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US Interior Secretary Sees Cape Wind Decision By Year-End
11/02/09 · 3:01 pm :: posted by CCToday
End of nearly decade-long struggle in sight for Cape Wind project
Questions by Clean Power Now director Barbara Hill prompt reaction
"It is our hope that ... we will be able to get to the point where we would have the final decision to hopefully be made by the end of the year," Salazar told reporters on the sidelines of a clean energy economy forum at the White House.
In an online news conference today, U.S. Interior Secretary Ken Salazar said a decision will be made by the end of this year on whether the go ahead will be given to the massive Cape Wind electricity project off the shore of Massachusetts.
Salazar said the Interior Department is currently consulting with state agencies, including the state historic preservation office, and the final decision will be made "hopefully by the end of this year."
Clean Power Now exectutive director Barbara Hill asked the sectretary, "86% of people in Massachusetts want to see this project built. I live on Cape Cod and I want to see this project built. When can we expect a Record of Decision from the Department of the Interior?"
The controversial project has faced major delays as local residents raised numerous objections, becoming an emblem of the problem the Obama administration faces trying to transform the nation's energy economy to more reliance on renewable energy sources.
Read today New York Times Editorial on Cape Wind.
90 comments
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sarahfromsandwich [Member] writes:
Misinformation like what you are spreading may be exactly why Cape Wind has taken 8 years to get to this point. Electricity rates will be competitive with current rates and wind energy offers stable prices-unlike the fluctuating and rising fuel costs associated with fossil fuels.
Cape Wind is the Cape and Island's first major step towards being a more sustainable community and the majority of local residents support it. Luckily the battle is almost over and people like Barbara Hill are getting the word out about this crucial project.
Cape Wind is the Cape and Island's first major step towards being a more sustainable community and the majority of local residents support it. Luckily the battle is almost over and people like Barbara Hill are getting the word out about this crucial project.
insubordinate [Member] writes:
Maverick, I, for the life of me, don't know why Walter allows you to continue to write lies and exaggerations in your comments. It demeans the whole publication. You're a poster child for why the Cape Cod Times had to give up reader comments.
maverick [Member] writes:
sarah...what misinformation?
Wind rates have not been competitive all over the world. Why here?
Your infomercial "first major step towards being a more sustainable community". Please explain. HUUUH?
PS...Sarah...did you just leave happy hour at the "400" to stumble home to your computer?
Wind rates have not been competitive all over the world. Why here?
Your infomercial "first major step towards being a more sustainable community". Please explain. HUUUH?
PS...Sarah...did you just leave happy hour at the "400" to stumble home to your computer?
maverick [Member] writes:
insubordinate..."write lies and exaggerations".
Please list my lies and exaggerations.
Thanks,
Jack
Please list my lies and exaggerations.
Thanks,
Jack
sarahfromsandwich [Member] writes:
I think being home to America’s first offshore wind farm, getting an average of 75% of our electricity from a renewable resource qualifies as “being a more sustainable community.” If Cape Wind is not able to sell its electricity (as you stated) then it simply won’t come to fruition. Wind energy has no fuel cost and will supply rate-payers with stable long-term prices.
margebunny21 [Member] writes:
Maverick:
You claim Cape Wind is a "radar hazard".
If Cape Wind were a "radar hazard" it wouldn't be allowed to operate near an Air Force installation like PAVE PAWS.
If you were in the military as an OFFICER like you claim, then you know damn well this is a fact but your NANTUCKET SOUND
"charterboat business" will suffer when Cape Wind gets built and you know that, too.
Asking for an unbiased opinion about Cape Wind from a guy like you is like asking for an unbiased henhouse report from FOX news.
You insult the commenters who don't oblige your antiquated narcissism and while masquerading as a red-white-and-blue patriot, you'll gladly insult the President of the U.S.A. if you feel like it.
You're a motivated liar supporting a dishonest cause funded by liars.
The post by CCToday above states that you are a "regular abuser"
and since your business is INVOLVED with Nantucket Sound, these two facts alone testify that your opinion has no value in this
issue whatsoever.
You claim Cape Wind is a "radar hazard".
If Cape Wind were a "radar hazard" it wouldn't be allowed to operate near an Air Force installation like PAVE PAWS.
If you were in the military as an OFFICER like you claim, then you know damn well this is a fact but your NANTUCKET SOUND
"charterboat business" will suffer when Cape Wind gets built and you know that, too.
Asking for an unbiased opinion about Cape Wind from a guy like you is like asking for an unbiased henhouse report from FOX news.
You insult the commenters who don't oblige your antiquated narcissism and while masquerading as a red-white-and-blue patriot, you'll gladly insult the President of the U.S.A. if you feel like it.
You're a motivated liar supporting a dishonest cause funded by liars.
The post by CCToday above states that you are a "regular abuser"
and since your business is INVOLVED with Nantucket Sound, these two facts alone testify that your opinion has no value in this
issue whatsoever.
maverick [Member] writes:
sarah...you stated I spread misinformation. Stop the infomercial please.
What misinformation?
What misinformation?
margebunny21 [Member] writes:
RE: "regular abuser" is on this thread:
http://www.capecodtoday.com/blogs/index.php/2009/10/29/wind-energy-is-a-must?blog=94
http://www.capecodtoday.com/blogs/index.php/2009/10/29/wind-energy-is-a-must?blog=94
bittersweet [Member] writes:
We're paying exhorbitant prices now...and what do we get in return?
Black smoke, lung disease, asthma, stomache ailments from drinking the water, shortened life-spans and a torn up, abused, mistreated Earth.
Gee...thanks.
Oh yeah, I forgot...and big huge profits in about a handful of pockets. What a deal.
Black smoke, lung disease, asthma, stomache ailments from drinking the water, shortened life-spans and a torn up, abused, mistreated Earth.
Gee...thanks.
Oh yeah, I forgot...and big huge profits in about a handful of pockets. What a deal.
sarahfromsandwich [Member] writes:
You stated that Cape Wind won't be able to sell their electricity. I doubt that Cape Wind has dedicated 8 years to getting their project permitted only to discover that they can not sell the electricity.
sarahfromsandwich [Member] writes:
Excellent point bittersweet! There are so many costs to factor into our electricity bills! "The energy market has never been free — large energy producers such as coal and oil have always been able to win government subsidies of various kinds. To take just one example, the federal government has paid out $35 billion over the past 30 years to cover the medical expenses of coal miners who suffer from "black lung disease." These subsidies mean that the true cost of coal is not reflected in its market price." awea.org
maverick [Member] writes:
marge...to set the record straight Cape Wind would have no effect whatsoever on my charter business. And at my age I don't think I will charter much longer.
Curious...your statement "You're a motivated liar supporting a dishonest
cause funded by liars."
Please tell me when I have lied?
Curious...your statement "You're a motivated liar supporting a dishonest
cause funded by liars."
Please tell me when I have lied?
maverick [Member] writes:
Sarah...they don't have a PPA" Power Purchase Agreement". If and when they do you or I will be correct. In the interim I have my opinion and you have yours.
maverick [Member] writes:
bitter..."We're paying exhorbitant prices now...and what do we get in return? Black smoke, lung disease, asthma, stomache ailments from drinking the water, shortened life-spans and a torn up, abused, mistreated Earth.
Gee...thanks."
bitta...you elected them. Why do you piss all over the rest of us on this site? I am here to voice my opinion. You folks are here to scream and yell about the a$$holes you elected.
Please look in the mirror before you blame anyone else.
Gee...thanks."
bitta...you elected them. Why do you piss all over the rest of us on this site? I am here to voice my opinion. You folks are here to scream and yell about the a$$holes you elected.
Please look in the mirror before you blame anyone else.
maverick [Member] writes:
"Maverick:
You claim Cape Wind is a "radar hazard".
If Cape Wind were a "radar hazard" it would'nt be allowed to operate near an Air Force
installation like PAVE PAWS."
Correct...that is why it hasn't been approved.
You claim Cape Wind is a "radar hazard".
If Cape Wind were a "radar hazard" it would'nt be allowed to operate near an Air Force
installation like PAVE PAWS."
Correct...that is why it hasn't been approved.
Peter Walker [Member] writes:
"If you were in the military as an OFFICER like you claim, then you know damn well this is a fact..."
So marge, you are qualified to make this statement because.....?
I was in the service and have lots o' experience with radar, hell I even own a couple but I wasn't a scope dope so I am obviously not as well versed as you in the technicalities.
Perhaps you could first qualify your statement about mav and then educate those of us who aren't quite as knowledgeable in this field as you.
So marge, you are qualified to make this statement because.....?
I was in the service and have lots o' experience with radar, hell I even own a couple but I wasn't a scope dope so I am obviously not as well versed as you in the technicalities.
Perhaps you could first qualify your statement about mav and then educate those of us who aren't quite as knowledgeable in this field as you.
bittersweet [Member] writes:
"bitta...you elected them"
WHOA!!! I did NOT vote for the Bush/Cheney Big oil cabal. Not in a million years. oh my god, I just had a flashing pain in my brain at the thought of it.
It's not ME who was cheerleading that episode of Dallas...not me.
Nor would I have voted for Reagan or Bush One. All oil men as well...well, Reagan may have played one in the movies, but what the hell..he played at being President too.(did I say that?)
And yes, I can blame myself for leaving lights on, having the tv and radio going at the same time, taking too long showers, having a real warm house....but voting them in?
Oh no...that was YOUR persuasion. And as you can see, the big cigar-smoking blow-hards just won't go away!!
WHOA!!! I did NOT vote for the Bush/Cheney Big oil cabal. Not in a million years. oh my god, I just had a flashing pain in my brain at the thought of it.
It's not ME who was cheerleading that episode of Dallas...not me.
Nor would I have voted for Reagan or Bush One. All oil men as well...well, Reagan may have played one in the movies, but what the hell..he played at being President too.(did I say that?)
And yes, I can blame myself for leaving lights on, having the tv and radio going at the same time, taking too long showers, having a real warm house....but voting them in?
Oh no...that was YOUR persuasion. And as you can see, the big cigar-smoking blow-hards just won't go away!!
maverick [Member] writes:
Where have Sarah and the bunny disappeared to?
On the attack one moment and when their comments are questioned they evaporate.
bitta...did you vote for the racist Obama?
On the attack one moment and when their comments are questioned they evaporate.
bitta...did you vote for the racist Obama?
dkfalmouth [Member] writes:
Maverick,
If Cape Wind is built, it will sell its power. First, it will only be built if it gets one or more PPAs. So, if it is built, it'll sell via those PPAs.
Then, on days when it has excess power, it will big $0 on ISO's day ahead market (because it has no fuel cost).
And, since all sales of power in New England are done competitively, if it's built CW will sell at market rates.
The relevant question is: "If it's built, will CW make any money from is sales?". And that is a very good question. Everything I've seen indicates that the cost of offshore power is too high to enable CW to be competitive. Of course, since it's a private company, CW does not have to publish its financial projections. So I don't know what Gordon has up his sleeve.
Overall: If it's built, CW will sell all or most of its power. But whether or not it'll be profitable is the question.
If Cape Wind is built, it will sell its power. First, it will only be built if it gets one or more PPAs. So, if it is built, it'll sell via those PPAs.
Then, on days when it has excess power, it will big $0 on ISO's day ahead market (because it has no fuel cost).
And, since all sales of power in New England are done competitively, if it's built CW will sell at market rates.
The relevant question is: "If it's built, will CW make any money from is sales?". And that is a very good question. Everything I've seen indicates that the cost of offshore power is too high to enable CW to be competitive. Of course, since it's a private company, CW does not have to publish its financial projections. So I don't know what Gordon has up his sleeve.
Overall: If it's built, CW will sell all or most of its power. But whether or not it'll be profitable is the question.
dkfalmouth [Member] writes:
Everyone, let's try to be accurate when we talk about the current status of Cape Wind and radar/the FAA:
Whenever the FAA investigates something it announces a "Presumed Hazard" (PH). This does not mean that there is a hazard, but it's the FAA's way of being careful while it investigates. When the FAA completes an investigation it announces a hazard or it lifts the PH.
The FAA has announced a PH for Cape Wind. We won't know if there really is a hazard until they're finished.
The FAA has said that Cape Wind could cause "clutter" with one or more of the antiquated radar installations of the Cape and Islands. However, they've said that this problem should be correctable with either a $3 million or a $15 million investment by Cape Wind. Cape Wind would certainly pay this if necessary.
Of course, the FAA could announce further findings of a more critical nature. But so far, all the FAA has described is a very correctable problem.
In other words: This is NOT a big deal for CW. Don't believe those who make a big deal of this at this point.
Whenever the FAA investigates something it announces a "Presumed Hazard" (PH). This does not mean that there is a hazard, but it's the FAA's way of being careful while it investigates. When the FAA completes an investigation it announces a hazard or it lifts the PH.
The FAA has announced a PH for Cape Wind. We won't know if there really is a hazard until they're finished.
The FAA has said that Cape Wind could cause "clutter" with one or more of the antiquated radar installations of the Cape and Islands. However, they've said that this problem should be correctable with either a $3 million or a $15 million investment by Cape Wind. Cape Wind would certainly pay this if necessary.
Of course, the FAA could announce further findings of a more critical nature. But so far, all the FAA has described is a very correctable problem.
In other words: This is NOT a big deal for CW. Don't believe those who make a big deal of this at this point.
Tom Martin [Member] writes:
anyone know what happens with these big wind towers if things dont work out after they are built?
dkfalmouth [Member] writes:
Tom,
What you're really asking is: "What will happen if Cape Wind goes broke?". This is a good question because it's not obvious that the project is economically viable.
In order to obtain its lease of Horseshoe Shoals from the Feds, CW will have to obtain a Bond which is basically an insurance policy that insures the public against:
- Cape Wind not being able to complete construction.
- Bankruptcy, and the need to dismantle the wind farm after construction.
I tried to learn the details of this Bond requirement once but was unsuccessful. The most that I could learn is that the Cape Wind bond would be very similar to bonds that have been used by offshore oil drillers for decades.
By the way, if CW can't obtain such a bond, the wind farm won't be built. If it is built, the public will be protected by the bond.
One last thing: Nobody knows how Mark Gordon plans to make money from Cape Wind. Believe me, the bond companies will ask that question. If he can't show them that he can make money then: No bond and no wind farm.
What you're really asking is: "What will happen if Cape Wind goes broke?". This is a good question because it's not obvious that the project is economically viable.
In order to obtain its lease of Horseshoe Shoals from the Feds, CW will have to obtain a Bond which is basically an insurance policy that insures the public against:
- Cape Wind not being able to complete construction.
- Bankruptcy, and the need to dismantle the wind farm after construction.
I tried to learn the details of this Bond requirement once but was unsuccessful. The most that I could learn is that the Cape Wind bond would be very similar to bonds that have been used by offshore oil drillers for decades.
By the way, if CW can't obtain such a bond, the wind farm won't be built. If it is built, the public will be protected by the bond.
One last thing: Nobody knows how Mark Gordon plans to make money from Cape Wind. Believe me, the bond companies will ask that question. If he can't show them that he can make money then: No bond and no wind farm.
dkfalmouth [Member] writes:
Tom,
One more thing: There's no question about the turbines working from an engineering perspective. Europe has hundreds of them in production.
One more thing: There's no question about the turbines working from an engineering perspective. Europe has hundreds of them in production.
Ana Paulina [Member] writes:
Feel free to install a beta version in my back yard.
dkfalmouth [Member] writes:
Ana,
Alpha through Omega are operating quite well thank you in Europe and China.
Alpha through Omega are operating quite well thank you in Europe and China.
Chuck Kleekamp [Member] writes:
On Cape Wind, PAVE PAWS radar and Air Navigation.
Old myths keep reappearing. It’s been so long since the Missile Defense Agency issued its review on November 16, 2007 folks forget. Their third and final release 2007-11-16-01 said: “The Air Force review of the Cape Wind Project’s proposed turbine farm in Nantucket Sound found no impact on the PAVE PAWS radar operations.”
As a further note, at the final Minerals Management Service hearing for Cape Wind in Boston in March of 2008, Mr. Dan Wolf, a 30 year pilot who is the Chief Executive Officer and founder of Cape Air and Nantucket Airlines, testified that the project will not have a negative impact on air navigation. Cape Air is the largest independent regional airline in the U.S. and carries over 700,000 passengers a year in Massachusetts.
For the third time, the FAA is reviewing the impact. Rather than speculate and get in a tizzy on their future findings, let’s just wait and see.
Chuck Kleekamp, P.E. Ret.
President, Clean Power Now
Old myths keep reappearing. It’s been so long since the Missile Defense Agency issued its review on November 16, 2007 folks forget. Their third and final release 2007-11-16-01 said: “The Air Force review of the Cape Wind Project’s proposed turbine farm in Nantucket Sound found no impact on the PAVE PAWS radar operations.”
As a further note, at the final Minerals Management Service hearing for Cape Wind in Boston in March of 2008, Mr. Dan Wolf, a 30 year pilot who is the Chief Executive Officer and founder of Cape Air and Nantucket Airlines, testified that the project will not have a negative impact on air navigation. Cape Air is the largest independent regional airline in the U.S. and carries over 700,000 passengers a year in Massachusetts.
For the third time, the FAA is reviewing the impact. Rather than speculate and get in a tizzy on their future findings, let’s just wait and see.
Chuck Kleekamp, P.E. Ret.
President, Clean Power Now
Ana Paulina [Member] writes:
"let’s just wait and see." said the wise man.
dkfalmouth [Member] writes:
Ana,
Wise men and women are willing to learn from experience. Your comment is cute but if you're not willing to accept that these offshore turbines work then you're playing "blind man's bluff".
Now, if you want to doubt that they can turn a profit and prevent a company that employs them from going bankrupt then you're on more solid ground.
But they've been operating these turbines very successfully offshore for many years now in Europe.
Wise men and women are willing to learn from experience. Your comment is cute but if you're not willing to accept that these offshore turbines work then you're playing "blind man's bluff".
Now, if you want to doubt that they can turn a profit and prevent a company that employs them from going bankrupt then you're on more solid ground.
But they've been operating these turbines very successfully offshore for many years now in Europe.
Ana Paulina [Member] writes:
dkfalmouth, you don't need to justify the consumer confidence tactic with me, I personally am very found of wind chimes.
Ana Paulina [Member] writes:
*correction (fond) for those who have an egoism for slight error.
jane.logan [Member] writes:
dkfalmouth - Since I'm an insurance broker I've tried for years to find out what insurance and risk management Cape Wind plans for this project. All I ever found was one line referring to a bond.
Bonds are different from insurance-so different they are more like loans than insurance.
There may be insurance companies willing to write the Bond(s) but they may not be around when needed like AIG with the credit default swap meltdown and subsequent Great Recession.
In addition to the possibility the bond company could go bankrupt, Cape Wind could set up it's own "Captive" insurance company offshore (not on a windmill - more likely in Burmuda).
This project has many risk management and insurance issues for the project itself and the public that just aren't being discussed.
Bonds are different from insurance-so different they are more like loans than insurance.
There may be insurance companies willing to write the Bond(s) but they may not be around when needed like AIG with the credit default swap meltdown and subsequent Great Recession.
In addition to the possibility the bond company could go bankrupt, Cape Wind could set up it's own "Captive" insurance company offshore (not on a windmill - more likely in Burmuda).
This project has many risk management and insurance issues for the project itself and the public that just aren't being discussed.
bittersweet [Member] writes:
Here's an egoism for huge error:
"bitta...did you vote for the racist Obama?"
What are you saying? He hates his mother??His grandparents who raised him?? what a dolt.
And as I've stated before, my first choice was Kucinich, followed by McKinney. Also liked Graver....I wanted those no-good wack-job righties sent back to the dark ages where they belong...Obama's too nice.
But that being said, Obama or McCain? No question I voted for Obama. And in fact, we probably wouldn't be having this argument for wind power had McCain been elected. It would have been no. no. no. As With Everything Else and the Republican
Party.
Salazar is an excellent man for this job. He cares about the environment...watch and listen to him sometime and see for yourself.
Renewable energy is a no-brainer.
And the environmental impact of this project has been studied, hasn't it? It passed the test, didn't it?
Sorry...our esthetics are no more important than anyone else on the planet. Especially when you could argue that we contribute more than our fair share of the need for energy in the first place.
"bitta...did you vote for the racist Obama?"
What are you saying? He hates his mother??His grandparents who raised him?? what a dolt.
And as I've stated before, my first choice was Kucinich, followed by McKinney. Also liked Graver....I wanted those no-good wack-job righties sent back to the dark ages where they belong...Obama's too nice.
But that being said, Obama or McCain? No question I voted for Obama. And in fact, we probably wouldn't be having this argument for wind power had McCain been elected. It would have been no. no. no. As With Everything Else and the Republican
Party.
Salazar is an excellent man for this job. He cares about the environment...watch and listen to him sometime and see for yourself.
Renewable energy is a no-brainer.
And the environmental impact of this project has been studied, hasn't it? It passed the test, didn't it?
Sorry...our esthetics are no more important than anyone else on the planet. Especially when you could argue that we contribute more than our fair share of the need for energy in the first place.
margebunny21 [Member] writes:
maverick [Member] writes:
"Maverick:
You claim Cape Wind is a "radar hazard".
If Cape Wind were a "radar hazard" it would'nt be allowed to operate near an Air Force
installation like PAVE PAWS."
Correct...that is why it hasn't been approved.
Curious...your statement "You're a motivated liar supporting a dishonest
cause funded by liars."
What misinformation?
Please tell me when I have lied?
Please list my lies and exaggerations.
WIND TURBINE ONLINE FOR BASE CLEANUP:
http://www.capecodonline.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20091103/NEWS/911030317
The Guard has filed plans to add as many as 17 wind turbines on the 22,000-acre base and is working with the Federal Aviation Administration to make sure they won't interfere with the base airfield.
"We will not only have the greenest cleanup," Delahunt said, "but we are setting this base up to be the first energy-independent military installation in the United States."
You bury yourself deeper with
each post Capt. Morgan...
"Maverick:
You claim Cape Wind is a "radar hazard".
If Cape Wind were a "radar hazard" it would'nt be allowed to operate near an Air Force
installation like PAVE PAWS."
Correct...that is why it hasn't been approved.
Curious...your statement "You're a motivated liar supporting a dishonest
cause funded by liars."
What misinformation?
Please tell me when I have lied?
Please list my lies and exaggerations.
WIND TURBINE ONLINE FOR BASE CLEANUP:
http://www.capecodonline.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20091103/NEWS/911030317
The Guard has filed plans to add as many as 17 wind turbines on the 22,000-acre base and is working with the Federal Aviation Administration to make sure they won't interfere with the base airfield.
"We will not only have the greenest cleanup," Delahunt said, "but we are setting this base up to be the first energy-independent military installation in the United States."
You bury yourself deeper with
each post Capt. Morgan...
margebunny21 [Member] writes:
The turbines ARE NOT a "radar hazard"
and you dam well know it!
You've known it all along!
and you dam well know it!
You've known it all along!
Peter Walker [Member] writes:
Could one of the learned post the “dust to dust carbon footprint” of a wind farm?
Those who are as knowledgeable as they claim to be and able to speak with such authority certainly must have included this in their research and should be willing and able to share.
I thank you in advance.
Those who are as knowledgeable as they claim to be and able to speak with such authority certainly must have included this in their research and should be willing and able to share.
I thank you in advance.
jane.logan [Member] writes:
I haven't read all these posts but Cape Wind will make their money selling carbon credits, not electricity.
http://www.carbontrading.com
http://www.carbontrading.com
margebunny21 [Member] writes:
Peter Walker [Member] writes:
So marge, you are qualified to make this statement because.....?
I was in the service and have lots o' experience with radar, hell I even own a couple but I wasn't a scope dope so I am obviously not as well versed as you in the technicalities.
Perhaps you could first qualify your statement about mav and then educate those of us who aren't quite as knowledgeable in this field as you.
Dear Mr. Puller:
Read the post and link several posts
above this one and you will figure it
all out.
And I would hardly call a stint in
the USCG as "service" though I notice
you (figuratively speaking) flash your
imaginary medals and trophies around to
everybody by referring to yourself
as a "serviceman" when you were
more than likely a latrine technician.
I also have a strong hunch that you're
actually Reilly (mav) using a
duplicate account.
"Mav" has a track record for doing things like this (bobcat87).
Thank You, Mr. Puller.
So marge, you are qualified to make this statement because.....?
I was in the service and have lots o' experience with radar, hell I even own a couple but I wasn't a scope dope so I am obviously not as well versed as you in the technicalities.
Perhaps you could first qualify your statement about mav and then educate those of us who aren't quite as knowledgeable in this field as you.
Dear Mr. Puller:
Read the post and link several posts
above this one and you will figure it
all out.
And I would hardly call a stint in
the USCG as "service" though I notice
you (figuratively speaking) flash your
imaginary medals and trophies around to
everybody by referring to yourself
as a "serviceman" when you were
more than likely a latrine technician.
I also have a strong hunch that you're
actually Reilly (mav) using a
duplicate account.
"Mav" has a track record for doing things like this (bobcat87).
Thank You, Mr. Puller.
margebunny21 [Member] writes:
Mavrick is telling people that Cape Wind
presents a "radar hazard" but if you go here:
http://www.capecodonline.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20091103/NEWS/911030317
you will notice that they are installing
turbines in the MIDDLE OF OTIS!!!
Here's my qualification: I read english.
He KNEW the turbines were safe.....he knew it all along.
presents a "radar hazard" but if you go here:
http://www.capecodonline.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20091103/NEWS/911030317
you will notice that they are installing
turbines in the MIDDLE OF OTIS!!!
Here's my qualification: I read english.
He KNEW the turbines were safe.....he knew it all along.
jane.logan [Member] writes:
I always thought someone should throw Jim Gordon of Cape Wind off the side of a boat in a January Nor'easter without a survival suit and see how he likes the prospect of a search and rescue effort limited to boats...
bittersweet [Member] writes:
I heard a program last night that said one of the most damaging activities to the ocean environment is trawling for fish, where whole ocean floors are scooped up in a net as wide in length as three jumbo jets.
He compared it as going from a lush rain forest to de-forestation.
Jane---Who goes out to the shoals? You are not allowed, are you? It's on the edge of no-where, isn't it? That's why they chose it!
He compared it as going from a lush rain forest to de-forestation.
Jane---Who goes out to the shoals? You are not allowed, are you? It's on the edge of no-where, isn't it? That's why they chose it!
Peter Walker [Member] writes:
jane,
by “dust to dust carbon footprint” I was not referring just to operational but to include manufacture, installation, maintenance and end of life removal.
Shouldn't we be looking at the whole picture?
by “dust to dust carbon footprint” I was not referring just to operational but to include manufacture, installation, maintenance and end of life removal.
Shouldn't we be looking at the whole picture?
Peter Walker [Member] writes:
Marge,
“...latrine technician..."?
You have just qualified yourself as ignorant on all things military.
If you think Jack and I are the same person, look around and compare our pictures. Mine’s @ Bismore Park and his is on his charter web page, we look nothing alike.
bobcat87, well you go back. Who were you in your previous flaming troll life here?
One more question, after seeing your posts, do you read on a fourth grade level also?
p.s. “Mr. Puller” is really clever, hope you didn’t hurt yourself coming up with that one.
“...latrine technician..."?
You have just qualified yourself as ignorant on all things military.
If you think Jack and I are the same person, look around and compare our pictures. Mine’s @ Bismore Park and his is on his charter web page, we look nothing alike.
bobcat87, well you go back. Who were you in your previous flaming troll life here?
One more question, after seeing your posts, do you read on a fourth grade level also?
p.s. “Mr. Puller” is really clever, hope you didn’t hurt yourself coming up with that one.
jane.logan [Member] writes:
Peter - Yes we should be looking at the whole picture. I believe Cape Wind, if approved, will operate only as long as they can sell carbon credits and depreciation credits. Once Jim Gordon has squeazed all the "credits trading" money out of the project he'll abandon it and the taxpayer will pick up the decommisioning tab.
CC Today needs spellcheck...!
CC Today needs spellcheck...!
possee [Member] writes:
Al Gore really has put the fix on everyone..we now actually are discussing carbon credits as part of the equation with Cape Wind..?
A total fabrication of a traded equity(carbon footprint) actually has validity and now has become part of the vernacular..
Absolutely unbelievable..
possee
A total fabrication of a traded equity(carbon footprint) actually has validity and now has become part of the vernacular..
Absolutely unbelievable..
possee
jane.logan [Member] writes:
possee - I've spent a lot of time reading about carbon credits they are an invisble, unregulated scam.
possee [Member] writes:
Since GE is supplying the wind turbines.
GE also perpetuated the "carbon credit" scam.
GE is a win/win here..
Follow the money.
Remember folks, Cape Compact sold us the same bill of goods..lower rates..right?
I thought fanatical religious fervor was in the Bible belt, but it is more relevant here with the new eco babble wind church...
and Al Gore is the high priest..
The only one benefitting is GE, and investors.
fools...
possee
GE also perpetuated the "carbon credit" scam.
GE is a win/win here..
Follow the money.
Remember folks, Cape Compact sold us the same bill of goods..lower rates..right?
I thought fanatical religious fervor was in the Bible belt, but it is more relevant here with the new eco babble wind church...
and Al Gore is the high priest..
The only one benefitting is GE, and investors.
fools...
possee
possee [Member] writes:
jane
Glad to see someone has common sense here.
This warming/green energy/cap&trade/carbon footprint is the biggest hoax perpetrated on the planet.. ever.
Like we're going to breathe fresher air, pay lower rates, reduce global warming, and stop the erosion of Cape Cod only if we erect the Don Quixote windmills.
How's hope and change doing for you?
That's the second biggest hoax..
GE has produced more toxic sites, and fined for, and now is on the green energy, carbon footprint, windmill, bible tour..say amen..big brother!
possee
Glad to see someone has common sense here.
This warming/green energy/cap&trade/carbon footprint is the biggest hoax perpetrated on the planet.. ever.
Like we're going to breathe fresher air, pay lower rates, reduce global warming, and stop the erosion of Cape Cod only if we erect the Don Quixote windmills.
How's hope and change doing for you?
That's the second biggest hoax..
GE has produced more toxic sites, and fined for, and now is on the green energy, carbon footprint, windmill, bible tour..say amen..big brother!
possee
bittersweet [Member] writes:
If GE has no integrity, then find a company that does.
If they don't exist in the United States, go elsewhere...the military does on a regular basis, with plenty of tax-payer support.
Wind, solar, geothermal has GOT to be better than oil and coal.
What do you suggest--leaving everything as is?
Here's the hoax; we have no reason to change.
"-mining: the ugly truth about Mount Isa
In the boom town next to Australia's biggest lead mine, mothers fear their children are being poisoned"
And it's nothing new.In fact, it's an everyday thing for many mothers on this planet. Just not ours, that's Ok huh?
A Civil Action...right here in Mass.
Is there some proof that you have that Jim Gordon is not a man of his word?
He says he's doing it because he believes in it....are you so jaded to think that this cannot be true?
If they don't exist in the United States, go elsewhere...the military does on a regular basis, with plenty of tax-payer support.
Wind, solar, geothermal has GOT to be better than oil and coal.
What do you suggest--leaving everything as is?
Here's the hoax; we have no reason to change.
"-mining: the ugly truth about Mount Isa
In the boom town next to Australia's biggest lead mine, mothers fear their children are being poisoned"
And it's nothing new.In fact, it's an everyday thing for many mothers on this planet. Just not ours, that's Ok huh?
A Civil Action...right here in Mass.
Is there some proof that you have that Jim Gordon is not a man of his word?
He says he's doing it because he believes in it....are you so jaded to think that this cannot be true?
Buzz [Member] writes:
Mav,
Did you see this: "A new study by fisheries scientists in Woods Hole shows that about half of the 36 fish stocks they surveyed had shifted north or east toward cooler waters over the past 40 years"?
You may have to change your mantra..... "Hey I love Nova Scotia.... hey it's the people I hate"
Did you see this: "A new study by fisheries scientists in Woods Hole shows that about half of the 36 fish stocks they surveyed had shifted north or east toward cooler waters over the past 40 years"?
You may have to change your mantra..... "Hey I love Nova Scotia.... hey it's the people I hate"
Ana Paulina [Member] writes:
I see a future of solar, biomass, hydro and geothermal power all in my back yard.
Buzz [Member] writes:
I see a very expensive back yard:)
Ana Paulina [Member] writes:
Laughing.... Thank you... I needed that!
Yes, there are the added dis/advantages.
Yes, there are the added dis/advantages.
Buzz [Member] writes:
Honestly, that's one of the biggest issues facing those that would like to be green.... cost.
You'd have to live to 128yrs to recoup your investment.
You'd have to live to 128yrs to recoup your investment.
Ana Paulina [Member] writes:
Keyword: Investment.
Buzz [Member] writes:
possee... et al;
Global warming is good for Al Gore:
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/11/03/business/energy-environment/03gore.html
Global warming is good for Al Gore:
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/11/03/business/energy-environment/03gore.html
bittersweet [Member] writes:
Who is Big Oil good for?
"You'd have to live to 128yrs to recoup your investment."
So maybe they're not doing it for the money.
"You'd have to live to 128yrs to recoup your investment."
So maybe they're not doing it for the money.
dkfalmouth [Member] writes:
Jane,
Carbon Credits will come from the Cape and Trade bill if it passes, right?
What do you know about how much Cape Wind can earn from that?
Don't forget one thing: Jim Gordon started this Cape Wind crusade LONG before Cape and Trade was even a glimmer in Barack Obama's eye. Heck, the Cape Wind saga started before Obama was even in the U.S. Senate.
Perhaps Gordon will milk Cap and Trade if it passes (still FAR from a sure thing) but he definitely didn't have that in his plans from the start.
No?
Carbon Credits will come from the Cape and Trade bill if it passes, right?
What do you know about how much Cape Wind can earn from that?
Don't forget one thing: Jim Gordon started this Cape Wind crusade LONG before Cape and Trade was even a glimmer in Barack Obama's eye. Heck, the Cape Wind saga started before Obama was even in the U.S. Senate.
Perhaps Gordon will milk Cap and Trade if it passes (still FAR from a sure thing) but he definitely didn't have that in his plans from the start.
No?
Carl B. Freeman [Member] writes:
Mavrick, I think I finally figured you out. You are actually for Cape wind and post the most ridiculous claims possible with no research to make the opposition look good, I mean REALLY GOOD.
Opps, sorry to blow your cover, alright back to the uninformed banter.
Maverick, you suck. Also you smell bad. Every thing you say is wrong.
Thanks Maverick, (wink - wink)
Opps, sorry to blow your cover, alright back to the uninformed banter.
Maverick, you suck. Also you smell bad. Every thing you say is wrong.
Thanks Maverick, (wink - wink)
Carl B. Freeman [Member] writes:
I mean how else can someone have clearing house pricing explained to them repeatedly over 8 years and still claim the power will be too expensive. Obtuse doesn't begin to explain it.
Again thanks for being there for clean power.
Again thanks for being there for clean power.
dkfalmouth [Member] writes:
Carl,
There's a very interesting new article under the "Op Ed" blog today. It reviews a local NPR interview (by Mindy Todd) of RFK Jr. The writer says that RFK, who is an environmental lawyer, was very reasonable throughout the interview but that he did a Jekyll/Hyde transformation when Cape Wind came up. If the writer is accurate, I've never seen a larger string of anti-Cape Wind lies and distortions. RFK Jr. even makes Maverick look tame!
Check it out.
There's a very interesting new article under the "Op Ed" blog today. It reviews a local NPR interview (by Mindy Todd) of RFK Jr. The writer says that RFK, who is an environmental lawyer, was very reasonable throughout the interview but that he did a Jekyll/Hyde transformation when Cape Wind came up. If the writer is accurate, I've never seen a larger string of anti-Cape Wind lies and distortions. RFK Jr. even makes Maverick look tame!
Check it out.
neil good [Member] writes:
Dk,
You say above-
“…they've been operating these turbines very successfully offshore for many years now in Europe.”
For a rude awakening, search on google for the following-
“Germany's Renewable Myth - FP Comment”
One interesting quote-
“…even on-shore wind, widely regarded as a mature technology, requires feed-in tariffs that exceed the per-kWh cost of conventional electricity by up to 300% to remain competitive.”
You say above-
“…they've been operating these turbines very successfully offshore for many years now in Europe.”
For a rude awakening, search on google for the following-
“Germany's Renewable Myth - FP Comment”
One interesting quote-
“…even on-shore wind, widely regarded as a mature technology, requires feed-in tariffs that exceed the per-kWh cost of conventional electricity by up to 300% to remain competitive.”
dkfalmouth [Member] writes:
Hi Neil,
It's important to separate two different definitions of "success" when it comes to offshore wind.
The narrower definition might be called "operational success". Do the turbines spin? Do they handle bad weather? are they maintainable? Do they cause navigation problems (air and sea)? etc.
European experience has shown offshore wind to be operationally successful.
Quite separately we could talk about "financial success": Basically, does offshore wind generate power at reasonable cost? And there, the jury is definitely out.
Europe gives offshore wind subsidies that are not considered to be acceptable in the US. The poster child for offshore wind - Denmark - mandates that all of its power must be purchased (talk about government support!).
Closer to home, nobody understands how Cape Wind will make ends meet: The cost of offshore wind that we've seen elsewhere makes it seem that Gordon will take a bath.
So, if we're talking about "financial success" I definitely hear you. Operationally, however, offshore wind farms work.
It's important to separate two different definitions of "success" when it comes to offshore wind.
The narrower definition might be called "operational success". Do the turbines spin? Do they handle bad weather? are they maintainable? Do they cause navigation problems (air and sea)? etc.
European experience has shown offshore wind to be operationally successful.
Quite separately we could talk about "financial success": Basically, does offshore wind generate power at reasonable cost? And there, the jury is definitely out.
Europe gives offshore wind subsidies that are not considered to be acceptable in the US. The poster child for offshore wind - Denmark - mandates that all of its power must be purchased (talk about government support!).
Closer to home, nobody understands how Cape Wind will make ends meet: The cost of offshore wind that we've seen elsewhere makes it seem that Gordon will take a bath.
So, if we're talking about "financial success" I definitely hear you. Operationally, however, offshore wind farms work.
maverick [Member] writes:
Carl B..."I mean how else can someone have clearing house pricing explained to them repeatedly over 8 years and still claim the power will be too expensive. Obtuse doesn't begin to explain it."
Carl have you explained it to RFK Jr?
Have you contacted his office and suggested that he is misguided and smells as well?
Carl have you explained it to RFK Jr?
Have you contacted his office and suggested that he is misguided and smells as well?
dkfalmouth [Member] writes:
Well Maverick let's find out if you do understand how power is priced and sold in New England.
Do you understand that the market is competitive, that is, that a high cost producer cannot demand above-market prices for its power?
So, if it costs Cape Wind an arm and a leg to produce its power that high cost cannot be passed onto consumers via high prices.
Do you agree and thus understand?
Do you understand that the market is competitive, that is, that a high cost producer cannot demand above-market prices for its power?
So, if it costs Cape Wind an arm and a leg to produce its power that high cost cannot be passed onto consumers via high prices.
Do you agree and thus understand?
maverick [Member] writes:
dk...I have understood from the beginning. How long have you been following the debate? In the initial marketing thrust for Cape Wind people suggested that because wind was free their electric bill would be lower. False.
Then it was revealed that there are federal laws prohibiting the siting of a wind factory in the middle of a flyway for endangered species. Ignore them.
Now we are planning an "Ocean Policy" But Cape wind is exempt because of their application date. No way it would pass muster after the ocean policy is in place.
http://commerce.senate.gov/public/index.cfm?FuseAction=Hearings.Hearing&Hearing_ID=a190dda5-770e-46dd-bfba-4ee64342897e
The only thing that smells in all of this is Cape Wind.
Then it was revealed that there are federal laws prohibiting the siting of a wind factory in the middle of a flyway for endangered species. Ignore them.
Now we are planning an "Ocean Policy" But Cape wind is exempt because of their application date. No way it would pass muster after the ocean policy is in place.
http://commerce.senate.gov/public/index.cfm?FuseAction=Hearings.Hearing&Hearing_ID=a190dda5-770e-46dd-bfba-4ee64342897e
The only thing that smells in all of this is Cape Wind.
bittersweet [Member] writes:
Wait a minute! You are using a gvt. agency to stop the free-market??
WELL WELL WELL.....
Looks like the ole gvt. aint so bad when it suits you, huh? ahahahaha
Gee, wonder if Cape Wind proponent should show up at the hearing with shot-guns to stop you and the gvt. from trying to take away their rights to a free-market business?
WELL WELL WELL.....
Looks like the ole gvt. aint so bad when it suits you, huh? ahahahaha
Gee, wonder if Cape Wind proponent should show up at the hearing with shot-guns to stop you and the gvt. from trying to take away their rights to a free-market business?
maverick [Member] writes:
marge...your comment "I also have a strong hunch that you're
actually Reilly (mav) using a
duplicate account.
"Mav" has a track record for doing things like this (bobcat87)."
marge...if you check with CCToday they will verify that I have never been registered other than Maverick.
PS...Peter Walker suggested your 4th grade writing. I would like to suggest never spelling someone's name unless you know it is correct. It is Riley. And for the record Peter is much better looking than I. And he smells better.
actually Reilly (mav) using a
duplicate account.
"Mav" has a track record for doing things like this (bobcat87)."
marge...if you check with CCToday they will verify that I have never been registered other than Maverick.
PS...Peter Walker suggested your 4th grade writing. I would like to suggest never spelling someone's name unless you know it is correct. It is Riley. And for the record Peter is much better looking than I. And he smells better.
dkfalmouth [Member] writes:
Maverick,
I’ve been involved in the Cape Wind/Wind Power debate for a couple of years. The “wind energy is free” opinion must have been debunked before I joined in. I never heard it. Obviously, that position was a joke.
Re: the avian flyby: The MMS looked carefully at this. I can’t quote their logic chapter and verse but they concluded that there was no significant threat to migrating birds. Of course, part of the problem is the lack of data. But Cape Wind had to pay for a bunch of expensive studies. Still: No data to support significant bird kills.
That Ocean Policy is a state thing, right? I believe so. If that’s right, it wouldn’t apply to the federal waters where Cape Wind is planned. .
I’ve been involved in the Cape Wind/Wind Power debate for a couple of years. The “wind energy is free” opinion must have been debunked before I joined in. I never heard it. Obviously, that position was a joke.
Re: the avian flyby: The MMS looked carefully at this. I can’t quote their logic chapter and verse but they concluded that there was no significant threat to migrating birds. Of course, part of the problem is the lack of data. But Cape Wind had to pay for a bunch of expensive studies. Still: No data to support significant bird kills.
That Ocean Policy is a state thing, right? I believe so. If that’s right, it wouldn’t apply to the federal waters where Cape Wind is planned. .
jane.logan [Member] writes:
It would be nice to have access to the CC Times archives of comments on this subject... dkfalmouth I spent an incredible amount of time researching all of this a few years ago, not sure how much I can dig up again but I'll do some looking.
The bottom line after all my research is, in my opinion, Cape Wind is a huge carbon credit trading scam.
Long before all the invisible financial commodities utility is sqeezed out of Cape Wind, Jim Gordon will have made his money by selling the project. Jim Gordon will probably sell Cape Wind to the Chinese - makers of tainted baby formula and toxic drywall.
China puts no value on human life and takes no responsibility for their actions or defective products.
Cape Wind is about a lot of things, clean energy is not one of them...
The bottom line after all my research is, in my opinion, Cape Wind is a huge carbon credit trading scam.
Long before all the invisible financial commodities utility is sqeezed out of Cape Wind, Jim Gordon will have made his money by selling the project. Jim Gordon will probably sell Cape Wind to the Chinese - makers of tainted baby formula and toxic drywall.
China puts no value on human life and takes no responsibility for their actions or defective products.
Cape Wind is about a lot of things, clean energy is not one of them...
maverick [Member] writes:
"Representatives from NOAA, the Interior Department and Defense Department have said the new ocean policy would not change their ongoing work to review permits for projects such as the Cape Wind proposal in Massachusetts.
But the changes could come later, according to Lubchenco. The process of siting and permitting similar projects in the future could take a very different approach after the task force creates recommendations for a "marine spatial planning" system that could essentially set up a system for zoning ocean resources."
As in Cape Wind snuck in under the wire and would never be permitted in a comprehensive review that spoke to all environmental, economic and safety reviews.
It is a sham supported by CCToday for advertising reasons. Has nothing to do with green energy.
But the changes could come later, according to Lubchenco. The process of siting and permitting similar projects in the future could take a very different approach after the task force creates recommendations for a "marine spatial planning" system that could essentially set up a system for zoning ocean resources."
As in Cape Wind snuck in under the wire and would never be permitted in a comprehensive review that spoke to all environmental, economic and safety reviews.
It is a sham supported by CCToday for advertising reasons. Has nothing to do with green energy.
bittersweet [Member] writes:
"a comprehensive review that spoke to all environmental, economic and safety reviews."
So, as dk said earlier, subject to a much higher standard than coal and oil!
And why? Special Interests, that's why.
We are a beautiful people...enjoying our Sound while people die of black lung disease to fuel our numerous "toys", mcmansions and hummers.
It has everything to do with green energy.
And a shared responsibility for 25% of the world's energy that we use.
So, as dk said earlier, subject to a much higher standard than coal and oil!
And why? Special Interests, that's why.
We are a beautiful people...enjoying our Sound while people die of black lung disease to fuel our numerous "toys", mcmansions and hummers.
It has everything to do with green energy.
And a shared responsibility for 25% of the world's energy that we use.
maverick [Member] writes:
bitter...do you believe the Native Americans have a right to their own religious beliefs in today's society?
j. madden [Member] writes:
Where is GE? A big wind farm in Texas will be built by China. See this article from the October 30 WSJ which outlines the project. http://tinyurl.com/ygrp7au
This link takes you to the Chinese power company that moved GE to the sidelines in this Texas deal: http://www.apowerenergy.com/
The U.S. company, based in Austin, in partnership with the Chinese power company, A-power, will use 240 wind turbines and is at this link: http://www.cielowind.com/
And where is GE? Here are the scraps: In March 2009, A-Power entered into an agreement to establish a Joint Venture partnership with GE Drivetrain Technologies to
produce wind turbine gearboxes in Shenyang.
This is about wind turbines GE is not supplying. Sigh.
This link takes you to the Chinese power company that moved GE to the sidelines in this Texas deal: http://www.apowerenergy.com/
The U.S. company, based in Austin, in partnership with the Chinese power company, A-power, will use 240 wind turbines and is at this link: http://www.cielowind.com/
And where is GE? Here are the scraps: In March 2009, A-Power entered into an agreement to establish a Joint Venture partnership with GE Drivetrain Technologies to
produce wind turbine gearboxes in Shenyang.
This is about wind turbines GE is not supplying. Sigh.
j. madden [Member] writes:
Ah, the Wind Farm. Remember T. Boone Pickens' media blitz for a big Texas wind farm? I believe he spent over $60 million just to promote the darn thing. It was an idea who's time had come or so it seemed. Something happened to the U.S. economy and T. Boone couldn't get a loan. Hmm, I think Forbes or someone in the know had him valued at $3 billion in 2007. Anyway, with a pile of U.S. stimulus bucks and cheaper turbines from China, (is that how it all worked out?) Texas will get it's Big Wind Farm after all. GE gets to wonder how good things might have been. China laughs their way to the bank. See my other post for links.
bittersweet [Member] writes:
Funny, I thought someone had gotten to T. Boone, because one day--out of the blue-- it was no longer Wind Power, but Natural Gas. That's what he's promoting now.
Very odd.
And good thing GE didn't get it! According to some, they are not a good company.
Very odd.
And good thing GE didn't get it! According to some, they are not a good company.
bittersweet [Member] writes:
We all have the right to our own religious beliefs maverick. But those beliefs don't override the rest of the people in this country. If so, the neo-cons would never have seen the light of day. They offended every religious bone in my body.
dkfalmouth [Member] writes:
Well Jane, I've been wondering for awhile how the heck Gordon is going to make money on Cape Wind. The cost of offshore wind, the market price of power, and the subsidies that he'll receive haven't seemed to add up.
So, perhaps the answer is in the "invisible" credits you describe.
The only credits that I know much about are RECS (Renewable Energy Credits). CW will generate 1 of these for each MW of power that it produces and it can sell them to dirty energy producers. The current price of an REC is about $60 but it'll drop once CW floods the market with them.
Even if you can't find your research on Carbon Credits and Depreciation Credits perhaps you can describe them in general at least.
If you researched them years ago, it sounds like Carbon Credits are not the allowances created by Cap and Trade.
Anyway, please tell me what you can without killing yourself. EMail me if you like.
So, perhaps the answer is in the "invisible" credits you describe.
The only credits that I know much about are RECS (Renewable Energy Credits). CW will generate 1 of these for each MW of power that it produces and it can sell them to dirty energy producers. The current price of an REC is about $60 but it'll drop once CW floods the market with them.
Even if you can't find your research on Carbon Credits and Depreciation Credits perhaps you can describe them in general at least.
If you researched them years ago, it sounds like Carbon Credits are not the allowances created by Cap and Trade.
Anyway, please tell me what you can without killing yourself. EMail me if you like.
Carl B. Freeman [Member] writes:
If the Native Americans have an issue with an obstructed view with clean, energy producing turbines, than they must have a much bigger issue with all the particulates that obscure their view now. It also obstructs people from breathing properly, increases the occurrence of asthma & asthma attacks. It also kills 11 - 14 people every year. It also worsens upper respiratory infections and makes a more fertile ground for flu and N1H1. Now if ever there was an 'evil' plague, this is it.
A windfarm would lessen those obstructions to the skyline, that seems like a sacred practice I can be on board with.
Yes, I must admit I have a religious belief, I believe we can have our power without toxic emissions. What makes their belief more important than mine, and every other breather on the East coast?
Any Native Americans who wish to discuss the spiritual merits of stopping a wind farm can come talk to me about it, lets see who just being paid to have a take on a religious belief.
A windfarm would lessen those obstructions to the skyline, that seems like a sacred practice I can be on board with.
Yes, I must admit I have a religious belief, I believe we can have our power without toxic emissions. What makes their belief more important than mine, and every other breather on the East coast?
Any Native Americans who wish to discuss the spiritual merits of stopping a wind farm can come talk to me about it, lets see who just being paid to have a take on a religious belief.
possee [Member] writes:
jane
Please expound further regarding the carbon trading scam, and cap&trade hoax.
Global warming ..you will never convince most..as it is now an official worldwide belief system more powerful than Islam and Christianity combined.
And all the believers have succumbed totally to its bible of junk science.
possee
Please expound further regarding the carbon trading scam, and cap&trade hoax.
Global warming ..you will never convince most..as it is now an official worldwide belief system more powerful than Islam and Christianity combined.
And all the believers have succumbed totally to its bible of junk science.
possee
jane.logan [Member] writes:
possee and dkfalmouth - Today's session of ORD (obsessive research disorder) has been interrupted by dogs digging under the fence...
I need some chicken wire, metal stakes, cement paving stone and for good measure boxing gloves for the dogs front feet and I'll be free to roam about the internet for information to post...
Have a great day!
I need some chicken wire, metal stakes, cement paving stone and for good measure boxing gloves for the dogs front feet and I'll be free to roam about the internet for information to post...
Have a great day!
maverick [Member] writes:
dk..."That Ocean Policy is a state thing, right? I believe so. If that’s right, it wouldn’t apply to the federal waters where Cape Wind is planned."
dk...it will cover the entire "exclusive economic zone" which is federal waters.
dk...it will cover the entire "exclusive economic zone" which is federal waters.
possee [Member] writes:
maverick
Take all your available funds and invest in Cape Wind carbon offsets.
Also, invest in Al Gore.
A win win.
possee
Take all your available funds and invest in Cape Wind carbon offsets.
Also, invest in Al Gore.
A win win.
possee
bittersweet [Member] writes:
Much better than continuing to invest in Big Oil-- Bush, Cheney and the Bin-Ladens.
At least we get some benefit with Gore. With those 3, we are paying for the deliberate murderers of our own citizens.
IMO
At least we get some benefit with Gore. With those 3, we are paying for the deliberate murderers of our own citizens.
IMO
bittersweet [Member] writes:
To maverick: "Gonna get me some legislation" mmm mmm mmm.
Come on now, say it with me: Government is really not so bad. It actually does good things now and then.
Come on now, say it with me: Government is really not so bad. It actually does good things now and then.
dkfalmouth [Member] writes:
Maverick,
Can you give me the name of the legislation you're talking about so that I can google it? I have a tough time believing that a state Ocean Management bill would cover federal waters.
Can you give me the name of the legislation you're talking about so that I can google it? I have a tough time believing that a state Ocean Management bill would cover federal waters.
maverick [Member] writes:
dk...http://commerce.senate.gov/public/index.cfm?FuseAction=Hearings.Hearing&Hearing_ID=a190dda5-770e-46dd-bfba-4ee64342897e
If it helps great. If not post and I will send you others.
If it helps great. If not post and I will send you others.
dkfalmouth [Member] writes:
Maverick,
I read the introductory comments by Jay Rockefeller, committee chairman, from the web page you sent and from them it's pretty obvious that this is a brand new initiative. The Senate is at the starting line on this federal effort.
I don't know Maverick, I don't think it's reasonable to criticize Cape Wind using this new Senate effort because:
a. Cape Wind proposed its wind farm 8 years before this effort started.
b. Saying that this brand new effort would prevent Cape Wind is pure speculation.
You're bending awfully far over backwards to use this as a criticism of Cape Wind.
I read the introductory comments by Jay Rockefeller, committee chairman, from the web page you sent and from them it's pretty obvious that this is a brand new initiative. The Senate is at the starting line on this federal effort.
I don't know Maverick, I don't think it's reasonable to criticize Cape Wind using this new Senate effort because:
a. Cape Wind proposed its wind farm 8 years before this effort started.
b. Saying that this brand new effort would prevent Cape Wind is pure speculation.
You're bending awfully far over backwards to use this as a criticism of Cape Wind.
maverick [Member] writes:
dk...all I am suggesting is that the wind factory proposal came before what we might call "Ocean Zoning".
The reason that the Cape landscape is a joke relates directly to no planning. And by the time they started to get planning and zoning the Cape was already a blight on the earth.
I have charter customers that live at the Belmont. Invite me for dinner there all the time. The place looks like a mortar prison. No character, no architecture just a blight on the horizon as I steam in from offshore.
The bottom line...the fact that they proposed the siting before guidelines were established does not make it a good or legitimate project. And the few guidelines in existence they have ignored. Would you like me to list them?
The reason that the Cape landscape is a joke relates directly to no planning. And by the time they started to get planning and zoning the Cape was already a blight on the earth.
I have charter customers that live at the Belmont. Invite me for dinner there all the time. The place looks like a mortar prison. No character, no architecture just a blight on the horizon as I steam in from offshore.
The bottom line...the fact that they proposed the siting before guidelines were established does not make it a good or legitimate project. And the few guidelines in existence they have ignored. Would you like me to list them?
dkfalmouth [Member] writes:
Oh yeah Maverick, I definitely need you to list the guidelines that Cape Wind has ignored.
This is probably the most reviewed, most regulated project in American history. It's been under the magnifying glass for 8 years now. It's undergone 2 full multi-year Environmental Impact Studies, and been challenged in court so many times I've lost count. If there are guidelines that Cape Wind has ignored it's because the process established by law does not contain those guidelines.
Now, I hope that you're not going to give me a bunch of things that YOU happen to believe should have been reviewed more stringently but that the law does not require. And I hope that you don't give me guidelines that have been hotly debated and on which the appropriate authorities, including the courts, have decided in favor of Cape Wind but that you wish had come out differently. Unfortunately, your personal desires aren't law.
Anyway, please list the guidelines as established by federal, state and local law that Cape Wind has broken.
This is probably the most reviewed, most regulated project in American history. It's been under the magnifying glass for 8 years now. It's undergone 2 full multi-year Environmental Impact Studies, and been challenged in court so many times I've lost count. If there are guidelines that Cape Wind has ignored it's because the process established by law does not contain those guidelines.
Now, I hope that you're not going to give me a bunch of things that YOU happen to believe should have been reviewed more stringently but that the law does not require. And I hope that you don't give me guidelines that have been hotly debated and on which the appropriate authorities, including the courts, have decided in favor of Cape Wind but that you wish had come out differently. Unfortunately, your personal desires aren't law.
Anyway, please list the guidelines as established by federal, state and local law that Cape Wind has broken.
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Notice the wiggle room. I will take odds this isn't approved by the end of 2010. And if it is they won't be able to sell the juice as it will be too expensive.
Unless of course the green group on Cape Cod agrees to pay exorbitant prices for their electricity. Far above the market rate.
Will the average electric ratepayer go along with that? They have so far. Will their checkbooks still be out when they find it is higher than market? I doubt it.