amount of money can ever take it away. Maybe drug dealers/and drug addicts are brain dead.
groovy [Member] writes:
As far as the shower/no shower. The internal DNA could/would still be there + the lab showed that it was the minor contributor to the sample (CW being the major) and it was "degraded" (meaning "old") - so, that is in line with it being from Thursday. As far as the DNA on her breasts - that was such a small amount (and it was NOT saliva) that it could have been tracked in by Ava from the living room (the room he claims to have been in on Thursday) - We know Ava spent some time that weekend in the living room because there was a tape pushed in and the TV on, bloody finger prints around & since she was nursing, it would end up on the victim's breast. Transfer DNA, very possible, I think.
crusader [Member] writes:
Jeff,
Just how many drug addicts does it take to pull of a conspiracy to murder?
Just how many drug addicts does it take to pull of a conspiracy to murder?
crusader [Member] writes:
Jeff,
Tell us more about this Dave....so many Dave's....so little information.
Manso mentioned CW was seen at the Bradford & Squealing Pig on Friday night, and she's caught on video at S&S early that day, same parking lot that Mazzone met with CM later that Monday. I wonder if CW was being stalked at the S&S...who did she meet at the bars Manso mentions....who was the last person to see CW alive? How much does it take to have a clear conscience? Will never be enough I'm afraid. What does the chief know that he isn't telling? Who's got the goods on the chief? Small towns, big secrets.
Tell us more about this Dave....so many Dave's....so little information.
Manso mentioned CW was seen at the Bradford & Squealing Pig on Friday night, and she's caught on video at S&S early that day, same parking lot that Mazzone met with CM later that Monday. I wonder if CW was being stalked at the S&S...who did she meet at the bars Manso mentions....who was the last person to see CW alive? How much does it take to have a clear conscience? Will never be enough I'm afraid. What does the chief know that he isn't telling? Who's got the goods on the chief? Small towns, big secrets.
clamshelli [Visitor] writes:
Jeff,
You say a "special account with no oversight"? Does that mean that the Town of Truro never has to account for that money missing? Are we going to hear about that missing money? Who is going to make them account for it? Im only asking these questions because I have no clue. Thanks in advance.
You say a "special account with no oversight"? Does that mean that the Town of Truro never has to account for that money missing? Are we going to hear about that missing money? Who is going to make them account for it? Im only asking these questions because I have no clue. Thanks in advance.
clamshelli [Visitor] writes:
Just thinking....Officer Ojia (sp?) was called to the stand to testify about the meeting in the Stop & Shop parking lot with CM. Mazzone was the one that busted CM for the bong, but let him off if he would "give someone up". So, why wasnt Mazzone himself called to the stand to testify since it was his deal. Oja testified that Mazzone asked him to come to that meeting as a witness. I got the feeling that he was reluctant, but went anyway. Was Mazzone on that list of people who's "lives could be ruined" if they were called - so they werent? We know that Mazzone left Wellfleet shortly after the murder, and is now in Florida *cough, but the cost to travel to Florida to get that alibi must have been worth it though,..interesting.
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Christopher McCowen is being tried for the brutal murder of fashion writer Christa Worthington. This blog aggregates the news about the trial and offer readers the opportunity to give their opinions.
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Easy to do when you control the evidence and the crime scene, huh?
Hey jc, what took you so long?
Why the change in attitude? Just curious.