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Lindsay Graham's Big Problem
Lindsay Graham's Big Problem
"The big problem I have is that you're criminalizing the war...."
-Sen. Lindsay Graham, R-SC
"They committed murder here in the United States and we'll seek justice here in the United States,"
-Sen. Patrick Leahy, D-Vt.
"Military justice is to justice what military music is to music."
-Groucho Marx
"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety."
- Benjamin Franklin
"My country right or wrong; if right to be kept right, and if wrong to be set right."
-Sen. Carl Schurz, R-Wisc.
The GOP's attack du jour on President Barak Obama is focused on Attorney General Eric Holder's decision to try Khalid Sheik Mohammed on criminal charges in the Southern District of New York. We hear the usual right wing bellyaching, with allegations by "Rush" and others that Sen. Lindsay Graham "stumped" Holder because Holder refused to give a simple answer to a complex hypothetical question about where bin Laden would be tried if he were captured.
In fact, Graham revealed the basic phoniness of the GOP in his objection that Holder is "criminalizing the war." Graham and the rest of the GOP desperately seek to have all Guantanamo detainees tried in military tribunals because that's the only way to legitimize the Decider's "war on terror," and they well know that apart from warmongering and carping about "liberals" the Republicans really have nothing to offer the American people.
The Republicans have no policy alternatives other than the failed policies they used to run America into the ground over the last eight years, and they've got no ideas. So they cling to their tried and true agenda based on fear and obstructionism. By insisting on military trials for Guantanamo detainees irrespective of where their alleged terrorist acts occurred, the GOP is in fact legitimizing them in the eyes of the world, and certainly in their own minds, as military combatants as opposed to the thugs and murderers they really are.
We have a criminal justice system that recognizes the rights of the accused, unlike military tribunals, so foreign nationals tried in civilian courts will be accorded basic rights just like any other common criminal, say, Timothy McVeigh. McVeigh, too, you will recall, claimed through his lawyers that he was part of the militia movement, an armed force opposed to the Government of the United States.
So why should Khalid, who is accused of killing civilians in a commercial office building here on American soil be considered an enemy combatant while McVeigh, who killed civilians in a federal government building, was considered a non-combatant? Both of them were driven by extreme ideology to commit mass murder here on American soil, targeting non-military facilities, and therefore both should be tried as common criminals here, in our criminal courts.
To do otherwise sends the wrong message to the rest of the civilized world and undermines our credibility, making us seem no better than how we viewed the Soviet Union under Stalin, or China today. It is to tell the world that we don't trust the criminal justice system that is the hallmark of our basic liberties as a free people, a criminal justice system that is based on principle and not expediency or politics. The GOP today is howling to sacrifice that principle solely in the name of expediency, based primarily on a politics that puts ideology ahead of the national interest.
How does the GOP differentiate between Khalid and McVeigh in principle? Does it turn on the focus of their respective ideologies in the minds of Graham and the other GOP obstructionists, Khalid's Islamic jihad vs. McVeigh's right wing paranoia, ? If so, that violates the essential purpose of the Constitution which is to protect the rights of the "people" and the individual "person," with no reference to citizenship, to ideology or to politics.
The Fifth Amendment, particularly, states that no "person" shall be held to answer for a capital offense unless under presentment and indictment of a grand jury, i.e. a civil proceeding:
except in cases arising in the land or naval forces, or in the Militia, when in actual service in time of War or public danger.
It is quite a stretch to claim, as the GOP would have us believe, that 9/11 was an act of war as opposed to terrorism such as militiaman McVeigh's attack on the Murragh Federal Building.
If we're going to define these issues by hyperbole, then let's try all the Mexican drug and gun smugglers in military courts as well. After all, we're in the middle of a 40-year "war on drugs," and those Mexican thugs should therefore be treated as enemy "combatants" no less than Khalid and his fellow Islamic thugs who violated the law here on American soil.
The braying that we're hearing from Graham and the right-wing media jackasses about trying these murderers in civilian courts claims that holding military trials for all Guantanamo detainees is based on issues of national security. That is to say, unquestionably, it is a matter of expediency for them, and it is an expedient that defies and diminishes the moral authority of our Constitutional rights and our criminal laws which either protect everyone, every "person," or they protect nobody in the final analysis.
This fits exactly within the meaning of Franklin's aphorism, where those like Sen. Graham and the right wing media hacks that parrot him are willing to compromise our essential Constitutional rights in the name of security and expediency. Such people and their supporters deserve neither the liberty our Constitution guarantees nor the false security they seek to achieve by the expedient of trying Khalid in a military tribunal, the judicial equivalent of a military band playing "Onward Christian Soldiers" as Groucho suggested.
The single most ludicrous statement to emerge concerning this affair is Graham's remark that Holder and the President are making "bad history." Huh? Where's he been the past eight years of the Decider and Darth Cheney making history, bringing us two costly unwinnable wars, increasing our national debt and trade imbalance geometrically and nearly bankrupting the country. Are we to believe that was "good history?"
All Obama and Holder are doing is trying to follow Sen. Carl Schurz mandate -our country right or wrong, when right to be kept right and when wrong to be set right. Given the past eight years of flat out wrong policy decisions by the GOP, they've got a lot of setting right to do, and trying mass murderers as such in civilian court, treating them as the common criminals they are instead of according them the dignity of enemy combatants, while upholding our fundamental constitutional principles, is clearly the right thing to do.
Graham's real problem, meanwhile, and that of the GOP in general, is they really have no sound policy initiatives and no ideas other than more of the same small government, jingoist nonsense that created the eight year era of "bad history" from 2001 through 2008, so they keep trying to tear down Obama personally and obstruct his efforts to set things right politically. And that's really a big problem -for the American people and for our constitutional democracy.
245 comments
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let that attorney, in his so called defense of the former accused rights,allow the now free plaintiff, before such person is released to the public,a weeks stay at the attorneys home with his family..
possee
Even my democrat attorney friends, who represent the DNC here in Massachusetts, never
utilize such crap in their arguments, and discussions with me.
No wonder over 50% of voters here in Mass, are independents.
Your blogs makes the neo-cons pale in comparison.
I'm amazed that you've not joined the White House legal staff by now with your blind allegiance to the far left.
Perhaps a call to Eric Holder is in order.
possee
Let me guess....they are traitors.
How many pubs voting yes for healthcare debate???
oh yeah, 0. yeah, that's nothing like blind allegiance.
Your questions are so polite.
No wonder the darlings here love you so much.
And the counsellor at large has your respect.
possee
Someone had to get the ball rolling on this one... as with most of the counselor's blogs.... they take on a life of their own.
Only 15 GOP references.... huh, he must have been pressed for time.
It must be your polite way of addressing the counsellor.
Are you attending the 'summit' if it ever occurs?
If so, will you sit at the GOP/obstructioniist table, or, for intellectual curiousity, sit with the supreme court of CC2 DAY?
Please take notes, and make the supreme court table buy us un-informed a round of rare imported fine liquors.
I know you will have their ear..diplomacy is your virtue.
I will look forward to meeting you, despite being a polite obstructionist.
The mud wrestling event with mav and cru should be quite the entertainment.
possee
Then they will make plans to kill everybody off with healthcare reform.
Khalid will get as fair a trial in NYC as he would anywhere else in America, and a lot fairer than before a military tribunal. It will be a panel of 12 ordinary citizens who hear his case, as opposed to a panel of military officers.
The biggest joke in the OJ trial was not the ineptitude of Assistant D.A.s Clark and Darden, letting Furman tell Flea Bailey that he'd never in his whole life used the word "nigger," but D.A. Garcetti himself who decided to hold the trial in the 'hood instead of in Brentwood where OJ lived, where the murder was committed and where his actual peers resided.
Holder and the U.S. Attorneys in the Southern District of New York are a whole lot more competent.
According to international law that obtained until well after WWII these people would have been considered "hostes humani generis" who were not entitled to either the Rules of War or to Constitutional protections.
That they were not treated as such by the Bush administration is a good illustration of the cowardice of the modern GOP in confronting the islamist threat.
R-5
Now there you go again.
You're confusing the opposition.
Suggesting that the GOP/Bush administration was too liberal?
Absoulutely!
As far as I'm concerned..
the GOP is the former liberal DNC.
the DNC is the new Mao/Lenin/Chavez progressive collective.
Where does that leave us?
........................
The state department has become so entrenched with pc lawyers....
there's a field manual of 2000 pages on how to engage enemy fire..
Interesting how the Constitution is 17 pages complete, and has laid the groundwork of our system for 300 years.
The healthcare bill, alone, is over 2000 pages..and that only addresses healthcare!
possee
Reality Check,(Cue Bill O')
Check 1
militia n. An army composed of ordinary citizens rather than professional soldiers. Not “…an armed force opposed to the Government of the United States…”
Check 2
Timothy McVeigh was a US citizen, Khalid Sheikh Mohammed is not.
Check 3
Khalid Sheikh Mohammed was a member of al-Qaeda, what militia was Timothy Mc Veigh a member of?
Check 4
Holder and the U.S. Attorneys in the Southern District of New York are a whole lot more competent.
Citation please.
Check 5
14 penny nails, BWAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAH
In closing counselor,if it wasn’t so pathetic, it would be amusing how you cherry pick the constitution for your agenda of blaming all that ails the world on the GOP. Yet another weak posting from "THE ONE" who is going to change the world by Blogging on cctoday.
I can agree with Rich wholeheartedly on one thing: There is absolutely no reason to listen to the Republican rhetoric on this or any other issue. Rich is right: The GOP does nothing but oppose Obama and say "No". If Obama said that sky was blue, the Republicans would disagree.
Too bad. There are probably reasonable arguments against trying Mohammed in a US Court. But the GOP is not a dependable source for such arguments. They've lost all credibility.
Nice job pointing out that senior Bush Justice Department officials support Holder's decision, or at least that they debunk that fact that using military tribunals is the obviously correct approach. This was done in the following Washington Post Op Ed authored by 2 senior Bush guys:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/11/19/AR2009111903470.html?hpid=opinionsbox1
Here's one interesting paragraph:
---
By contrast, there is no question about the legitimacy of U.S. federal courts to incapacitate terrorists. Many of Holder's critics appear to have forgotten that the Bush administration used civilian courts to put away dozens of terrorists, including "shoe bomber" Richard Reid; al-Qaeda agent Jose Padilla; "American Taliban" John Walker Lindh; the Lackawanna Six; and Zacarias Moussaoui, who was prosecuted for the same conspiracy for which Mohammed is likely to be charged. Many of these terrorists are locked in a supermax prison in Colorado, never to be seen again.
---
Rich is right: The GOP is up to its simple minded sloganism and fear mongering here.
Are you discriminating against cru?
I think that CC2Day tends to frown on the 8 or 9 in a rows that we get from possee at times. I'm not familiar with Cru's frequency.
I forget to ask you what you think about Bush officials supporting Holder's decision? I know, that's 2 in a row again.
Neither is the author of this blog.
You're an expert? What are your qualifications?
I was merely stating the obvious.
I merely deduced, from the rock solid mastery of this complex issue that you demonstrated when you condemned Mr. Latimore, that you were an expert. If you're not an expert then I'd recommend that you be a bit more circumspect in your judgments.
Here's how the senior Bush Justice officials start their Op Ed on this:
"Reasonable minds can disagree about Attorney General Eric Holder's decision to prosecute Khalid Sheik Mohammed and four other alleged Sept. 11 perpetrators in a Manhattan federal court".
I presume that those guys are quite expert and, as Bush officials, it would seem that they don't have any bias in favor of Obama. Even they admit that this is a tough issue that defies simple conclusions.
If this is such a well thought out plan what do we do with the Cat 5 detainees at Guantanamo, "...who cannot be prosecuted yet who pose a clear danger to the American people."
Face due east @ sunrise and ask your “lawyer friend” about that and the guarantee of universal health care in the Constitution.
Do you think this is idiot child’s first expedition into territory above his pay grade?
He has Beck's Belligerent disease too.
And Hannity Hubris.
Afraid there's no cure, we all just have to suffer through it.
Honest to god....my Bush Derangement Syndrome has almost gone away, what with this new brand of psycho-righties.
Bush is a gentleman compare to them.And it hurts my fingers to type that!!!
Incidentally Zippy, I got to meet Glenn Beck last night, what a great American!
No Way. Benazir Bhutto confirmed he was dead. He's the convenient boogey-man they drag out any-time they need him.
And those video's of him are so fake it's funny.
You better check yourself for hives if you touched him Squawker....he's lethal.
Civilian court is much better venue.
Putting this in Military court is the same thing as the police investigating themselves.
And Lindsey Graham fought to have the torture pictures suppressed from the public, now he wants so keep the trial from the public.....me thinks he has something to hide.
Since we're here:
Why don't the pontificating liberals ever answer questions when asked?
Because they can't.
Game, set, match .
What he's hiding, is these idiots from ever getting free to f...u....up. Torture happened on 9/11. Not since, let's see how Obama handles it.
If they ever capture OBL, maybe he can stay at your house during the trial.... if of course, he likes cats... you can fix him a fancy feast.
Of course, here's what it really comes down to with you guys: If it's from Obama it's bad no matter what (black). If it's from the conservative side, it's good no matter what(White).
So what it boils down to is that you don't have the slightest clue what you're talking about.
Very subtle on the racist remark I might add.
I knew you'd weigh in with some kind of tripe -pickled and fried this time.
1 & 3. You say a "militia" must be a citizen army, based on a dictionary definition. Well, that would exclude al Qaeda too, which in the US acts as a criminal terorist organization, no different from McVeigh and his accomplices. Physical evidence, detonator caps used by McVeigh tied him into the Aryan supremacist group Midwest Bank Robbers, but McVeigh wouldn't name names. Many "militia groups" in America, like the Michigan Militia, are not recognized as an "army" within your definition, and there are no real militias today within the Constitutional meaning, as in the 2nd Amendment. "Militia" today is used generally to describe any group of ideological dissidents who take up arms against the government, like McVeigh and his accomplices.
2. The Mexican gun and drug smugglers are not U.S. citizens either, so why not try them in military tribunals?
4. The US Attys. in SDNY convicted Yousef in the 1993 attempt on the WTC, as funded by Khalid, while OJ walked.
Once again, you got nuthin.
Dave didn't say he couldn't answer the question, he said it's not an answerable question within the simplistic, mindless parameters that you "conservative" reactionaries insist be applied to every situation.
It's especially apt to demur on such an issue when the question posed is purely hypothetical -if bin Laden were captured then what? That's exactly what A.G. Holder said to Graham as well, and even if Holder had a contingency plan for that hypothetical, which he probably does, there's no reason for him to disclose it to ideological opponents like Graham and the rest of the world as well.
Like I said, Holder and the Justice Department are very competent people who know how to deal with complex situations with appropriate subtlety, as opposed to the simple-minded ideological, bumper-sticker absolutes that define todays GOP.
Agreed..."Militia" today is used generally to describe any group supportive of the Constitution that takes up arms in defense of all that is good and right.
Disagree..."Militia" today is used generally to describe any group of ideological dissidents who take up arms against the government"
What is an "ideological dissident"? Someone who doesn't share your lust for socialism? Someone who does not enjoy tripe?
When you first joined this blog I thought you might have something to offer. Now I realize what a joke you are and it was really an infomercial pandering to all the left wing lunatics on the Cape that need legal advice.
Of which there are many.
Cat 5 detainees: Put them in a U.S. prison somewhere and throw away the key. If that's unconstitutional, give them trials and convict them for life. Senior Bush Justice Dept officials have pointed out in their Washington Post Op Ed that this has been done many times.
Your "Where is the Constitutional guarantee of health care" question is ridiculous. The American people enjoy the right to hundreds of things that are not explicitly mentioned in the Constitution. Work place safety is one. Abortion isn't mentioned. And on and on.
Now here's a question for you: What do you think about the senior Bush Justice Department guys who say that trying Mohammed in court is reasonable? Here's the Op Ed:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/11/19/AR2009111903470.html?hpid=opinionsbox1
So what "…armed force opposed to the Government of the United States…” did Timothy McVeigh belong to? McVeigh and Nichols were Trekies for crying out loud. Do you think it takes a rocket scientist to make a bomb out of diesel fuel and Prairie Ridge Frisbees?
"The Mexican gun and drug smugglers are not U.S. citizens either..."
As an attorney you should know that severity of a crime is always considered, except you're not a criminal attorney are you? You're an ambulance chaser that rarely sees the inside of a courtroom.
And is one case in NY and one in California enough to make up your opinion? May God have mercy on your clients!
And Dave tried but couldn't answer the question.
"Put them in a U.S. prison somewhere and throw away the key. If that's unconstitutional, give them trials and convict them for life.
14p. nails?
So there you are in your profile picture grinning like a moron after someone told you that you was smarter than an idiot, pretending to actually know what you are writing about.
Eric Holder also said that a military triall would have been a legitimate choice. Funny since Mohammed already has admitted the crime and was willing to plead guilty.
Doesn't it make you stop and think what kind of political maneuvering is going on here by the Obama administration to really put Bush on trial?
If you're so hot on liberals not avoiding questions, why don't you try answering mine?
What do you think about the senior Bush Justice Department guys who say that trying Mohammed in court is reasonable? Here's the Op Ed:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/11/19/AR2009111903470.html?hpid=opinionsbox1
Come one now... practice what you preach!
This is like a ping pong match. I'm game, you give me the quotes from those you like and I'll give you quotes from those I like.... my serve.
"Other things being equal, you would think that targeting civilians makes the crime more grave," said Gregory G. Katsas, a Bush Justice Department official. "If you don't try Khalid Sheikh Mohammed by military commission, I don't know who you try."
A host of leading Republicans, including Bush's last attorney general, Michael Mukasey, and former New York Mayor Rudy Giuliani, have said the 9/11 defendants should be tried by military tribunal.
The administration appears to have made pragmatic and political choices after determining that it is likely to win convictions in a civilian trial of the alleged Sept. 11 plotters, but seems less sure of its prospects if suspects from other attacks were tried in federal court.
The whole thrust of that Op Ed by Bush's own people is that this is not a slam dunk for Military Tribunals. The Op Ed states points in both directions and that, my friend, is the whole point. Sure, you can excerpt quotes that favor your position and I can do the same in mine. You call that ping pong. Typical. I call that a complex issue that defies simplistic black and white thinking. The world if full of them Peter. Are they beyond you?
In the end, this complex issue calls for something that ideologues have trouble with: Thinking.
We still have a few cowardly snipers that keep taking cheap shots from the balcony. Might dk be one of the famous Falmouth pics that grace this blog on a weekly basis? If not why has he not commented on his illustrious neighbors?
dk...your comment..."If you're so hot on liberals not avoiding questions, why don't you try answering mine?"
Why don't you grow up little boy? After reading your comments in detail it is obvious you are a child attempting to reach manhood.
Suggestion...start your own blog and leave kindergarten behind you.
AHHHH, now we come to the real reason you all are against this!!
I hope to hell they do put them on trial and they are finally held to account.
And you think any American would.
Because, if they've got nothing to hide, what's the problem?
I for one, want those murders avenged and the perpetraitors exposed!
I can only hope that is what they are doing....please please please.
It's too much to hope that we will regain some dignity and justice....but well, there's a chance of a chance to have a chance.
It's all we get after the ruination of America.
You know, they better keep an eye on flights leaving for Dubai and Paraguay....courage under fire was never a strong suit of any of that gang.
If you don't like reading comments that you disagree with on PUBLIC forums, then don't read them. Talk about being childish! If you want to be an adult, try taking something that I say and explaining why you disagree. Yeah, I know: Discussing substance is just too tough isn't it?
I guess sticks and stones break you bones, huh Mav? You've gotta toughen up just a bit cup cake.
Dave, 5:10 pm to @ 5:38 pm is a WHOPPING 28 minutes!
I've been waiting weeks, perhaps month for you and your imaginary lawyer friend and the constitutional health care guarantee. You got a big mouth boy, can you back it up or are you just idiot child's new tag-team partner standing in for Ned.
What do I think? I think they are wrong. I don't give a frogs flat ass what the former Deputy Attorney General thinks and I don't think terrorists deserve the time of day. What have they or their ancestors ever done to warrant the same consideration earned by the citizens of this great nation?
They came over, they killed people and they deserve to rot in hell!
Does that answer your question?
If not, I can type it again r-e-a-l s-l-o-w.
And I'm Peter, and Buzz is Buzz and you're a lost little child.
You really should calm down. Getting that mad shows that I'm getting to you.
My lawyer friend has answered your constitutional questions many times on this very blog.
"Buzz, Peter Walker, Jack(Maverick) and possee have all let everyone know who they are, where they live.
We still have a few cowardly snipers that keep taking cheap shots from the balcony. Might dk be one of the famous Falmouth pics that grace this blog on a weekly basis? If not why has he not commented on his illustrious neighbors?"
With this statement the Capt, affects + imposes
his strategy like no other primate could.
It accomplishes 3 tasks in one as it:
a) Pins a medal on himself + buddies for
revealing their identities as though all
of America & the world were reading this.
b)Identifies the TRUE COMMUNISTS because they're
the ones who won't confess who they are.
c)Puts him in a position to brand +
condemn all those who
don't see things "his way".
Now the Capt. will accused dk + me of being the same person posting w/false IP's.
He usually pulls that
one out when he runs out of cards...
So dk, is dick-e-do your lawyer friend? And would that be another non-answer from you on the health care thing? And why are you discussing ping-pong with me? Is the kitchen getting too hot, not up for multi-tasking?
You ask if you're getting to me, like a screaming baby in a restaurant.
"Now be off before I taunt you a second time."
Keep an eye on that anger Peter.
Now a rat's ass on the other hand is mammalian whereas a frog's is amphibian, so the former would be warm-blooded and furry as opposed to the latter being cold blooded, wet and kinda slimy.
As far as the adverb/adjective I dunno?
Next question.
This makes politics look GOOD!
Very Latimeresque, what's next, snatching the pebble grasshopper?
Stupid is as stupid does.
I sense we are in a Grimm Fairy tale.
Frogs..asses
Rats..asses
But then.."it has been fun watching the tops of your and Mav's heads come screwing off."
On second thought.. a Grimm Pornographic fairy tale..or tail?
Or a new 'Exorcist" sequel..
possee
Lindsey Graham is as pathetic as the batman and robin duo here..
Richard(Batman) Lattimer
and his sidekick..
dk(aka Robin)
At least they liven up the blogosphere.
possee
And Peter...next question?
Well, now that we are talking about asses....are rat's asses ever flat?
Have you been feeling the rat's ass to know it is warm, or are you just imagining it is due to the fur?
Slimy asses? Hmmm, known a few of those in my life time, mostly in reference to my snake assed ex--hey I just coined a new phrase for you Peter---Snake Assed? Let's do a definition shall we? Awaiting your 2 cents.....
And does anyone know where Cru is tonight....she's always around and one of my favorite's on this blog, even though I think the Cape is a great place to visit and I know she is branded the 'cape hater' and all, I like her point of view for the most part.
crusader is on a "crusade".
bitter is enjoying her "sweet"s.
bunny is "dropping" on students.
peter has "walked".
dk has returned to the batcave with the counselor.
pornographic tales are left to be 'handled' by any matter that suits you.
possee has turned in from the veranda.
possee
"Marge, gee you and I think alike, you asked the same question as me just moments later....great brains think alike it seems....."
If you're reffering to my post at 8:55
I was'nt asking a question.
I quoted you and made a comment
I doubt many will contest.
bunny is "dropping" on students.
There's no dual-meaning here, just excrementality.
If you can't come up
with a better one than that,
you'll be on Bunny-Detention.
"ahhh yes Marge it seems you have a droll sense of humour,"
I'll use "humour" when and where applicable.
I am also naturally cautious of strangers
who bear many compliments.
You've done this 3 times now.
I also noticed how you attacked
Monpo with little/no provocation.
Eventually, you might do it to me...
"no fun in you this Saturday night"
How's that for entertainment?
Indeed she has possee but I'm sure their self-declared victory was short lived when returning to the real world and realizing they have rather large L's tattooed on their foreheads.
baby cakes you bring up an interesting point, why would someone who hates the Cape call herself Cape Cod Crusader?
Now if you're looking for "pornographic fairy tales" on a Saturday night:
http://www.capecodtoday.com/blogs/index.php/Sonntag
"pornographic Fairy Tales"???AAAIIIIEEEE!!
Holy Excrementality, Batman!
This IS NOT Bunny-territory!
I'm gettin outta here!
who bear many compliments.
You've done this 3 times now.
I didn't insult Monpo, what kinda drugs are you on tonight? I think you should save your energy for battling "The CRU" or she'll be all over ya Margey...
And I only complimented Cru...
and of course was looking for a little entertainment this lonely Saturday night and hey....I like fairy tales, pornographic ones or not that end well....
"Don't these people ever learn?"
Babycakes wrote:
"Peter, do tell, is a frog's flat ass the same as a rat's f*****g ass? Perhaps if you are tongue tied Monpo can add her 2 cents worth to this illustrious question?"
Involving ANYONE with such a stupid-arse
question like that is an attack,considering
the sarcasm involved with it.
Also:
I don't need drugs.
And if you dig "porno fairy tales"
You must be pretty F- weird!
I originally thought you might have been legit, but not after THAT one.
And I don't give two damns
about Cru and her multiple-PMS agenda.
I happen to love Monpo---she adds great commentary here on this blog that is usually sidesplitting, one of the reasons I return regularly to have a good laugh.....
And about Cru....she is a smart cookie...don't underestimate the power of the Crusader bunnykins or she'll have you laying on the floor wondering why you don't carry your meds in a fanny pouch!! And no, I'm not CRU just in case that is slipping into the wee recesses of your brain....
Now, up off your fat ARSE and go get your meds.....or go chew on a wire in the house and see what happens....nasty folks deserve a little "shock" now and then....
Play nice bunny....
Grimm's never did it for me personally, but I'll do a web search under porno fairy tales, and see what I can come up with = trouble!
I don't take meds.
I don't give two bunnies about Cur.
I don't chew wires.
I'm not nasty.
(I've got a commenter who endorses porno fairy tales telling me this)
I am "playing nice".
As for this??:
And no, I'm not CRU just in case that is slipping into the wee recesses of your brain....
And no, I'm not CRU just in case that is slipping into the wee recesses of your brain....
And no, I'm not CRU just in case that is slipping into the wee recesses of your brain....
And no, I'm not CRU just in case that is slipping into the wee recesses of your brain....
And no, I'm not CRU just in case that is slipping into the wee recesses of your brain....
And no, I'm not CRU just in case that is slipping into the wee recesses of your brain....
And no, I'm not CRU just in case that is slipping into the wee recesses of your brain....
And no, I'm not CRU just in case that is slipping into the wee recesses of your brain....
"but I'll do a web search under porno fairy tales"
Might want to conduct a few other searches, while your at it...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ImD3agVjb0U&feature=related
A read of this Op Ed ...
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/11/19/AR2009111903470.html?hpid=opinionsbox1
... by 2 senior Bush Justice officials shows that this is not the obviously flawed decision that most Obama critics are describing. These experienced guys present several solid justifications for Holder's decision and they support it.
Just one example: "In deciding to use federal court, the attorney general probably considered the record of the military commission system that was established in November 2001. This system secured three convictions in eight years."
I'm not saying these guys are right: I don't have the legal background to weigh their arguments. All I'm saying is that there seems to be significant rationale for Holder's decision: Much more than the ever reactionary anti-Obama crowd would have us believe.
Bush's own senior Justice lawyers say that Holder had many solid reasons for trying Mohammed in a US Court.
Personally, I don't trust either side on this one..be it Bush hold-overs or Obama legal experts.
This whole scenario stinks.
Just another diversion to enrage us, and divide.
Corrupt lawyers and corrupt politicians doing their bidding..
meanwhile..
the NYPD and NYFD will be there en masse to protest these mockeries of justice .
a few blocks from ground zero..
Nothing short of treachery!
possee
But then I had to read what the mystical bunny said (more insults)...and hey bunny everybody needs a little fun every now and then...maybe staying up all night on a blog is your idea of a good time---notice I stopped writing early? Better things to do.....it's people like you that discourage the average Joe/Josephine from joining in on any banter in a forum such as this---being 'intimidated' isn't something I take kindly too---had enough of it lately at work, don't need it in my personal life, especially from a blog.
Decided to go 'cold turkey' on this blog writing/reading too---WB won't be happy with that---that means fewer advertisers when they realize that scum like you is on here 'frightening' nice ole ladies away with their intimidating and rude comments.
Editors take note---anyone that wanders on here by some fate and posts a few comments on here is eaten up by a sordid few that rule...Mav and of course margeykins
"...maybe staying up all night on a blog is your idea of a good time---notice I stopped writing early? Better things to do...."
True dat as the youngin's say, at least the keyboard got a few hours off.
I generally find it's a good time to, I dunno, get some sleep maybe.
I think cru has the record of 18 hrs. posting, but records were made to be broken.
Keyboard few hours off? Yeah amongst other things....
Did I just hear you say misery?
BWAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH!
Now that was humor, good job babycakes.
I don't know when you wandered on to CC2Day. As an innocent who had never been on a blog in his life I wandered on about four years ago to learn about the wind farm. From my experience on the Sound I saw inaccuracies in comments and realized many of the pro wind farm crowd had never left the beach and were distorting to promote their agenda. In an effort to expose the truth I started commenting and was immediately attacked.
Among those who personally slandered and insulted me were the editors and staff of CC2Day. I am actually a pretty nice guy with a beautiful bride, great children, grandchildren and a ton of friends.
So for the record those that you appeal to have been the worst offenders. You just weren't here to witness it.
So where and how do you think the 9/11 guys should be tried? Looks like we have 2 options:
1. Military Commissions
2. In court
And for you Peter---bend over! I'd love to give you some misery with a paddle, then you can understand what it feels like to get kicked in the ARSE at the worst possible time in your life---promise I'll be fun though Peter---I always keep it light and frolic like....
Margey must be at the drugstore searching out those meds she's in bad need of---send a few to a coworker enemy of mine would ya, I'll send you the address ....
Oh and Margey, what might you think I should be searching the net for besides pornographic fairy tales? Dare I ask?
PS...babycakes...I like cru and have conversed with her many times off the blog. The fact that I had never heard of her artist friend until he started the insults is neither here nor there. She knows how I feel and have a great deal of empathy for her current situation.
So, possee, you ever heard of innocent until proven guilty? Nah! That's 'cause your head's filled with the crap you hear on right-wing rant radio.
That's a fundamental principle of law, a principle that prevents the government from just locking you up and throwing away the key like they can do in China and still do in Russia.
By, definition, if an individual is acquitted of charges, be they murder or terrorism, that person is not a murderer or a terrorist.
OJ was acquitted of murder charges, though he did kill his wife and her friend, so legally he's not a murderer thanks to the ineptitude of the L.A. DA's office. I'm sure Johnny Cochran had OJ over to his house on occasion, too.
So it was up to the good guys, plaintiff's tort lawyers like me, to nail him in civil court for wrongful death, and they nailed him real good.
You need to think these things through a bit more, Poss.
Are you equating latter day "militia" members with rocket scientists? That's really going off the deep end.
I never accused McVeigh of being particularly intelligent, only being part of a group intent on doing damage to civilian populations in America as a strike against the government,something quite different from an armed force subject to military tribunals -but a lot like the al Qaeda cells that operate here and were responsible for 9/11.
You really need to learn how to do critical thinking, petey, instead of just thoughtless criticism of anything "liberal" which you've clearly mastered from listening to too much right-wing rant radio.
BTW, I studied constitutional law with the legal scholar and constitutional expert Prof. Herbert Wechsler, just as AG Holder did a year later. "Scooter" Libby was in my class, too, only we knew him as "Irv" then. So, where did you study constitutional law, petey?
I've argued several cases before the Mass. SJC and the U.S. Court of Appeals that involved constitutional issues. How many constitutional cases have you argued?
The mud slinging of cru' began when I went to the defense of a woman who was brutally murdered. That is the reason for the unjustified hostility. My blogs under Cape Cod Crusader have been here since early 2005, but it got so bad at one point, I took the entire blog down for a few months and re-posted my first blog about Christa that set off a firestorm of "for" and "against". I have taken much abuse for months and many say, "why stay there", good question, I often ask myself many days. So I take breaks, like I am now. Marge-psycho-bunny is most likely another attacker among the many I've encountered attempting to deter any exposure to the ugly truths about serious crime.
I've become busy with volunteerism in my hometown which I love. The experience of living on the Cape has forever changed me--both good and bad. Lessons learned, no regrets. I appreciate my roots more now than ever. We have a diverse population which is compassionate to neighbors. Occasionally, I will cruise here and may reply or just go on to more important things in my life. Thanks for your concern.
And all this time I mistakenly thought you were defending the murderer? Please, accept my most sincere apologies.
The anticipation is killing me.... did you win them?
Are you that challenged? Survey says: evidently so? Read what I wrote and then ask yourself:
"Do I look like and idiot grinning like a moron after someone told me that I was was smarter than an idiot or do I just look like a fool standing in the rain?
Studying law @ Colombia....BWAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHAHAHAHAH! You must have been absent for the Tenth Amendment class. Was Ward Churchill in your class?
Where did I study law, same place Ben Franklin did. Other than on my own, I have a relative who is a member of the bar in MA,NY and FL with whom, among others, I often discuss it rather robustly. The Constitution, like the Bible is a fascinating read.
Does being a student at a lightweight league liberal league institution of higher learning make you more qualified? I'm ready for a reasoned debate, give it your best shot.
And "...part of a group..."
What group would that be dick? The McVeigh/Nichols Saturday Night Star Trek Constitutional Study group?
"I've argued several cases before the Mass. SJC and the U.S. Court of Appeals that involved constitutional issues."
Well dick, your audience awaits. Are you going to throw us a bone?
Despite more tapes surfacing regarding a corrupt Acorn neither congress nor the media seems to have any interest in investigating.
Now Acorn is suing on constitutional grounds to have their funding(our hard earned tax money)restored.
Should I send them your business card?
Congress has already stripped ACORN of all of its federal funding, right?
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2009/09/17/congress-votes-strip-acorn-federal-funding/
What else do you want?
In a keyword search for "cape cod today the magician blog" I received this result:
"Latest comments - CapeCodToday Blog Chowder
This blog was fabricated to suck in Coddahs and sell advertising. Mission accomplished. ...... CapeCodToday...please bring back the Magician and Sis...."
Maverick
We all know why no investigation. Because it would lead us to Obama's back door.
Why do you say an ACORN investigation would lead to Obama? I'm no expert on this, but I believe the only direct connection is the fact that Obama represented ACORN in some legal case years ago.
Seriously, what are the supposed Obama-ACORN connections? Why is it reasonable to suspect that there's dirt to uncover?
Because if it was clean they would have welcomed an investigation and the whole thing would be behind us.
Sounds like you, like so many others, have fallen for a rather artful GOP campaign trick from last year which goes something like this:
1. ACORN is a favorite of the far left.
2. Obama can be portrayed as that way.
3. Obama did some legal work for ACORN years ago.
4. So, repeat the words "ACORN" and "Obama" in the same sentence over and over to plant the ACORN/Obama seed in peoples' minds.
The GOP did a great job of this during the campaign. Just one problem, however: There's precious little to connect ACORN and Obama.
Now, if you come up with something significant, I'll change my tune. Until then: There's no reason to assume some nefarious connection.
Now where have I heard that before?
That would be me buzzard,and nothing has changed.
Still the same disgusting obvious travesty of justice.
Seems most were deleted by CC2Day.
Hmmmm?
Notice how Mav loves to make anti-Obama statements that he can't back up. Somehow he has Obama and ACORN linked at the hip in his mind. Of course, he can't support that. I guess he's clairvoyant.
Did they let kindergarten out early today?
You've got a whole hour before the Pats game to defend your statement. Plenty of time if you've got something.
Oh well, we all know you don't. Embarrassed yourself again Mav! I'll say one thing: At least your consistent.
I'm no expert on this,{no shit dk, thanks for the heads up} but I believe the only direct connection is the fact that Obama represented ACORN in some legal case years ago.
However, the President disagreed:
Senator Obama said, "I come out of a grassroots organizing background. That's what I did for three and half years before I went to law school. That's the reason I moved to Chicago was to organize. So this is something that I know personally, the work you do, the importance of it. I've been fighting alongside ACORN on issues you care about my entire career. Even before I was an elected official, when I ran Project Vote voter registration drive in Illinois, ACORN was smack dab in the middle of it, and we appreciate your work.”
"...fighting alongside ACORN on issues you care about my entire career..."
"entire career" or "some legal case years ago"?
Looks like the Dynamic Duo has been pwned again.
BWAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH
Isn't there a nice chickflick/drama on Lifetime that you and Richard could watch?
You are only ONE part of the dynamic duo.... don't ever forget that.
We're looking for something bad. You know: Something illegal, something unethical, etc. Is there any evidence of that sort with Obama and ACORN?
But I'll give you some credit: You're way beyond Maverick who can't come up with a single thing to back up his statements.
Of course, you're both very good at showing your lack of class. Mav: "Kindergarten". You: "Chick flick".
I know: If you can't win the argument, resort to name calling. Classy!
25 minutes and counting, she gave me less than a half hour yesterday.
By the way it's chickflick not "Chick flick" and how's that name calling?
Guys and girls watch movies together all the time, why should the Batcave be any different?
For the owners of CCT they should be wary of allowing/encouraging big mouths like bunny to ward off newbies from feeling welcomed on this blog, bad for advertising, bad karma.
I enjoy the banter here, the pics, some of the topics are very interesting.
Volunteering is a way that we separate ourselves from the animals Cru. I teach power skating on a volunteer basis, help twice a week at a soup kitchen for the homeless and less fortunate, and various other volunteer activities in my home community that lets me know I'm 'alright'...again, living life is about more than blogging.....
Keep up the good work! And I think Ned is one talented dude myself--love his blog and his art. The insults on the dimples is a bit overdone, I have three personally, two on either side of my big pearly whites and a dimple on my chin for good measure! :) Love to have him sketch me!
A dimple here and there are great attributes. I had a guy ask me once if I had "fat arms" and "dimples at my elbows"...how f****ing insulting is THAT to a woman? He was just an average looking guy to the world, but to me he was everything, and I cherished him.
HE was judging me on the possibility of dimpled elbows? I had already lost those dimples, but to this day when naked after showering, I keep staring at my elbows in the mirror --it's caused a phobia in me I swear.....
People say my three dimples are a dead give away of a happy lady---I tend to agree---single Peter?
And so far, I've only read about ONE of the other's being busted....for far worse than acorn. At least no one DIES there.
and wtf???
"bitaaah! I was trying to research old posts regarding the obvious travesty of justice."
That was a WEALTH of information!!! Just gone? wth?
"-I tend to agree---single Peter?"
run peter run
Mine was the wrongly accused.
That's why I said that.
don't get uptight about it.
Just guessing...but the failure of the Army to include treason among the charges against the Fort Hood shooter shows us "which way the wind blows" on this issue.
R-5
wasserdrekken wrote: "-I tend to agree---single Peter?" run peter run
Who is Wasserdrekken?
Yes, and if Peter were single, handsome and SMART he would run...right into this 'ladies' arms.... lol
I have a funny feeling bunny you are very very SINGLE and might have several extra dimples to count out at showertime....not that there is anything wrong with that.....
Fool.....
So is the Cape as desolate in the winter as I picture it is? Booming in the summer months, which is when I visited last year---but somewhat 'sleep town' in the winter?
That f'ed up trial, and Bushco in office....
Didn't even really pay attention until the conviction...that's the first day I started blogging, being dumbfounded and mad as hell.
That is where cru came in. We were both blogging at cctimes, and she told me about this site. And her blogs here were huge huge info and excellent discussions about that case.
And from that, I learned first hand what an unjust system we have. And from Bushco I learned what a criminal gvt. we have, and nothing has changed since.
Which is why I don't believe the bogus story about Hasan. They are actually linking him to 9/11?
Aint that 'bout a b#tch???
How very very convenient and cosy.
Hey world!!-- Look this way!!...never mind the guys in shades slipping out the back door.
And I want these people on trial to tell us how they got NORAD to stand down on the morning of Sept. 11,2001.
btw..George Bush Senior announces "a New World Order" on Sept. 11, 1991.
Early 90's Ruuussshhhh takes off and over the radio.
coinkidink? OHN
That I posted Obama said his entire career was spent alongside ACORN?
Did I miss something?
Get over what, are you inferring I need you to shadow my thoughts?
I made a perfectly clear statement about his "association" with ACORN, nothing more, nothing less.
Back to you.
Grybowski---difficult one. I think she did it personally, and is quite protected by her connections to law enforcement/attornies etc. Lots of good reads around the Cape online on the subject, and I've read them all, the case fascinated me. I love the Worthington one too, but tragic---wrong man in prison on that one I fear...but that happens alot in the US.
Back to Christmas decorating....
Now cru, is this really necessary?
"makes me think of a loud mouthed opinionated ugly fat arsed bitch that intimidates me in my work place,"
Please release her name.
She gets free dinner, entertainment, drinks, endorsement, + encouragement
and I will pay for all.....CREUY-cakes.
Perhaps..there he goes again..you could infer that SEIU is OB'S favorite institution..
possee
"Yes, and if Peter were single, handsome and SMART he would run...right into this 'ladies' arms.... lol"
Why do you throw quotes around the word "ladies"???
Put that next to your previous
endorsement of pornographic
fairy tales, I'll tell you what:
If you ain't "Cru", then
you've got some really weird issues going on...
mav is buzz is cru is babycakes is somebunny is margebunny is peter is dk is richard is bitter?
Alice in the looking glass.
This is better than the last dose of 'orange sunshine" in 1969.
possee
Nothing promotes mediocrity like a strong uni*n.
"mav is buzz"
No way...
NO WAY-- I TOTALLY refuse to believe
Mav could be anyone other than himself.
It is a physical/psychological/ideological IMPOSSIBILITY.
You'd be better off to ask Archie Bunker to act like Tiny Tim....no way!
Is this the "royal order" of Leporidae of the order Lagomorpha?
possee
So be nice to us.
Mr..Infers a respectful position..sorry to offend.
'Gentlemen.."who came in?'
One of the best of the 3 stooges.
An in depth expose of SEIU might be another consideration..short, concise, as your 'conservative' blog ..
With "another" eloquent poster to match..
possee
Is it true what they say about them?
You know..
Any more morphing of furry creatures might induce a new spectre of Hefner.
possee
tip toe..quietly..
possee
Maybe he's like Queen Elizabeth.
Energized Bunnies who just keep going...going..
Probably most of those hollywood people
are....well, what you said.
And I'm not Cru, I'm just babycakes...Cru fights her own battles well enough and doesn't need a second poster to pick up for her, she has allies here, I've been reading this blog for almost a year now and everyone accuses every one of being someone else. It's friggin hilarious.
So Buzz are u Mav? Possee? Bitter? Hey, maybe you are Cru? Now that will get the masses thinking.
The only person I know who is really who they say they are is Ned, Dear Watson....
"The only person I know who is really who they say they are is Ned, Dear Watson...."
If you've been reading
the blog for a year,
you'd also know
who Mav is
"Dear Watson"
Why can't a 'lady' talk about pornographic fairy tales? Too far reaching in your mind---behind closed doors and all you know....
I had a bunny ears once in university, I dressed up as one of Hefner's gals--(would you like to see that picture to prove I'm not Cru?)...and to think all these years later I'd be sh** on by a bunny on a blog....
And the only ISSUE I have on this blog or otherwise is being attacked by a deranged bunny...now go back to your pen like a good bunny and take one of those big blue pills waiting for you there
Your Mother told you that.
anyone can say they are someone and back it with pictures and such, and they could just be using that person's ident as a persona on the blog, but that real person might not be the one doing the genius writing behind the character at all.....it could just be a 'play'....loving my quotes yet
Hey, I want to have a new name Bunnylicious.....
tell them a hookah smoking caterpillar has given you the call.
Gloves off, no nonsense..
and we male lesbians can decide..
who's the "lady du jour"..
and..
if bitter is not cru is not baby cakes is not margebunny is not somebunny.
and lay it to rest..no pun intended.
Yes, I was born a male lesbian and damn proud of it..
Besides, it's totally pc here in Massachoose-it'..
and I know how 'sensitive' some are..
possee
Possee, I'm with you----I'd do it if the rest would, no problem...I could come up with some interesting topic to write about weekly to make WB some bucks...hmm, "How to Tame Snakes", "How To Stay Alive At Work With a 340 lb Beeatch Gunning For Ya", my topics could be varied....
Ladies, any interest?
nah nah it wasn't my mother bunny ho it was my Boston boy that thought I was intelligent, not the best compliment to give a 'lady' but you take what you can get sometimes....
You are nuts.
Don't worry about
wether the new
Health Care Plan will
include
Dr. Kevorkian's services.
If you're involved, I'll pay the bill.
Glad we are dwindling the bunnies--margey must have taken her pills with her salad and is zoning out watching Bugs...
If you do change it your prior username..
there are some who will spend countless useless hours digging up any dirt, or droppings, under the rug..
let the bunnies have their day..
Mr Walker could be the moderator..given his sense of humor..
Peter wabbit and I have some things to discuss at the summit..
this might well be one of them.
We'll keep you posted.
possee
and I know how 'sensitive' some are..."
Oh, the humanity!
And babycakes, cool it with the "dimpled elbows" and "pornographic fairy tales".
Ned's on another thread bitchin', "...that ain't Wite-Out on my monitor glass..."
yet you PRAISE her + Ned.
Cru praises herself + Ned.
Now you're into this Grybowski thing.
Let's not forget this:
"And no, I'm not CRU just in case that is slipping into the wee recesses of your brain...."
You brought that one out right out
of the blue. Nobody had even mentioned it.
Guity complex?.....Definitely.
Nuttycakes.
"Possee, I'm with you----I'd do it if the rest would, no problem...I could come up with some interesting topic to write about weekly to make WB some bucks...hmm, "How to Tame Snakes", "How To Stay Alive At Work With a 340 lb Beeatch Gunning For Ya", my topics could be varied...."
THAT has "Crusader" written ALL OVER IT!
Well this Playboy Bunny (careful Peter pornographic connotation here) has to get her beauty sleep--I'll need to be on my toes tomorrow as I'm sure the heffer that stares holes through me at work will have gained a few from the Vachon cakes she ate this past weekend, and might think about knocking into me in the halls again---I need to be in top form to pray for safety!
soft-core
perv-in-a-tuxedo
who paved the
road for future pervs.
I am willing to post a pic and do my own f***ing blog if the rest will to prove there are more than 3 characters doing the typing for the whole blog....
I like Cru's writing style....
I think Ned is talented....
That makes me Cru? Or Ned?
You truly are one messed up furry beeaaatccchhhh
Might I suggest you don't stay up all night fighting with whoever appears online that you decide isn't worthy of being here---
Go take your meds
Go get laid....(okay just take your meds)...the latter might be impossible....
If you wore a bag, there would'nt be a problem to begin with.
I'm having Thanksgiving dinner in Joisey at my son, the evil insurance guy's house and his sister in law was one of the girls of the of the big ten.
Everyone looks at her in a different light now.
Where in Joisey?
I spent my latter years in Wayne,Bloomfield,Cherry Hill, Patterson, and other nefarious joints down there..
We have much to discuss at the summit.
This new pro-bunny blog is serious stuff.
possee
Jersey reminds me of a huge version of Revere but he's my son and I do love him but you can't even pump your own gas or take a left turn to save your life. Throw your GPS out the window!
And don't get me started on rotaries..."who has right of way is governed by local custom".
If I knew Joisy.....
Glad to hear it...care to explain a certain X-rated pic at 5 am of a white woman about to mount a black man???
And don't play dumb ....even though i'm not a Republican.....stickybuns never forgets.
How crazy is it that you show up on a blog where pornography is mentioned??
Marge---ahhh, you got some sleep last night ole girl---you'll be in top form today and aiming high--I'll remain with low balls....
....see I told ya the red ones work!
And about the bag---would if I could but it would draw too much attention to myself in that God forsaken place and give the beeaattch ideas---bag, groceries, food---I'd be in big trouble then...
Possee, when is the Summit occuring--hopefully on a weekend!
Mr Walker, being contacted this morning, had 'no comment".
Speculation concerning infiltration of members i.p addresses and e mails has evolved, as well as rumors that Beck/Hannity/Bush/Cheney/ and Limbaugh might video conference at the proposed summit.
There is even speculation that Sarah Palin might weigh in on a "rogue" satellite link.
Some investigations revealed the possibility of Blackwater being hired for security details.
Further updates will be posted.
possee
maverick holds the rank of Captain, whereas I am just a lowly latrine technician, so you'd have to go up the chain of command.
On the other hand "Bagdad Dick" Latimer is all knowing, so just look for the Justice League of America Bat-signal in the evening sky and all shall be revealed.
How very rude of me not to thank the counselor for hosting this discussion of the "Summit" on his blog.
Richard, your generosity is truly underwhelming.
Summit Disclosure...
1st Lt Peter Walker has served the committee well and continues his service today.***
Capt Jack Maverick is indeed the rank posted, and is next in the command chain of the committee.
Admiral Buzz(last name withheld for security)has held committee chairman position.
Please forward any further inquiries to the aforementioned committee members.
I will post further developments regarding the Summit, as they evolve, as Committee General Secretary.
possee/cgs
***(His diligence, and deep investigative reporting, has exposed the nefarious workings of the Justice League of America, and its leader Darth Lattimer/aka d.k., as witnessed recently.}
This site is dominated by women. And here all along I thought WB wore the pants. To Maggie...congrats.
PS...if I omitted anyone in error please comment and we will include you in future Summit broad casts.
"...Significant legal constitutional issues do not seem to be in play..."
R-5
Especially if you think that foreign-born stateless bandits dedicated to serial mass murder are entitled to the same Constitutional protections as Citizens and Legal Residents.
These people should have been promptly tried as hostes humani generis.
The fact that Bush and his crew did not have the political courage to take that step is the chief reason why we are facing the prospect of this wretched and shameful spectacle.
R5
By Rowan Scarborough
AP
"Navy SEALs have secretly captured one of the most wanted terrorists in Iraq
. And three of the SEALs who captured. him are now facing criminal charges.'
'Now, instead of being lauded for bringing to justice a high-value target, three of the SEAL commandos, all enlisted, face assault charges and have retained lawyers.'
'Ahmed Hashim Abed, whom the military code-named "Objective Amber," told investigators he was punched by his captors — and he had the bloody lip to prove it."
They should have capped him in Iraq.
I'm sure all you liberals are dancing in the streets on this news.
possee
I don't know if KSM should be tried in a US court or in a Military Tribunal. There are arguments on both sides.
Of course to our red meat eating friends on this site (unlike them I won't mention any names) there's no doubt. Military tribunals are the way to go.
That's a good example of the character of today's Conservative movement: Very macho and devoid of rational thought.
There really are tradeoffs between the courts and military tribunals but that doesn't give our conservative friends pause. Nope - the macho and supposedly more patriotic approach is always the way go to. And any body who disagrees is a wimpy defeatist.
**************************"He a man! Hell! He was a hollow sham!" (Joseph Conrad).********************
Now dick, how long did you think you could pull this off?
After, "I do want to thank dk for stepping up as he did.", it became pretty obvious as the repeated lexicon is a dead give away.
Is dk your office persona?
Richard: "...you got nuthin."
dk: "...you've got nothing"
Richard: "...you can tell from the increasingly shrill retorts from little petey that it's really getting to him."
dk: "Getting that mad shows that I'm getting to you."
Richard: "...with complex situations with appropriate subtlety, as opposed to the simple-minded ideological..."
dk: "...this complex issue calls for something that ideologues have trouble with..."
Your last dk comment, "devoid of rational thought." was a little too obvious even for you.
Richard, you really are a blithering idiot, regardless of which profile you use 14 penny boy.
I'll await some useful contribution to the discussion at hand: US Courts vs. Military Tribunals for KSM.
I know that you're much better at name calling and angry invective than reasonable discussion of such an issue. You know, every time you go postal on Richard and I without contributing to the debate, you reinforce what I said in my last post:
The Right has lost it. Rational thought is gone. All that is left is anger and machismo.
What do you think about Holder's decision?
What have they or their ancestors ever done to warrant the same consideration earned by the citizens of this great nation?
They came over, they killed people and they deserve to rot in hell!
Does that answer your question?
If not, I can type it again r-e-a-l s-l-o-w.
Being such a champion of critical analysis, why am I explaining this to you again?
Either that or he has bartered with WB to defend this site against any defamatory charges of which there are many.
You'll get no debate from me on those guys rotting in hell. The question before us, however, is best way to make that happen: Court trials or military tribunals.
Explain to me again, if you've supposedly done it, which is the better pathway to hell for these guys. That's the issue at hand.
Type it very slowly if that makes you feel better.
We're still waiting for you to write a post that comes even close to discussing the issues raised by Rich.
Awhile ago, when I was pushing you to back up something you'd said, Peter had to come to your rescue.
What do you think about Holder's decision?
So who's holding what now, Dick?
So, the superiority of Military Commissions may not be as obvious many assume. Here are some of the advantages of Courts:
- Commissions have secured only three convictions in eight years.
- There is great uncertainty about commissions' validity. This uncertainty has led to many legal challenges that will continue indefinitely
- By contrast, there is no question about the legitimacy of U.S. federal courts to incapacitate terrorists.
- In terrorist trials … federal prosecutors and judges have gained extensive experience protecting intelligence sources and methods, limiting a defendant's ability to raise irrelevant issues and tightly controlling the courtroom.
- Efforts to challenge due process are likely to have more traction in a military than a civilian court because of the former’s relatively loose rules of evidence, etc.
The courts might be better at sending these guys to hell.
I see that your holiday doesn't cover useless posts unrelated to the discussion. So... exactly what are you taking a vacation from?
I am "surprised" we seen one shred of information about that here on this site.
What's your position on "Climategate"?
This typo goes into Overdrive...
If you're stuttering, it does'nt look too good on text, BTW.
I'd like your comments on the Bush lawyers' arguments in favor of trying the 9/11 guys in Federal Court from my post of 6:44 PM on 11/27.
Don't they make it sound like the courts could be the best way to get these guys?
Please ask your sidekick to put up another communist blog and we will start all over again.
In the interim enjoy the holiday season, take the time to learn about the opposite sex and once you do...enjoy!
Not speaking for Mr Walker, but last time I spoke with him..he was still under a tryptophan hangover and deciding how to transport the trebochet, across state lines, to the upcoming summit.
My opinion?of the terrorists and judgement..
simple..
'Hang em High'
possee
I prefer the way Iraq handled the prosecution of Saddam.
not a 'hung jury' as we'd probably get in N.Y.
besides, 'the 911 guys'. (how quaint), have upcoming book tours, interviews at CNN, promised once released and free govt healthcare for life.
especially with a fellow sympathizer( Holder) at the reigns...
possee
He and dk are hoping for mention in KSM's new book. As in there is no such thing as bad publicity for an "Ambulance Chaser".
Like many, I started by assuming that Military Commissions would be better because, as terrorists, the 9/11 perpetrators do not deserve the rights accorded by our courts.
The editorial that I have mentioned numerous times, however, seems to indicate that we actually have a much better chance of hang'n these guys high if we use a federal court largely because Military Commissions have been ineffective and they're vulnerable to legal challenge.
So, it's not an issue of whether or not these guys should be strung up. That's a given. The question is: "Was AG Holder correct in choosing federal court over military commissions?".
My only point is that Holder's decision might not be as flawed as it appears at first glance. There are valid arguments for using the courts.
I see you still have no time, knowledge or guts to comment on the substance of the debate. Why do you post here Maverick? Just as an outlet for your not so clever banter?
Come on Maverick, gird your loins and take a shot at commenting on the issue at hand. This must be the 10th time I've challenged you to do this all without success. But better late than never.
Come on: You can do it!
"Why do you post here Maverick?"...for my own entertainment. No other reason. Don't hope or plan to change anyone's mind.
But if I can piss someone off! That is entertainment.
Military Commission vs Federal Courts.
Terrorism Justice: Courts Vs. Commissions
by Liz Halloran
http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=120849479&ft=1&f=1003
Even under new rules, military commissions differ from U.S. federal courts, as well as the military's court-martial system, in that they still permit coerced testimony obtained at the point of capture, or during related combat engagement.
Since the Sept. 11 attacks, 119 terrorism cases involving 298 defendants have been prosecuted in federal court — most frequently in courts in New York City and Northern Virginia. The courts have a 91 percent conviction rate; nearly 60 percent of the defendants pleaded guilty.
My concern is this..they alreay pleaded guilty, and even if found guilty of plotting , and killing 3000 innocents, will they face execution or life in prison at our expense?
I prefer Sharia justice on this one.
possee
I won't make the mistake of assuming that you are interested in discussing a subject again. How childish of me: Actually wanting to discuss an issue! What could I have been thinking?
Isn't it past your bedtime?
Unfortunately, Sharia justice isn't an option here. We have just the 2 options (Military Commission or Federal Court).
This Wikipedia link...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capital_punishment_by_the_United_States_federal_government
...shows that there is a federal death penalty. While few persons have suffered the federal death penalty in recent years, the most relevant case to the current case is Timothy McVeigh who pleaded NOT guilty, was convicted and then executed.
I don't think there's any problem with the federal death penalty.
Still, if a Military Commission would be faster, less of a media circus AND as or more dependable than a federal court trial, I'd argue for it. The editorial that I mentioned earlier just makes it sound like a commission is less dependable.
Not to mention:
Victims have a right to witness the prosecution of these who have done them harm.
We are a country of laws which lost it's way over the past eight years - we need to improve our standing in the world. Showing our faith in our legal system seems like a good place to start on repairing our reputation.
We can't hang the guys from AIG and Wallstreet who destroyed the economy but we can hang these guys.
It will be good for our National morale to watch SOMEONE pay for their crimes against us - we need a win...
I've also heard the following drawbacks of court trials:
- The incredible media circus. At least there won't be cameras in the courtroom (federal trials are not filmed). Still, we'll see breathless reporting from the steps of the court.
- David Brooks of the NY Times complains that court trials will give the defendants a platform.
So there are pros and cons. But Holder's decision doesn't appear to be the obvious mistake that many of us assumed it was when we first heard of it. There are pros and cons of each side.
I wouldn't underestimate the Government's need to have the anger of the masses focued on something other than the Government right now.
Yeah, to tell you the truth, Obama isn't doing very well these days. Did you read yesterday's NYT editorial on Obama and the Mid-east Peace process? He's really bungled that. He's about to go down the middle in attempt to make everyone happy in Afghanistan. That's crap. Many are saying that we may need a 2nd stimulus. I'm not sure if that's true but I believe this: If it were true, Obama would read the political tea leaves and use them to make a decision rather than fight for what's necessary.
He's not decisive enough.
Of course, when Health Care passes that will be truly historic. I spent Thanksgiving with a senior citizen relative, by the way, and it was amazing to hear how many of the Right's Health Care lies and scare tactics that she believes. She thinks that Obama's bill will somehow force here teacher retirement health insuance to be terminated! She can't tell me how, but somehow she's been led to believe that.
The more I see of McCain (esp. when he compared the Health Care Bill to the Madoff scam) the less respect I have for the man.
I wish Condi Rice was still Secretary of State.
Sarah Palin should replace Oprah...
The only kind of stimulus that will work is from the bottom up. People are on to the "top down" stimulus plans and realize the money just never reaches our level.
I'm expecting rioting in the streets when Wall Street bonuses hit the news at year end.
I'm off on my good dog deed of the day, have fun everyone...
there's a catbox
next to the monitor.
The Republicat deception continues.
possee
It looks like you're a charter Member of the Maureen "I'm just to clever I can't stand it" Dowd school of writing.
Please, pleases don't direct your rapier-like wit at me. I won't be able to stand it!
Well, there were a few posts but nothing but bottom feeding. Yeah, this one is about done.
margebunny,
"This site is all about offering opinion. When one does that, he/she is not setting himself up as "judge". J.madden offered opinion. You got a problem with that? If so, I'd say ignore this blog."
Here is the post you referred to:
j. madden [Member] writes:
"dk...speaking of courage did you ever serve in the military?" What a loaded question, outrageous as well. I did serve in the military. And, I did in part, so no American would be asked to respond to questions such as this. Digital ugliness and out of bounds, flung out as a comment on Veterans Day - nasty."
Before you attempt to correct me with a lecture
on "what this site is all about"
take a look at the very last word
in jmadden's post: "nasty".
That's ABOUT AS JUDGEMENTAL as a poster
can get, so your "correction"
of ME obviously falls flat on it's face.
RE:"J.madden offered opinion"
He passed judgement with one word: nasty.
Please accept my abject apologies for the phrase: "This site is all about offering opinion". That's what I'd like it to be about but, as you correctly state, I don't get to set the rules.
I'm using all of my limited powers of deduction to find out what the heck you're saying. Are you saying that I have no right to take a swipe at you after you take a gratuitous swipe at my and Jane's writing style? And are you using a single bad word uttered many moons ago in a completely different blog by an uninvolved blogger as justification?
If that's what you're saying all I can say is: "That does not compute".
Marge,
"Please accept my abject apologies"
If your apologies are abject,
I don't want them
so don't plead with me.
You wrote:
"as you correctly state, I don't get to set the rules."
I don't recall stating this to you. Could you please point out where I did?
You wrote:
"Are you saying that I have no right to take a swipe at you after you take a gratuitous swipe at my and Jane's writing style?"
It was'nt a swipe. Neither was it gratuitous.
It was an unbiased, practical, logical observation
as too many people write monotonously
complaining, correcting, critical
rebuttals devoid of upliftment
and it's psychologically cancerous.
What I posted was an accurate observation.
O.K., the catbox reference was a little gross, but it was essentially true.
My postponed reply to your post
on Vet's Day is justified.
I just wanted to use it now as you're getting
a little too big for your britches...
I think I see where you're coming from: You consider writing about something substantive to be monotonous and boring. Use all that extra time to go back and look at the posts that you contrasted to cat boxes (whatever that means!). Hey, I'm sorry that those weren't jaunty, precious, one-liner laden posts. Forgive us, but we were actually trying to discuss something.
It looks like actually discussing an issue is lost on you Marge. Oh well, you can't please everyone. Just skip my posts if they're to heavy for you.
I find it interesting that so many recent blogs have not proposed any new ideas nor content. But have been fashioned to rebut comments by the readers.
Who are the guilty parties?
Billy Snowjob, Nerdy Ned, WB(of lyp-sync fame)and last but not least Rich the "Ambulance Chaser".
possee
There used to be 4 Horsemen of the Apocalypse.
You've changed all that.
You wait, like vulture for innocent minds to twist with your communist logic.
You wait, to mesmerize unsuspecting voters who know nothing of your true agenda.
You wait, lurking in the catacombs of ignorance and human folly.
You wait, staring at "recent blog comments" on the front page, seeking victims.
dkfalmouth wrote erroneously:
"You consider writing about something substantive "
Some may differ.
Politics is a messy, disgusting bag of lies but it's a good
medium by which to infect weak minds
with twisted propaganda.
I've seen you on other threads, posting and I know that
you're seeking out unfortunates
to indoctrinate into your Evil Empire.
You wrote:
"Just skip my posts if they're to heavy for you."
They are simply logs blocking the road to mankind's future.
And so they ROT!
And you are HIGH-HATTED!
possee
Perhaps the dark one will comeout of the cave to repudiate your remarks.
Now that would be a substantive debate.
bunnyhydra vs counsellor omnipotent.
possee
"Cute stuff Marge. You're such a cutey!"
There you go Possee--
Sometimes when you expose these devils
for what they are, they become... "silly".
When logic is exhausted
they resort to infantile, meaningless, gurgling.
Sort of like that girl on The Exorcist did...
I just got done telling this guy he
posts like there's a catbox next to the
monitor and now he's calling me a "cutey".
Is there a psychiatric issue involved here
or can I sell him a used car?
What do you think?
"Cute stuff Marge. You're such a cutey!"
This is useless!
Post something constructive and stop acting childish.
I'll bow out now because this has gotten very childish. Partly my fault. But you started it Marge by making a gratuitous swipe at Jane and my writing style. My mistake was to take the bait.
"Well, Marge you are cute! Clever! That's your purpose here, right? You should take that as a complement."
You are'nt "getting out" of this one, dkFalmouth.
You wrote:
"My mistake was to take the bait."
No one is "fishing" and that was your 1st mistake.
You wrote:
"That's your purpose here, right?"
Instead of attempting to discern "my purpose"
perhaps you should stick to the issues.
No wonder these jarheads walk all over you.
You wrote:
"this has gotten very childish"
I don't think so at all.
I consider it the normal course
of affairs when my opponents
revert to incoherent babble.
Some of them still do...
You wrote:
"You should take that as a complement."
Please pay attention. Compliment:
C-O-M-P-L-I-M-E-N-T
Hope that's "cute" enough...
dkfalmouth will also admit when doesn't know something.
As far as being a spelling and typo tyrant, some of us are tired from work and make mistakes when posting comments from time to time.
Since we can't edit comments after posting typos slip through now and then!
is part of an "in joke" with some
commenters here regarding someone else.
I really did'nt mean what I posted
the other day to you
or dk to sound
offensively and i'm sorry.
I think you're both intelligent
wonderful people and I'll
not be conflicting again.
Enjoy.
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About This Blog
Richard Latimer is a 1972 graduate of U. Mass, Amherst and a 1975 graduate of the Columbia University School of Law and was admitted to the Massachusetts Bar in 1975, the U.S. District Court, D. Mass. in 1976, and the First Circuit Court of Appeals in 1977.
He and his wife of 39 years, Adrienne, have a 22-year-old son Brian, a 2006 graduate of Falmouth High School, who is presently enrolled at Fitchburg State College majoring in media, communications and film studies. Richard has been active in local Falmouth politics, presently as a Town Meeting member and present Chairman of the Planning Board.
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Do you think he can get a fair trial in NY? Maybe an impartial jury that hadn't heard of the attacks of 9/11...you know, the OJ jury.
Which rules of law and procedures should be adhered to and which should be discarded to allow a fair trial for both sides?
How will we prevent national security related information, like informants, and agents, from being exposed to defense related evidence and probing?
Let's hope its a swift trial and martyrdom comes quickly.