Op-Ed

Maverick,

I believe that the grid accepts about 3,000 MW/Hr on average virtually all of which comes from burning fossil fuel. CW's rated capacity is 170 MW/Hr. That's about 6% of the total average grid demand.

Simple enough? The hard part is understanding that virtually all plants on a grid contribute a small percentage of total demand like Cape Wind would. So, a single clean energy plant that contributes a small percentage go a grid is not just a useless drop in the bucket. All plants are drops in the bucket.

Tell me that's not too hard for you.

dk...simple questions deserve simple answers. "what % of destructive energy in MA will be replaced by wind factory energy. And what % of pollution from present energy sources will be reduced at the same time". If no one knows how can they claim a benefit to the destruction of Nantucket Sound?

Carl,

I think you lost the wind farm people, both pro and con, because the title of your editorial just said "Retort to JFK, Jr." but didn't mention Cape Wind.

Too bad: I would have loved to hear the Cape Wind opponents try to defend RFK's hysterical criticisms. Picking off the Cape Wind critics trying to defend RFK would have been like shooting fish in a barrel. It would have been great sport!

Maverick,

Why am I not surprised to learn that you are one of those "magic bullet seekers" in the Wind/Cape Wind debate. That is, one of those people who say:

"Cape Wind will only be a drop in the bucket so it's not worth doing".

Of course, you and others that use this line of reasoning ignore the obvious point that ever single stinking power plant in the country is - by itself - a drop in the bucket. Using your logic, we'd never have built a single power plant in this country!

To move away from fossil fuels we're going to have to build hundreds/thousands of plants of every stripe: Wind, solar, hydro, and yes nuclear. Each, like Cape Wind, will be a drop in the bucket but if we build enough of them the bucket will be full.

And finally: The person slinging the BS is RFK Jr., not Carl who has quite clearly and patiently explained each of RFK's lies.

As I said in my 1st post: I've never seen to many anti-Cape Wind lies in a single interview. Impressive!

Carl...if you find a little time while composing wind songs please give us the % of energy pollution that will be eliminated by the destruction of Nantucket Sound.

Forget your "science stuff". We want facts and a little less BS with a few prayers thrown in.

PS...preacher, you leave more crap on this site than my pet cows. Moooooo!

Where are all the wind foes with their precious stories that the sound will be destroyed by wind turbines.

I guess I lost them all by using that 'science' stuff. I thought that when I refuted royalty, all the followers would come out of the windwork to defend the prince.

Alas, they must be pretty busy figuring out their next delay tactic.

hey come on they are American royalty dont be so hard on him. You know rules arent for them, you know like DUI, paying payroll taxes on household employees etc. Rules are for people like you Carl you selfish little business man just trying to line his own pockets on the backs of those poor people living on the water.

Karent2,

Since our environment cannot be reproduced in a laboratory, it is impossible to "prove" global warming categorically. Rather, as with a great deal of our accepted science, we must rely upon the consensus of scientists.

An extremely high percentage of the world's climatologists believe that human activity is accelerating global warming. A tiny minority, and a lot of crackpots, disagree.

Who are we to believe? The vast preponderance of scientists of course.

You want to believe the tiny minority? OK, that's your right. But it makes no sense.

That show had been here before...David Icke mentioned it in a book he wrote years ago.
We all know the tv is a major mind-manipulator...
Just look at Fox news! But Jesse Ventura I love.
"How gullible the American public is to believe this is all Obama's fault. We all know this is George Bush's mess."Except for a few wing-nut cases who own all of media, that is.
"The British Antarctic Survey released a statement indicating the melting affects all latitudes of Greenland, is spreading, and has intensitifed on Antarctic coastlines. The glaciers are melting at rates faster than the precipitation can replace the ice shelves. We have "underestimated" the sensitive ice sheets' response to temperature changes. He points to not only the warm water at the edges of the glaciers, but also the warm ocean currents contributing to the melt."
Who is he kidding? We all know that cold climate is what causes warm water! Does he think we are all stupid?

http://www.chicagotribune.com/entertainment/chi-tc-tvcolumn-v-1102-1103nov03,0,7062976.story

'V' aims at Obamamania

Imagine this. At a time of political turmoil, a charismatic, telegenic new leader arrives virtually out of nowhere. He offers a message of hope and reconciliation based on compromise and promises to marshal technology for a better future that will include universal health care.

The news media swoons in admiration..
The public is likewise smitten, except for a few nut cases who circulate batty rumors on the Internet about the leader's origins and intentions. The leader, undismayed, offers assurances that are soothing, if also just a tiny bit condescending: "Embracing change is never easy."
it's also a barbed commentary on Obamamania that will infuriate the president's supporters and delight his detractors.

How's New Jersey and Virginia doing for ya?

possee

Don't be silly Ana...that is the natural process of the Earth that is making you sick.
Humans had nothing to do with it.
Geez, you blind fool...get with the program.
More exhaust is good for the environment. Nature intended it that way.
Now be a good American and remove another mountain top...I feel the desire to take a harbor cruise and dump my effluence into the ocean.
And why not spill some oil while we're at it...warming/shmarming.....I am Man. I am Beyond Reproach.

Anyone that believes in global warming is a moron and has no understanding of all the related facts. What I've heard over the past few years is that sea level will rise due to the polar ice caps melting due to global warming. As of late, pictures have shown the glaciers retreating and the ice caps melted so where's the rise in the sea level? Anyone?????? And when was the last time it snowed in October in MA?

Sit behind someone in a drive-thru,and when you become ill from the fumes, you'll have the answer....

Is pollution a hoax?
Do we need to do something about it or not?
Levels of co2 in air are way above what should be.....
This is all a fantasy?
Tell that to the myriad of people who die from respitory disease- black lung- asthma -cancer-leukemia-etc etc etc.

Charles and Barbara,

What would you think of a Cap and Trade system that did not give away any allowances? Would that be beneficial?

I really like the idea of offsetting payroll tax with the carbon tax.

Last question: The political sun is blocked out right now by health care but the Congress is considering Cap and Trade right? Are we in danger of Cap and Trade passing without much public attention because of Health Care?

Carl,

Now that article is a keeper. Any reasonable person watching the Cape Wind debate knows that opponents lie, distort and exaggerate. But I personally have never seen so many lies uttered in a single interview. Thanks for pointing them out and then rebutting them.

What is it about Cape Wind that makes otherwise reasonable people into foam-at-the-mouth demagogues? You yourself said that you agreed with most of what Kennedy said until Cape Wind came up. Then, it seems that some switch was thrown and Kennedy underwent some Dr. Jekyll/Mr. Hyde transformation.

Just on exaggeration: Kennedy would have us believe that the New England Grid, which accepts thousands of MW of power each day, couldn't accommodate one medium sized (440 MW) wind farm? Where does something as misguided as that come from within Kennedy?

Is Kennedy just blatantly defending the view from his family's compound? Is he that selfish?

Maverick,

Well, I'm not a radar expert but I have carefully read every pronouncement from the FAA on Cape Wind and I've researched the FAA's process including its use of the Presumed Hazard designation.

Now, I know that may be hard for you to understand. That is, that it's possible to do one's homework on stuff like this. That's obviously not in your repertoire.

You mention radar for sea going vessels: Well, there's no outstanding issue there. The Coast Guard has stated that Cape Wind is not a significant threat to navigation.

For the benefit of others, I'll continue to point out your errors Maverick so go ahead and keep making them. It'll help me and other responsible posters to dispel the lies and exaggerations repeated over and over about Cape Wind.

Peter..."And where pray tell would I find the rules o' the blog?"

Walter has stacked the deck against me. I am playing the game with one arm tied behind my back.

Peter...Thanks for your consideration.

CCToday [Member] writes:

"The commenting rules, as Maverick knows better than most being a regular abuser, state that no one may make a second comment unless another readers has first commented on yours.
Shape up or ship out!"

Is that right?

I've seen one member drop seven or eight posts in a row with nary a word.

And where pray tell would I find the rules o' the blog?

dk...please stick to comments about our racist president. When it comes to wind you don't know your a$$ from your elbow.

Fossil fuels for heat don't make us dependent on the middle east. The car you drive does. Start walking my friend.

And since when are you a radar expert? The FAA is just one part of the radar problem. They provide a radar safety hazard for vessels at sea. Don't they count?

Re: the FAA and Cape Wind:

The FAA has issued a "presumed hazard" which it always issues while it's investigating something. The designation of "presumed hazard" does not mean that a hazard exists. Rather, it means that a potential hazard is being studied. We must wait until the FAA completes its investigation to understand this.

The FAA has said, however, that the radar problems caused by Cape Wind can be fixed for a maximum of $15 million which Cape Wind would pay. This would be a tiny expense for Cape Wind which will have to raise hundreds of millions in financing.

Now, the FAA continues to investigate and they could find more problems. But for now, what they've turned up is very small potatoes and easily addressable.

So, don't be misled into thinking that this radar thing is a dire safety problem. In typical fashion, the Alliance and company are exaggerating and misleading here.

Yeah Bitter: If every form of fuel that we use for energy today had to undergo the withering critique that Wind has had to undergo in the Cape Wind debate, we'd still be living in the dark!

People seem to think that Wind must be a perfect fuel when our current fuels are far from that. Fossil fuels heat the planet and make us dependent upon the Middle East. Nuclear has storage and safety problems. Etc.

Only wind has to run the gauntlet of near perfection!

I'm with you on that one dk. They don't seem to care one bit about all the damage that oil and coal do to the environment or the people who have to live around it.
It's been decades of death and destruction there, and it never gets acknowledged....only point to what could happen with the wind farm.
If we weren't so selfish in the first place, we wouldn't need so much energy...Always have to be bigger and better. Well, I geuss that mantle can be handed over now....thanks to Capitalism expanding in other places.
Wasn't there just an oil spill??? Yes, from a ship named Dubai.
No mention of the harm done there....only the possible damage from the farm in the Sound.
And for many it's not about the money anyway...it's about taking a new direction with the way we manage our place in the world.....Solar, Wind, Geo-Thermal, Fission, Tesla...whatever we can do to minimize the pollution and disgusting black smoke.
Asthma anyone?

Maverick and others:

Your objections about the lights going out, cold showers, brown outs, etc. rest on one fundamental assumption: That wind will be used as a a dominant or majority source of power on a grid. That will never happen: Grid managers are too smart to do that to us.

Most experts in grid management believe that the maximum for wind on a typical grid is around 20%. Reasons for this include:

- Too much variability is introduced above that level
- The cost of backup skyrockets beyond that level

Grid managers know what they're doing: They'll limit the use of Wind to avoid problems associated with the variability of wind.

At or near 20% Wind will never be a panacea for our energy problems. But it can be a dependable, solid contributor.

Finally, Barbara ferrets out every single glitch that ever happened with wind and regurgitates them in her posts. Of course, all sources of energy have had their glitches too. She makes it sound like only Wind has ever had a problem. Silly of course. Don't believe her incredibly biased stuff.

Elliet:

Wind turbines cause air traffic, navigational, and Doppler radar interference according to the FAA, U.S Coast Guard and the National Weather Service.

Wind energy transfers citizens' monetary and resource wealth to multinationals in exchange for promises historically unkept.

The path to fuel poverty and BLACKOUTS is paved by wind turbines that harm wildlife and their habitats.

It's time for NIMBYism to stop! The wind farm will not interfere with any navigation or flight patterns - this has already been established by all review boards. The wind turbines are graceful additions to the landscape, especially as we see the dollars accumulate in our pockets and the horizon become clearer as pollution is reduced. 80% plus citizens want this to happen so the time is now.

Barbara D states..."The controversy suggests that even the eco-friendliest may start to have second thoughts when fidelity to green principles entails giving up hot showers in the morning or air-conditioning in the summer. We may find that the "truth" is a bit too inconvenient after all."

If this fiasco is approved your electric bills will be out of sight. And you deserve what ever you get. You did no research, jumped on a bandwagon of free wind and free electricity.

CCToday and Cape Wind sucked you all in and you fell for it. Good luck.

Pardon my failure to cite the "headache" attribution to wind energy to the Wall Street Journal.

'Save the Planet? Even the Indians Have Reservations'.

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748703363704574503480121623964.html?mod=googlenews_wsj

We are indeed behind Europe, and so we can still avoid fuel poverty and BLACKOUTS attributed to a near fatal preoccupation with marginal forms of renewable energy.

'BLACKOUT BRITAIN WARNING'
http://www.express.co.uk/posts/view/60259/Blackout-Britain-warning

'Save the Planet? Even the Indians Have Reservations'. "But the Cape Wind affair isn't just another case of NIMBYism run amok; it is a good test of just how durable fashionable environmental convictions are. Wind turbines whirring on the scenic horizon might seem a small price to pay for the cause, but they have proved to be a big headache."

Wind energy is a must for multinationals. Americans don't need any more headaches.

Thank you for sharing your well considered thoughts, Maverick, Tony and Kay.

Please note that this is not a sarcastic question in any way. I haven't exactly made up my mind about the wind farm so I am really just seeking relative information.

How is your home uninhabitable?

October 30, 2009
4 AM

Absolutely NONE OF THIS can justify the fact that industrial wind turbines are making my home uninhabitable; as they will yours, or those of your families, your neighbours, your children, the fish in our lakes, etc, etc, etc.

Because my home is uninhabitable, it cannot be sold. Where do I go to sleep? I can’t afford to buy an extra home. Where will you go to sleep? Where will the fish go to sleep?

Canada is ahead only in the matter of disrupting the lives of their constituents and well on the road to permanently disabling them; not to mention the financial burden we will have to bear for elevated electricity rates and as taxpayers to support subsidization of industrial wind farms. Take a long, hard look at all of the consequences before proceeding any further.

Kay

A response to Tony and others.

For your information, the power plant nearest you, the Canal Plant is an oil fueled power plant. As are Unit 4 at Brayton Point and Unit 4 at Salem Harbor.

In fact, according to ISO New England, the folks that run the power grid, almost 25 percent of the installed capacity in New England is oil fueled power plants.

And most important, the single most expensive fossil fuel to generate electricity is oil (mostly imported), next is natural gas, and last is coal… that cheap dirty stuff.

It is a fact that every megawatt-hour of wind (or solar) power will offset, or back off, a megawatt-hour of electricity generated from an oil fueled plant, then from a gas fired plant and then a coal burner, in that order. You can’t store electrical energy on the grid.

Regards,
Chuck Kleekamp, P.E. Ret.
President, Clean Power Now

Since when does foreign oil have anything to do with wind turbines? I doubt there is much or any electricity generated by oil fired plants in the US or Canada.
You are in fact at least 10 years ahead of anyone who is naive and gullible enough to believe that wind power will do anything except help take you back to the 1920's or before.Wake up people and get yourself educated as to the realities of this unreliable , inefficient,expensive excuse for electrical generation that will help send your economy further down the tube at your expense - a little due diligence and you will learn the wind power is a symbol of stupidity.

whalerick...the Cape Wind fiasco has nothing to do with green energy. It is all about a developer making big money on tax credits and subsidies.

I'd say WE'RE a decade ahead of Canada, in that we haven't spoiled our lovely Nantucket Sound, as they have done with a wind farm in their waters. Plenty of other locations in the US to put these things.

Does your response count as a comment?

If so would you like a deceased family member have their final resting place disrupted by a pile driver?

The commenting rules, as Maverick knows better than most being a regular abuser, state that no one may make a second comment unless another readers has first commented on yours.
Shape up or ship out!

Jim..."We are decades behind Europe in using offshore wind." I agree.

But Cape Wind is trying to site the wind factory in the worst possible place. Against all environmental logic. In the middle of the Northeast Flyway. In the middle of Nantucket Sound and in direct interference of the ferries to the outer islands as well as the few commercial fisherman left on Cape Cod.

That new Canadian Wind Farm in the Thousand Island vacation area was originally financed by Joe "For Oil" Kennedy. See near the bottom of this Canadian Chamber Newsletter here:
http://www.wolfeisland.com/mtnews/archives/2004_08.php

duuuuuuuuuude.