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:: Tuesday, March 9th, 2010Editorial
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An Open Letter to Secretary Ken Salazar
02/08/10 · 5:30 am :: posted by CCToday
Dear Mr. Salazar,
I have been a journalist on Cape Cod for 45 years and yet never witnessed the undemocratic and truly un-American nastiness of the opponents to America's first offshore wind farm here.
Here is the link to send a letter to Interior Secretary Salazar.
If you reject this lawful, and painstakingly studied project to proceed YOU WILL DESTROY AMERICA'S RENEWABLE ENERGY REVOLUTION which you say you and our President want for our country.
If a private company plays by YOUR rules, twice, not once, and hazards $30 million of his own, and you still deny its application, no entrepreneur with a brain or a bankroll will ever trust this process again.
You will condemn America to the greed of foreign fossil fuel profiteers, and we will forever be dependent on Arab oil.
I am 80-years-old, and I thought I had seen it all until this, but for the sake of my grandchildren AND YOURS, do not wait a minute after March 1, 2010 to accept your own department's thorough EIS for Cape Wind and start America's renewable energy revolution today.
Walter Brooks, Editor & Publisher, Cape Cod TODAY
41 comments
Blog posts and comments are entirely the thoughts and ideas of the people who write them and in no way represent the views of CapeCodToday.com, eCape, Inc., or its employees or owners.
possee [Member] writes:
neil good [Member] writes:
“What happens to Cape Wind, whether it goes up or goes down, will not be determinative of the future of wind energy in the United States.”
Correct..
Despite all the hand wringing here pro/con and otherwise.
the absolute fact remains..
with untold billions of oil investments and, the fact that all products globally are petroleum based in one form or another..
big oil, and its international banking cabal, (despite world outcry against them), will determine the future of wind/solar and alternative energies...period.
Not the governments
nor the citizens.
nor the bloggers on Cape Cod.
possee
“What happens to Cape Wind, whether it goes up or goes down, will not be determinative of the future of wind energy in the United States.”
Correct..
Despite all the hand wringing here pro/con and otherwise.
the absolute fact remains..
with untold billions of oil investments and, the fact that all products globally are petroleum based in one form or another..
big oil, and its international banking cabal, (despite world outcry against them), will determine the future of wind/solar and alternative energies...period.
Not the governments
nor the citizens.
nor the bloggers on Cape Cod.
possee
Ludwig II [Member] writes:
Brilliant, boys, now give your waiting public the name of another businessman who would wait a decade, spend $30,000,000 of his own money, and not have any confidence that the system would play by their own rules.
Ted from Hyannis Port [Member] writes:
Anyone who has followed Good and Posse know they are longtime apologists for the fossil fuel companies funding the Alliance to block renewable energy for their own, selfish interests.
What do these financial wizards want ? A government owned energy monopoly?
Cape Wind followed the rules, not once, but twice, and the people like Good and Posse are willing to change the rules over and over again to allow the Arabs to control our energy economy.
Shame on you both.
What do these financial wizards want ? A government owned energy monopoly?
Cape Wind followed the rules, not once, but twice, and the people like Good and Posse are willing to change the rules over and over again to allow the Arabs to control our energy economy.
Shame on you both.
possee [Member] writes:
Shell Oil Co. and BP plc (formerly British Petroleum) recently have become two of the largest investors in commercial wind power in the United States. Shell ranks among the top five wind-power generators, while BP has announced its intent to develop projects producing 550 megawatts of electricity - one-sixth of total wind output projected for the United States.
• BP and Shell both have said that the primary motivation for investing in wind power is to make money. Market forecasts predict that "renewable" (non-fossil fuel) energy sources will supply one-third of the world's electricity by 2050.
source..
http://www.naturalnews.com/021702.html
• BP and Shell both have said that the primary motivation for investing in wind power is to make money. Market forecasts predict that "renewable" (non-fossil fuel) energy sources will supply one-third of the world's electricity by 2050.
source..
http://www.naturalnews.com/021702.html
possee [Member] writes:
Sorry Ted
Only pointing out the facts..
I have no love of the oil industry..
but facts is facts..
Then again, anyone who reveals the facts is repudiated to be against the wind farms..
I only state that expediency to any alternative energies is admirable, but the banks and investors determine the outcome..
possee
Only pointing out the facts..
I have no love of the oil industry..
but facts is facts..
Then again, anyone who reveals the facts is repudiated to be against the wind farms..
I only state that expediency to any alternative energies is admirable, but the banks and investors determine the outcome..
possee
possee [Member] writes:
The fallacy of "good intentions' is always overshadowed by one simple concept...money.
Anyone who is not for energy independence from oil is but a fool.
However, if one does the numbers, big oil controls the energy worldwide and had you read my next comment..it reinforces my initial claim.
And the claim about affiliation with the Alliance...absurd...
I'm all for wind energy..
possee
Anyone who is not for energy independence from oil is but a fool.
However, if one does the numbers, big oil controls the energy worldwide and had you read my next comment..it reinforces my initial claim.
And the claim about affiliation with the Alliance...absurd...
I'm all for wind energy..
possee
nofreewind [Member] writes:
“AMERICA'S RENEWABLE ENERGY REVOLUTION” is inspired by Denmark, as the various sponsored trips to see the wind farms of Denmark prove.
The Danish Experiment with wind has failed as this video clearly shows.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qgUsun3hIT0
The Secretary and our President are well advised to take notice.
The Danish Experiment with wind has failed as this video clearly shows.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qgUsun3hIT0
The Secretary and our President are well advised to take notice.
breeze [Member] writes:
If the Danish use of wind has failed, why are they continuing to enlarge their use of turbines, on land and offshore as fast as they can? We need to be as smart as those Vikings!
possee [Member] writes:
Yes. the system changes the rules as it sees fit..or hasn't anyone noticed?
Again and again, everyone espouses or refutes the proposed wind farm .
Why would an investor put up 30 mil of his own money, and wait 10 years to even begin such an investment?
Profit.
Shortsightedness by proponents of Mr Gordon fail to recall his failed venture into a diesel fuel plant in Chelsea in 2006.
Diesel plant proposed for Chelsea
Critics see hypocrisy by Cape Wind firm
By Beth Daley, Globe Staff | July 3, 2006
The company fighting to build a landmark clean wind power project off Cape Cod is raising eyebrows among friends and foes alike with its latest energy idea: a diesel-burning power plant in Chelsea across the street from the city's elementary school complex that will emit soot and other pollutants.
Energy Management Inc., which is headed by Cape Cod wind developer Jim Gordon.
source..
http://www.boston.com/news/local/articles/2006/07/03/diesel_plant_proposed_for_chelsea/
Again and again, everyone espouses or refutes the proposed wind farm .
Why would an investor put up 30 mil of his own money, and wait 10 years to even begin such an investment?
Profit.
Shortsightedness by proponents of Mr Gordon fail to recall his failed venture into a diesel fuel plant in Chelsea in 2006.
Diesel plant proposed for Chelsea
Critics see hypocrisy by Cape Wind firm
By Beth Daley, Globe Staff | July 3, 2006
The company fighting to build a landmark clean wind power project off Cape Cod is raising eyebrows among friends and foes alike with its latest energy idea: a diesel-burning power plant in Chelsea across the street from the city's elementary school complex that will emit soot and other pollutants.
Energy Management Inc., which is headed by Cape Cod wind developer Jim Gordon.
source..
http://www.boston.com/news/local/articles/2006/07/03/diesel_plant_proposed_for_chelsea/
neil good [Member] writes:
"Good and Posse are willing to change the rules over and over again to allow the Arabs to control our energy economy."
This only shows how misinformed Ted from Hyannisport is about the U.S. and global energy. Most of our imported oil comes from CANADA and MEXICO.
The U.S. Energy Information Adminsistration reported in January-
"Canada remained the largest exporter of total petroleum in November, exporting 2.527 million barrels per day to the United States, which is an increase from last month (2.360 thousand barrels per day). The second largest exporter of total petroleum was Mexico with 1.083 million barrels per day."
This only shows how misinformed Ted from Hyannisport is about the U.S. and global energy. Most of our imported oil comes from CANADA and MEXICO.
The U.S. Energy Information Adminsistration reported in January-
"Canada remained the largest exporter of total petroleum in November, exporting 2.527 million barrels per day to the United States, which is an increase from last month (2.360 thousand barrels per day). The second largest exporter of total petroleum was Mexico with 1.083 million barrels per day."
Ted from Hyannis Port [Member] writes:
Walter takes the Ferrari off road now and then.
Dick Farley [Member] writes:
Brooks is absolutely correct but is much too kind to the "Obamanables."
Across their governance process we see incompetence and hypocrisy driven by failed ideology and metastatic naivete.
After "Scott Brown's shot heard 'round the world," and your Massachusetts Uprising's putting Kennedy & Camelot in the political graveyard, retail politics shifted in every jurisdiction across America.
Pelosi, Reid, Emmanuel, Michelle "Black Jackie" and Barry Hussein from Hawaii (or Kenya) himself are all in full-tilt panic, awakening to an obviously highly troubling reality for them that: "It's still America as long as WE say it's America," ringing loudly from editorial pages and new candidates tossing their hats in the rings for 2010.
ObamaNation is defunct, so expect to see deployment of extreme elements to distract, using street protests, hate, fear and envy to fragment and polarize citizens, into which resultant chaos they will try to "ride to the rescue."
Obama's in denial, but the ghost of Jimmy Carter and actions of Bibi Netanyahu will soon collide to interrupt our fuel flow.
Across their governance process we see incompetence and hypocrisy driven by failed ideology and metastatic naivete.
After "Scott Brown's shot heard 'round the world," and your Massachusetts Uprising's putting Kennedy & Camelot in the political graveyard, retail politics shifted in every jurisdiction across America.
Pelosi, Reid, Emmanuel, Michelle "Black Jackie" and Barry Hussein from Hawaii (or Kenya) himself are all in full-tilt panic, awakening to an obviously highly troubling reality for them that: "It's still America as long as WE say it's America," ringing loudly from editorial pages and new candidates tossing their hats in the rings for 2010.
ObamaNation is defunct, so expect to see deployment of extreme elements to distract, using street protests, hate, fear and envy to fragment and polarize citizens, into which resultant chaos they will try to "ride to the rescue."
Obama's in denial, but the ghost of Jimmy Carter and actions of Bibi Netanyahu will soon collide to interrupt our fuel flow.
possee [Member] writes:
Unlike most,but not all, legislation..
once enacted it can not be repealed/modified on future votes..
Once built, if approved, the wind farm will be a permanent fixture on Nantucket Sound.
The investors are putting their bets on a return on their investment..period.
The debates, and conjectures, on whether or not rates go up or down,better air quality, or reduction on foreign oil dependence are nil..til proven otherwise.
Meanwhile...
"First,we are in the shadow of the states largest coal and oil fueled power plants,
Brayton Point and the Canal Plant."
"Second,the Cape has its maximum influx of
automobiles and trucks in the summer season .."
"And finally,we are downwind of the numerous
Midwest coal burning power plants in Ohio, Pennsylvania and the Virginias, thus we are
subject to the “transport” phenomenon of pollutants from upwind states. Although
difficult to quantify,Commissioner Golledge of the MA DEP has said up to half our
pollution is from the upwind states."
source...
Air Quality – Ozone ExceedancesBy Charles Kleekamp, Cape Clean Air
possee
once enacted it can not be repealed/modified on future votes..
Once built, if approved, the wind farm will be a permanent fixture on Nantucket Sound.
The investors are putting their bets on a return on their investment..period.
The debates, and conjectures, on whether or not rates go up or down,better air quality, or reduction on foreign oil dependence are nil..til proven otherwise.
Meanwhile...
"First,we are in the shadow of the states largest coal and oil fueled power plants,
Brayton Point and the Canal Plant."
"Second,the Cape has its maximum influx of
automobiles and trucks in the summer season .."
"And finally,we are downwind of the numerous
Midwest coal burning power plants in Ohio, Pennsylvania and the Virginias, thus we are
subject to the “transport” phenomenon of pollutants from upwind states. Although
difficult to quantify,Commissioner Golledge of the MA DEP has said up to half our
pollution is from the upwind states."
source...
Air Quality – Ozone ExceedancesBy Charles Kleekamp, Cape Clean Air
possee
possee [Member] writes:
Mr Farley and Mr Good..
Thank you.
Facts is facts.
possee
Thank you.
Facts is facts.
possee
possee [Member] writes:
Mr Farley
Amen to that.
How's your 401 doin?
Political and economic implosion 2010..
possee
Amen to that.
How's your 401 doin?
Political and economic implosion 2010..
possee
bittersweet [Member] writes:
Nah...Ted is right---
You are aplogists for Big Oil, Big Money, Big Wealth.
"Never witnessed the undemocratic and truly un-American nastiness of the opponents to America's first offshore wind farm here."--
Amen! And not to mention the same attitude towards our first black president. Deny all you want--it's the damn truth.
How else would you have a talk-show host calling himself Obama's "daddy"?
And Miss Nasty-Pants herself saying "you better listen, or else"
Nah--it's all about keeping things JUST like they are...cause it's good for THEM.
I ME MINE...the creed of the Republicans and those on the right side of the political spectrum.
And that's how they want to keep it.
You are aplogists for Big Oil, Big Money, Big Wealth.
"Never witnessed the undemocratic and truly un-American nastiness of the opponents to America's first offshore wind farm here."--
Amen! And not to mention the same attitude towards our first black president. Deny all you want--it's the damn truth.
How else would you have a talk-show host calling himself Obama's "daddy"?
And Miss Nasty-Pants herself saying "you better listen, or else"
Nah--it's all about keeping things JUST like they are...cause it's good for THEM.
I ME MINE...the creed of the Republicans and those on the right side of the political spectrum.
And that's how they want to keep it.
Dick Farley [Member] writes:
Cape Wind is not about ending reliance on foreign oil or putting coal burning into the history books, climate change or saving sinking South Sea islanders.
Jim Gordon's initiative was and remains about investing capital and technology in a more balanced, less "brittle" mix of fuel sources for America's future.
Amory Lovins' "Brittle Power" in 1983, by Sierra Club Books ironically, laid this out to wide acclaim but little action in response.
If America's ambivalence thus far in the Middle East and Bibi Netanyahu's fear and impatience collide, a likely embargo of Arab oil and interruptions by Venezuela, Mexico and even Canada to punish our support for Israel, will put our nation into deep trouble.
Then, having as many alternative energy options, including a relative few wind turbines on distant horizons, will be understood as the patriotic stance Jim Gordon tried to take with Cape Wind.
Brooks is correct. If Cape Wind crashes what sane investor will try to broaden our energy mix? With constrained capital flows Gordon's patriotism is unlikely to be repeated any time soon!
Jim Gordon's initiative was and remains about investing capital and technology in a more balanced, less "brittle" mix of fuel sources for America's future.
Amory Lovins' "Brittle Power" in 1983, by Sierra Club Books ironically, laid this out to wide acclaim but little action in response.
If America's ambivalence thus far in the Middle East and Bibi Netanyahu's fear and impatience collide, a likely embargo of Arab oil and interruptions by Venezuela, Mexico and even Canada to punish our support for Israel, will put our nation into deep trouble.
Then, having as many alternative energy options, including a relative few wind turbines on distant horizons, will be understood as the patriotic stance Jim Gordon tried to take with Cape Wind.
Brooks is correct. If Cape Wind crashes what sane investor will try to broaden our energy mix? With constrained capital flows Gordon's patriotism is unlikely to be repeated any time soon!
excaper [Member] writes:
Cape Wind has always attempted to spin itself into the "big picture" by using the End of Big Oil and Coal plants, halting Climate Change and ridding the planet of that nasty CO2... Come on Dick, we all know that if Cape Wind fails it will fail on its arrogance and non-negotiable siting stance. Others will be built, no question about that... they are underway and they have gone through the proper hoops... and competitive bidding, unlike you know who!
nofreewind [Member] writes:
The rejection of Cape wind is not likely to stop the quest to build wind farms. There have already been reversals for projects on Long Island Sound, and Delaware with no apparent slowdown elsewhere.
The engine that drives the demand for wind farms is based on government mandates like the Massachusetts Green Communities Act, which requires that 25% of our energy comes from renewable energy by the year 2030. Renewable energy sources, like wind turbines, are intermittent and tend to produce power independent of demand. The promise of pollution free energy is very attractive, but, in reality, the need to balance the intermittent power produced by renewable energy sources with fossil fuel power plants, negates any value that can be gained.
Continued:
The engine that drives the demand for wind farms is based on government mandates like the Massachusetts Green Communities Act, which requires that 25% of our energy comes from renewable energy by the year 2030. Renewable energy sources, like wind turbines, are intermittent and tend to produce power independent of demand. The promise of pollution free energy is very attractive, but, in reality, the need to balance the intermittent power produced by renewable energy sources with fossil fuel power plants, negates any value that can be gained.
Continued:
nofreewind [Member] writes:
From an Economics point of view, state mandates, and the federal Cap and Trade bill, will more than double the cost of electricity. What we need to decide is whether our economy can stand the high increase in the cost of energy.
Unless the rest of the world is ready to join in the effort to save us from Global Warming, the answer is a very definite NO.
Unless we are successful is getting China, India, Russia and others to make the same enforceable commitment, all we are going to accomplish is economic suicide.
Unless the rest of the world is ready to join in the effort to save us from Global Warming, the answer is a very definite NO.
Unless we are successful is getting China, India, Russia and others to make the same enforceable commitment, all we are going to accomplish is economic suicide.
neil good [Member] writes:
So Dick, I trust you would agree that many [or most all?] of the claims made by Cape Wind on its web page about "...reducing our dependence on foreign energy", or how "...Cape Wind can help slow global warming", or [biggest laugh of all] how Cape Wind could help slow an alleged dangerous rise in sea level, are just part of an elaborate misinformation campaign?
The sea level rise ‘lie’ is particularly tiring to hear over and over from Cape Wind and its supporters. There isn’t a shred of evidence to show sea levels are rising at an alarming rate.
Remember what Einstein said-
“Anyone who doesn't take truth seriously in small matters cannot be trusted in large ones either.”
The sea level rise ‘lie’ is particularly tiring to hear over and over from Cape Wind and its supporters. There isn’t a shred of evidence to show sea levels are rising at an alarming rate.
Remember what Einstein said-
“Anyone who doesn't take truth seriously in small matters cannot be trusted in large ones either.”
nofreewind [Member] writes:
breeze:
Read this, and then tell us why "We need to be as smart as those Vikings!".
"Flemming Nissen, the head of development at West Danish generating company ELSAM (one of Denmark’s largest energy utilities) tells us that “wind turbines do not reduce carbon dioxide emissions.” The German experience is no different. Der Spiegel reports that “Germany’s CO2 emissions haven’t been reduced by even a single gram,” and additional coal- and gas-fired plants have been constructed to ensure reliable delivery."
http://network.nationalpost.com/np/blogs/fpcomment/archive/2009/04/08/wind-power-is-a-complete-disaster.aspx
Read this, and then tell us why "We need to be as smart as those Vikings!".
"Flemming Nissen, the head of development at West Danish generating company ELSAM (one of Denmark’s largest energy utilities) tells us that “wind turbines do not reduce carbon dioxide emissions.” The German experience is no different. Der Spiegel reports that “Germany’s CO2 emissions haven’t been reduced by even a single gram,” and additional coal- and gas-fired plants have been constructed to ensure reliable delivery."
http://network.nationalpost.com/np/blogs/fpcomment/archive/2009/04/08/wind-power-is-a-complete-disaster.aspx
Dick Farley [Member] writes:
excaper and Neil:
Jim Gordon's initial effort to build Cape Wind sited where it will be was good business then and now, as well as patriotic, logical and visionary. If it were to be profitable, all the better!
Every energy and fuel source is subsidized, which is how policy is influenced and directed by "national preferences." Yucca Mountain? Also, do we subsidize mountain top removal with lower electricity price demands?
And no, I'd not defend Clean Power Now's "campaign shift" to capitalize on Obama and Al Gore's ascencions, once Bush League vacated the White House.
Young activists seduced by Greenpeace are not Jim Gordon's problem or fault.
Cape Wind's value to a diverse energy mix and strategic fuel flexibility is unaffected by Caped Crusaders of whatever faction.
In Bush years, Dick Armey was among Cape Wind's lobbyist corps; or "corpse" as Obama recently said that word. At the time, Big Greens supported Cape Wind as an anti-Bush tool, but bailed on Jim upon Barry Obama's coronation.
Coal supplies 56% today of Washington, DC's electricity; nuclear 31%. Alas.
Jim Gordon's initial effort to build Cape Wind sited where it will be was good business then and now, as well as patriotic, logical and visionary. If it were to be profitable, all the better!
Every energy and fuel source is subsidized, which is how policy is influenced and directed by "national preferences." Yucca Mountain? Also, do we subsidize mountain top removal with lower electricity price demands?
And no, I'd not defend Clean Power Now's "campaign shift" to capitalize on Obama and Al Gore's ascencions, once Bush League vacated the White House.
Young activists seduced by Greenpeace are not Jim Gordon's problem or fault.
Cape Wind's value to a diverse energy mix and strategic fuel flexibility is unaffected by Caped Crusaders of whatever faction.
In Bush years, Dick Armey was among Cape Wind's lobbyist corps; or "corpse" as Obama recently said that word. At the time, Big Greens supported Cape Wind as an anti-Bush tool, but bailed on Jim upon Barry Obama's coronation.
Coal supplies 56% today of Washington, DC's electricity; nuclear 31%. Alas.
neil good [Member] writes:
Breeze,
Wind power is not nearly as 'successful' in Denmark as you have been led to believe, but the wind power industry - worldwide - will do all it can to keep you in the dark. I’ve heard that before Denmark’s love affair with wind ‘promotion’ and turbine manufacturing took off in a big way [...saddled on the backs of rate-payers], the country’s primary export commodity were those plastic toy Lego building blocks. How much prestige do you think that brought to Denmark compared to today? Is there any wonder why the Danish government pushes wind power development outside their borders? If you delve deep into the subject, you’ll find even the Danes are getting weary of the visual intrusion, high cost and exaggerated benefits of wind power.
Wind power is not nearly as 'successful' in Denmark as you have been led to believe, but the wind power industry - worldwide - will do all it can to keep you in the dark. I’ve heard that before Denmark’s love affair with wind ‘promotion’ and turbine manufacturing took off in a big way [...saddled on the backs of rate-payers], the country’s primary export commodity were those plastic toy Lego building blocks. How much prestige do you think that brought to Denmark compared to today? Is there any wonder why the Danish government pushes wind power development outside their borders? If you delve deep into the subject, you’ll find even the Danes are getting weary of the visual intrusion, high cost and exaggerated benefits of wind power.
Dave Kent [Member] writes:
Neil,
Let’s be fair here. You have correctly pointed out that Cape Wind is spinning the facts when it talks about reducing dependence upon foreign energy because very little foreign fuel is used to produce power in New England. That’s Cape Wind spin.
But for your other complaints (global warming, sea levels) to hold water, you’ve gotta rely upon the old “Cape Wind will be nothing more than a drop in the bucket” rationale. And, of course, the problem with that rationale is that is can be used against ANY single power plant. Even the largest non-fossil power plant in the country (surely a nuclear plant) is a drop in the bucket using that thinking. That rationale would lead us to never build a renewable plant: Why bother? It’ll just be a drop in the bucket.
The only way we’ll make progress on clean energy is drop by drop: One power plant at a time.
Let’s be fair here. You have correctly pointed out that Cape Wind is spinning the facts when it talks about reducing dependence upon foreign energy because very little foreign fuel is used to produce power in New England. That’s Cape Wind spin.
But for your other complaints (global warming, sea levels) to hold water, you’ve gotta rely upon the old “Cape Wind will be nothing more than a drop in the bucket” rationale. And, of course, the problem with that rationale is that is can be used against ANY single power plant. Even the largest non-fossil power plant in the country (surely a nuclear plant) is a drop in the bucket using that thinking. That rationale would lead us to never build a renewable plant: Why bother? It’ll just be a drop in the bucket.
The only way we’ll make progress on clean energy is drop by drop: One power plant at a time.
neil good [Member] writes:
Sure Dave, I'm always in favor of being fair- completely fair. I think it's interesting to see how often you claim that “lies’ are told by Cape Wind opponents, but when and if you critique Cape Wind you never use similar language. They only “spin” or make “mis-statements” in your opinion. I see things differently.
You say- “But for your other complaints (global warming, sea levels) to hold water, you’ve gotta rely upon the old “Cape Wind will be nothing more than a drop in the bucket” rationale.”
No… I’m relying on the propaganda [and fear mongering] found on Cape Wind’s very own web page.
http://www.capewind.org/article37.htm
You say- “But for your other complaints (global warming, sea levels) to hold water, you’ve gotta rely upon the old “Cape Wind will be nothing more than a drop in the bucket” rationale.”
No… I’m relying on the propaganda [and fear mongering] found on Cape Wind’s very own web page.
http://www.capewind.org/article37.htm
Dave Kent [Member] writes:
Neil,
OK, I'll adjust my rhetoric to be more balanced.
What’s your beef with that Cape Wind piece? It sources all of its claims and data. Perhaps they’re cherry picking reports that fit their story. I don’t see anything wrong with this concluding statement:
--------
Cape Wind can help slow global warming
Unlike fossil fuel generated electricity, wind power produces no greenhouse gases. The electricity from the Cape Wind project will keep more than a million tons of greenhouse gases from being spewed into the air. In addition because wind power does not use cooling water, it does not introduce thermal pollution to rivers or the ocean as do most steam-powered electric generators.
---------------
I did a quick check of the “1 million tons” (per year I assume) number using current C02 emission numbers from ISO NE (about 1,000 lbs/MWh) and got about 750,000 tons. So, that may be a bit high.
Overall They’re right: CW will help. Of course, since it’s just a single plant that help is small in the big picture. But, the only way to attack pollution is one plant at a time.
OK, I'll adjust my rhetoric to be more balanced.
What’s your beef with that Cape Wind piece? It sources all of its claims and data. Perhaps they’re cherry picking reports that fit their story. I don’t see anything wrong with this concluding statement:
--------
Cape Wind can help slow global warming
Unlike fossil fuel generated electricity, wind power produces no greenhouse gases. The electricity from the Cape Wind project will keep more than a million tons of greenhouse gases from being spewed into the air. In addition because wind power does not use cooling water, it does not introduce thermal pollution to rivers or the ocean as do most steam-powered electric generators.
---------------
I did a quick check of the “1 million tons” (per year I assume) number using current C02 emission numbers from ISO NE (about 1,000 lbs/MWh) and got about 750,000 tons. So, that may be a bit high.
Overall They’re right: CW will help. Of course, since it’s just a single plant that help is small in the big picture. But, the only way to attack pollution is one plant at a time.
neil good [Member] writes:
Cape Wind will pollute Nantucket Sound.
Gotta go.
Gotta go.
Dave Kent [Member] writes:
Neil,
Cape Wind will reduce C02 emissions.
Cape Wind will reduce C02 emissions.
bittersweet [Member] writes:
"do we subsidize mountain top removal with lower electricity price demands?"
?????
?????
Buzz [Member] writes:
"Something's rotten in Denmark"
Not one conventional power plant has been closed in the period that Danish wind farms have been developed.
In fact, the Danish grid used 50% more coal-generated electricity in 2006 than in 2005 to cover wind’s failings. The quick ramping up and down of those plants has increased their pollution and carbon dioxide output – carbon emissions rose 36% in 2006.
Meanwhile Danish electricity costs are the highest in Europe. The Danish experience suggests wind energy is “expensive, inefficient and not even particularly green”, says Lodge.
Not one conventional power plant has been closed in the period that Danish wind farms have been developed.
In fact, the Danish grid used 50% more coal-generated electricity in 2006 than in 2005 to cover wind’s failings. The quick ramping up and down of those plants has increased their pollution and carbon dioxide output – carbon emissions rose 36% in 2006.
Meanwhile Danish electricity costs are the highest in Europe. The Danish experience suggests wind energy is “expensive, inefficient and not even particularly green”, says Lodge.
Dave Kent [Member] writes:
Buzz,
There's no question that Denmark has blown it (no pun intended). I think that made these mistakes:
- Started too early (in the 80s)
- Relied much too much on dictatorial government measures, as opposed to the market. These include:
- Incredible subsidies
- Guaranteeing the sale of all wind power
- Forcing above market prices for wind power
- Gone too far. Getting over 20% of its power from Wind, especially in a system designed in the 80s, is too much. Too much instability.
They've never turned off their fossil fuel plants even though Wind has passed the 20% level. So, they export power.
Yup, they're a mess.
But the U.S. isn't repeating any of those mistakes. While we should learn from the Danish experience it's dead wrong to assume that we're replicating it.
There's no question that Denmark has blown it (no pun intended). I think that made these mistakes:
- Started too early (in the 80s)
- Relied much too much on dictatorial government measures, as opposed to the market. These include:
- Incredible subsidies
- Guaranteeing the sale of all wind power
- Forcing above market prices for wind power
- Gone too far. Getting over 20% of its power from Wind, especially in a system designed in the 80s, is too much. Too much instability.
They've never turned off their fossil fuel plants even though Wind has passed the 20% level. So, they export power.
Yup, they're a mess.
But the U.S. isn't repeating any of those mistakes. While we should learn from the Danish experience it's dead wrong to assume that we're replicating it.
nofreewind [Member] writes:
The main reason Denmark failed is due to Physics. Wind power is unpredictable, and uncontrollable. The Danes tried very hard to work around this problem, but the laws of Physics cannot be changed. The only way to make use of wind power is to be ready to accept it when it comes. The high cost of the technology to accommodate the fickle wind is what has them stumped.
The idea that we can succeed where they have failed is part of the propaganda of the wind advocates who just a short time ago were pointing to Denmark as the prime example of wind’s success. We are not going to be any more successful than the Danes, and for a very good reason. The Laws of Physics cannot be changed.
The idea that we can succeed where they have failed is part of the propaganda of the wind advocates who just a short time ago were pointing to Denmark as the prime example of wind’s success. We are not going to be any more successful than the Danes, and for a very good reason. The Laws of Physics cannot be changed.
capemh [Member] writes:
Every one knows that without large government subsidies, the free site, and higher electric bills, Cape Wind would be economically unfeasible.
Nuff said.
Nuff said.
bobcat87 [Member] writes:
Cape Wind also needs:
a contract from National Grid, a manufacturer for their 3.6 mW turbines, contractors, and people willing to risk substantial investment cash. Oh, and there's lawsuits they'll have to win first,too. It's going to get very expensive.
a contract from National Grid, a manufacturer for their 3.6 mW turbines, contractors, and people willing to risk substantial investment cash. Oh, and there's lawsuits they'll have to win first,too. It's going to get very expensive.
Dave Kent [Member] writes:
bobcat,
Most of the items on your list involve separate “business reviews” by the private market. I'd add a construction bond and insurance to your list:
• Nobody will lend money to a project unless it has a workable business plan (it will make money).
• No utility (including National Grid) will pay exorbitant prices.
• No Surety will bond CW if it has a bad business plan or if its ownership (Gordon) is a bad risk.
• No insurer will offer affordable insurance if it’s too risky.
A failure in any one of those will kill the project. And believe me, none of those entities will do anything out of the goodness of its heart. If CW doesn’t cut the mustard, the answer will be “No”.
That’s one of the great but hidden things about this country’s reliance upon private companies in energy: Multiple, dispassionate business verdicts are built in. If CW is as crazy businesswise as people say it is, it won’t emerge from the business gauntlet. It’ll be DOA.
Most of the items on your list involve separate “business reviews” by the private market. I'd add a construction bond and insurance to your list:
• Nobody will lend money to a project unless it has a workable business plan (it will make money).
• No utility (including National Grid) will pay exorbitant prices.
• No Surety will bond CW if it has a bad business plan or if its ownership (Gordon) is a bad risk.
• No insurer will offer affordable insurance if it’s too risky.
A failure in any one of those will kill the project. And believe me, none of those entities will do anything out of the goodness of its heart. If CW doesn’t cut the mustard, the answer will be “No”.
That’s one of the great but hidden things about this country’s reliance upon private companies in energy: Multiple, dispassionate business verdicts are built in. If CW is as crazy businesswise as people say it is, it won’t emerge from the business gauntlet. It’ll be DOA.
nofreewind [Member] writes:
Exorbitant prices will result from the state mandate for renewable energy. The exorbitant prices, paid for by the taxpayer/ratepayer will make all things possible. Cape Wind will be constructed because the state mandates make it possible.
bobcat87 [Member] writes:
And Gordon will laugh all the way to the bank...why else would he lay 30 million on the line? This is a true fleecing of the Cape. As much as I love it, I'm glad I don't live there.
Dave Kent [Member] writes:
Unfortunately everyone, nofreewind doesn't ascribe to the fundamental economic law of Supply and Demand. The state laws that he damns over and over and over will, in fact, spur demand for renewable energy. This will top out at 25% of our electricity 20 years from now.
While this is significant, it isn't anything close to the apocalyptic matter that nofreewind describes.
No sound economic argument can dent NFW's jihad against renewable energy. So, please just know that nothing he says is grounded in solid economics. Please take his preaching with a very large grain of salt.
While this is significant, it isn't anything close to the apocalyptic matter that nofreewind describes.
No sound economic argument can dent NFW's jihad against renewable energy. So, please just know that nothing he says is grounded in solid economics. Please take his preaching with a very large grain of salt.
dolphin [Member] writes:
An open letter to Dave Kent. Do you receive any compensation or remuneration from Cape Cod Today?
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