Overcast 60°F Overcast [Forecast] :: Wednesday, October 15th, 2008
Vacation Info Wedding Info NEW! Kids & Parents

Renewable Energy Revolution

The Renewable Energy Revolution starts in your backyard
Please visit these local CapeCodToday sponsors:
Weddings on Cape Cod
Directory of more than 200 wedding professionals with contacts and cost information. (Dennis)
Rogers & Gray Insurance Agency
For more than 100 years, we have provided great customer service to our personal and commercial clients in all areas of insurance. Also providing Employee Benefits and Financial Services. (Dennis)

Valid criticism - from the opposition

Last week brought a letdown for Cape Wind supporters  after a string of victories and positive news -- word that Minerals Management Service is delaying release of its draft environmental impact report on the project for three to four months.

The inevitable question followed -- was the delay triggered by unseen Machiavellian maneuvering of Cape Wind opponents, or was it based on good-faith efforts by conscientious regulators? More likely the latter, and for good reason.

Back on March 19, the Cape Cod Commission held a public hearing on the project in Yarmouth. The first public official to speak, Mark Weissman, identified himself as a board member of the Massachusetts Marine Fisheries Commission.

As described in a March 22 letter to the editor of the Cape Cod Times written by Cape Wind spokesman Mark Rodgers, "Mr. Weissman stated that Cape Wind's final environmental impact report neglected to mention dredging Horseshoe Shoal, which Mr. Weissman incorrectly claimed would be needed to create access for a construction barge used in installing the wind turbines. Mr. Weissman went on to speculate about damage such dredging would cause.

"The reason Cape Wind's final environmental impact report makes no mention of dredging Horseshoe Shoal is that no dredging is needed for a construction barge to access the wind turbine locations," Rodgers further wrote, ending his letter by pointing out that when Weissman "introduced himself at this event as a public official, he neglected to also mention that he is a paid consultant to the Alliance to Protect Nantucket Sound."

My interest piqued by Weissman's failure to mention his connection to the Alliance, one that's been known for years by those following the wind farm saga, I called him about it (for the sake of full disclosure, I am a former paid media consultant to the pro-wind farm non-profit Clean Power Now and have written about the project as a proponent for two years).  Weissman acknowledged the omission and said he regretted it. "I should have mentioned that I did consulting for the Alliance, but I was not speaking on their behalf," he said. "I was a little flustered and pressed for time. I'm embarrassed by it."

After seeing Rodgers' letter in the Times, with its veiled suggestion of a conflict of interest, Weissman spoke with the chairman of the fisheries commission. "He doesn't see anything wrong," Weissman said. Weissman had contacted the state Ethics Commission about his consulting work for the Alliance a few years ago and was never informed he was in violation of the state ethics law.

Whether Cape Wind or Clean Power Now wishes to file a complaint with the state Ethics Commission alleging that Weissman cannot serve on the commission while working as an Alliance consultant is their perogative. Such action would probably be a waste of time, based on my understanding of the law. Weissman is an unpaid commission member, not a state employee, a critical distinction. Of greater interest to me is what Weissmann said at the hearing, which he described further when I called him. Weissman also sent me copies of the Alliance response to the FEIR (Final Environmental Impact Report) as it pertains to dredging, or, more accurately, how Cape Wind steers clear of it in the report.

Problem is, Cape Wind's own numbers in the FEIR provide amply reason for skepticism about its no-dredging assertion. The document states that "a minimum water depth of 12 feet (3.6 meters) MLLW (Mean Low Low Water) ... was established as a design criteria necessary to properly address construction techniques." Figure 2.2 in the FEIR (partially shown at right), a map depicting turbine locations and MLLW water depths around them, shows at least a dozen turbines in waters less than 12 feet deep at mean low low water (blogger's note: the red arrows  on the map were added by the Alliance to point out sites where turbines would be built in water less than 12 feet deep at MLLW; a second chart in the Alliance response to the FEIR cites four more such locations. MLLW, also known as Mean Lower Low Water, is the average of the two low water heights of each tidal day, according to the American Meteorological Society).

Again, this is based on Cape Wind's own filing with Minerals Management Service, not Alliance conjecture or spin. If Cape Wind says at least 12 feet of water is needed to build the turbines, and at least a dozen turbines would be constructed in water less than 12 feet deep at mean low low water, how can the work be done without dredging? The math and engineering here is not that complicated.

Two Cape Wind supporters I spoke with about this were both dismissive. I am of a different opinion -- whether dredging of Horseshoe Shoal is needed is hugely significant, and I suspect it's the main reason MMS extended its regulatory review. It's not just areas directly adjacent to the turbines that may need to be dredged -- the same may be true of water less than 12 feet deep for hundreds of feet in all directions around these specific turbines, to allow tugboats and huge construction barges room to maneuver.

Not only that, but ask yourself this -- if you are navigating across Horseshoe Shoal in a boat that draws more than 12 feet, and using a navigational chart more than few years old, how confident are you in the depths cited on the chart? Enough to risk running aground and spending the night on a chilly sandbar, along with your perturbed passengers?

Maps of shoals are like computer manuals -- it doesn't take long for rapid change to render them obsolete. Cape Wind wants to build its turbines in one of the most ecologically dynamic settings on the East Coast, a shoal that's continally buffeted by currents, wind and waves. The depths around the turbines cited in the FEIR are almost certainly different now than when they were determined, if only marginally. They will have changed that much more by the time construction could begin in 18 months to two years at the earlier, after factoring in the new delay and inevitable litigation to follow MMS's eventual decision.

Not only is Horseshoe Shoal a topographically fluid locale, it is likely to become only more so due to a major reason cited by Cape Wind supporters for the wind farm -- global warming, with its ominous threat of more destructive storms and their immense power to reshape coastlines and shoals.

Remember the old parking lot at Coast Guard Beach in Eastham? Destroyed by the Blizzard of '78, along with the setting for author Henry Beston's  "The Outermost House." More recent storms have carved openings in barrier beaches around the Cape.  If global warming is as bad as we keep hearing, it won't take long for Horseshoe Shoal to bear little resemblance to its current dimensions.

But after spending roughly $30 million before generating a single kilowatt-hour, why would Cape Wind risk jeopardizing the project with a questionable omission in its documentation to MMS? I can only conclude the omission is not accidental. If the amount of dredging needed is even half as much as critics like Weissman allege, it would still involve an immense amount of material removed from the seabed. Material that has to be dredged from Horseshoe Shoal -- and placed elsewhere. The eyes glaze at the thought of the additional red tape involved. By not addressing this in the FEIR, Cape Wind may have crossed its fingers and hoped for the best. Who knows, maybe it'll pass muster. Then again, maybe not.

Cape Wind has dodged more than its share of bullets -- lawsuits, well-funded lobbying in Washington, overheated rhetoric about avian carnage and navigational mayhem. But when it comes to dredging, that string of good fortune may come to an end. This issue, and proponents' dismissal of its importance, is an Achilles heel that Cape Wind ignores at its peril.

197 comments
Blog posts and comments are entirely the thoughts and ideas of the people who write them and in no way represent the views of CapeCodToday.com, eCape, Inc., or its employees or owners.

04/10/07 @ 7:01 pm
neil good [Member] writes:
Jack, you do deserve credit for giving this your attention, and doing it in an evenhanded way.

Cape Wind wants to locate turbine D-0 less than 4000 feet- and turbine C-2 less than 2000 feet- from the shallowest part of H. Shoal, or where charts show the shoal is only about 6 inches deep at mean low water. B-2, D-1, and D-2 are in the same general vicinity. If dredging is necessary that is where it will be done.

Cape Wind might say “…not a problem, we have it all figured out.” They might even say “…dredging is not needed," but here is another issue to consider. By an odd quirk of nature the deepest part of N. Sound- 93 feet deep- is just about 4000 feet from this “shallowest” spot on the shoal, and not much farther from the nearest turbine- B-2. Picture an extreme drop-off, or underwater cliff, at the edge of the shoal in that area.

Would it be a good idea to hammer 18-foot dia. steel monopoles, 80 feet deep or more, into the bottom so near the deepest part of N. Sound- and so near the shallowest part? I don't think so.
04/10/07 @ 7:47 pm
Jack Coleman [Member] writes:
thanks, capri and Neil, greatly appreciated. Neil, in response to your question, no, I don't think that would be a good idea and wouldn't be surprised if MMS eventually cites that as one of their concerns.

The person who was way ahead of the curve on this was Capt. Jack Riley, aka Maverick. I remember dismissing his skepticism about it based on assurances from Cape Wind. I'll believe dredging won't be necessary if and when the project is built, and not accompanied by dredging. Short of that, I'll remain skeptical.
04/11/07 @ 12:15 pm
barbaradurkin [Member] writes:
Conservation Law Foundation, Cape and Island’s Self-Reliance, Clean Power Now, Clean Water Action, Earth Policy Institute, Environment Massachusetts, Environmental League of Massachusetts, Greenpeace, Healthlink, MA Climate Action Network, Mass Energy, George M. Woodwell

To Secretary Ian Bowles EOEA March 22, 2007:

“We appreciate that the FEIR addresses the water quality impacts of the project, including impacts from the proposed jet plow method of embedding the submarine cables, as requested. Further, the project proponent has responded favorably to the Secretary’s request (in the DEIR Certificate) to backfill the area this is excavated at the transition point between the submarine cable and the Horizontal Direct Drilling (HDD) cable, so as to nearly replicate the sediment transport attributes of the area as they are prior to dredging.”

Everyone except for Mark Rodgers seems to know that dredging would be necessary.

130 miles of cable @ 25% shallow water, would translate to 32 miles of dredging.
04/11/07 @ 12:18 pm
barbaradurkin [Member] writes:
Thank you, Jack Coleman, for your balanced coverage of this issue.
04/11/07 @ 9:09 pm
Jack Coleman [Member] writes:
You're welcome, Barbara. I thought it was something that needed to be said. Apparently I've left other Cape Wind supporters speechless.
04/11/07 @ 9:48 pm
Monponsett [Member] writes:
You know that I'm not really caring either way... but it is fun to watch the power plays at work. High stakes, heavy spending, celebrity input, local color... it's a helluva story. I can't wait to how it ends.

There probably is a good book in it... if I were a wruter as well-versed in the battle as, say, Jack... I'd give some thought to how nice life would be if I could crank a best seller out of this whole mess.

Offhand... and especially where he's obviously looking at both sides of the issue now... is there anyone walking God's green earth better equipped to write the definitive wind farm story than our own JC?

No joke... give it some thought. I'll buy one, so you'll at least make THAT much.
04/12/07 @ 12:12 am
lmc035@gmail.com [Member] writes:
I guess Barbara forgot about the NSAR $50 Million dollar cable run to Nantucket which required 'dredging' similar to that required for Cape Wind.

How about the 200sq miles, 15 feet down, required to bring LNG tankers into fall river as perspective?
04/12/07 @ 12:45 am
neil good [Member] writes:
But Moses, the cable to Nantucket is 'required', and Cape Wind is not required at all.
04/12/07 @ 7:12 am
barbaradurkin [Member] writes:
Moses:

Some will never forget the 26 mile cable run from Nantucket to Cape Cod.

"We were laying 26 miles of power cable from Nantucket to Cape Cod. The forecast was for winds to 40. it blew 96 Knots...a hurricane! I took this photo from my tug, The Manatee. The bow of the barge broke, the spud pocket cracked and the office space was taking on water. Many souls hung in the balance."

Chuck Gallup Owner/Operator
Gallup's Concrete Pumping
04/12/07 @ 8:37 am
Jack Coleman [Member] writes:
Wow, Mopo, you made my day, and given me something to think about. Not the first time you've done both.

In response to lmco35 - correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't Hess, the applicant for the LNG facility in Fall River, saying that dredging will be necessary for that project? Cape Wind is saying dredging won't be necessary.
04/12/07 @ 8:44 am
neil good [Member] writes:
Cape Wind is not necessary

[Jack, I'd buy your book. WW's, never]
04/12/07 @ 9:51 am
CCToday [Member] writes:
Cape Cod TODAY regrets to inform our readers that Jack Coleman failed to contact the developer for their response before publishing this post.

Cape Wind categorically denies that any dredging will take place in constructing the wind farm.

They state that having reduced the proposed footprint from 170 to 130 turbines two years ago they have amble space to rearrange the placement should any specific sites prove difficult and that there is 12 feet of high water around each proposed turbine site.

More importantly, any dredging would require many additional permits which would be nearly impossible to acquire according to the developer.
04/12/07 @ 10:44 am
Jack Coleman [Member] writes:
Cape Cod Today has apparently forgotten that this is analysis posted on a blog, not straight-forward reporting. There is nothing keeping Cape Wind from responding - in their own words, unfiltered by me or anyone else - in comments that can be posted here.

In its previous comment, Cape Cod Today claims there is "12 feet of high water around each proposed turbine site." Operative words - "high water." Due to a well-documented phenomenon known as tides, there will also be "low water" around each turbine site.

According to Cape Wind's own FEIR, at least a dozen turbines would be situated in water less than 12 feet deep at mean low low water, and the maximum draft of the vessels they'd use for construction would be 12 feet.

The previous comment is also undermined by the assertion that shrinking the footprint from 170 to 130 turbines would provide "ample" space to rearrange the turbine array. It had exactly the opposite effect - Cape Wind was left with less room to work with, 24 square miles specifically, as opposed to the earlier 28 square miles.
04/12/07 @ 11:35 am
bobcat87 [Member] writes:
Jack,
I have to say I was a bit surprised to see the comments closed by CC Today and I am happy that you were able to have this thread/comment section re-opened -- it's your blog and I think you should be able to comment on the issue, which you have always done responsibly and respectfully. Your blog adds alot to the Cape Cod Today offerings and the wind energy debate as a whole.
04/12/07 @ 12:09 pm
Jack Coleman [Member] writes:
thank you bobcat87 and capri, I appreciate your comments. As far as this being my blog, I'm not the only person who posts to it - I'm referring specifically to Renewable Energy Revolution - and it is a collaborative effort. Beyond that, any and all blogs here are owned, if you will, by the publisher, who foots the bill in providing them to the public, as do publishers of other media.

Ending the comment thread seemed an odd way to respond to Cape Wind not getting a chance to respond, seeing how Cape Wind hasn't responded to what I wrote.
04/12/07 @ 1:00 pm
barbaradurkin [Member] writes:
"The reason Cape Wind's final environmental impact report makes no mention of dredging Horseshoe Shoal is that no dredging is needed for a construction barge to access the wind turbine locations," Rodgers further wrote." Cape Cod Times 3/22

Cape Wind's FEIR, logic, and the Conservation Law Foundation, etc., suggest otherwise.

Great question, Jack:

"But after spending roughly $30 million before generating a single kilowatt-hour, why would Cape Wind risk jeopardizing the project with a questionable omission in its documentation to MMS?"

Cape Cod Today editor responds:

"...any dredging would require many additional permits which would be nearly impossible to acquire according to the developer."

Is Cape Wind trying to circumvent "Compliance with Sections 401 and 402 of the Clean Water Act?

...referred to as an “IMPORTANT LAYER OF PROTECTIVE REVIEW” in the context of Cape Wind, by Conservation Law foundation BRIEF OF AMICUS CURIAE of 1/03.
04/12/07 @ 1:26 pm
Carl B. Freeman [Member] writes:
Hmmm, Cape wind's record on factual statements, around 100%. The Alliance...close to zero. When CW says it won't be a problem, forgive me for believing them & not SOS.

If massive dredging would be needed, Cape Wind may have to do without those 12 turbines.

Maybe they are counting on ocean level rise from global warming so it won't be an issue.

I believe that the exact locations are not set in stone, and there is latitude to nudge locations to avoid dredging within the defined borders.

I believe massive dredging is an environmental mistake, but not nearly the mistake that constant fish dragging of the area is. This is one of those glaring points the Alliance seems mute even w/their concern for the environment... or should I say they have concern for any environmental issue they can misrepresent into ammo against Cape Wind.

You don't want to alienate you fishing allies, even if thier dragging causes more damage than a WF ever would. Glad I'm not in the same ethical bind.
04/12/07 @ 1:48 pm
Jack Coleman [Member] writes:
It's refreshing to see at least one other Cape Wind advocate point out that dredging may be needed - thank you, Carl.

But as for saying that "if massive dredging would be needed, Cape Wind may have to do without those 12 turbines," this puts Cape Wind in another potential bind - whether the project is economically viable with fewer than 130 turbines. Proponents like me were adamant about this last spring when Rep. Don Young of Alaska tried to impose a 1.5-mile buffer zone between offshore turbines and shipping lanes. Had the proposal become law, it would have prevented Cape Wind from building some of its turbines, but not most of them.

I specifically asked Jim Gordon if there was a "drop dead" number of turbines he could not go under, and he said yes - 130.
04/12/07 @ 1:59 pm
Shecky [Member] writes:
A fool and my money are soon parted.

"The reason Cape Wind's final environmental impact report makes no mention of dredging Horseshoe Shoal is that no dredging is needed for a construction barge to access the wind turbine locations," Mark Rodgers wrote." Cape Cod Times 3/22/07

If the opponents what to challenge that statement prior to permitting or construction or even once it has begun, they have a ball & go for it, and they will only further discredit & embarrass themselve...once again!
04/12/07 @ 2:19 pm
bobcat87 [Member] writes:
Thanks Jack for pointing out my misunderstanding about this blog -- my error. It is indeed a collaboration, which I didn't realize. In any event, it provides us all with a forum to voice our opinions and concerns, and as a way of keeping up with the latest information regarding the Cape Wind debate. I consider CCToday an excellent source of info about Cape Cod in general and appreciate their commitment to providing this site for all of us.
04/12/07 @ 3:21 pm
barbaradurkin [Member] writes:
Cape Wind has come half-way down the mountain to discuss the perils of permitting with Cape Cod Today editor regarding dredging as the editor's comments here suggest.

Cape Cod Today represents the position of Cape Wind on dredging in their 9:51 AM comment this morning:

"Cape Wind categorically denies that any dredging will take place in constructing the wind farm."

Jack Coleman has extended invitation to Jim Gordon to respond to this Post subtitle, 'Cape Wind, to dredge or not to dredge?'

Will Jim Gordon come down from the mountain to back up Cape Cod Today's represention of Cape Wind's assertion, no dredging is required, and respond to Jack's invitation?

May we know if so why Conservation Law Foundation, Cape and Island’s Self-Reliance, Clean Power Now, Clean Water Action, Earth Policy Institute, Environment Massachusetts, Environmental League of Massachusetts, Greenpeace, Healthlink, MA Climate Action Network, Mass Energy, George M. Woodwell expect dredging would be required?
04/12/07 @ 4:10 pm
maverick [Member] writes:
From the newsroom (registered user) writes:

A fool and my money are soon parted.

If the opponents what to challenge that statement prior to permitting or construction or even once it has begun, they have a ball & go for it, and they will only further discredit & embarrass themselve...once again!

I commented to MMS months ago during the comment period that the need for dredging had not been addressed. In reading other comments to the MMS most were about global warming, renewable energy and savings on their electric bill.

To date Dona, Barbara and Neil have provided expert scientific evidence that this project will have little to no effect on global warming or electric bills.

I am putting my money where my mouth is. I will wager whatever you desire that if this project is approved massive dredging will occur before it is over.
04/12/07 @ 4:56 pm
maverick [Member] writes:
Dona...most folks spend their lives on the mainland and are suffering along with you and me. High gas prices, electric bills and the supposed threat of global warming.

Unfortunately, most don't even know where Horseshoe Shoal is located or could care less. I understand that. But Cape residents should understand that all life is interconnected and the destruction of Nantucket Sound will have far more ramifications for them than global warming, electric bills, etc.

The dredging that will be required will create an environmental nightmare from Woods Hole to P-Town and beyond. All to hopefully save a few cents on an electric bill.

What has happened to American values? Down the tube along with Nantucket Sound.

Sad, very sad.
04/12/07 @ 5:20 pm
Monponsett [Member] writes:
Dude... write the book. You can't lose with the story.

It's Green. It's Power Politics. It's Rich vs Richer. It's Geopolitical. It crosses borders- you can picture both a hippy and a CEO having an interest in reading it. It even has a Kennedy.

It's a gold mine.

If you start now... you can drop it on the market at some critical time.. Kennedy retiring, an Iran war, the CW ribbon-cutting, etc...


Now...seeing as I sketched out the basics, I deserve the prologue.

I'm thinking Ultraviolence... some doomed Marine stalking down a Basra street amidst the full horrors of war, spilling his blood to support our inane energy policy. I'll make it singe, trust me.
04/12/07 @ 5:42 pm
Carl B. Freeman [Member] writes:
Capri "..pointing to draggers, which has nothing to do with the issue, is an attempt to deflect, as always."

FACT: dragging is the only fishing the WF would limit. Didn't SOS bring the draggers into the issue?

I know facts outside of SOS's well worn 'story' don't register w/you. This is not defection, I merely point out the marriages of convenience SOS uses.

Cape Wind has been dead on with it's information to organizations that actually check their facts.

Again, if large scale dredging is needed, I don't believe CW should or will build those turbines in question. I say this because I don't believe in wholesale disruption of Nantucket sound, like dragging, or the thousands of boats dumping their diesel & oil in the water (solution: biodiesel, sail boat)

1 of every 10,000 human caused bird deaths is from turbines(mostly older, poorly sited turbines), undeterred by facts you continue to tilt at turbines believing they are the problem.

All we are saying, is give wind a chance!
04/12/07 @ 7:47 pm
maverick [Member] writes:
Carl B...
"All we are saying, is give wind a chance!"

At the expense of Nantucket Sound?

Not a chance. Sorry.
04/12/07 @ 7:56 pm
Jack Coleman [Member] writes:
Tell you what, Mopo, if I ever do what you suggest, I'd be a fool not to have you write the prologue. Which pretty much ensures that it won't happen.

In response to From the Newsroom - do you routinely accept as gospel all assertions from developers?

Not sure, capri, whether Cape Wind will respond. But after complaining that I deprived them of the opportunity, it seems more than odd for the company not to respond now that the opportunity is before them.

Maverick, I like your idea about a wager, but I wouldn't bet even money either way on this one. With your idea in mind, however, I extend this offer of a wager to any and all Cape Wind supporters. Seeing how it is apparently beyond the realm of possibility that dredging will be needed for this project, how about a wager of one dollar with odds of, say, 1,000 to 1? If I lose, I will gladly pay $1 to any and all people willing to accept this wager. And if they lose, they each pay me $1,000.

Any takers?
04/12/07 @ 10:16 pm
Carl B. Freeman [Member] writes:
maverick, you got one little flaw in your theory of harm to the sound.

It is the ultimate insult to the facts before us to even insinuate that WF construction (Barring massive dredging.) would ever do a fraction of the damage dragging does. You're a sports fisherman right? You know this right? Most fishermen with a clue do know this.

If you are still thinking IN ALL HONESTY that the WF will damage the sound, your senses have left you. If you persist I'll have to call you a liar yet again.

Once again, the straight poop, monopile driving, insignificantly harmful to life in the sound. Continued dragging VERY BAD for life in the sound.

You'll stand by & watch your buddy drag the bottom barren, but oh my god, a wind farm to increase fish stocks? Over my dead body. Oh yeah, it displaces mercury from the waters near where you fish, how dare they. Warnings of shallows, what's this crap.
How did your moral compass get so busted?
04/12/07 @ 10:42 pm
barbaradurkin [Member] writes:
Maverick;

The best information source available on the characteristics of Nantucket Sound is the user of Nantucket Sound. You say that dredging would be required based on your daily, real-time observations traversing Nantucket Sound, and you’re a qualified source in my book.

The Conservation Law Foundation, and a host of others consider dredging will be required as well. Barbara Hill of CPN signed a letter to the effect that dredging would be required that was written and submitted by Conservation Law Foundation to Ian Bowles, state Secretary, the excerpt is in my 12;15 PM comment.

Jim Gordon hasn't responded on the dredging issue despite Jack invitations.

CPN and Conservation Law are in conflict with Cape Wind on an issue that could place Cape Wind in an impossible position, requiring addition permits, “nearly impossible to acquire according to the developer.”

What say you, Barbara Hill?

You’ve signed the letter that presumes dredging that Cape Wind states will not be required.
04/12/07 @ 11:22 pm
Jack Coleman [Member] writes:
In fairness to CCToday's comment about Cape Wind's reduced footprint providing ample room to rearrange the turbine array, the reason for this is that the number of turbines shrank by a greater percentage - 170 to 130, 23.5 percent less - than did the footprint, 28 square miles to 24 - 14.3 percent smaller.

The map that accompanies this blog post, however, shows proposed locations for turbines in both the initial and altered configurations. The map initially came from the FEIR submitted by Cape Wind, with arrows added by the Alliance in its response to the FEIR. The arrows point specifically to turbines in the new configuration in depths less than 12 feet at mean low low water - better known as low tide.
04/13/07 @ 7:58 am
maverick [Member] writes:
Carl B...just to set the record straight. I am not a dragger, agree that it has done damage to the marine ecosystem and have stated such on many occasions. Your comments would be better directed to Dr. Bill Hogarth the head of the National Marine Fisheries Service.

This debate is about the environmental destruction that would occur from Cape Wind. You are using the same logic as Moses C. and it is a devious distraction from the real issue. Will dredging and how much be required.

Also, I hope that you have the opportunity to call me a liar to my face some day.
04/13/07 @ 8:07 am
Shecky [Member] writes:
Why don't the harpies want to take "NO" for an answer?
Is it because they have no facts and must resort over and over again to "the BIG LIE"?
"The reason Cape Wind's final environmental impact report makes no mention of dredging Horseshoe Shoal is that no dredging is needed for a construction barge to access the wind turbine locations," Mark Rodgers wrote." Cape Cod Times 3/22/07

If the opponents what to challenge that statement prior to permitting or construction or even once it has begun, they have a ball & go for it, and they will only further discredit & embarrass themselve...once again!
04/13/07 @ 8:15 am
Nantucket Ghost [Member] writes:
I really think Coleman has jumped ship… "Money talks & talking walks.”
04/13/07 @ 9:12 am
lmc035@gmail.com [Member] writes:
When you boil this issue down to the basics, the folks most opposed to the project are the ones responsible for the most harm to the environment.

Bill Koch is bankrolling the project and is a well-known oil tycoon. Marinas are poor stewards of the environment and Hyannis Marina was one of the plank-holders of SOS/Alliance. A perfect example is the fishing fleet of draggers/trawlers who Barbara and SOS/Alliance like to promote as our 'heritage trade.'

Another example is the steamship authority who spouts bogus navigation safety issues while their vessels are not equipped with inexpensive transponders which would allow them to obtain valuable information about the commercial vessels (or lack thereof) in their area.
04/13/07 @ 9:16 am
lmc035@gmail.com [Member] writes:
Capri - Slandering the entire shipping industry just because someone supports wind farms is ignorant.
04/13/07 @ 9:31 am
Jack Coleman [Member] writes:
"Jumped ship," Nantucket Ghost? No longer "in the can" is more like it. Any relation to Stephen Peckham, by the way? Your voice sounds so familiar.

How puzzling that you and your like-minded cohorts are not taking me up on that wager. Money talks, indeed.
04/13/07 @ 9:41 am
lmc035@gmail.com [Member] writes:
If folks are going to oppose the wind farm for environmental reasons, they need to stand up to the scrutiny of their reasons for opposition and their current practices in relation to the environment.
04/13/07 @ 9:48 am
Jack Coleman [Member] writes:
... and this answers the question of whether dredging will be needed ... how?
04/13/07 @ 10:05 am
lmc035@gmail.com [Member] writes:
SOS/Alliance has all the wrong backers to mount a successful attach on the wind farm. They are just plain wrong on most/all counts.
04/13/07 @ 10:12 am
Jack Coleman [Member] writes:
This blog post wasn't written by the Alliance, lmco35, it was written by a wind farm supporter. If I'm plain wrong on this, why not accept the wager?
04/13/07 @ 10:15 am
neil good [Member] writes:
Here is another issue you might like to take on Moses. Cape Wind makes this bold claim in bold text, on their web page;

“Cape Wind can help slow global warming.”

Yet last June during the movie theater debate in Dennis, Mark Rogers said, "I agree with Charles [Vinick], Cape Wind will have no affect on global warming".

So what/who should the public believe? - the web page statement, or CW’s Communications Director?

I believe Mark Rodgers. The CW web page statement comes across as pure propaganda, targeted towards simpletons.
04/13/07 @ 10:17 am
lmc035@gmail.com [Member] writes:
Fine by me.
04/13/07 @ 10:22 am
Jack Coleman [Member] writes:
fine by me as in, if dredging is not needed, I pay you $1, and if it is needed, you pay me $1,000? Just so we're clear.
04/13/07 @ 10:28 am
lmc035@gmail.com [Member] writes:
Dude - I'm not made of cash! I'll give you $5!
04/13/07 @ 10:34 am
Jack Coleman [Member] writes:
Dude - that's not the wager! It comes with odds, seeing how dredging is something that apparently absolutely is not going to happen. But if it's one of those solid apparent absolutes, why hesitate to make a wager with long odds, as in 1,000-to-1? Unless - could it be? - you doubt these repeated assertions that dredging won't be necessary, made without without a scintilla of evidence to back them up ...?
04/13/07 @ 10:43 am
Carl B. Freeman [Member] writes:
Mr. Maverick, Do you still assert a WF is the destruction of Nantucket sound?

I commend you on your calm, measured response to my anger. I let my anger get the best of me because I am so fed up with assumptions that a WF is the destruction of Nantucket sound.

If you truly believe this, you are not a liar, you merely are ignoring the fact that existing windfarms in the world are not damaging the shallows they reside in, in fact WF's displace pollution, helping the local environment. What prevents you from seeing this? Which WF is destroying its waters? What proof do you have that is based in fact or real life example. I eagerly await a WF to prevent the damage being done by draggers.

Please, speak to less mercury, 130 new reefs, moorings in an emergency, warnings of shallows, less oil tankers traveling through the sound, lower local electric prices.

I apologize for saying "liar"in my rage. Will you debate me rationally on real benefits?

P.S. I never said you're a dragger.
04/13/07 @ 10:44 am
Nantucket Ghost [Member] writes:
Wrong guess - "Money talks & talking walks.” You're wrong on this and too pig-headed to admit it. If CW engineers thought any dredging were necessary, they would have to start the permitting process for dredging BEFORE the project was started or waiting for those additional approvals would prolong their project and it's cost.
04/13/07 @ 10:44 am
lmc035@gmail.com [Member] writes:
This whole dredge issue is a joke! Are you kidding me? Real dredging (i.e. Providence River) to allow real marine traffic to pass is on a scale exponentially above the wind farm 'dredging'. Dredging for a wind farm would be like dredging a marina, in my view.

Think about it. The goal is to set up pilings to support a tower, not deepen a channel to increase the available depth of water.
04/13/07 @ 10:48 am
lmc035@gmail.com [Member] writes:
Carl -- good points. FYI - very few if any tankers transit nantucket sound.
04/13/07 @ 10:49 am
Sacreblu [Member] writes:
Coleman was asserting that dredgeing was necessary for "some" turbine locations.
His error was in not contacting the developer before making that charge.
He gave support to the anti-wind farm zealots which could slow the project. Shame on you, JC.
04/13/07 @ 10:50 am
News-Hen [Member] writes:
Hey Jack, what's wrong with 5-to-1 odds?
Sounds like you don't want to take Imco35's bet.
04/13/07 @ 10:55 am
barbaradurkin [Member] writes:
Imco35;

Cape Wind is a bad idea proposed for the worst possible location. I'm just trying to help you to cut to the chase as you're suggesting, again, that ulterior motive exists when citizens vocally object to Cape Wind. Perhaps obfuscation is your goal as you’re off topic and finger pointing.

I'm a witness to Jack Coleman's challenge to you to accept that wager, Imco35.

Are you prepared to put your money on the table in stating that Cape Wind will not require dredging? See Jack.

Speculating on Jack's motivation...Jack likely thinks that Cape Wind should be approved if a fair and comprehensive evaluation of the project demonstrates merits outweigh risks associated.

Jack Coleman hasn't crossed the isle. He's circumspect and intelligent and advocating for compliance and observance of the laws that provide good guidance in the decision making process. I think Jack understands that any short cuts taken by Cape Wind may result in a bad decision, under a flawed project evaluation, my guess.
04/13/07 @ 11:08 am
maverick [Member] writes:
lmc035@gmail.com writes:...This whole dredge issue is a joke! Are you kidding me? Real dredging (i.e. Providence River) to allow real marine traffic to pass is on a scale exponentially above the wind farm 'dredging'. Dredging for a wind farm would be like dredging a marina, in my view.

Imco...I have never observed a 24 sq. mile marina. Have you?

Comparing the Prov. River with Nantucket Sound is the biggest joke. The section being dredged has been the repository for R.I.'s industrial and human waste for the last century.. It is polluted and finally being cleaned up through the efforts of Save The Bay.

All we want to know is "will dredging be required". If the people spearheading the project can't agree on something this important it strikes at the heart of their credibility.
04/13/07 @ 11:11 am
Carl B. Freeman [Member] writes:
Good point lmc035@gmail, correction; It will reduce tankers around cape waters.

I commend Jack on presenting the dredging point. This Windfarm has to pass muster on all counts to go forward.

The process has shown so far that the mostly baseless claims of SOS have fallen on deaf ears, due to a lack of credibility.

If massive dredging is needed, I cannot see that happening. I also believe there are ways around possible problems and CW would not invest the millions it has so far, and overlook this detail.

Again, I see CW's statements over 6 yrs have checked out with state & local agencies THAT CHECK FACTS. Put me down as someone who believes the statement "no dredging will be needed", & has disdain for anyone touting the non-argument 'Jim Gordon has not personally said that'.

Imagine the MMS saying "This wind farm proposal would go through, except Jim Gordon did not personally repeat a previously made official statement."

Happy Friday the 13th, my lucky day!
04/13/07 @ 11:14 am
lmc035@gmail.com [Member] writes:
Maverick - draggers/trawlers churn up thousands of square miles of the seafloor and I don't see SOS/Alliance doing anything other than partnering with them.

The wind farm will not require substantial (if any) dredging. It is like being concerned about WF oil spills, meanwhile oil goes into the sound regugarly from outboard engine discharge.
04/13/07 @ 11:19 am
lmc035@gmail.com [Member] writes:
Maverick - how can you justify the 'sport fishing' industry when scientists expect a total collapse in world fishing stocks by 2050?

What is sporty about using charter planes to catch tuna? What's sporty about baiting hooks for clients who clearly have no business on the water?

It's not like these folks survive on the fish they catch. Why should I be concerned about a wind farm causing your line of business to be altered in some small way?
04/13/07 @ 11:21 am
lmc035@gmail.com [Member] writes:
Maverick - how can the main backers of SOS/Alliance justify their arguments when they are in the same 'boat' as you are?
04/13/07 @ 11:47 am
Jack Coleman [Member] writes:
Ringo, if this is such a sure thing, why the problem with 1,000-to-1 odds? As I understand these things, a desire for lower odds is based on uncertainty. Surely you aren't entertaining the possibility of doubt ...?

Carl, I can't tell you how much I appreciate your comments. You know me well enough to know where this is coming from. If dredging isn't needed, great! One less obstacle toward getting this project built. But if it is needed, those who are strenuously denying it here, and Cape Wind, will look more than a little ridiculous.

Sometimes it takes a discussion just like the one we're engaged in to peel through the onion.
04/13/07 @ 11:48 am
Carl B. Freeman [Member] writes:
Maverick, congratulations on SOS maneuver 3a. Take current talking point (the discussion is about 12 turbines locations in question) Blow it out of all proportion (I have never observed a 24 sq. mile marina. Have you?) and let the accusations begin.

How does the possibility of dredging near 12 turbines turn into dredging 24 sq miles?

Please explain.

I understand maneuver 3a does give you nearly endless talking points, just none in the real world.

Q: Why do SOS'ers continue down irrefutably disproven lines of reasoning over & over again?

A: They don't have any facts to back up their statements.

Is the issue about dredging 24 sq miles of horseshoe shoals? YES or NO?
04/13/07 @ 11:52 am
Jack Coleman [Member] writes:
A good point, Carl. To suggest that Cape Wind may need to dredge 24 square miles, when it may not need to dredge any, is a huge exaggeration.

Sammy, take the time to read what I wrote in the blog post before responding. Nowhere did I state that "dredging was necessary." Shame on you for claiming I wrote something I didn't. Care to make a wager on this, incidentally?
04/13/07 @ 11:55 am
lmc035@gmail.com [Member] writes:
How about all the Cape Cod & Islands dredging projects that go on regularly to support yachting/boating? How much BS is that? Let's not have a wind farm but full speed ahead on marina dredging...
04/13/07 @ 12:05 pm
barbaradurkin [Member] writes:
Imco35;

The subject you're avoiding is the topic of this Post, dredging. Cape Wind, according to Cape Cod Today, should have opportunity to respond, but they have not done so when the opportunity has been provided. Jack's Post responds to Cape Wind's published statements. The silence is very telling coming from Cape Wind and CPN quarters right now.

Barbara Hill, who signed a letter that incorporated dredging in language by Conservation Law Foundation to Ian Bowles on the FEIR, is conspicuously absent as are other team Cape Wind members.

We have contradictory positions and statements flowing on this critical issue.

Back to Jack's offer, Imco35, do you wish to accept his terms in stating Cape Wind will not require dredging?

We have conflicting information about dredging from CLF that includes this action in their comments to the state on the FEIR—Cape Wind is contradicted.

Red flag #642
04/13/07 @ 12:07 pm
Jack Coleman [Member] writes:
Time for me to break from the discussion, my daughter just came home from school. Maybe when I return, someone - anyone - will have taken me up on that wager. Usually you don't see such hesitation when it comes to a sure thing.
04/13/07 @ 12:56 pm
barbaradurkin [Member] writes:
Jack,

I think that you've separated the men from the boys, and the women from the girls.

The boys and girls don't seem to wish to take you up on your wager offer.

All are quick to say that Cape Wind won't require dredging, but hesitant to put their money at risk, and back up their claims.

I think it's a safe bet that dredging will occur, and that would put Cape Wind in a vulnerable position without required permits.

Red flag #643
04/13/07 @ 1:05 pm
maverick [Member] writes:
Imco35 and Carl B...is this a game of "who asks the most questions wins".

I asked one simple question over a year ago "what is the draft of the construction barges and will dredging be required?"

To this day I have not received or read anywhere the true answer to that simple request.

If you would like answers to your fishing questions I would be happy to provide them as long as CCT allows me to go off topic.
04/13/07 @ 1:30 pm
Shecky [Member] writes:
Dona Tracy writes:
“There will be at least two types of dredging (and possible blasting) in the Nantucket Sound by the Cape Wind project. The one at issue here is dredging huge channels for the construction boats. The other is dredging the entire area for electrical cables.” 04/13/07 @ 12:09 pm

Dona, please inform us readers of your valued source for this definitive information. You seem quite convinced. In order to take you seriously you really should share the validity in order to document your assertions - Don’t you think? (Or, is the answer a foregone conclusion?)
Have never ever heard of “dredging” in order to lay under-sea cables. Is this a new method that we should be concerned about? I was wondering now: Why didn’t they use your method when they laid the cables to Nantucket recently? It seems you know way more than CW’s engineers about how this project will advance. Tell us more please. Maybe they will hire you as a consultant to share your methodologies.
Or are you just a bag of wind as usual.
04/13/07 @ 1:32 pm
News-Hen [Member] writes:
Fellas and gals, haven't you figured out that these anti-wind vigilantes (Dona, Durkin & Good) have no "facts", only the BIG LIE repeated over and over ahgain.
CW is blessed to have such idiotic and phony opponents.
04/13/07 @ 1:33 pm
bobcat87 [Member] writes:
The dredging that is necessary to maintain harbors and local waterways is COMPLETELY different than that which might (and probably would be) necessary to allow the potential installation of wind turbines in less than 12 feet of water. Marina dredging is regulated by state and local authorities, I am sure, and are to the benefit of everyone who boats in those waters. Dredging in these areas, if I am not mistaken, is essential to the health of areas like Waquoit Bay, Tashmoo Pond, and the like. It allows the necessary exchange of water, nutrients, and wildlife between the many bays and saltwater ponds that dot the coastline and the open ocean. That being said, dredging in the open waters of Nantucket Sound is unnecessary and damaging (unless you're Jim Gordon). Nantucket Sound belongs to everyone, not to Jim Gordon to do with as he pleases. Who would be responsible for monitoring the dredging? Who would pay for the many man hours that would be necessary in order to objectively oversee the process? Would marine charts need to be re-surveyed and re-written, published?
04/13/07 @ 1:51 pm
lmc035@gmail.com [Member] writes:
Again - let's weigh the needs of boaters against the need for electricity...

Let's weigh the needs of disturbing the environmemt to suite the summer recreational requirement of 1% of cape cod residents against powering 75% of their homes with clean renewable energy.
04/13/07 @ 1:53 pm
lmc035@gmail.com [Member] writes:
No need to resurvey as the area is already marked as a SHOAL.
04/13/07 @ 2:24 pm
lmc035@gmail.com [Member] writes:
Oh.. so what about the cable for NSTAR to bring the same commodity to Nantucket to meet the needs of the McMansion owners?
04/13/07 @ 2:25 pm
Jack Coleman [Member] writes:
Thank you, barbaradurkin. Your comment back at 10:55 a.m. about my motivation has it exactly right. Cape Wind must win approval based on its merit or lack thereof, not the hopes and dreams of its supporters. And it speaks volumes about its supporters that after more than 85 comments here in the course of three days, at least half from wind farm advocates - but none from Cape Wind itself - not a single comment has pointed out an inaccuracy or flaw in the logic of my blog post.

If this is such a slam dunk, to borrow a phrase from George Tenet, why all the gnashing of teeth?
04/13/07 @ 2:38 pm
lmc035@gmail.com [Member] writes:
Jack -

The barges may be self propelled which makes tugs unnecessary (tugs normally have a greater draft).

I think you should consider that there are certainly good sources of information about dredging for wind farms, etc.

This from one of the denmark projects

"Dispersal of sediments during construction work
The waste from dredging and handling of the sediment will be maximum 5%. The total need for soil removal is about 25,000 m3. The total waste is estimated to a maximum of 1,050 m3, which is a little less than one day's waste from dredging at the Øresund Bridge. "
04/13/07 @ 2:41 pm
lmc035@gmail.com [Member] writes:
Jack - put up your $1 and I'll put up my $5.
04/13/07 @ 2:46 pm
lmc035@gmail.com [Member] writes:
Here's a factoid - In building Disney World, 185 acres of wetlands were deemed unusable, so they decided to dredge it and create another body of water to extend Bay Lake, creating Seven Seas Lagoon. They built a water bridge to connect the two bodies of water.

The Seven Seas Lagoon dredging provided more than seven million cubic yards of earth, which they used to raise the ground at the theme park site an average of 14 feet.
04/13/07 @ 2:58 pm
maverick [Member] writes:
Imco35...you just don't seem to understand the big picture.

Why doesn't CW just give us the exact name of "ALL" the barges to be used and their projection of dredging requirements.

If the barge specs contradict what they are proposing for dredge requirements I have a big problem.

And you my gullible friend should have one to. Or are you potentially going to benefit like the rest of the shills.

Including this rag.
04/13/07 @ 3:38 pm
maverick [Member] writes:
Imco35...please visit http://www.capecodcharterfishingboats.com and then tell me the individuals did not belong on the ocean or have the right to catch a fish for the grill.

What do you suggest? STOP AND SHOP. You my friend are what is wrong with America.
04/13/07 @ 3:49 pm
lmc035@gmail.com [Member] writes:
Just because your clients are having a good time doesn't mean it benefits the environment.

Your 'industry' isn't as bad as the draggers/trawlers who scour the ocean floor.

Maverick - how about the names of all the sport fishing boats and the tonnage they harvest from the ocean on an annual basis? And the type of bottom paint you use for your boat? And the type of marine sanitation device you have on your boat...?

Multiply that by the commercial/recreational fleet.
04/13/07 @ 4:07 pm
maverick [Member] writes:
Imco35...I have other things to do in my life besides respond to your diversions from Jack Coleman's question.

My bottom paint, sanitation device, and everything on my boat is inspected and approved annually by the USCG. If you have a problem with that take it up with them.

As to the sea being depleted of marine life in 2050 that was a premise if certain things weren't accomplished. The wheels are in motion internationally to prevent that. And sportfishing was not a major concern contributing to that prediction.

With all of your retorts you still haven't mentioned if you are now or in the future going to benefit financialy from Cape Wind. Nor has Carl B. HMMMMM.
04/13/07 @ 4:26 pm
barbaradurkin [Member] writes:
Dear Dr. Cluck:

I provide this forward 'Valid Criticism-from the opposition' by Jack Coleman as a concerned private citizen.

The Conservation Law Foundation submitted comments on the Cape Wind FEIR to MA Secretary Ian Bowles on March 22, 2007, reference "dredging”.

Cape Wind states that they do not anticipate dredging of Nantucket Sound will be required. I assume that this action would require Cape Wind to apply for state and federal permits.

Many are reviewing the Cape Wind project, and many conclude that dredging would be a necessary action. Conservation Law Foundation's comments to Secretary Bowles validate our concern that Cape Wind will require dredging.

Cape Cod residents, opposing or supporting this project, are concerned that “Cape Wind's own numbers in the FEIR provide ample reason for skepticism about its no-dredging assertion.”

Thank you for taking the time to review this material, and the Cape Wind project.

Most Respectfully,

Barbara Durkin
04/13/07 @ 4:32 pm
lmc035@gmail.com [Member] writes:
First, the foundation was placed. It is a cylindrical steel tube with a diameter of about 4 metres and a material thickness of 4.5 cm. As specially designed jack-up vessels with heavy-duty hydraulic hammers was used to drive the mono-pile some 28 to 34 metres into the seabed depending on the geology of the seabed.

Pile driving is a fast process, and piles are relatively inexpensive to produce. Geotechnical surveys at Kentish Flats show that the seabed consists of layers of sand and not too dense clay, which make mono-pile foundations particularly attractive.

The foundation ramming takes approx two hours for each monopile. Under certain weather conditions the noise from the ramming might be audible from land.

A transition piece was then casted on the foundation pile. The transition piece was pre-installed with features such as boat landing arrangement, cathoc protection, cable ducts for sub-marine cables, turbine tower flange, etc.
04/13/07 @ 4:34 pm
lmc035@gmail.com [Member] writes:
These guys have a jack-up rig which was used for the Horns-Rev install...

For more details please contact:

Combinatie Berging Tricolor
Lars Walder
Public Relations Manager CBT
Tel: +31 (0) 10 454 92 74
Mobile: +31 (0) 6 53 43 27 65
Mail: l.walder@smit.com
Internet: www.tricolorsalvage.com
04/13/07 @ 4:39 pm
lmc035@gmail.com [Member] writes:
The Buzzard was used on the Horn Rev install and has a 15 foot draft so it'll float over the 12 foot spots as long as it is lightered somewhat. OR, they use another similar rig with a slightly lower depth requirement.

Flat bottom barges used to carry deck cargo typically don't have more than 10-15 feet of draft so I don't see the need to dredge to install the towers.



Main particulars
Length : 43,00 m Displacement: 3800 tonnes
Width: 30,00 m Deck load: 10ton/ m² working area
Depth: 4,20 m 5 ton/m² accommodation
Max Draft: 2,97 m pay load: 600 tonnes
04/13/07 @ 4:39 pm
maverick [Member] writes:
Imco35...are you speaking for Cape Wind?
04/13/07 @ 4:41 pm
lmc035@gmail.com [Member] writes:
Oops.. actually the buzzard would fit handily over the 12 foot spots.. with it's max draft of 10 feet!
04/13/07 @ 4:48 pm
maverick [Member] writes:
Imco35...my friend. You have not answered my questions.

Are you now or will you profit in any way from Cape Wind?

And are you speaking for Cape Wind with the specifications you have posted?
04/13/07 @ 4:50 pm
lmc035@gmail.com [Member] writes:
Jack - when you build a fence, would you dig up a big hole and put the fence pole in or would you dig a small hole with just enough room for the fence pole?

Maverick - sorry, I don't take a paycheck by anyone associated with the project and the only benefit I currently receive is talking to you and yours and the only future benefit is seeing a great wind farm in operation!
04/13/07 @ 4:52 pm
lmc035@gmail.com [Member] writes:
This barge was actually used to salvage a car carrier full of new Audis,BMWs,SAABS, etc when the ship sank in the english channel:

Check out the photos:

http://www.tricolorsalvage.com/pages/fleet_buzzard.asp
04/13/07 @ 4:58 pm
maverick [Member] writes:
Imco35...If your barge,etc. specifications are only your thoughts how do we get the real specs from Cape Wind. Maybe you could help.
Thanks,
Jack
04/13/07 @ 6:07 pm
barbaradurkin [Member] writes:
As I said to you once before, Jack, there will always be a bridge across the divide that exists between us.

It's nice to know that I've correctly interpreted your sound reasoning for Posting this contribution. You are circumspect, intelligent, and advocating for compliance and observance of the laws that provide good guidance in the decision making process. And, you understand that any short cuts taken by Cape Wind may result in a bad decision, under a flawed project evaluation process.

While we are on opposite sides of this issue, we share common ground.

Do we also share uncommon sense?
04/13/07 @ 6:15 pm
Buzz [Member] writes:
Capri,

"Moses, ever sold a house? The land must be surveyed each time it changes hands."

Would you like to explain? That's simply not true.

That's what I love about these blogs, people just throw crap out there all the time.

Why don't we all take a deep (no pun intended) breath and take a step back and let the process and professionals do there job.

Instead of all playing scientist, biologist, surveyor, engineer, lets just be honest.

I don't want the wind farm in it's location because it's a blight on the landscape....period.
04/13/07 @ 7:27 pm
neil good [Member] writes:
I must say Ringo- you do provide loads of entertainment.

At 1:32 pm you wrote- “(Dona, Durkin & Good) have no "facts", only the BIG LIE repeated over and over again. CW is blessed to have such idiotic and phony opponents.”

Please shed more light on what you believe to be the ‘BIG LIE.’

Don’t you agree the biggest phonies on Cape Cod Today are the people who hide behind fake names?
04/13/07 @ 7:39 pm
barbaradurkin [Member] writes:
That would be me, too, on the view, Buzz. I don’t consider this a one adverse impact per customer issue. There are so many potential adverse impacts that will occur if Cape Wind is permitted—it scares me.

It should come as no surprise under an ad hoc review of a world's largest industrial project that problems with Cape Wind continue to surface.

The developer has selected this site based on his cost considerations.

If it wasn't for private citizen shoring up this process, MMS would not even know about the inclusion of the Electrical Service Platform ESP that would contain 40,000 gallons of unnamed oil if this project is constructed in the developer’s choice location, pathetically speaking.

Dona raises excellent points, consider legal boundaries defined as a condition of a property transfer.

Thank you, Cliff Carroll.
04/13/07 @ 8:38 pm
maverick [Member] writes:
Buzz...your comment "
Instead of all playing scientist, biologist, surveyor, engineer, lets just be honest."

That's all we are asking Cape Wind to be "honest".

Is that to much to ask with Nantucket Sound in the balance.
04/13/07 @ 8:53 pm
Jack Coleman [Member] writes:
lmco35, in response to your question, I'd dig a small hole with just enough room for the fence pole. When this type of work is performed on a shoal, it's known as dredging.

My offer of a wager comes with 1,000 to 1 odds, not the 5 to 1 odds suggested by you. Thank you for suggesting them, however; by doing so you bolstered my premise.

Perhaps you are unclear on the concept of the "sure thing." Allow me to explain. If someone offers you 1,000 to one odds against the sun rising in the east tomorrow, that's a bet you really want to take. If you did, you are virtually certain to win a dollar and not lose $1,000. See how it works? If you wish to make that type of wager with me, I'd readily accept, despite those daunting 1,000 to one odds.

Why the hesitation to accept my wager, by you and every single Cape Wind supporter who has commented here, and by those who read the post and haven't commented, except for a glaringly obvious reason - you don't know one way or the other whether dredging will be necessary.

Money talks, uncertainty folds.
04/13/07 @ 11:04 pm
Carl B. Freeman [Member] writes:
maverick, if by honest, do you mean that 'No dredging will be necessary' must be spoken by Jim Gordon alone? ...or is it O.K. if his company puts out an official statement saying the same thing.

Such a tempest in a Tea-shoal.

If CW really must dredge and is trying to cover it up, you should be jumping with joy. They would finally trip up and not be able to go forward.

I would think this conspiracy is just what you've been waiting for. Now, you could spend all day blogging, or break into CW's offices and get the real poop.

Darn! I just gave away the perfect plan. Uhhh, wait, forget I said anything.

Nice day huh?
04/13/07 @ 11:31 pm
Jack Coleman [Member] writes:
It probably is just a tempest in a tea-shoal, Carl. And maybe it will be quelled by an official statement from Cape Wind - make that, another official statement from Cape Wind - categorically denying that dredging will be necessary. And maybe such a statement will pass muster with MMS, where it really matters, and maybe it won't.

But official statements, in the wake of Enron, Sept. 11, Katrina and Iraq, don't carry the weight they used to. Looking back over the last few years, I suspect I've placed too much faith in official statements. The time has come for something decidedly more substantial.
04/14/07 @ 7:25 am
bittersweet [Member] writes:
So, what do you all suggest? Something has to be done...we can't keep going on as we are. The planet is dying! And honestly, it is hypocritical when you think of how much pollution all these current fishing boats, and pleasure boats already cause to the natural environment. But that's a price we are willing to pay for the benefit of those who can afford a boat. So, why not outlaw diesel engine motors from the waters?(if that's what they use) That will never happen. It profits too many. So, maybe the wind farm is an opportunity for a better way. And honest to god, there are some of us who could sure use a break on these bills that keep going go up and up and up, while our salaries stay the same! Or is Cape Cod really just for people with a lot of money?, and should that really be the way? You gotta ask, which situation causes the most damage...the one we're in now, or the possible one with a wind farm? Oil from the Saudi's, or an opportunity to be self-sustaining?