CapeCodToday Blog Chowder

Um, a house in Orleans was struck by lightning last night and caused an actual structure fire. Full first alarm/working fire assignment.

Car into building, RHCI. No big deal! :-)

CWN is just getting soooo good, they can predict the future now!! :-D

Seriously, though, these folks are probably doing this for little or no compensation, so who cares if spelling/grammar, etc. is off a little! Keep up the good work, Tim! Chkk!

Hey fleetion, be careful, people might take you seriously!

LadyJ you're right. And based on his criminal history, I doubt he would've been deported anyway for this incident had he just pulled over.

There's no such thing as "Shoot to maime." If an officer is firing their weapon, it's "Shoot to kill." Shooting out tires or shooting the gun out of someone's hand is stuff for movies.

No worries fireman. I was just kidding around!

:-) Hope you feel better!

Fireman-

Your use of punctuation marks is atrocious. Ellipses are three periods strung together to show that parts of the text, usually in a quote is left out. Two periods together are incorrect. Also, your parenthesis use is inappropriate, as well. You neglected to have a space after the question mark. Also, parenthesis come before the punctuation at the end of a sentence. And again, ;) is not an appropriate end-of-sentence punctuation.

:-)

Let's see, I've Medflighted several skull fractures, a couple of head bleeds, an 11-year-old having a stroke, even a bicyclist who sheared their ear off in an accident but nope, never flew out a papercut!

possee: some of us ARE "on the scene, licensed, and professionals." usps is merely postal.

Fleetion: I'd call Medflight but they don't go out in the snow, either. You should know that. ;-)

I assume USPS02651 means you work for the US Postal Service in Eastham. Know what bugs me? When I can't get my mail in the winter because I didn't shovel a 30 foot wide swath of snow out in front of my mailbox so you don't have to reach your hand out into the cold and put mail in my mailbox.

Brewster and Eastham responded to the call as well . . .

Orleans responded to an automatic fire alarm yesterday morning. It turned out to be some sort of fire on the second floor of a 2 story residence on Weston Taylor drive. Orleans struck a working fire assignment, then a second alarm (presumably for water supply). The fire was knocked down by Olreans FD. Normally, I wouldn't report on this, but if it weren't for the automatic fire alarm, the fire would've taken the roof off . . .

If a tree falls in Provincetown, and no one is around to hear it . . .

What does ffrdlt3 stand for, anyway?

Good work as always, Tim! Keep it up!

Aaand that's why brush season ended almost 2 months ago!

Yes, FF it was a good save. Capeesq has no idea what he/she is talking about.

Why, when a department has more full-time firefighters, do fires burn slower?

Is the car going somewhere that it should be further stabilized? :-)

Actually, Yarmouth is the busiest, logging 6,135 runs last year. Hyannis, second with 5,825. Falmouth was third, with 5,701 runs. Check the links on this page to go to CapeCodFD.com for more run stats!

Having fished for 2 seasons, I always find pictures of sinking/sunken boats very eerie . . .

So troy, what would your ideal fire department be? The Barnstable County Fire Department? To me, I don't think it would seem fair of people in smaller towns like Wellfleet, Truro, etc., will have to absorb the operating costs of busier towns such as COMM, Yarmouth, Bourne, etc. What's your idea of regionalization?

I don't know why the cops have to be tazered. They certainly don't have to be shot to understand the power behind their 9 mm service weapon.

Buzz, I think you're on to something! That's actually a good idea! I'm sure there's some suckers out there that would pay a couple hundred bucks to do that!

Actually Andy, if you look at it, there is damage to the interior roof of the vehicle. The car could definitely have rolled over and landed on its wheels.

Who are you people? And why are you talking about my Brewster Bretheren??

Fireman-

Firetrucks and firefighters are struck all the time. People just don't pay attention. You'd be suprised to find out how many firefighters/EMT's/police officers are killed every year in these kind of incidents. If that firetruck wasn't parked where it was, I'm sure that car would've hit emergency workers instead. We're trained to park our apparatus in such a way that it acts as a barrier from idiots like that!

If the police don't chase and something happens because they don't, then the people cry, "Why didn't the police do anything? Why are we paying them?" If the police chase someone and something happens, then the people cry, "Why were they chasing them? Police shouldn't participate in chases." Damned if you do, damned if you don't!

Could the grammar nazi's stop correcting Tim, please? :-)

Yes, very nice photos. It saddens me, however, that when an article is posted on 9 dead firefighters, there is only 1 comment made. Post an article on a dead minke whale and there are seven. Perhaps if an article on the budget of the fire department it would get more of a response.

Thinking of those on the Charleston Fire Dept. . .

Yes, it would be nice to have the State Police SWAT/STOP/ESU team to come to incidents on the Cape. Where's the nearest team? How long will it take to get here? And of course, that's assuming that they're not on other calls, and that they're hanging around waiting for the opportunity to come to the Cape just to save taxpayers some cash.

How about the cops just stay in their own towns? So what if there's only one cruiser on the road in one town because it's taxpayers don't want to pay overtime. If that cruiser's tied up on a call, an another call comes in, I guess the second call will have to wait, because the Yarmouth Taxpayer thinks it's a waste to have mutual aid police response.

I know what y'all mean. The other day I was passed by a Statie on Route 6 that was doing at least 80, and he had no lights on so I assume he wasn't responding anywhere. Yet a couple of months ago, I get pulled over for doing 70.

Police are trained to "shoot to kill," aim for center mass. Hitting the arm or the leg, or shooting out the tires is for the movies only.

Obviously looking back on it, the response was overkill. Time to move on.

However, if something blew up and people were killed, or if a couple of planes flew into some buildings, I'm sure there'd be commissions and committees formed to figure out why nobody did anything about it before it happened.

It was . . .

No comment . . .

Blancety and bub's, are you two firefighters or medics?

I am, so people might think my opinion is predjudiced. Because you two are making sense. Unlike Not-so-common-sense. :-)

So Mcfly, what happens when staffing from one station moves to another? Who covers the now empty station? In Yarmouth, there's only 2 or 3 firefighters covering stations 2 & 3. So the only 2 people covering station 2 should leave their station empty to go backfill another station? THat's plain silly.

And no, not all of the overtime is callback. A lot (if not most) of it is vacation time and sick time, etc. that gets covered.

Tim- Is that a cruiser involved? It looks like it, unless the officer parked a little too close to the scene!

It's certainly different for every town. And in some towns, it's not just full time people responding. Some towns have call-personnel which respond (like Brewster), and some of the overtime is shift coverage, too (vacation and sick time, etc.). But I couldn't tell you the numbers here.

Also, more staffing at the station would be safer for the firefighters and the public. It's easier putting out a fire with 4 on an engine, and not just 2 or 3.

Redwords, you are most forgiven! :-)

"the added firefighters would create a situation where there would be less callbacks and proper coverage, with on duty men/women. the added saleries, cost of insuring those people, would in my opinion make it almost a wash, but would make it so the overtime budget is not exceeded"
Yes, you are correct. Although I'm not sure of the numbers, it would probably be close to the same. What it also would allow is for chiefs to better plan their budget, if there was less unpredictable overtime.

"Gee, I thought the idea was to REDUCE response times to fires and medical calls."

Not if it's not happening to common sense. I see this all the time.

Maybe the idea is to just bill the townsfolk AFTER services rendered. How's that?

"demand for services creates the overtime"

Redwords, it absolutely does. The only way to eliminate the need for overtime is to staff the station/apparatus with more full-time personnel.

" understand everyone wants less taxes but we are talking about a job in which minuets count"

You're absolutely right, bub's, but people don't understand that. They have the "It won't happen to me" attitude. And they don't realize that just putting one station in the center of town and not having call back or whatever will increase response times.

Again, these aren't scare tactics, it's fact. Minutes really DO count here!

Redwords, who are you talking to? I was referring my comments to "common sense." I agree with what you were saying before.

"One central Fire Deprtment Building will reduce costs,personnel,and increase response" And what happens when those personnel are tied up on calls? Do you know how long it takes to respond from a "central station" to the outlying boundaries of the town? You can't just stick 1 station in the middle and hope for the best. Look at Brewster, we're on 6A "centrally located" and it still takes us 7-10 minutes to get to some areas of town.

"that stupid tax payers have no idea how a fire department" No, I certainly don't think taxpayers are stupid. But if you state that they should just stick 1 station in the center of town and eliminate callback, then you really have no idea how a fire department works.

"Imagine having a Paramedic come to help you who has been working for 23 straight hours?" I do it all the time. So don't doctors. Besides, all we paramedics do is sleep and play PlayStation, so what does it matter how long we work?

"You want 24 hour shifts so you can work your full time jobs that have nothing to do with the Fire Department." What full time jobs? We get paid so well at the FD with all our "Made up overtime," we don't need to work.

And I don't work in Yarmouth, either.

Common sense, you obviously have none. Until you understand how a fire department operates, you need to keep your comments to yourself.

Tell us how you REALLY feel redwords!! :-)

What kind of health care worker are you, anyway?

"you appear to be a decent guy but with a little thin skin." No, but I just get slightly defensive when people start questioning paying ff's overtime, and their reasoning behind it.

Do you question why the DPW pays overtime during snow storms so that they can plow roads?

Do you question the police overtime when they get overtime to come in and cover empty shifts?

Do you question when you pay the car mechanic or plumber or electrician 75-80 dollars an hour for THEIR services? How about lawyers? Have you ever hired one?

I agree that senseless spending is rediculous. Our town purchased a quarter acre of useless median land for a million bucks, then spent thousands more cleaning up the haz-mat that was buried underneath. But it kills me that the same people at town meeting that vote for purchases like this one, are so adimant against paying firefighters overtime.

To test this, breathe through a straw for 5 minutes (or whatever you pick for an average response time), then stop. That's how long it would take to administer medications to get you breathing well again.

Now, Breathe through a straw for 10 minutes, because maybe that's how long it would take for call personnel to respond from their homes, to the fire station to pick up an ambulance, then respond to your house.

Ok, now breathe through a straw for 20 minutes. That's how long it will take for the one paramedic truck to get back to town from their ALS transfer from one of their contracted nursing homes. (And I work for a private company off Cape. If you don't think that happens, trust me, it does. Got sent through 3 towns and 20-25 minutes to a contracted nursing home for a medical emergency, because any closer units were not available. It's the sad truth.).

Not using scare tactics, it's fact. Nothing beats having fire department EMS response wise, or skill wise.

"Wah I have already answered this question but willagain" Oops, you're right. I was thinking of something else. Sorry I wasn't paying attention! :-)

"If its soooobad to be a Cop or fireman " It's not bad at all. Best job in the world.

"But I believe that those involved should be able to work it out without always reaching into my pocket" Unfortunately, fire and medical (etc.) protection costs money. You have to have the appropriate staffing levels to handle emergency calls. It's that simple. So, the choice is still the same. Either pay for call-back, or hire more full-time personnel. If you wanted to go back in time, you could form a call department and hope someone would show up when an emergency occurs.

This isn't scare tactics, it's fact. Minutes really do count in most emergencies. I'm not saying people are going to die violent deaths if you don't have callback, but Minutes are precious during heart attacks, stroke, trauma, cardiac arrest, and structure fires.

Even during a "simple" difficulty breathing call, minutes are important. (Cont)

"He also called the Barnstable fire districts, "double dippers," which means the districts collect from insurance companies, then go back and invoice amblance clients for the difference between their invoice and the insurance payment."

How is that "double dipping?" It's collecting on the balance of a bill. If I go to the dentist, and my insurance only covers x%, then I'm expected to pick up the balance. I don't understand what your Fallon guy was talking about.

SO Yarmouthguy, how much do you want to pay a firefighter? And what's your solution to maintain staffing? I'd like to know!

"A married couple who are firefighters in the Cotuit Fire Department earned a quarter million dollars last year. Their home is assessed at $1 million.

Most of their salary was overtime from ambulance calls, not for Cotuit, that has only 1,500 residents, but from outside aid to Mashpee.

Mashpee ambulance calls bring patients to Falmouth Hospital, a 40 minute drive from Cotuit.

Cotuit has only one ambulance.

Cotuit residents are without ambulance service for as much as an hour and a half when its ambulance is on a Mashpee run.

The couple's overtime was $125,000.

That means Cotuit had more time without an ambulance than it did with one."

Cotuit did 715 TOTAL calls last year. That includes mutual aid. If this couple you speak of responded to EVERY single call, I still don't think they could have made that much. Check your facts again . . .

"Fallon Ambulance Company who said they typically sign contracts that specify they will send two paramedics who will arrive within five minutes of the 911 call."

Ok, what happens when those 2 paramedics are tied up on one call, and there is another call?

"To whomever replied about ISO ratings, I'd like to mention that ambulance service plays NO PART in ISO ratings."

That is correct, I believe, and if I'm not mistaken, ISO only affects commercial insurance . . . I'm not sure though.

Well, then fire all the firefighters, make them a call/volunteer department (because they'd only be needed 10 times per year), hire a private company and see what happens.

Yikes! Sounds like you taught in the good section of town (sarcasm)! Where was it?

And yes, I've had similar situations like the one you've mentioned, too. It sucks when you try to do your best for someone, and you get abused anyway!

situations that I had mentioned.

And that doesn't include any of the responsibilities that an officer has.

"the Firemen are doing two jobs for the price of one"

And three jobs, and four jobs, etc. Not only do we put out fires, and not only are we paramedics or EMT's, but I personally also perform the following:

Firefighter
Engine/Apparatus driver/operator
Paramedic
Instructor
Training Committee
Uniform acquisition
Rescue Swimmer
Search and Rescue/Recovery Diver
Rapid Intervention

And not to mention that most fire departments are the ONLY town departments that perform their own janitorial services. When was the last time you saw a police officer or town clerk scrubbing their own toilets??

And what I do is a minimum! There are so many other firefighters that do far more than I do!

Hazardous Materials
Tech Rescue (incl. rope, trench high angle rescue, etc.)
EMS coordinator
Fire Prevention
Fire Inspection
Fire Investigator
Dispatcher

And most of these functions are just part of the job. Most firefighters are not paid extra to perform these functions.

And at any time of any day, firefighters have to be prepared to respond to ANY of the above

THere could be hundreds of reasons why negotiations go wrong. THe union could possibly want more money. Maybe the town wants the firefighters to work 48 hour shifts, maybe the chief wants the firefighters to wear suit and ties to work everyday, or the town wants to take away all their benefits. Maybe the union wants 100 more vacation days a year, I don't know (I've exaggerated slightly here!). There are so many possibilities. But, they're confidential, so we'll never know! Only the negotiating members of the union and the town and chief know. Not all the firefighters know, either, because it's even confidential from them.

I don't know if YFD ff's have a problem with their chief. I don't know if the chief has a problem with them. It's possible, I guess. Not everyone likes their boss, do they?

"no third or forth option? either or take it or leave it? No wonder you dont have a contract" Yes, yarmouthguy, there is a third and fourth option:

Wait for mutual aid from other towns to come to Yarmouth to handle their emergencies, or, whoever is having the emergency has to wait until the Yarmouth ambulance or engine is available to handle the call. Any other ideas??

I don't know how much money spent, but I certainly spent my own free time. I took plenty more than 3 courses!

When conversations like this take place, I can only blame the fire service. People constantly say things like "eliminate overtime, no call back, decrease staffing," etc. etc. What this is is the failure of the fire departments to educate the public appropriately on their needs and requirements.

No, I'm not in Yarmouth, I'm in Brewster, actually.

Overtime would not be zero if the town eliminates EMS. You'd still need callback for fire type incidents, as they are more manpower intensive, anyway.

"Boston ambulance service is provided by private companies and I have never heard of any lack of service and Boston is much larger than Yarmouth, by a mile"
Yes, but Boston EMS is backed up by a number of other private companies, because they don't have the necessary personnel and ambulances to handle the call volume, and they Don't have callback!

They also wear bullet proof vests to work. NO thank you.

And like I've said before. Either pay OT or pay to hire more staff. It's that simple.

Yarmouthguy, how much would YOU pay per firefighter for fire and EMS protection??

Yarmouthguy, what do you do?

"In my job I am required to take cont ed every yr at a cost of over $750 per. no one but me pays that. and I cover my own medical, dental, life and have NO retirment" $750 bucks? Please. . .

So because you cover your own benefits, everyone else should too?

As a firefighter, on the job for 4 years or so, I make a base salary of $41,000 per year. It breaks down to $19.71 per hour. My OT rate is $29.56/hour. I make $19.67 in the private service. I started there last month. Benefits are the same.

And yes, that OT breakdown is very accurate.

They just may. And there are TONS of reasons why that would be a shame, from a decrease in customer service to firefighter safety. EMS makes up about 70-80 percent of fire department calls on the Cape. I think Yarmouth does a little more than 5,000 calls annually. That's about 37-3800 calls that just got taken away from the fire department. There would have to be significant layoffs, reduction in stations and apparatus. And most certainly, a decrease in the level of care and "customer service" provided to the town of Yarmouth.

YOu certainly wouldn't pay to have FD medics if you're also paying to have private service medics, would you?

Stick with the fire department EMS. It's the fastest, it's the best. The Cape's mutual aid system is excellent, too.

When the public calls for help, the fire department shows up. Regardless of the time of day, regardless of how busy it is, and regardless of the emergency.

What price can you put on that??

"Would a private company save the taxpayers money and provide the same excellent service we have now in providing ambulance service" If the service is excellent, stop complaining!

So let's say Yarmouth hires AMR to do EMS in town. How many ambulances are you going to have, and what happens when an ambulance crew is tied up on a trip to the hospital, or on an extended call?

Let's say AMR puts 1 ALS (Advanced Life Support, staffed with 1 or 2 paramedics) unit and 2 BLS (Basic Life Support, staffed with 2 EMT-Basics)units. The ALS unit goes to the hospital with a patient having chest pain. Just as their leaving, a call for a respiratory distress call comes in. Where are you going to get the paramedics to respond to administer treatment to THIS patient? Does AMR do call-back? No . . . So the BLS units will handle the call. Unfortunately, they cannot adminster some of the life-saving medications that paramedics can administer.

Maybe the fire department medics can respond, but you probably don't have any anymore because they're not really needed.

Good question, Concerned. I'd like to know how much we should get paid, too.

But albert is right about the 4 hour call back. Some towns (I'm not sure which ones, definitely not many and not mine!!) have a 4 hour call back minimum, but it's only between the hours of somewhere around midnight and 6AM. And I believe (don't quote me, I don't know exactly why) the reason for the 4 hours is to make it worthwhile getting out of bed and leaving your house in the middle of the night to go to work. I'd certainly rather stay in bed! Especially when it's cold and snowy.

YEs, you are right, too, about the blizzard of 2005. All firfefighters and EMT/Medics were to go into work (and we were all incredibly busy, too!). I Know I was at the station for 2 days at least. Trust me, forget overtime. The last place I want to be for 2 days during a blizzard is at work!!!

Yes it is, Dr. Know. I certainly wasn't trained by the department I'm on right now.

Also, training for firefighters and medics is an ongoing thing. We're constantly having to take continuing education (required by the state), and additional training classes (sometimes on our own dime) in order to remain proficient in our skills.

Dr. Know-

"Firemen have left Yarmouth (after recieving a lot of training at considerable cost) to go to other, better paying jobs"

Yes, but how many firefigthers has Yarmouth hired that had received either firefighter or paramedic (or any other kind of training)elsewhere? Don't forget to consider BOTH sides.

Trust me, firefighters don't do it for the money. If we were working for the money, we'd probably do what YOU do albert.

Which is what, by the way?

So the two sides negotiate, and both parties SIGN and AGREE to the contract. It's not just the unions getting what they want.

Trust me. The fire department is a BARGAIN. Firefighters and paramedics have so much responsibilities, so much training, and so much risk, that if we got paid according to our qualifications, we'd be loaded!! BUT, we don't ask for that. We ask for fair wages and benefits.

So tell me. How much would YOU pay to have someone save your life and property from fire?

"Otherwise explain how one guy make 45k in ot"

Let's see, 45,000 in ot, divide by 52 weeks per year = 865 extra dollars per week, divide that by (oh let's say $30 per hour OT rate) = 28 extra hours per week of overtime. Pretty sad, if you ask me, that firefighters have to spend that much extra time coming into their job just to survive here.

"Would you be willing to look at a different approach to the call back issue to help the town afford you?" Like I said, the town pays its secrataries and admin. assistants more than some of the firefighters.

"Why has the union and the town not agreed on a new contract? Rumor is the Union wants huge a pay raise wont give the town concessions to get it. Is that true?" Probably not, because you have to NEGOTIATE a contract. If it was up to just the union, We'd be getting paid 25-30 bucks an hour, working our 48 hour per week schedule. If it was up to the towns or chiefs or people like YOU, we'd be getting paid minimum wage with no benefits, without the ability to afford to live in the very town we protect.

(When I said "You talk about firefighters," I wasn't speaking directly at you, concerned, it was a generalization. Sorry if it came out snotty!!) :-)

Yes, concerned, that may be accurate.

Trust me, as a firefighter, I'd much rather see myself get paid a greater base salary and not have to have a second job. As it is now, I just started a job at a private ambulance company and make just about as much(within 4 cents) as I do after working for the fire department for 3 1/2 years. Also, where I work, the department secretary (ahem, administrative assistant) makes more per hour than some full time firefighter/emt's we have.

So when you talk about firefighters being greedy, I laugh. If I were greedy, I'd be doing something else.

The fire department responds to all their calls in a most timely fashion. And when there are no more personnel available or apparatus available, there's mutual aid, which means another town comes in to handle the emergency. And if it's EMS, that means funds go to someone else's town.

So, how many firefighters would you have on duty, how many would you staff an ambulance or engine with, and when do you want to send firefighters home when they're not needed??

No, Albert, I am not wrong. I should know, I'm a union firefighter. THe "rules" and operating procedures are formed by the administration and chief. The union contract only sets pay wages, schedule, etc. I don't think you'll find a union contract that states anything about the chief having to provide overtime. Because if there was no overtime, firefighters would just get second (or third, or fourth) jobs.

I also work for a private ambualnce company off cape. Trust me, they're all about making profit. Private companies try to gobble up contracts for nursing homes, hospitals, etc. They most likely would not come down here for 1 hospital and a handful of nursing homes. Not to mention, there's already Cape Cod Ambulance that provides service down here.

"why he cant send a guy home when he is not needed?" I tell you what, you tell me exactly when a firefighter/paramedic is needed, and I'll try not to laugh at that last statement. Again, you can't compare PD to FD. The police prioritize and stack their calls, therefore, they can much better manage their ot budget.

Yes, Concerned, EMTs and Medics have state and local protocols that they have to follow. We have certifications and work under the license of our regional medical director. What does that have to do with anything? I think I missed something.

Oh, and private companies cost $$$. Not to mention, I doubt AMR or any other private service will come down here. I don't think they'd profit well from it.

And it's not a union issue. THe union doesn't set the rules of the fire department, the administration does. So if the chief or the town decides not to have callback, then usually they won't. However, CONCERNED, when the s*** hits the fan and your house is burning, or you're having some sort of medical emergency, you'll be the one suing the town/department as to why the fire department didn't respond fast enough.

You can't compare PD and FD overtime. When the police receive calls, they prioritize and stack them, so the lesser priority calls will not get answered until the higher priority calls are mitigated. In other words, they'll get to you when they get to you. The fire department, however, answers calls and responds to them as soon as they're received. THEREFORE, when personnel respond to one call, there needs to be more personnel to answer the next one in a timely fashion. The only way to fix that is to hire additional personnel that are already staffing the station, therefore eliminating the need for callback. SO, either cough up the $$$ for more personnel to staff the stations/apparatus, or deal with the $$ spent for callback/overtime.

TC, it's hard to stay civil when Crusader has to throw her 2 cents into everything.